Oh sweet zombie jesus, please tell me you didn't just say creationist ideas punched holes in evolution... It is the reasoning behind the ideas that's the problems. Evolution has evidence, creationists don't even use proper science but say it is science with no proof to show for it. Just like there is no evidence of god. The only faith that is involved is believing that facts and the laws of the universe don't change. And if you don't believe in those two things there is no point to arguing since you have no basis for reality.

As far as the original topic goes... I think he picks on the christians because of the vast publicity they get in america (not to mention texas where he lives). Plus they're real easy to pick on. I would love to help tear on other Augustinian faiths as well as non-Augustinian faiths. Even several of the pagan groups get on my nerves (neofluffers, Dianic wiccans, D&D wannabes, etc).

 

SL was moving to slow for me to chime in yesterday. I am not going to do it because apparently I have already been labeled as a trouble maker but if someone wants to start there own "evolution" thread you can count me in.

 

Seriously... Why is it the stupid questions and opponents to evolution always come from those that have no real concept of how evolution works?...

Listen very carefully boys and girls. Every organism of one species on the planet does not magically turn into a wholly different creature. ONE mutation occurs in ONE creature through random breeding genetic error (I can get very technically in depth if you wish, I'm a biochemist). If the mutation is detrimental, the creature either dies or does not get to breed (species tend to go for the best of the pack, not the sick and/or inferior). If the mutation helps the organism to survive or adapt to it's surroundings better it lives longer and gets to breed more or for longer generations. This propagates the mutation (as every offspring afterwards, more or less, should have this mutation). They in turn breed more and have more offspring and so forth. If the mutated organisms can no longer breed with the non-mutated organisms (and have sterile offspring) they are considered to be a unique species (this is a scientific definition, ie. man made specification). The two species now live in the same area and most likely share the same food source and territory. Sometimes they spread out and share the land or go nomad style to find their own food source (speciation). Sometimes they compete for the same food source and territory and one species (typically the one that is better adapted to the terrain) gets main control. This tends to starve out the inferior species which either goes nomad to find a new supply, or it dies out (extinction). The latter is why you don't see cavemen anymore. Monkeys didn't magically turn into humans. Some mutants went to different terrain (trees, caves, jungle, mountains, etc). Some fought each other to extinction (cro-magnon and "modern" humans).

woot! pagan love!

 

Yeah, yesterday I could barely even get the page to load after 10 minutes. What the hell happened? Did a server go down or something? I'm down for an evolution thread. Maybe we can actually educate people so we stop hearing inane questions and comments...

 

If we didn't have monkey's what would be able to ********** in public and not be arrested?

 

^Haha, women I guess.

 

Only in a perfect world.

 

i believe in evolution, but i don't have faith in it. Again, for the thousandth time on this site, when i say "i believe in evolution" it's not the same concept as "i believe in christianity". Evolution is not a end-all tells you everything you want to know type of theory. I believe in facts. And I accept that some theories are the most plausible answer we currently have with our understanding. I do simply recognise that things like the horse went from puny little 4 toed mammals to single toed large mammals. I believe sperm whales evolved from a larger animal that walked on land(as it seems apparent with it's vestigal legs if you ever study those, it's pretty neat). Evolution currently is a lot of little from this animal/plant to another animal/plant slow evolution, usually changed by just some simple natural selection. but punch holes in whatever you think you can, i'd love to hear what you got.

Look, i know i come off as "hating christianity" because I point out things that completely contradict the bible. I just really hate when any religion starts teaching 3 year olds jesus died on the cross for their sins. As a parent, I know how easy it is to brainwash kids, and it seems really apparent in many of you that's what happened. shoot it happened to me. I've also never met a 3 year old that wants to hold theological discussions. No, christianity teaches children jesus=truth. Don't we all know any "truth"coming from your parent or teacher at such a young age, is going to be accepted as a real truth without question. We got millions of kids in this country, that will be sheltered from any other kind of thought of this world until they are nearly out of their parent's house. Isn't that's brainwashing, or is it just so pervausive that no one calls it that anymore? (Yes, I've already heard how me NOT teaching my child about christianity is brainwashing too. right..)

