No it was not a standard kit or tC. Lets not forget it was either drag radials, or drag tires. NO CARS ARE RUNNING DRAGS ON THE STREET. And all the people claiming to beat all of these cars on the streets, so EVEN IF a standard stage 1 on a standard tC did 12.xxx at the strip on drags. Put it on the street against these cars AND IT WILL LOOSE!!! Those drags are knocking a second off of their times!!! NOT A STANDARD TC BY ANY MEANS!!!!!!!!!
And I have to laugh at the comments of thats what it says on their site......................this is the same site that siad they would rip people off and they left town with thousands of peoples dollars!!!!
Thus is true, and according to your logic, if I had slicks 2 years ago, the car would have ran 12.6 THEN would it not? So, what makes you think it won't run that now, seeing as how you commented that...."Your car runs 13's you fail"......yeah 13's with no traction.
You are making up Double standards bro. You say people race where we can put the tC in the "win" position because it's on the streets from a roll.
Then you say you can't go to the track because you will run slicks and that's not cool. HELLO....RWD vs FWD....to make it even playing field, you put sticker tires on the FWD.
And lastly, you say it has to be on the street again, but from a dig...then you will get WRECKED as you so eloquently put it.
Let me get this straight, you will only be satisfied if it's ran from a DIG on the STREET, on Street tires, and past 127mph.....LOL...seriously.
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Man, you know this thread was started because I wanted to see if anyone had those moments when you wish you had your tC to see what it would do against car X. But damn, I guess most of you are not mature enough to have a decent conversation about racing. You get all but hurt every time I make a post about a car of a greater value, or a car with anything close to 400hp, like a Scion never has any chance of making it to that level.
Hating on your own brand that you drive....how ridiculous is that. I'm being real about it. I could see if this was some ricer with a random post and all he had was I/H/E. Guess I will just stop sharing sh!t with the hateraid crowd, and just keep the Youtube vids rolling. Hate on it all you want. But we ain't racing BS fart can Civics out here. If we race, it's against cars that mean business.
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No it was not a standard kit or tC. Lets not forget it was either drag radials, or drag tires. NO CARS ARE RUNNING DRAGS ON THE STREET. And all the people claiming to beat all of these cars on the streets, so EVEN IF a standard stage 1 on a standard tC did 12.xxx at the strip on drags. Put it on the street against these cars AND IT WILL LOOSE!!! Those drags are knocking a second off of their times!!! NOT A STANDARD TC BY ANY MEANS!!!!!!!!!
And I have to laugh at the comments of thats what it says on their site......................this is the same site that siad they would rip people off and they left town with thousands of peoples dollars!!!!
I knew someone would make that argument. Hence why I said you want to go from a dig, we do it at the track. On the street then we roll. And FYI....you go down to Jacksonville, FL, and you will find cars running slicks on the street.
Its funny you mention Jacksonville, As I am sitting there RIGHT NOW AS I TYPE THIS!!
The lack of hooked up cars here is actually pathetic. I even tried heading down to Jacksonville Beaches area and NOTHING.
Agian with the slicks, its putting parameters on it to make the tC win. Its funny how for a tC to win, it has to be the tC setting the race up and how it will work and what will happen.
And to hear you say racing past 120MPH as dumb, or however you put it, thats funny cinsidering you are the one conding street racing to begin with. Extremely funny how the speed you finally find to be to fast is just below the top speed of a tC. So to an EVO, M3 or whatever, they think 140 is just fine. (to me I think 90 is to fast to be doing on the streets racing)
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No it was not a standard kit or tC. Lets not forget it was either drag radials, or drag tires. NO CARS ARE RUNNING DRAGS ON THE STREET. And all the people claiming to beat all of these cars on the streets, so EVEN IF a standard stage 1 on a standard tC did 12.xxx at the strip on drags. Put it on the street against these cars AND IT WILL LOOSE!!! Those drags are knocking a second off of their times!!! NOT A STANDARD TC BY ANY MEANS!!!!!!!!!
And I have to laugh at the comments of thats what it says on their site......................this is the same site that siad they would rip people off and they left town with thousands of peoples dollars!!!!
Thus is true, and according to your logic, if I had slicks 2 years ago, the car would have ran 12.6 THEN would it not? So, what makes you think it won't run that now, seeing as how you commented that...."Your car runs 13's you fail"......yeah 13's with no traction.
