YATR: Yet Another Toyobaru Rumor
06-18-2009, 12:12 AM
#1
YATR: Yet Another Toyobaru Rumor
At this point I really don't even know if it's worth posting... but here we go.
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/06/17/r...o-the-surface/
http://www.7tune.com/i-saw-the-toyota-086a/
Looks pretty badass... but not really much of an AE86 descendant. And I wouldn't count on this being the next tC. Not only is the next tC rumored to be much more Fuse-like... but this is much closer to a baby LF-A.
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/06/17/r...o-the-surface/
http://www.7tune.com/i-saw-the-toyota-086a/
Looks pretty badass... but not really much of an AE86 descendant. And I wouldn't count on this being the next tC. Not only is the next tC rumored to be much more Fuse-like... but this is much closer to a baby LF-A.
.
06-18-2009, 07:22 PM
#4
Senior Member
teamNJCT
Fresh Crew
SL Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parsippany, NJ
Posts: 16,646
Atleast the design is improving lol. Get rid of the connecting headlight/tail light look and that would be pretty nice.
I still don't think it has potential to become my next car though. I'm pretty set on switching to either an AWD Subi or a RWD V8.
I still don't think it has potential to become my next car though. I'm pretty set on switching to either an AWD Subi or a RWD V8.
06-18-2009, 07:30 PM
#7
Senior Member
teamNJCT
Fresh Crew
SL Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parsippany, NJ
Posts: 16,646
I'm curious of how it's all going to work out. I know there will be a Subaru and a Toyota, but Subaru is all about AWD. If it's AWD, I would definitely consider it. RWD...not so much. Won't have enough power to have fun with RWD.
06-18-2009, 07:40 PM
#8
I've heard the Toyota version will be RWD and sold in the US... and the Subaru version will be AWD but not sold in the US. Don't recall where I read that, but it was very early in the rumor cycle of this thing and quite a while ago.
06-18-2009, 07:48 PM
#11
Senior Member
teamNJCT
Fresh Crew
SL Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parsippany, NJ
Posts: 16,646
Originally Posted by davedavetC
i also heard the opposite, which is why it'll be my next car. Subaru will be my next car.
07-31-2009, 09:22 PM
#14
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Southside Chicago
Posts: 256
Even if this is true, as long as it is made AWD in some country, then the parts will be available for us to turn our RWD into an AWD.
08-01-2009, 09:19 PM
#16
That looks sweet but that looks like a 2 seater! Why on earth would they go to a 2 seater when subaru dont even make a 2 seater and the only one Toyota makes is the sc430. Well there will be a lot of dissapointed people if it is. I am married and want kids this will be a big let down.
08-03-2009, 06:53 PM
#17
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Tysons Corner, VA (NOVA)
Posts: 308
Looks like a better looking solstice lol.
But why release it with 40 less hp?
That makes no sense. WHO wants 160CRANKhp RWD 2 seater?
Might as well get a slightly used s2000 thx. Much more to work with there (240crank HP..AP2) and it actually has a LSD.
IF toyota could just be smart and offer three versions. 160hp NA 2.4L tc engine. 200hp 3g (dual vvti on celica motor should acomplish this) and a 300hp sti motor.
If they did that, it would sell like hot cakes.
160hp $19,800
200hp $20,600
300hp $22,300
The only reason is used these prices is because I am HOPING that they will offer everything the 2009 tc has in it accessory wise in this car. Now we could argue for a truly BASE model (cloth seats, 1st gen xa/xb radio, no power windows..i actually prefer powerless windows...no lsd) for like $16,300 and for an LSD it would be 17,300 or something.
No bargain price/no haggle and it would sell faster than they can build a corrola.
They obviously failed miserably with the MR-S giving it no HP and that bubble baby dog look.
Subaru is supposed to add 30hp to the sti since they added 30 or so hp to the WRX. The club wrx forum is slowly clarifying this.
in good regards,
Regis
But why release it with 40 less hp?
That makes no sense. WHO wants 160CRANKhp RWD 2 seater?
Might as well get a slightly used s2000 thx. Much more to work with there (240crank HP..AP2) and it actually has a LSD.
IF toyota could just be smart and offer three versions. 160hp NA 2.4L tc engine. 200hp 3g (dual vvti on celica motor should acomplish this) and a 300hp sti motor.
If they did that, it would sell like hot cakes.
160hp $19,800
200hp $20,600
300hp $22,300
The only reason is used these prices is because I am HOPING that they will offer everything the 2009 tc has in it accessory wise in this car. Now we could argue for a truly BASE model (cloth seats, 1st gen xa/xb radio, no power windows..i actually prefer powerless windows...no lsd) for like $16,300 and for an LSD it would be 17,300 or something.
No bargain price/no haggle and it would sell faster than they can build a corrola.
They obviously failed miserably with the MR-S giving it no HP and that bubble baby dog look.
Subaru is supposed to add 30hp to the sti since they added 30 or so hp to the WRX. The club wrx forum is slowly clarifying this.
in good regards,
Regis
Last edited by DeiselFuel2o2; 08-03-2009 at 06:57 PM.
