Contemplating Sound System

[NickF127]

Ok, I'm contemplating a complete overhaul of my sound system, thought I'd run it by everyone for their opinions. I am going to stick with the factory HU for now, it's actually fairly decent. I do already have some subs I'm going to throw in the back for now, but by the time I'm done I'd hope to phase them out in favor of 8" low profile subs in the front door. Not sure though might keep both? Current sub setup in my basement, going to install soonish: 2 Alpine Type R 10" wired to 4 ohm, Rockford Fosgate T500bD, Raptor 2 Farad cap, RE Audio bass processor Rear speakers next, because the stock ones suck: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...er-T1S652.html Now front speakers and amp will be the fun part because the midrange makes my life a PITA. I'm planning on picking up an amp to power the back speakers, as well as midrange and tweeter up front. This will match my current amp so I think it's a good idea: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...Black-Box.html I plan on hooking up both coaxial speakers and external tweeters, to keep up with the massive amounts of bass I'd plan on having.. Thinking: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...ower-T142.html and http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...ate-T2T-S.html Finally I'd hope to fab up a mount for an 8inch sub in the door. I suppose this will be a challenge..but I figure it's worth some effort. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=295-132 I figure I can wire a couple of these to 4 ohms. I can hook them up to my current t500bD and turn the gain down or I could keep the subs in the back and pick up a smaller p300 http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...ch-P300-1.html But with 3 amps I'm going to blow up my alternator...and taking up my entire trunk with subs isn't a desirable long term solution to my bass hunger, so I think hooking it up to my t500bD would be a better solution. I'm just afraid i wont be able to make a feasible mount for an 8 inch sub, and I'm afriad of how ____ty the door panel is secured. I'm going to need a ton of dynomat.

[jtk2]

i just have 2 10" rockford subs in enclosed box with polk 300 watt amp. (basic setup) and if i turn the bass all the way up..it hurts my hears. and thats with the windows rolled down!

[emrules2001]

http://www.woofersetc.com/p-7471-cmx...nt-system.aspx

[Rotz]

At 4ohms you're only pulling 250 watts from that Fosgate amp. A 2 farad cap. is kinda unnecessary. The front door 6x9s are on a factory amp, so you really only have to worry about amping the rear 6.5s and front components.

[NickF127]

Originally Posted by Rotz

At 4ohms you're only pulling 250 watts from that Fosgate amp. A 2 farad cap. is kinda unnecessary. The front door 6x9s are on a factory amp, so you really only have to worry about amping the rear 6.5s and front components.

At 4 ohms the birth sheet says I'm drawing 350 watts, the T series amps are generally underrated, the cap was there because my 3rd gen 4runners had 70 amp alternators so I did need it, with all my ____ that was in there lol. Was padding before I had to rewind the alternator.

You dont think it would be a good idea to fab a mount for 8" subs in place of the 6x9s..and power them with a more powerful amp? I'm just thinking trunk space. Also, where is the factory "100w" amp located? I'm interested in its construction. Do you know what the OHM rating is of the 6x9s? I'm just trying to picture the setup in my mind, it's been raining here for 8 days and its supposed to rain all week and I have no garage..

[Rotz]

The factory amp is only 100w? (Its under the driver seat) Damn I thought it was more than that. 6x9s and 8" have the same surface area so the better speaker will be which ever has the better specs.

[NickF127]

Originally Posted by Rotz

The factory amp is only 100w? (Its under the driver seat) Damn I thought it was more than that. 6x9s and 8" have the same surface area so the better speaker will be which ever has the better specs.

Oh nice..easy to get at then!
It's difficult to find decent 6x9 that is not a Coaxial with a tweeter. Although that is unimportant in the grand scheme of things because the tweeter on coaxials is filtered, the fact that a tweeter is there does not promote Xmax, which is sometimes important.

EDIT: The whole system is supposedly on a 300 watt amplifier--I might have just lied to you I'm sorry

[Rotz]

Ok I just did some digging around, and from what I've found it looks like the base model Pioneer head unit is 160 watts and the amp is 140 watts for a system total of 300. As I understand it, the amp only runs the front door 6x9s. Now we just have to find out what ohm that amp is running/stable at.