You are making up Double standards bro. You say people race where we can put the tC in the "win" position because it's on the streets from a roll.
Then you say you can't go to the track because you will run slicks and that's not cool. HELLO....RWD vs FWD....to make it even playing field, you put sticker tires on the FWD.
And lastly, you say it has to be on the street again, but from a dig...then you will get WRECKED as you so eloquently put it.
Let me get this straight, you will only be satisfied if it's ran from a DIG on the STREET, on Street tires, and past 127mph.....LOL...seriously.
But as you stated, YOU ARENT ON A STANDARD STAGE 1!!! And thats what my comments were pointed at when I stated the times on drag radials. I NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER stated you are or arent capable of 12s on drags.
As far as my comments of on the street when the tC is put in a position to win and then about the track or whatever. A CAR IS NOT REQUIRED TO GO TO A TRACK ON SLICKS!!! So where do my statements say anything about the race having to be on the streets to be legit. You can and are legally alowed to run at the track without slicks. People do it EVERY SINGLE DAY. But you find (and I read it everywhere) that you only want to go to the track with slicks, WHY? Why not bring what your car runs everyday? Maybe because you realize that your car AS IS (not with all your other stipulations, with a tune will hit 350WHP, with slicks will hit 12s, yadda yadda). I have no qualms with what your car can do, other than your retarded street racing, I dont really care either way. I just hate how you always talk how it could be and will be and if it was like this or if it was like that.
Talk about what it is. Talk about how it is, not what it could be if you had a tune and some traction. You dont have traction and that is the unfortunate nature of the tC. And unless you totally change it up (slicks at a track) the tC cannot beat the car in a common drag race. And it cannot beat a car on the high end. All it can do is beat a car in the midrange from a roll with the conditions just right. THAT IS MY ONLY POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!
And the point being the kids that come in here, oh a tC is faster than an EVO yadda yadda. NO IT ISNT. EXCEPT FOR IN THE PERFECT CIRCUMSTANCE. A street race from a roll, from a set speed up to a set speed. THAT IS NOT RACING OR HOW CARS ARE COMMONLY COMPARED!!! That is a set of parameters to give the tC the edge for a single circumstance win.
Again refer to how i can beat up Mike Tyson for a good analogy!!!
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NO WHERE DID I EVER SAY IT HAS TO BE ON A STREET ON STRET TIRES PAST 127MPH!!! Please show me where I stated that?
And please show me where I said you cant go to the drag strip because you will have slicks. Please show me.
I want to see a STREET DRIVEN car on the track against these cars you think you can rape!!! That would include no drag radials because they are not commonly ran on the street. yeah I am sure dumbasses have done it, but you know as well as I do it is not very common. YOU DONT DO IT WHEN YOU DRIVE DAILY.
Run what you brung type of thing.
Now quit putting words in my mouth. I never knocked you or disrespected you or made you say something you didnt. I simply stated why I think its all rediculous!!!
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Man, you know this thread was started because I wanted to see if anyone had those moments when you wish you had your tC to see what it would do against car X. But damn, I guess most of you are not mature enough to have a decent conversation about racing. You get all but hurt every time I make a post about a car of a greater value, or a car with anything close to 400hp, like a Scion never has any chance of making it to that level.
Hating on your own brand that you drive....how ridiculous is that. I'm being real about it. I could see if this was some ricer with a random post and all he had was I/H/E. Guess I will just stop sharing sh!t with the hateraid crowd, and just keep the Youtube vids rolling. Hate on it all you want. But we ain't racing BS fart can Civics out here. If we race, it's against cars that mean business.
well said brother!
u gotta understand that most of peeps here that disagree bout the tC's potential dont have good setups including boost, etc.
this kid in my school always tried to embarrass me in front of people that I got a rice mobile n sh!t like that till the day I proposed a race afterschool. (he had an STI with intake and exaust). the dude got humiliated sooo bad that he didn't come to school the next day- and as u may have guessed it- the trash taking stopped for good!!
its just natural for people to not believe something when they haven't personally experienced it.
Man, you know this thread was started because I wanted to see if anyone had those moments when you wish you had your tC to see what it would do against car X. But damn, I guess most of you are not mature enough to have a decent conversation about racing. You get all but hurt every time I make a post about a car of a greater value, or a car with anything close to 400hp, like a Scion never has any chance of making it to that level.