08-03-2009, 08:09 PM
#18
Senior Member
teamNJCT
Fresh Crew
SL Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parsippany, NJ
Posts: 16,646
140 more HP for $2,500? I'm guessing you completely forgot about the supporting mods that come with the STi package. If they were to truly follow the Subaru model lineup and offer 3 variations, it wouldn't have 2 toyota motors and 1 Subaru motor for the options. There would be way too much work to create two completely different powertrains for the same vehicle, just to offer a low quantity model (STi). If it was to truly follow Subaru, it would be more like $19,000(Base)/$24,000(WRX)/$35,000(STi). If you haven't noticed, there are a lot more things to an STi than just a power upgrade. Better suspension, better brakes, better seats, better transmission, driver controlled differential, better tires, etc. There is a reason why there is a $10,000 price difference between the WRX and STi.
If they did things right, they could easily pull off a 160HP RWD 2-seater. Who would want it? I don't know, how about the millions of people who have bought/considered a Miata or 240sx? 160HP might not sound like a lot, but if that thing is around 2500lbs and has matching torque, it would be fun to drive. However, since Toyota seems to be calling the shots on this, the car will result in complete failure. I called it months ago by saying it will be over weight and underpowered.
If they did things right, they could easily pull off a 160HP RWD 2-seater. Who would want it? I don't know, how about the millions of people who have bought/considered a Miata or 240sx? 160HP might not sound like a lot, but if that thing is around 2500lbs and has matching torque, it would be fun to drive. However, since Toyota seems to be calling the shots on this, the car will result in complete failure. I called it months ago by saying it will be over weight and underpowered.
08-03-2009, 09:51 PM
#19
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Tysons Corner, VA (NOVA)
Posts: 308
Ok so maybe my pricing was, and yes I do all the stuff that goes into an STi vs. a WRX.
The concern I am having (same as yours) is weight.
If they could make a 160hp 2300lb car (xa/xb) or even 2500 I would be all for it.
But if it's going to be 3200lbs, 2 seater, 160hp I would MUCH rather get a v6 camaro (300hp around 3400lbs) and have money left over.
I am starting to get dissapointed in toyota. While their market is cheap transportation, why can't they offer a few nicer cars?
The solara is a failure
The new crossover is ugly and way underpowered
The celica is gone
The mr-S was an epic failure...sw-30 and aw11's were much better IMHO
Honda is about to replace the s2000 and if I were toyota I would replace it with my own model before Honda puts a new one out.
While the miata's are nice, they have gone up in weight which is not what people want.
"Hmmm same hp as before..but wait...an extra 600lbs! no thx"
I was thinking in terms of keeping the same tranny...like a 6spd for all the cars in which the engines are swappable. If they come out with a great suspension to begin with their will be no need to "upgrade".
That is why I started higher than 18k. 20k for 165, 23k for 200hp and 25k for 250hp or something
I was thinking along the lines of a real affordable performance car.
If toyota is still on their 10 yr plans, they will see that offering a car with adjustable springs/shocks as a base, the same 6spd for all the engines, same brakes (if they all come with 16" rims you can't exactly go bigger..) etc.
This would make the extra 2k for 200hp and 5k for 250hp more realistic.
Then people can buy the base model, decide that they don't like it, get toyota to swap engines for them later on (5k) so they can compete with turbo/supercharger companies that can offer the same power upgrade.
Now if toyota really did this, they would make alot of money. Sure the profit they would see on each car be around the same as a corolla, but they will sell alot of these and keep people loyal to toyota.
If you cannot keep a customer, where's the continuous profit going to come from?
Maybe I went on a rant but seriously, if they did what I just stated everyone would be able to afford these cars, and the car companies will have to think more outside the box and it will start a new kind of HP war.
All these high dollar heavy cars are in the middle of a HP war, what about the smaller market?
If toyota starts this cheaper, more reliable power war then maybe the whole country will be happy lol.
just a thought,
Regis
The concern I am having (same as yours) is weight.
If they could make a 160hp 2300lb car (xa/xb) or even 2500 I would be all for it.
But if it's going to be 3200lbs, 2 seater, 160hp I would MUCH rather get a v6 camaro (300hp around 3400lbs) and have money left over.
I am starting to get dissapointed in toyota. While their market is cheap transportation, why can't they offer a few nicer cars?
The solara is a failure
The new crossover is ugly and way underpowered
The celica is gone
The mr-S was an epic failure...sw-30 and aw11's were much better IMHO
Honda is about to replace the s2000 and if I were toyota I would replace it with my own model before Honda puts a new one out.
While the miata's are nice, they have gone up in weight which is not what people want.
"Hmmm same hp as before..but wait...an extra 600lbs! no thx"
I was thinking in terms of keeping the same tranny...like a 6spd for all the cars in which the engines are swappable. If they come out with a great suspension to begin with their will be no need to "upgrade".
That is why I started higher than 18k. 20k for 165, 23k for 200hp and 25k for 250hp or something
I was thinking along the lines of a real affordable performance car.
