ScionLife.com

Thorium06 · 07-02-2009, 09:02 PM

Im am experiencing an uncommon problem. For whatever reason my scion will not react to a tune. I am running the TRD supercharger kit, but my ecu is stock and not flashed. I also have RC 550cc injectors.

I started of trying to tune it with a greddy emanage blue piggyback. It was hard wired in with the main harness and the injector harness. When trying to tune, it seemed like the emanage only had control below 3700 rpms. Above that, the car spikes lean. We quickly blamed the box as being bad, so we tested it with one in the shop that was known to work. However even with maxing out the fuel capabilities of the emanage, the same lean problem persisted. COnfident the problem lay with the abilities of the emanage blue, i went ahead and ordered the new plug and pla version of the fic.

Fic was installed, including the resister mod. Same problem leaning out before 4000rpms. The shopped called up another guy who had success with a turbonetics kit and an fic in which he now tunes himself. The shop has done at least six turbo tcs running an fic. He looked at the maps and said there was no way it should be short of fuel in the upper power band. I swapped fics and his maf, and still the same problem.

Stumped we preceded to swap the fuel pump for a walbro 255 unit. Same problem. We also did a run with no piggyback, just the stock ecu, and it still leaned out at the top. Personally, I believe the fuel system is overkill for the setup i am running. It should be pig rich, but still leans out even under a couple pounds of boost. By the way no codes are thrown either.

Now im going to try and swap o2 sensors and hope thats the issue. It was also suggested to me to have the dealer run a diagnostic on the main ecu and make sure everything is in check. Im at a loss, cause this car has run flawlessly for over two years now, but it just will not have any reaction to a tune. Any help is greatly appreciated.

imsonofagun · 07-02-2009, 10:00 PM

Several people have issues with leaning out a little in the upper RPM range when running with boost. It sounds like you have a more serious issue than what most experience though.

You may need to go with a fuel return setup. I know Ptuning is working on a setup with a surge tank/swirl pot.

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=251180
http://www.hopupracing.com/poslposlplbi.html
http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=250732

SoFloTC · 07-02-2009, 10:12 PM

nah his fuel system is usually PLENTY for what hes running, most ppl with s/c are using like 440 cc injectors and not even running fuel pump.... theres something else going on here, id get ur injectors checked out maybe there not flowing properly or something, im kinda lost here buddy, cant think of reasons why u would lean out, unless ur tuners are just terrible..

m6ar2cel6oTC · 07-02-2009, 10:16 PM

it has to be your tuners. there is no way you lean out if they put the correct amount of fuel in. i used to be supecharged and i had 550cc and running 12psi pulley and never had a problem except for timing thats the only i used to have. once you found the right tuner you will be good.

thendawg · 07-02-2009, 11:17 PM

SOmething is def off here - send me your map so i can look at it - pm me for my email address

Thorium06 · 07-02-2009, 11:44 PM

I really do not think that it is the tuners at fault here. They have lots of experience with fics and other systems as well, and this is something very strange.

Even though many say to stay away from the trd tune, i may go ahead and get it done tomorrow and see if that helps anything at all.

m6ar2cel6oTC · 07-03-2009, 12:09 AM

no!!! don't get it!!! the trd is a timing killer! lol it robs massive amounts of timing when it sees a lot of boost trust me i had it and it sucked!!! it would take like 27 and up degrees at timing it was crazy! just find a good tuner that tunes with greddy. a certified one at that!

Thorium06 · 07-03-2009, 12:53 AM

so i just pulled my primary o2 sensor and it is dark black on one side and bright white on the other. not sure if this is bad, but im going to try and get a friend of mine over here and test with his.

yeah i heard the trd tune is really crappy, but i really just want to get this thing running as its been limping for a month now. The trd seems like the next logical move.

OuterHeaven · 07-03-2009, 01:21 AM

Can you get any logs?? I would be looking at everything including a bad stock ECU at this point. Maybe the ECU is not getting the correct MAF signal above 4k RPM?? Something is making you spike lean. Also did you check to make sure there is no boost or vacuum leaks??