[Magnetic_Grey]

I can give you a hand if you need help figuring out how to get the doors off.

I did a whole bunch of sound deadening the other weekend, and I'm contemplating doing a write-up, but don't know how much time I want to invest doing one.

PM me if you looking for details on removing the door panels and the rear speaker panel.

[NickF127]

Magnetic Grey, any info ypu have would be wonderful. Though I'd rather you spend a few minutes posting any info here so its public. If you have time that is. Share is caring1!

[goose_119]

just throwing this out there. a deck does not put out 160 watts continuos. that amp most likely isnt gonna put out 140 continuous. im sure they are rating these as max.

just like aftermarket radios. they will say 200 watts max power!!!! 50x4!!!!! but then itll say 15watts continuous.

they just advertise the big numbers cuz they look better

[Magnetic_Grey]

Ok so I'll try to post a few pictures once I get them off my phone but I should be able to walk you through taking the doors off pretty easily.

Tools:

-flathead screwdriver
-phillips screwdriver
-extra set of hands or something to support door panel while disconnecting connectors

1. Start with pulling off the small black triangular panel near the side view mirror. You don't need access behind it, but it will make it easier getting the door panel off and back on.

2. Next, all you need to do is remove three (3) screws, and the rest of the panel just pulls off snap clips.

3. Two screws anchor the door grab/handle. To get access to them, you'll need a flat head screwdriver. There is a small "pry-slot" at the bottom of the handle to insert the flat-head, and pry off the front silver panel. It can be stubborn.

4. The other screw is located under the small cover behind the door pull lever. The cover should pry off quite easily if you can manage to slide in behind it. Remove small screw centrally located behind small panel.

5. With the three screws removed you should be able to start at any corner and pull the door panel away from the door. Just don't go crazy pulling off this panel as you still have three (3) electrical connectors attached in behind.

6. For this next step, grab something to support the panel or someone-willing-to-stand-for-a-couple a-minutes-while-you-fiddle. Slide the (newly free) door pull/handle through the door panel to get it out of the way. Get in behind the panel and disconnect the tweeter (top speaker). There is a little tab on the connect you need to depress in order to pull the connector off. The left door will have one more connector located near the switches to disconnect in a similar matter, but I found was a lot more stubborn. (The right door will have an extra connector).

7. Door Panel Free! You should now be starring at vapor barrier. (which I proceeded to remove and add on sound deadener, then place the vapor barrier back on for the hell of it.)

[GQQSE13]

Originally Posted by Rotz

At 4ohms you're only pulling 250 watts from that Fosgate amp. A 2 farad cap. is kinda unnecessary. The front door 6x9s are on a factory amp, so you really only have to worry about amping the rear 6.5s and front components.

yea cap is unnecessary unless you're running at least 1000 watts. believe me i've beat the hell out of the factory battery on mytc w/ large steros and just now recently swapped it just to upgrade the battery and never had a need for a cap

[goose_119]

my vote is caps are completely unnecesary. theyre made to store energy and quickly release it when the vehicle needs it. they dont charge back up anywhere near as fast as they empty. if you have a heavy bass line in a song, guaranteed the cap will discharge right away and you be pulling from the car anyway.

if anything, as silly as it may sound, put a cap on your headlights if your worried about them dimming (HIDS wont dim)

[Jericho941]

I think that most of your ideas for you system upgrade are ok, but they may not give you as good results for your money/effort as others.

First, 8" subwoofers in the doors would be great, but making an enclosure that can be put inside the door would be excessively challenging. If you can find a subwoofer designed for infinite baffle/free air use, that would be optimal, but you won't ever get "massive bass" out of your doors alone, without "massive" modifications. Finding a free air sub that has around 3" or less mounting depth may be challenging. Most of the low profile subs I've seen are best suited for a sealed enclosure of varying size. I'm using an 8" marine, full-range speaker that, while being coaxial that uses an external crossover and I'm simply not using the tweeter at all. The advantage of my 8" marine speaker is that it won't be damaged by any moisure that gets in the door from rain or washing, it works well without an enclosure, and it had a shallower mounting depth than a normal 8" subwoofer.

