Rivulent

Well you are both paying too much and grossly misinformed, assuming you're running a near-stock setup.

Tomas

See:
http://autorepair.about.com/b/a/220059.htm
http://autorepair.about.com/od/enginefuel/a/111705.htm
http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/flexfuelvehicles.php
and
http://www.e85fuel.com/forsuppliers/...or%20Suppliers

The air/fuel percentages are VERY different when using E85 instead of gasoline, and the ECU profile has to be changed drastically when going from one to the other.

The fuel system corrosion and the fuel system "soft component" resistance to the solvent effects of a strong ethanol mix argue against 'converting' a vehicle designed for a maximim of E10 (Toyota, per their manuals) to be happy with E85.

sciontc_mich

so basically to answer the original question.. NO you CANNOT USE E85 in your tC.. the most ethanol blend is like 10% with 90% gasoline.. any more ethanol than that, you can kiss your fuel system goodbye (not a pretty picture)..

so stick to the regular gas for your tC..

bB2NER

It will say wether or not you can run it on your fuel cap. Mine says no. I wouldn't for the simple fact it may void your warranty if something fails and they test the fuel.

artyin

so you can't use e85 in a scion. do you think toyota will develop a way to modifiy current scions to use e85?

if toyota is making flex fuel vehicles for 2008, can they also convert existing toyotas to accept e85?

io333

I was wondering that myself.

Tomas

It depends on a lot of factors...

(1) Are all the fuel system components (metals, plastics, rubbers, etc.) fully compatible with high concentrations of ethanol?

(2) Is the ECU re-programmable, or wouild it need to be replaced? (Most likely would have to be replaced with a dual-fuel unit.)

(3) Can the injectors handle the required increased flow?

(4) Will the power curves with E85 need different curves for the electronically controlled transmission? (auto)

(5) Will the reduced range for a full tank (assume 10% reduction) be OK?

(6) Will the potential reduction in power available be OK?

(7) And finally, will the cost of conversion be something the owners would find acceptable?

(There are probably more questions that would need to be answered before an acceptable flex-fuel-conversion could surface, but those are a start.)

emiller

I would guess no. Chances are it would require a replacement of a lot of stuff in the fuel system. If it was just a few parts they would have made it take E85 already.

rollotomassi

I used a Full tank of E85 in my xB over Easter weekend while in South Dakota. It's $1.79 (one dollar & seventy nine cents) there because they have several plants in that state. Before everyone gets preachy, I have the platinum (6yr-100k) warranty so I said WTF- I'll be the guinnie pig.

The car ran FINE. No noticable loss of power, no check engine light, no nothing. There was absolutely no noticable difference. Did I shorten the life of some components....possible, but the car didn't explode. There were no fuel lines rupturing or fires to put out. There seem to be quite a few urban myths about E85 already.

I am NOT saying that you should use it in your Scion. I just thought I would share my experience. I think that it works in a pinch.

I have read that there is a possible problem with the corrosive nature of E85. I definetely would not use it on a regular basis.

BTW, my gas mileage dropped about 3 MPG over the trip back to MN.

There's my 2 cents. Now....let the roasting of me commence!!!!!

trikkonceptz

Here is a question to ask you E85 experts ..

Why is only GM/Chevy backing it as a manufacturer ? I figured Toyota as a world leader would decide it was a good thing and make there american based cars E85 compliant. Instead they are banking and improving there Hybrid synergy systems.

Makes you think .. Is E85 backed up my GM ? No other manufacturer is supporting E85, ask yourselves why ?

emiller

Seems to be mostly American cars that support it except for Nissan.

http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/flexfuelvehicles.php

Vehicle listing is below. Unfortunately, if your vehicle is not listed, your vehicle is NOT E85 compatible.

Daimler Chrysler
Ford
General Motors
Isuzu
Mazda
Mercedes
Mercury
Nissan

trikkonceptz

Notice that all those companies are owned by Ford or GM, may be worth investigating whether or not this will be a worldwide fuel alternative or another domestic money making scam for the oil tycoons here in the US.