Hating on your own brand that you drive....how ridiculous is that. I'm being real about it. I could see if this was some ricer with a random post and all he had was I/H/E. Guess I will just stop sharing sh!t with the hateraid crowd, and just keep the Youtube vids rolling. Hate on it all you want. But we ain't racing BS fart can Civics out here. If we race, it's against cars that mean business.
You wanna talk maturity levels as you constantly go out and break the law to a very very high degree??
Why is it hating when the opinion is opposite of yours? Why is your opinion allowed but others is automatic hating when it is opposite of yours?
You post here just like others do, if you wanted a world with no contesting what is said, why are you so wanting to prove yourself with your street racing and posting it here to prove what you can do? Opposing opinions drive what you do. That is why you race, for the challange. But its funny that you cant view the opposite opinion as anything other than hating. No one is bashing you, we (or me) is just stating how we feel about it.
I am not knocking our brand I am just getting realistic, you make your (and others) turboed tCs out to be the bestest, badest fastest cars on the road. I am stating that you are correct, when the mood is right, when the parameters are set to your advantage.
Can you deny that? Can you deny that the tC will only (other than a few rare occasions) win when the parameters are set to the 40mph role to 110 mph?
But any other range the tC will lose? Are you saying that I am wrong about that?
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No it was not a standard kit or tC. Lets not forget it was either drag radials, or drag tires. NO CARS ARE RUNNING DRAGS ON THE STREET. And all the people claiming to beat all of these cars on the streets, so EVEN IF a standard stage 1 on a standard tC did 12.xxx at the strip on drags. Put it on the street against these cars AND IT WILL LOOSE!!! Those drags are knocking a second off of their times!!! NOT A STANDARD TC BY ANY MEANS!!!!!!!!!
And I have to laugh at the comments of thats what it says on their site......................this is the same site that siad they would rip people off and they left town with thousands of peoples dollars!!!!
I knew someone would make that argument. Hence why I said you want to go from a dig, we do it at the track. On the street then we roll. And FYI....you go down to Jacksonville, FL, and you will find cars running slicks on the street.
Its funny you mention Jacksonville, As I am sitting there RIGHT NOW AS I TYPE THIS!!
The lack of hooked up cars here is actually pathetic. I even tried heading down to Jacksonville Beaches area and NOTHING.
Agian with the slicks, its putting parameters on it to make the tC win. Its funny how for a tC to win, it has to be the tC setting the race up and how it will work and what will happen.
And to hear you say racing past 120MPH as dumb, or however you put it, thats funny cinsidering you are the one conding street racing to begin with. Extremely funny how the speed you finally find to be to fast is just below the top speed of a tC. So to an EVO, M3 or whatever, they think 140 is just fine. (to me I think 90 is to fast to be doing on the streets racing)
You should get out more then:
These dudes are on Streetfire.net, like I'm on Youtube.com
They are on there so much that I want to get down there to run with them. MyWS6 and JaxFLH22.
You ever heard of the term...."Run what you brung?" Stop with the whole BS about this and that, and this and that...helping the tC win. If you don't got the gear.....Back OFF the line...eof. Don't sit there and whine about the other guy having slicks. Go get some slicks and come back and try again. Go Big or Go Home.
PS...who condones Street racing? Just because 90% of everyone that is in the scene around me does it, does not mean I condone it. We all know it's dangerous. I'm pretty sure that if there was a 24/7 track or closed off street made for that purpose, that is where 100% of all enthusiast would be. But we know that does not exist. 120mph has nothing to do with the top speed of the tC. It's all about the common cuttoff point here. And Here, it's 120 or lower. The only guys going past that, have like 600+whp Twin turbos.
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u gotta understand that most of peeps here that disagree bout the tC's potential dont have good setups including boost, etc.
its just natural for people to not believe something when they haven't personally experienced it.
Now this is freaking hilarious!! You are obviously talking at me since I am the only one talking about it.
Have you not seen my car? While I never claim it to be fast and I dont street race and I am not one to brag about what I have, have you not seen my car?? Yup it was boosted as well and had the show to back it all up.