Second, using a 4" coaxial speaker AND additional tweeters may not really be the the best solution where sound quality is concerned. Having two diferent tweeters might confuse your soundstage as different types of tweeters can sound quite different, and them being in different positions may throw off your imaging. As long as the tweeter on your coaxial speaker and the separate one sound similar or are the same model, you may have good results. I know some manufacturers sell separate tweeters that are the same as they use in components sets. Also, my system is quite a bit more powerful than the one you are planning and my two tweeters have no problems keeping up with the bass.

Third, having a bunch of amps won't nessasarily blow out your alternator. I'm running three right now. Their top rated RMS power outputs are 1350, 520, and 180. They are cea2006 compliant and I'm certain that they can do that. I've had plenty of charging system killing stereos, and haven't had any problems so far. Just don't crank your system way up while sitting at idle. At cruising rpms your alt will be alot more able to cope with the power needs. Now my amps may not be putting out quite the rated power in my car because I doubt the alternator is actually doing the 14.4 volts that the manufacturers test at, but you get the point. Just run good power and ground wires and plan on upgrading the "big 3". (alternator to battery, battery to chassis ground, and chassis ground to engine wires)

Fourth, don't worry about spending money replacing your rear speakers right now. My factory rears are being powered by the alpine mini 4 channel amp (45w rms per channel) and they sound very good to my rear seat passengers. I bet one of these amps could be adapted easily to the factory pioneer amp as you can get both the aftermarket harness adaptor AND the factory reverse harness adaptor for the pioneer radio. Unless your rear passengers are audiophiles and helping pay for the sound, don't waste your money on the rear speakers.

My system in the doors of my car is giving me VERY good sound, such that it sounds very good with the subs turned off. I'm getting good bass and mid bass from my set up, but I still need the sub (in the rear) to hit the lower notes. My 8" is crossed in bandpass style with the lpf at 50hz an the hpf at 400hz. The 4" component set is HPF at 400hz for the system and I dont know what the passive x-over point is.

I'm not saying you have to copy my set up, just remember that you want most of your sound to come from up front and a subwoofer in the trunk will likely be nessasary to acuratly hit the low notes. Subwoofer placement is also important. Rear facing subs with the box pushed to the seat or front facing subs pushed all the way to the back of the trunk are going to give the best response as the reflected sound waves wont be so out of phase with the ones that come from the speaker.

[NickF127]

Originally Posted by Jericho941

I think that most of your ideas for you system upgrade are ok, but they may not give you as good results for your money/effort as others.

First, 8" subwoofers in the doors would be great, but making an enclosure that can be put inside the door would be excessively challenging. If you can find a subwoofer designed for infinite baffle/free air use, that would be optimal, but you won't ever get "massive bass" out of your doors alone, without "massive" modifications. Finding a free air sub that has around 3" or less mounting depth may be challenging. Most of the low profile subs I've seen are best suited for a sealed enclosure of varying size. I'm using an 8" marine, full-range speaker that, while being coaxial that uses an external crossover and I'm simply not using the tweeter at all. The advantage of my 8" marine speaker is that it won't be damaged by any moisure that gets in the door from rain or washing, it works well without an enclosure, and it had a shallower mounting depth than a normal 8" subwoofer.

Second, using a 4" coaxial speaker AND additional tweeters may not really be the the best solution where sound quality is concerned. Having two diferent tweeters might confuse your soundstage as different types of tweeters can sound quite different, and them being in different positions may throw off your imaging. As long as the tweeter on your coaxial speaker and the separate one sound similar or are the same model, you may have good results. I know some manufacturers sell separate tweeters that are the same as they use in components sets. Also, my system is quite a bit more powerful than the one you are planning and my two tweeters have no problems keeping up with the bass.