I'm not mocking the benefits, just questioning the financial motivation.

Keitaro

Toyota Ethanol cars likely by 2008:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=110094

Most of the gas stations in my area have switched to 10%ethanol blend. Toyota might just create a more efficient powertrain system instead of using Toyota's current crop of engines. Toyota developed one of the most efficient less environmental impact diesel engine for the car market (Toyota D4D 180).

allgoodpeople

I also took a shot and put in a tank of E85 into my 2006 xB. I read through the owners manual before hand, and the only indication it made was that the octane of any fuel run through the vehicle needed to be higher than 85 (E85 comes in at what, 110?) So far it has run just fine - although I will be curious to see what kind of mileage I get out of it.

At the time I filled up, it was only $.07 a gallon cheaper than regular unleaded, so not sure the risks people are mentioning here are worth it. But hey, thought I would throw in my two cents. It doesn't seem to be ruining my xB, but I'm not sure the price savings is worth it either.

Tomas

The box is NOT a Flex-Fuel vehicle... None of the Toyota vehicles sold in the US market are Flex-Fuel.

E85 is 85% ethanol. Toyota/Scion recommends only up to 10% ethanol (E10) to prevent damage to seals and other materials in the fuel system. The engine will run fine on E85, though it may run a bit too lean due to the injectors not being sized to handle the increased fuel needs at wide-open throttle, etc.

The problem is that the materials used in the fuel system have not been changed out to handle nearly straight alcohol - it acts like a solvent on some parts, and corrodes some of the metal parts.

An occasional partial tank may be OK, but the box shouldn't be fed a steady diet of E85 (and according to the manufacturer, shouldn't be fed it at all).



See also: http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/flexfuelvehicles.php

allgoodpeople

yeah, i saw that part of the manual too, but was not sure because of the difference in terms. I figured, what they hey, in the spirit of adventure i'll give it a try.

after reading through this thread though, i don't think i will be repeating my experiment, and might even run a couple tanks of high test through just to clean the lines out. Luckily I am driving several hours away this week, so the tank should be emptied of the E85 relatively quickly.

Aringer2000

Last night put in 3 gallons of E85, combined with the remaining E10 to make a full tank.

This produced a blend of ~E30. I drove 103 miles today it with no lie affects.

Today i add another 3 gallons of E85, to make a full tank again.

This produced a blend of ~E45. I drove only ~15 miles but still there are no lie affects.

I plan to drive the car to empty and go with a full E85 tank of gas.

I have heavily researched Toyota's VVT-i system and it's ability to continuously adjust its self to current driving conditions. Its able to adjust all perimeters of management(fuel input, ignition timing, valve timing).

Also i find it curious that my 06 Xa doesn't have rubber fuel lines. My lines are metal, metal is far more resistance to corrosion of course.

I just find it all curious that even tho Toyota says our cars can't run E85, After much research i'm beginning to find toyota's claims less and less believable. Interesting huh?

Tomas

The E85 shouldn't affect the fuel lines, but may cause some swelling of some gaskets - again no foul. The injectors, being set up for gasoline, are not quite big enough for "full throttle" with E85, but the difference should be minor.

The biggest potential problem is the metal parts, and their coatings being prepared for petroleum products, but not quite ready for alcohol and especially the water that often comes with it.

SOME of the metal components of the fuel system have a bad tendancy to expect the fuel to protect them from water, and will corrode when exposed to alcohol/water for extended periods.

Good luck! :D

Tom

Aringer2000

Ok well full E85 with no problems what so ever. My car has actually picked up quiet a bit of power which i will be going to my local dyno to prove. And my fuel economy has only dropped one mile per gallon. Yea the VVT-i system can handle the extra 30% fuel. Don't waste your money on flex fuel computers our car can do it. Yes every single Scion ever made can do it then. Toyota motor company sucks and so does the government for bull ____ting us.

Point being every single VVT-i equipped Toyota and all VTEC-i equipped Hondas can use E85 with no modifications what so ever.


Seriously after all my research just try to prove me wrong.

Tomas

...let us know if there is any of the expected corrosion down the road...