I have driven tCs with every turbo kit there is (other than Turbo Toyotas)!!! I have personally experienced it. OH and GUESS WHAT?? I raced my car in more than a straight line from 40-110mph. Just because I am not out there street racing doesnt mean I dont know how to race. I would bet I have more racing experience than 95% of those on this site, considering only a handful on here have ever autocrossed, done track days or been to the track. And yes I do all 3!!I have alot of personal experience:
Quote:
its just natural for people to not believe something when they haven't personally experienced it.
Like I said before, dont talk about something you know nothing about.
(I say mine but I sold it last week)
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i think that people get frustrated with you travis, because you say that your car is capable of doing things that you have yet to prove. you say that your car is able to run 12's, when you've been to the track many many times, and come up short every time. and you talk about all these roll races, (that you never lose), with 450+whp cars that you never have any proof of.
now am i saying that you'll never accomplish these goals? no. but until you do, you shouldnt act like you're on that level.
No it was not a standard kit or tC. Lets not forget it was either drag radials, or drag tires. NO CARS ARE RUNNING DRAGS ON THE STREET. And all the people claiming to beat all of these cars on the streets, so EVEN IF a standard stage 1 on a standard tC did 12.xxx at the strip on drags. Put it on the street against these cars AND IT WILL LOOSE!!! Those drags are knocking a second off of their times!!! NOT A STANDARD TC BY ANY MEANS!!!!!!!!!
And I have to laugh at the comments of thats what it says on their site......................this is the same site that siad they would rip people off and they left town with thousands of peoples dollars!!!!
Thus is true, and according to your logic, if I had slicks 2 years ago, the car would have ran 12.6 THEN would it not? So, what makes you think it won't run that now, seeing as how you commented that...."Your car runs 13's you fail"......yeah 13's with no traction.
You are making up Double standards bro. You say people race where we can put the tC in the "win" position because it's on the streets from a roll.
Then you say you can't go to the track because you will run slicks and that's not cool. HELLO....RWD vs FWD....to make it even playing field, you put sticker tires on the FWD.
And lastly, you say it has to be on the street again, but from a dig...then you will get WRECKED as you so eloquently put it.
Let me get this straight, you will only be satisfied if it's ran from a DIG on the STREET, on Street tires, and past 127mph.....LOL...seriously.
But as you stated, YOU ARENT ON A STANDARD STAGE 1!!! And thats what my comments were pointed at when I stated the times on drag radials. I NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER stated you are or arent capable of 12s on drags.
As far as my comments of on the street when the tC is put in a position to win and then about the track or whatever. A CAR IS NOT REQUIRED TO GO TO A TRACK ON SLICKS!!! So where do my statements say anything about the race having to be on the streets to be legit. You can and are legally alowed to run at the track without slicks. People do it EVERY SINGLE DAY. But you find (and I read it everywhere) that you only want to go to the track with slicks, WHY? Why not bring what your car runs everyday? Maybe because you realize that your car AS IS (not with all your other stipulations, with a tune will hit 350WHP, with slicks will hit 12s, yadda yadda). I have no qualms with what your car can do, other than your retarded street racing, I dont really care either way. I just hate how you always talk how it could be and will be and if it was like this or if it was like that.
Talk about what it is. Talk about how it is, not what it could be if you had a tune and some traction. You dont have traction and that is the unfortunate nature of the tC. And unless you totally change it up (slicks at a track) the tC cannot beat the car in a common drag race. And it cannot beat a car on the high end. All it can do is beat a car in the midrange from a roll with the conditions just right. THAT IS MY ONLY POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!
And the point being the kids that come in here, oh a tC is faster than an EVO yadda yadda. NO IT ISNT. EXCEPT FOR IN THE PERFECT CIRCUMSTANCE. A street race from a roll, from a set speed up to a set speed. THAT IS NOT RACING OR HOW CARS ARE COMMONLY COMPARED!!! That is a set of parameters to give the tC the edge for a single circumstance win.
Again refer to how i can beat up Mike Tyson for a good analogy!!!
