Redline?

[smokey1]

I was wondering what redline is on the tc??

[Tiberian]

9100. They wanted to beat the RX-8.

[BlueScionXB]

Originally Posted by Tiberian

9100. They wanted to beat the RX-8.

Is this true...sounds kinda high...and I didn't think it was competing with the Mazda RX-8...

[XBman]

Yeah i think that that is wrong. I think that its more around 7000 but im prob wrong

[BlueScionXB]

The only reason that a Mazda RX-8 can redline at 9100 RPM is because of the rotary engine...so it is impossible for the TC standard piston engine to achieve such a high redline...

[KAuss]

LOL, he's obviously being sarcastic hahah... BTW, the RX8 can happily rev past 12K but there is no need for that since it's way past peak power...

As for the redline on the tC... Once again, anything over 7 wouldn't be needed since it'll be way past peak power once again... I know I wouldn't wait for it to hit 7 to shift :D

[djimpak]

the redline for the tC is about 6300rpm

[Rich_Manas]

remember the 2AZ will have one thing that the current toyota performance motor won't have (2ZZ) low end torque. this motor does not need to spin past 7000rpms to generate power. in fact whenever someone gets one on the dyno i'm pretty sure power will fall off after it makes its peak power @5600rpms. sure one can argue that on the next up-shift will land higher in the powerband but again this car will make its power a lot lower than what i'm used to. on a n/a high revving motor you want to land as high as possible in the next upshift cause the 2ZZ doesn't make peak torque until it hits 6800rpms and 7600 on the horsepower. with the 2ZZ, B18C1/C5, K20A2, F20, you want to take it as close to fuel cut off, but if you were driving a f/i or big displacement motor its not neccesary.

[KAuss]

You don't want to land as high as possible.. What you want to do is land in the meat part of the torque curve... Depending on if you want to do short or long gearing... And obviously since "peak" power is at 5500, anything other than 5500 is going to drop...

Just because it peaks at 5500 don't mean that theres no advantage to going past it... If the curve is relatively flat, then having a redline all the way to 10K wouldn't be an issue... (other than the obvious engine ware...)

Just wait till people have dyno, but just be ready to make quick shifts when you buy the car...

[djimpak]

i dont think 6300rpm redline is that bad for this car. the 350z's redline is about 6600rpm. but then again, the 350z does have a bigger engine.

[Rich_Manas]

Originally Posted by KAuss

You don't want to land as high as possible.. What you want to do is land in the meat part of the torque curve... Depending on if you want to do short or long gearing... And obviously since "peak" power is at 5500, anything other than 5500 is going to drop...

Just because it peaks at 5500 don't mean that theres no advantage to going past it... If the curve is relatively flat, then having a redline all the way to 10K wouldn't be an issue... (other than the obvious engine ware...)

Just wait till people have dyno, but just be ready to make quick shifts when you buy the car...

i wasn't reffering to the tC when i said land as high as possible on the up-shift, but a celica gts. the 2ZZ and any high revving motor benefits when shifting at cutoff vs an engine like the 2AZ which probably won't.

[KAuss]

Still, "as high as possible" does not fit for any car... The correct definition of the perfect shift is "land on the meaty part of the torque curve" That means either a bit before it or RIGHT on the peak... Being as high as possible mean a car with say 8K redline, but peak torque is around 5K... If your gear is set to ____ into next gear at 6K while redlinning, you'll actually be slower compared to shifting at 7K... To meet the 5K torque power...

It's no biggie tho, but if you played enough racing games... There are other combiniations you can do to a transmission to enable you to be quick or faster top end... But idealy, no matter what you're trying to do, you want to land in the meat of the torque curve...

[Rich_Manas]

Originally Posted by KAuss

Still, "as high as possible" does not fit for any car... The correct definition of the perfect shift is "land on the meaty part of the torque curve" That means either a bit before it or RIGHT on the peak... Being as high as possible mean a car with say 8K redline, but peak torque is around 5K... If your gear is set to ____ into next gear at 6K while redlinning, you'll actually be slower compared to shifting at 7K... To meet the 5K torque power...

It's no biggie tho, but if you played enough racing games... There are other combiniations you can do to a transmission to enable you to be quick or faster top end... But idealy, no matter what you're trying to do, you want to land in the meat of the torque curve...

name me one high revving motor that revs @8k that has a peak torque at or around 5000rpms. my gts peak torque starts @6800 and if i shifted @7800 as opposed to 8400 i would land out of lift or powerband which is between 6000 to 8400rpms. even if i shift @8000 vs 8400 i still land a few rpms below peak torque. whether its the 2ZZ, B18C1/5, K20A2 or F20 you have to take it at or near cut off in a upshift to take full advantage of the motor.

that's why i said shifting at or near cutoff in a tC has no performance benefits unlike a celica gts, s2k or rsx-s.

[Silencei2]

Originally Posted by BlueScionXB

The only reason that a Mazda RX-8 can redline at 9100 RPM is because of the rotary engine...so it is impossible for the TC standard piston engine to achieve such a high redline...