Third, having a bunch of amps won't nessasarily blow out your alternator. I'm running three right now. Their top rated RMS power outputs are 1350, 520, and 180. They are cea2006 compliant and I'm certain that they can do that. I've had plenty of charging system killing stereos, and haven't had any problems so far. Just don't crank your system way up while sitting at idle. At cruising rpms your alt will be alot more able to cope with the power needs. Now my amps may not be putting out quite the rated power in my car because I doubt the alternator is actually doing the 14.4 volts that the manufacturers test at, but you get the point. Just run good power and ground wires and plan on upgrading the "big 3". (alternator to battery, battery to chassis ground, and chassis ground to engine wires)

Fourth, don't worry about spending money replacing your rear speakers right now. My factory rears are being powered by the alpine mini 4 channel amp (45w rms per channel) and they sound very good to my rear seat passengers. I bet one of these amps could be adapted easily to the factory pioneer amp as you can get both the aftermarket harness adaptor AND the factory reverse harness adaptor for the pioneer radio. Unless your rear passengers are audiophiles and helping pay for the sound, don't waste your money on the rear speakers.

My system in the doors of my car is giving me VERY good sound, such that it sounds very good with the subs turned off. I'm getting good bass and mid bass from my set up, but I still need the sub (in the rear) to hit the lower notes. My 8" is crossed in bandpass style with the lpf at 50hz an the hpf at 400hz. The 4" component set is HPF at 400hz for the system and I dont know what the passive x-over point is.

I'm not saying you have to copy my set up, just remember that you want most of your sound to come from up front and a subwoofer in the trunk will likely be nessasary to acuratly hit the low notes. Subwoofer placement is also important. Rear facing subs with the box pushed to the seat or front facing subs pushed all the way to the back of the trunk are going to give the best response as the reflected sound waves wont be so out of phase with the ones that come from the speaker.

Hey man thanks for all the advice! Seriously going to take you up on it! I have one of those mini alpine amps from my last car just hanging around.. I was going to sell it.. Do you happened to remember/have links to the information about the wiring harness?

I will take your advice about the door speakers as well

Also, just bought the wires to hook up my subs... I'm guessing the little plastic piece around the radio pops off and there are screws behind it?

[Jericho941]

Good luck, the reverse wiring harness can be found at
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...a-71-1761.html

Combine it with an aftermarket wiring harness like this
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...l-TWH-950.html

and you could cut the alpine connections off and replace them with the above on your ktp-445 for a nice, tidy, descrete boost in power.

After you pull the panel off around the radio, there are 4 screws for the bracket. It's pretty easy from there.

[NickF127]

Thanks man. Glad to hear that it's a nice simple job

Now my less aggressive approach to this is as follows:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...e-KTP-445.html
already have

Hooked up with these:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...l-TWH-950.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...1761.html#tabs

Just kinda mad I'm going to have to cut the amp

These as front speakers powered with the alpine amp
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...e-SPS-410.html
I think I'd prefer the alpines because silk tweeters are not as harsh as aluminum ones IMO

and these 6x9s
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...wer-T1692.html

powered by
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...HFi-100.2.html

Bought some Stinger 4guage and rcas from a local dealer yesterday, going to wire up my old subs this week

EDIT:
In the effort to save time and money any '87 and up harness will work with our tC? Steering wheel controls, aux and usb are all separate connections on the radio?

Amazon

Amazon

[noisy1eh]

Well with all the work you have done it nice to see that someone else has even tryed to install a system in the new TC.
We have installed Dayton RS225-4 in the lower 6x9" spot with some effort, Dayton RS100-4 in the 4" location with no problems and SEAS PRESTIGE
Reference 27TAFNC/D04 in the tweeter location also with little to no problem,and 2 Pioneer TS-SW2501S4 in custom fiberglass boxes in the rear.
A Kenwood DNX9960 head unit into a older PPI Ax606.2 for the front and the factor amp running the factory speakers for rear fill for now, and a second old PPI A600.2 for the subs.
We put 130sq feet of hush mat and man thats the best thing so far…
All that and we don't run it too hard and the lights are rock steady ….

[Jericho941]

Havent had any issues with the amp's fuse being blown. Before I got my alpine PDX amp installed I was using the KTP-445 to run all four channels and it didn't have any problems. The main thing I don't like about the stock speakers is that the tweeters never seemed to give the sharp highs that I like.