Thorium06 · 07-03-2009, 01:32 AM

i have checked multiple times for leaks and have found none sadly. I have pretty much narrowed it down to either bad o2 sensors or stock ecu. Any ideas on how to test the stock ecu? If there was a bad program on it i was banking on the trd flash to overwrite it.

as far as logs go, ill try and figure that out tonight and see if i can post them up

skakemokid · 07-03-2009, 04:25 AM

for some reason i rememeber reading that some dude was having a hard time tuning his emanage with the trd flash. . i dont remember the link but i remember reading it.

CarbonXe · 07-03-2009, 04:43 AM

Go back to the stock pump. I don't know why anyone bothers changing the pump if they're not targetting the 375+WHP range.
You also don't need 550cc injectors, 440 is plenty for the S/C, but that won't do anything in terms of lean/rich, assuming the car is tuned properly.

If the O2 sensor is messed up, it can cause tons of problems. If one side of the O2 sensor is bright white, it's because your car has been running way too lean. Try out another O2 sensor and see if that does anything.

Syldrin · 07-03-2009, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarbonXe

Go back to the stock pump. I don't know why anyone bothers changing the pump if they're not targetting the 375+WHP range.
You also don't need 550cc injectors, 440 is plenty for the S/C, but that won't do anything in terms of lean/rich, assuming the car is tuned properly.

If the O2 sensor is messed up, it can cause tons of problems. If one side of the O2 sensor is bright white, it's because your car has been running way too lean. Try out another O2 sensor and see if that does anything.

because when you run 700cc injectors it wont maintain enough pressure in the fuel system, that could be a reason but i probably dont know that now do i ~.^

CarbonXe · 07-03-2009, 06:19 AM

He's not on 700cc injectors, he's on 550cc. 550cc injectors are more than enough to supply enough fuel for a safe AFR in the low-mid 300's.

**draxcaliber** · 07-03-2009, 06:26 AM

i personally don't get it...looking at your profile, all you list is the supercharger kit, and a 9.5 psi pulley, which the stock trd reflash can easily handle. why are you going through all this trouble for next to nothing?

if you're just running the 9.5 psi pulley, just get the reflash, and do alittle tuning after that for some extra whp.

unless your using a smaller pulley for more than 9.5 psi, which i don't see mentioned in this set up of yours.

so just get the reflash and then tune. and your tc will run fine.

Thorium06 · 07-03-2009, 07:37 AM

originally i had bought the kit used and i already had an emanage blue, thats where this story started. Also i didnt mention, I do plan on running e85 in the near future.

I have obtained a few logs, and after tons of help from thendawg over the phone, i believe the problem lies with the injectors and not the 02 sensors. Once i round up the old clips im going to try some trds and see how that works. Thanks for all the help

Thorium06 · 07-08-2009, 02:59 AM

alright so i pulled apart the fuel injectors/rail assembly and noticed one of the injectors was wired backwards! lets just say that will be the first and last time i let a shop do something. So i ordered some new rc clips and redid the wiring and made sure it was all good.

However it seems to be my luck that ill fix something only to overturn another problem... Now the car wont start. The starter works, but it wont crank. Tried it with and without the FIC and no luck. Pulled the plugs and there was no sign of fuel in the engine. next i pulled the rail of again, and there is for sure fuel pressure in the rail, so i assume the injectors are not firing. Whats the deal? can i seriously have this bad of luck? The connections are good, and i checked all the fuses. By the way the resistance on the injectors is about 13ohms on all of them, and i was told by rc that they should be about 12. Any ideas?

Tc4Eva · 07-08-2009, 03:26 AM

I dont know if this would affect anything, but is there a possibility that the main harness was damaged when the Greddy unit was hard wired, instead of the use of a PnP harness? For some reason I get the feeling that when the hard wire was attempted something was messed up. But I could be very wrong. Hope you get your problem fixed soon.

Thorium06 · 07-08-2009, 03:32 AM

I dont think so, cause the greddy has been removed about a month ago, and i patched the harness myself. It started and drove up until i took the injectors out a couple days ago. Plus the emanage only needed one wire to be cut, and the rest were just tapped.

cburglb34 · 07-09-2009, 01:32 PM

btw driving the supercharger on stock tune is sooo bad even if trying to baby it...read up....we have had atleast 10 blown engines on thsi forum from guys driving 20 miles to their delalership for a tune and they baby their car...BOOM and u went along and did a pull on a 9.5 psi and no tune...asking for a costly pop