Here, let me make this clear. If I'm going to the track, I want to make the best of it next time around. I.E....On Slicks, and Tuned. On the street, it's from a roll. You have your own preferences, I have mine. If you don't like them, hey, nothing I can do about that. But I'm not going to change them, just because you think it puts the tC in a favorable position to win. I don't make these people race under my circumstances you know. 99.9999999% of the time I have EVER raced, it was to Answer a challenge, not deliver one. I don't challenge people. People call me, and the other turbo tC's in my crew...out. And 99.9999999% of the time, it's from a roll. If they asked for a Dig race, I wouldn't turn them down...contrary to popular belief. I've been there and done that with a modded WRX. He got the jump, I reeled him in and passed him at about 90mph (factory scion tires).
If I rolled around on DOT approved Race tires, your whole argument would be thrown out the door. But those are expensive to just drive on daily. Going to the track is about Optimization. I have made passes at a time the car wasn't even close to being optimized....and look at what I get. Then I say I'll go on slicks....and I still get questioned....LOL. Take it or leave it.
Your comments would also be void against tCs that have the factory speed limiter removed. I don't have that YET. Why are you even making this point anyway?
You turned something so simple as...."I wanted to see what the tC would have done with the M3"....to....."Well you can only win in times where you are in Mid-range, doing back flips, pressing the hyper warp button, in deep space 9"....bro, it's just a race.
FYI.....at 100mph is when I consider you to be in "Top End".
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u gotta understand that most of peeps here that disagree bout the tC's potential dont have good setups including boost, etc.
its just natural for people to not believe something when they haven't personally experienced it.
Now this is freaking hilarious!! You are obviously talking at me since I am the only one talking about it.
Have you not seen my car? While I never claim it to be fast and I dont street race and I am not one to brag about what I have, have you not seen my car?? Yup it was boosted as well and had the show to back it all up.
I have driven tCs with every turbo kit there is (other than Turbo Toyotas)!!! I have personally experienced it. OH and GUESS WHAT?? I raced my car in more than a straight line from 40-110mph. Just because I am not out there street racing doesnt mean I dont know how to race. I would bet I have more racing experience than 95% of those on this site, considering only a handful on here have ever autocrossed, done track days or been to the track. And yes I do all 3!!I have alot of personal experience:
Quote:
its just natural for people to not believe something when they haven't personally experienced it.
Like I said before, dont talk about something you know nothing about.
(I say mine but I sold it last week)
It's funny cuz I was NOT talking about you. I actually like your tC very much.
Nor am i disagreeing that u have more experience than me. seriously... no need to get worked up. I am sure u drive better than me and that you race more than me and that your not immature like me to race on the street and that you've tested every turbo for the tC...
im just sayin 80% people here are so ignorant that they just have negative feedback about the turbo tC.
hahaa rofl ^^ brett i may be coming to get that emanage this weekend.. should i just get a diff harness or is ur wiring straight.. i dont want things to get f'd up
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i think that people get frustrated with you travis, because you say that your car is capable of doing things that you have yet to prove. you say that your car is able to run 12's, when you've been to the track many many times, and come up short every time. and you talk about all these roll races, (that you never lose), with 450+whp cars that you never have any proof of.
now am i saying that you'll never accomplish these goals? no. but until you do, you shouldnt act like you're on that level.
bigger HP doesn't mean Better No.s
I maintained a lead on a charger srt-8. the dude said he had 500HP and 500 TQ.
lets say that he was BS-ing, even a regular srt-8 charger is 425HP.
thats almost 115hp More than mine... I still took it!
numbers mean nothing- all that it boils down to is 1/4 mi. no.s and acceleration W/O the help of launch control.
and people dont have video cameras ready to film any race they do... so its really hard to give video proof of a race that is not planned.
besides Rhythm has a lot of videos online but ever look at their coments-
"BS"
"Whatever that dude wasn't WOT"
"oh but give him nos and he'll kill you"
"no way that seeon Tc will take that"
im just sayin 80% people here are so ignorant that they just have negative feedback about the turbo tC.
thats it, you figured us out. we all hate the tc here. and we spend all day thinking about how to badmouth a turbo tc's performance.
...gimmie a break.
dude just look at this thread from the first page... look at all the negative comments.
and yea a LOT of people DO Hate on this site. just do a lil test on ur own.
post a new topic that says "ME vs. C6 corvette" and post that you raced and won (which is actually possible) and see all the "this is BS..." replies you get.
but try to ask a honest question about a problem that you are having and compare the no. of views to the no. of replies.
almost no one here is truly doin what this site was made for... to help fellow scion owners and enthusiasts.