I'm not trying to diss or anything but obviously you aren’t familiar with Honda and their technology involving high-rpm engines. The 00-03 Honda S2000 has a redline of 9000rpms (not to mention the ideal shift point for the S2000 is 9100 in order to keep VTEC engaged) and most of their other models including their Acura line up have high redlines for example the Integra Type R has a redline of 8400rpms and one extreme example would be the Spoon S2000 which has a 11000rpm redline... so to say that "it is impossible for the TC a standard piston engine to achieve such a high redline..." is ridiculous. Also... theoretically, a rotary engine has no redline but due to the limitation in materials and such, it is still set at 9000rpms

[KAuss]

name me one high revving motor that revs @8k that has a peak torque at or around 5000rpms.

If I had a motor with an example right off the top of my head, why would I use that as an example?

My point being, redlining a motor is NOT the fastest way to accelerate... The reason why you DON'T see 8K cars have peak power around 5K is because everyone who builds a car knows this is not useful and having a higher redline which will slow the car down will only wear it out faster...

I see what you're saying for the GTS, and I know you have to keep it in lift... But still, what you are trying to achieve is to be on the meaty part of the torque curve on the up shift and NOT be as high as you can be on the up shift by staying as close to redline or past redline....

That was my whole point...

I'm not trying to diss or anything but obviously you aren’t familiar with Honda and their technology involving high-rpm engines. The 00-03 Honda S2000 has a redline of 9000rpms (not to mention the ideal shift point for the S2000 is 9100 in order to keep VTEC engaged) and most of their other models including their Acura line up have high redlines for example the Integra Type R has a redline of 8400rpms and one extreme example would be the Spoon S2000 which has a 11000rpm redline... so to say that "it is impossible for the TC a standard piston engine to achieve such a high redline..." is ridiculous. Also... theoretically, a rotary engine has no redline but due to the limitation in materials and such, it is still set at 9000rpms

Just ask that person to name one rotary F1 car, and name a single piston F1 car that revs under 10K....

[Rich_Manas]

If I had a motor with an example right off the top of my head, why would I use that as an example?

My point being, redlining a motor is NOT the fastest way to accelerate... The reason why you DON'T see 8K cars have peak power around 5K is because everyone who builds a car knows this is not useful and having a higher redline which will slow the car down will only wear it out faster...

I see what you're saying for the GTS, and I know you have to keep it in lift... But still, what you are trying to achieve is to be on the meaty part of the torque curve on the up shift and NOT be as high as you can be on the up shift by staying as close to redline or past redline....

That was my whole point...

at least were getting close to understanding each other's point but were still not there yet. i'll give you an example from my experience. if i shift my car @7800rpms in 1st to 2nd i fall out of lift/powerband and i'll land @5700rpms. if i shift @8000rpms i still fall out of lift 5900 but i'm a lot closer to the powerband. if i take that same 1st gear and up-shift @8400 i land @6200rpms which lands me in lift/powerband, but it also brings me a lot closer to my peak torque which is 6800rpms.

when i first got my car i ran it in pomona, carlsbad, autox at qualcomm over 2 dozen times and took it to streets of willow twice. of all those track times the 1/4 mile track showed me my cars performance in the straight line the best. if i fell out of lift/powerband my times were always slower when i landed in lift on the first upshift. the higher i landed in the powerband which brought me closer to peak torque and horsepower the better my times got. when you drive a high revving car you have to take it at or near cutoff so the upshift gear lands closer to peak torque and horsepower, cause peak torque and horsepower is not going to be @4000 or 5000rpms but over 6k and 7000rpms. why do you think silencei2 wrote this about the s2k.

The 00-03 Honda S2000 has a redline of 9000rpms (not to mention the ideal shift point for the S2000 is 9100 in order to keep VTEC engaged)

you don't have to shift the s2k @9100 to stay above 6000rpms which is where the vtec engages. in fact you can shift a s2k @8500 and still land above vtec, but if you want better straight line times you have to shift it @9100.

If I had a motor with an example right off the top of my head, why would I use that as an example?

by the way there are no high revving motor that revs past 8k that has peak torque at or round 5000rpms, they're all in the sixes. also, the strongest gears in a gts is 3rd and 4th cause when you land in that gear it brings it closer to peak torque. 2nd@8400 shifting into 3rd lands @6400, 3rd@8400 going into 4th will land @6700rpms, 4th@8400 will land @6500 because 5th is a long gear that doesn't cut-off till 145mph. 3rd ends @88mph, 4th@112mph and 5th@145mph, so you can clearly see how long 5th gear so the pull isn't as strong. it would've been better if 5th topped out @130 not 145.

[djimpak]

or you can get an RSX-S and put in a hondata reflashed ecu... vtec kicks in at about 5400 and redline is about 8900-9200.... i dont know

[Rich_Manas]

Originally Posted by djimpak

or you can get an RSX-S and put in a hondata reflashed ecu... vtec kicks in at about 5400 and redline is about 8900-9200.... i dont know

were talking about factory. plus hondata seems to be blowing some of those K20A2 motors. cutoff without any head work is 8700rpms and supposedly that's the safe shift rpms. if the car has some head work it can spin past 9k.

[djimpak]

ohh, my bad. but daym... being in lift is badass...

i dont this there is a car that has peak torque starting at 5k and revs up to 8k+.

[PRESTIGEScioN]

I can't wait to get mine
is it June yet???