I respect any man who comes up with their religion or belief system on their own, but i don't respect when people merely copy another guys. And I really don't respect when someone takes a religion, strips out what they don't like in it, maybe add a few new ideas in, and now honestly try and call that "fact" or "truth". This is something nearly every christian does. Same with agnostics even, who take the christian's idea there is a god, and saying "maybe they're right, i don't know, but i really don't feel like thinking about it anymore" that it may be true for fear that god may be watching or something. Where do they get their idea of god in the first place? well most likely in this country, christianity. Again, it's just taking a religion, stripping out what you don't like, and calling that a possible truth.

i don't hate religion, i hate what people do with it. I hate our country's leaders are trying their best to keep us as far in the dark ages as possible because of their beliefs. Stem cell research is a great example. 400,000 eggs in the freezer right now waiting, but christians think there should be a problem with it, so they keep us from going forward in medicine and curing people. We all know prayer doesn't actually cure people of truly terminal illnesses, medicine does. I guess AIDS being god's wrath and all, we shouldn't try and mess with it?

when me and whoever debates about which idea/religion is true, i can do one of two things, present my side about evolution and the way things are, or I can point to why the bible is wrong and certain things couldn't have happened like it says they did(daysofcreation/flood/lineage of jesus/age of the planet, etc...). Showing how the bible is wrong is a whole lot easier, because if I start talking about history, dinosaurs, astronomy, physics, plate techtonics, gravity, etc... all in one conversation, most of the time, i'm reteaching people what we all learned in elementary school what most people forgot. I've done it 100+ times already, and will tell it 1000 times more, but it's really tiring talking to people who start debating that dinosaurs even existed.

 

Whats the evidence for evolution? I'd love to see it ,post it here please...last i checked, scientists didnt have any evidence, so i'd love to see what you have regarding this....

Speaking of creationists tearing holes in evolution, i've been a christian for 16 years now, and i've studied up quite a bit...let me ask you a few questions...

This is a long post, I appologize in advance... :-)

If you think evolutionists have all the answers, try a few of the following questions on 'em.



The test of any theory is whether or not it provides answers to basic questions? Some well-meaning but misguided people think evolution is a reasonable theory to explain man’s questions about the universe. Evolution is not a good theory — it is just a pagan religion masquerading as science.


1. Where did the space for the universe come from?


2. Where did matter come from?


3. Where did the laws of the universe come from (gravity, inertia, etc.)?


4. How did matter get so perfectly organized?


5. Where did the energy come from to do all the organizing?


6. When, where, why, and how did life come from dead matter?


7. When, where, why, and how did life learn to reproduce itself?


8. With what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce?


9. Why would any plant or animal want to reproduce more of its kind since this would only make more mouths to feed and decrease the chances of survival? (Does the individual have a drive to survive, or the species? How do you explain this?)


10. How can mutations (recombining of the genetic code) create any new, improved varieties? (Recombining English letters will never produce Chinese books.)


11. Is it possible that similarities in design between different animals prove a common Creator instead of a common ancestor?


12. Natural selection only works with the genetic information available and tends only to keep a species stable. How would you explain the increasing complexity in the genetic code that must have occurred if evolution were true?


13. When, where, why, and how did
a. Single-celled plants become multi-celled? (Where are the two and three-celled intermediates?)
b. Single-celled animals evolve?
c. Fish change to amphibians?
d. Amphibians change to reptiles?
e. Reptiles change to birds? (The lungs, bones, eyes, reproductive organs, heart, method of locomotion, body covering, etc., are all very different!)
f. How did the intermediate forms live?


14. When, where, why, how, and from what did:
a. Whales evolve?
b. Sea horses evolve?
c. Bats evolve?
d. Eyes evolve?
e. Ears evolve?
f. Hair, skin, feathers, scales, nails, claws, etc., evolve?