Man, you know this thread was started because I wanted to see if anyone had those moments when you wish you had your tC to see what it would do against car X. But damn, I guess most of you are not mature enough to have a decent conversation about racing. You get all but hurt every time I make a post about a car of a greater value, or a car with anything close to 400hp, like a Scion never has any chance of making it to that level.
Hating on your own brand that you drive....how ridiculous is that. I'm being real about it. I could see if this was some ricer with a random post and all he had was I/H/E. Guess I will just stop sharing sh!t with the hateraid crowd, and just keep the Youtube vids rolling. Hate on it all you want. But we ain't racing BS fart can Civics out here. If we race, it's against cars that mean business.
You wanna talk maturity levels as you constantly go out and break the law to a very very high degree??
So...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick06tC
Why is it hating when the opinion is opposite of yours? Why is your opinion allowed but others is automatic hating when it is opposite of yours?
You post here just like others do, if you wanted a world with no contesting what is said, why are you so wanting to prove yourself with your street racing and posting it here to prove what you can do? Opposing opinions drive what you do. That is why you race, for the challange. But its funny that you cant view the opposite opinion as anything other than hating. No one is bashing you, we (or me) is just stating how we feel about it.
Saying that I would get WRECKED is beyond a mere opinion in...my opinion...lol. I don't have to prove anything. It's entertainment. You enjoy entertainment don't you? I like racing, most of my crew likes racing....we race. But why race against crappy cars. We don't. Not in my opinion anyway. Opposing opinions do drive me though. Telling me I got a 2door Camry, telling me I can't beat such and such, telling me it can't run this or that.....I go do it to find out. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. If I'm right....I pretty much tell them to STFU.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick06tC
I am not knocking our brand I am just getting realistic, you make your (and others) turboed tCs out to be the bestest, badest fastest cars on the road. I am stating that you are correct, when the mood is right, when the parameters are set to your advantage.
I don't make the turbo tC's out to be anything. I don't go around saying turbo tC's are the baddest fastest cars on the road. I do things to see how it would do. I put it up against stuff most people say it shouldn't be up against, or have no business being up against. I don't make challenges, we get challenged. Then OTHER people say....dude that's badarse, or say it's quick. We don't say that we are quick. Other people do. And the ones that don't are the ones that talk sh!t about Scion's in general, and then we line them up.....and Later they Say that's badarse....LOL. I know what I CAN do in MY car, so I would expect others to be able to do the same. I only call it based on my own experience. If they can't do it, nothing I can do about that. I'm not a good driver. I would think that I'm just average, but I try real hard....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick06tC
Can you deny that? Can you deny that the tC will only (other than a few rare occasions) win when the parameters are set to the 40mph role to 110 mph?
But any other range the tC will lose? Are you saying that I am wrong about that?
Again, I don't "SET" the parameters, so you are incorrect. If I was saying...Ok, I only race with such and such at such and such speed, and that is all I will race, then you have a point about setting it up to my advantage. But I don't, so your point does not apply to me. As for the whole mph cut off part again, 120mph again, is 99.9% of the time the cuttoff. It's lower than that if you are out like 2 - 3 cars before even getting to that point. So, why even run faster than that? If an Evo's top speed is 140mph, and I have 127mph, and I'm out like 3 cars by 115, hypothetically speaking...why do I need to go any faster?
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i think that people get frustrated with you travis, because you say that your car is capable of doing things that you have yet to prove. you say that your car is able to run 12's, when you've been to the track many many times, and come up short every time. and you talk about all these roll races, (that you never lose), with 450+whp cars that you never have any proof of.
now am i saying that you'll never accomplish these goals? no. but until you do, you shouldnt act like you're on that level.
Went to the 1/4 mile track ONE time, not sure where you get the "many many" times from. Been to the 1/8th mile track many many times, but not to run. On crappy tires, tune, still hit 12sec trap speeds, so why is it worlds apart to think that with slicks it would be 12's? After the tune, 12's would be lazy footing it out of the hole. I just bought a town house, so tune will come in another month or two. Slicks will have to follow after that.
I'm ON that level. I have countless vids of cars racing, just because I don't get a race on vid (spontaneous races that is), does not make me a liar. If it's been done, it's been done.
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