If toyota is still on their 10 yr plans, they will see that offering a car with adjustable springs/shocks as a base, the same 6spd for all the engines, same brakes (if they all come with 16" rims you can't exactly go bigger..) etc.
This would make the extra 2k for 200hp and 5k for 250hp more realistic.
Then people can buy the base model, decide that they don't like it, get toyota to swap engines for them later on (5k) so they can compete with turbo/supercharger companies that can offer the same power upgrade.
Now if toyota really did this, they would make alot of money. Sure the profit they would see on each car be around the same as a corolla, but they will sell alot of these and keep people loyal to toyota.
If you cannot keep a customer, where's the continuous profit going to come from?
Maybe I went on a rant but seriously, if they did what I just stated everyone would be able to afford these cars, and the car companies will have to think more outside the box and it will start a new kind of HP war.
All these high dollar heavy cars are in the middle of a HP war, what about the smaller market?
If toyota starts this cheaper, more reliable power war then maybe the whole country will be happy lol.
just a thought,
Regis
08-03-2009, 11:20 PM
#20
Senior Member
teamNJCT
Fresh Crew
SL Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parsippany, NJ
Posts: 16,646
Your theories are so unrealistic. They would never take 'performance' suspension/brake systems from the high end model and put them in the lowest end model, nor would they ever take the lowest end model suspension/brakes and put them on the highest model. And there is no middle ground.
As for the S2000, rumor has it that the replacement could be a FWD, hybrid 2-seater. If this is the case, I don't think Toyota has much to worry about in terms of same-class competition. However, if that is the case, expect Toyota to answer back with a FWD, hybrid 2-seater.
I don't know where you're coming up with $5,000 for this 'engine swap', but unless the motor took 5 minutes to swap and was incredibly cheap, that's not going to happen. Ever. A typical 4-cylinder motor costs $4-6,000 brand new. It also pays probably in the ballpark of 20-25 hours for a swap. Add on fluids, gaskets and such, and you're easily looking at a $10,000 job. So you bought the base model for $20,000, decided to do the "swap" and paid another $10,000. Now you've paid around $30,000 for a $25,000 vehicle. Plus you now have mis-matching VINs, and as a result of that, resale value has plummeted.
Also, where are you getting these numbers for the Miata? The original Miata was 2,100 lbs, the current Miata is 2,400. It's only 300lbs heavier, and to compensate for that, they bumped the power from 120HP/100TQ to 170HP/140TQ. The result? 0-60 time improved from 9.5s to 6.5s. I've driven a new Miata, it's anything but "not what people want." It's a blast to drive, and it's even more fun to auto-x. If I could actually fit in one with the top up, I would have considered buying one.
Adjustable suspension from the factory? That would never happen on a mass produced, fully warrantied car. If something goes wrong with it, Toyota will put the blame on the customer, then the customer will sue, and money is lost and wasted on both ends.
And your pricing is still insanely unrealistic. Let's take a look at other vehicles which offer multiple trim levels. The Civic, DX is $14k, EX is $18k, SI is $24k. The Mazda 3, Sedan is $15k, 5-DR is $19k, SPEED is $23k. Mustang, V6 is $21k, GT is $31k, GT500 is $47k. Lancer, Base is $16k, RalliArt is $24k, Evo is $32k. Noticing a trend?
As for the S2000, rumor has it that the replacement could be a FWD, hybrid 2-seater. If this is the case, I don't think Toyota has much to worry about in terms of same-class competition. However, if that is the case, expect Toyota to answer back with a FWD, hybrid 2-seater.
I don't know where you're coming up with $5,000 for this 'engine swap', but unless the motor took 5 minutes to swap and was incredibly cheap, that's not going to happen. Ever. A typical 4-cylinder motor costs $4-6,000 brand new. It also pays probably in the ballpark of 20-25 hours for a swap. Add on fluids, gaskets and such, and you're easily looking at a $10,000 job. So you bought the base model for $20,000, decided to do the "swap" and paid another $10,000. Now you've paid around $30,000 for a $25,000 vehicle. Plus you now have mis-matching VINs, and as a result of that, resale value has plummeted.
Also, where are you getting these numbers for the Miata? The original Miata was 2,100 lbs, the current Miata is 2,400. It's only 300lbs heavier, and to compensate for that, they bumped the power from 120HP/100TQ to 170HP/140TQ. The result? 0-60 time improved from 9.5s to 6.5s. I've driven a new Miata, it's anything but "not what people want." It's a blast to drive, and it's even more fun to auto-x. If I could actually fit in one with the top up, I would have considered buying one.
Adjustable suspension from the factory? That would never happen on a mass produced, fully warrantied car. If something goes wrong with it, Toyota will put the blame on the customer, then the customer will sue, and money is lost and wasted on both ends.
And your pricing is still insanely unrealistic. Let's take a look at other vehicles which offer multiple trim levels. The Civic, DX is $14k, EX is $18k, SI is $24k. The Mazda 3, Sedan is $15k, 5-DR is $19k, SPEED is $23k. Mustang, V6 is $21k, GT is $31k, GT500 is $47k. Lancer, Base is $16k, RalliArt is $24k, Evo is $32k. Noticing a trend?