15. Which evolved first (how, and how long, did it work without the others)?
a. The digestive system, the food to be digested, the appetite, the ability to find and eat the food, the digestive juices, or the body’s resistance to its own digestive juice (stomach, intestines, etc.)?
b. The drive to reproduce or the ability to reproduce?
c. The lungs, the mucus lining to protect them, the throat, or the perfect mixture of gases to be breathed into the lungs?
d. DNA or RNA to carry the DNA message to cell parts?
e. The termite or the flagella in its intestines that actually digest the cellulose?
f. The plants or the insects that live on and pollinate the plants?
g. The bones, ligaments, tendons, blood supply, or muscles to move the bones?
h. The nervous system, repair system, or hormone system?
i. The immune system or the need for it?


16. There are many thousands of examples of symbiosis that defy an evolutionary explanation. Why must we teach students that evolution is the only explanation for these relationships?


17. How would evolution explain mimicry? Did the plants and animals develop mimicry by chance, by their intelligent choice, or by design?


18. When, where, why, and how did man evolve feelings? Love, mercy, guilt, etc. would never evolve in the theory of evolution.


19. How did photosynthesis evolve?


20. How did thought evolve?


21. How did flowering plants evolve, and from what?


22. What kind of evolutionist are you? Why are you not one of the other eight or ten kinds?


23. What would you have said fifty years ago if I told you I had a living coelacanth in my aquarium?


24. Is there one clear prediction of macroevolution that has proved true?


25. What is so scientific about the idea of hydrogen gas becoming human?


26. Do you honestly believe that everything came from nothing?

 

Dinosaurs never existed. God put thier bones there to throw humanity off track. Duh... everyone knows that.

And in future krusty... I did not see this post till now... Don't say that I said things I never said. If you can't back it up with a quote don't say it. Seriously, otherwise how can we have a rational conversation?

 

LOL... you obviously have no grasp on the concept of evolution and those questions clearly represent a non-secular scared crapless view of science.

Evolution does not explain how matter came to be only what happened after.

 

How did it come to be? Thats just as important.

 

Ok... this is for all you idiots out there that forgot correlation does not mean causation. (Not xdorkx cause he has tattoos so he is cool.)

Theists think that they are brilliantly proving the existence of god by asking "where did matter come from?". When atheists say "I don't know" they say "HA! There is a God" when in actuality that is not logic. There are an infinite amount of possibilities other than your god. Stop being stupid. xdorkx, that is directed to ilovethebible.com or whatever website you got those questions from.

 

oy we have been down this road before. please answer about dinosaurs, the bones we have SHOWING THE EVOLUTION OF MONKEYS TO MAN... i understand that some people cannot grasp some concepts or have been blinded by faith, but most understand that these are facts, provable by the remains of species. as i said we've been down this road, and this could turn ugly so please play nice!

and btw u ask the questions that all scientists ask... how did IT happen? at this point, we dont know. how LAWS were created? 1+1=2. how does that law work? simple. add 1 to 1 and the end result is 2 units, 2. gravity is being understood more and more, and matter works the same way... more complex, but the basis is simple! such things are not unknown to us, just unknown to those who do not wish to know.

game on!

 

Dave, you've listed another bunch of reasons why you feel the way you do. Now I could easily debate those reasons, one by one. You could post a bunch of "facts" to back up your side and so could I. Those debates have been done a billion times and they are tiresome. The thing is, I didn't ask you why you feel the way you do about christianty. I asked you why you make such an obvious effort to turn so many threads into a debate about it even when the thread had nothing to do with it. It's blatantly obvious when you are baiting people in to that debate. It's like you are totally preoccupied by it.

 

I think it is hilarious that every religion spends thousands-millions on missionaries but when an atheist tries to talk about religion there is something wrong. Hypocracy in action.

 

Like I said above, if you want to start a thread about religion or join in one...great. That's the whole point of a message forum. What I'm talking about is trying to work religion into nearly every discussion so you have an opportunity to start all over again.

 

I haven't been around as long as you guys but come to think of it I can't think of a time when dave has done this. Links?

 

You're right. You either haven't been around much, or you're not reading the same threads. Believe me, he's done it many times. No I do not have links because I'm not going to spend the time going back through and digging.

 

Seems to me that this is a pointless thread if you can't back up your claims...

If I had a nickle for every time a theist asked me to just "believe" him...