rhythmnsmoke

Finally a vid with the new 2013 Gen Coupe 2.0T

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=1ronU4dyK-8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=tocQWKGrNE0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=57TtqhKOaTU

Brichard0625

See now thats a comparo! And i knew the brz would win this segment...the genesis is way to heavy and even tho it has all this power i knew the numbers wouldnt be all that far away from the brz...

rhythmnsmoke

Yea, people often forget about weight of the vehicle and equate power to being the only factor that determines a great car.

user 7208230

iTrader: (1)

Nice comparison, I was wondering how it stacked up against the Genesis pig.

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

Now we know. The torqueless BRZ stacks up being significantly slower 0-60, 1/4 mile, top speed, slalom and over 2 seconds slower per lap than the Genesis. Not at all what I was hoping for but it is what it is.

dhooks90

all in all the brz is a well rounded car.

rhythmnsmoke

And we also know that the BRZ/FR-S had the better chassis, better gear box, better balance, better steering input and better overall driving experience.

You can always acquire more power, if you want to Chase down numbers. But you can't acquire a better chassis.

I can only imagine what this car will do to the competition in the next versions to come, when its already beating them in the overall review.

TheQuietThings

jeez i wish scion would use WRB paint, looks so good!

so its obvious you dont buy the car for the power, #'s, or any other meaningless stats, you buy the car because you like to drive and have fun doing it.

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

To each his own I suppose. Getting smoked by the competition in every objective performance category would tend to diminish my subjective overall driving experience. Spending $5-10K and voiding the warranty on a new, unproven Subaru engine to add the missing power isn't very appealing to me either. I'll be watching, waiting and hoping for a factory FI version next year.

rhythmnsmoke

Didn't you boost an xB?

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

Yes, but having done it, I don't really want to do it again. I'd much rather start with a factory FI engine and tweak it. I'm pretty sure that the FA20 will require at least new pistons for FI and if Toyota makes the ECU then tuning options might be very limited.

I honestly think the BRZ/FRS is a great car for the money and plan to test drive one. All I'm saying is that it may not be the car for me.

rhythmnsmoke

HKS already has a S/C for the FA20. Ran 250whp on stock motor to start. Ptuning has an FR-S in house currently, for turbo development.

Toyota has already stated that the ECU will not be locked down.

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

That's very interesting. I didn't think it would be practical to boost a 12.5:1 engine and I'm shocked that Toyota is going to allow ECU tuning. That's potentially great news! I could easily live with a 250hp/200tq FRS or BRZ. It sounds like you're more committed to the car than I am at this point. I'd still rather wait for the factory FI versions next year but that's just me.

rhythmnsmoke

Just passing along info. I'm waiting a year before purchase as well, but they have stated that there will be no F/I version. Subaru thinks they can squeeze another 50hp out of the N/A.

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

I appreciate the info and I really think that Subaru is lying on both counts. 250bhp from a N/A 2.0L smog legal boxer? I won't hold my breath for that but since they already have a turbo FA20 developed for the Legacy, why not a 2014 BRZ STi? I'd expect them to deny it as long as possible so as not to hurt current model sales. As the wise Zen Master said: "we'll see".

http://blog.caranddriver.com/turbo-v...ower-next-wrx/

rhythmnsmoke

I think the thought was that they can extract more power out of it.

The other thing I was thinking of in terms of the objective test, there is a video of the BRZ/FR-S running a track with the stock tires on, and then switching tires and shaving off 2sec + change. Wonder how the BRZ/FR-S would do with tires similar to the competitions.

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

I believe there is some untapped power in the FA20 but 100hp per liter is already fantastic for a N/A engine and getting more probably won't be cheap or easy. I'd guess maybe +20whp from IHE.

No matter how well the BRZ/FRS handles and carries speed through a corner, it still lacks the power to get up to speed again after the corner. It should be fantastic for auto-x and just having fun on twisty roads. Unfortunately for me I spend much more time on highways where I need more power to pass left lane squatting imbeciles quickly.

rhythmnsmoke

Vivid Racing has a thread and they are dyno testing some bolt-ons right now. No numbers posted yet. They are using a Mustang dyno.

And you are wrong on the lacking the power to get up to speed again after the corner. If you enter a corner faster than another guy then you will exit said corner at a higher speed as well. Heavier cars will need to apply the brakes more to negotiate the same turn. Where it will lack will be the straight way only. I've been there and done that. I track on a regular basis. I tracked my tC when it was only 150whp, and I track it with 300+ whp now. I was still out lapping guys in Mustang GT's, Miata's, S2k's..ect with my 150whp because they would be slow in the corners. I would utilize momentum rather than power. The FR-S/BRZ is a momentum car on the track. In test like these where the same driver is driving all of the cars, then you can see where cars stack up next to one another. But on a track against a totally different driver, it's more about the driver (significantly more about the driver).

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

Right or wrong depends upon the type of racing and the track. It's been years since I auto-crossed but when I did I had little trouble out-lapping Honda CRXs, Miatas, RX7s and even Porsches with a 87 Mustang GT. Basically all that V8 tq was able to generate more momentum than the lighter, better handling, lower-powered cars could carry through the corners.

Whether or not the BRZ/FRS has enough power depends on individual preference and what you want to do with it. IMO the BRZ/FRS is a brilliant car and offers a lot of performance for the money. It's just not the car for me.

rhythmnsmoke

AutoX is not lapping...it's cones in a lot for times, do you mean regular track?

Having enough power has nothing to do with preference in what I'm talking about. It has everything to do with driver skills. Keep in mind, that I'm not trying to convenience you that it is the car for you.

I sat in one today...have you had a chance to see one up close and personal yet? I hope Toyota sticks to their word and not make me wait a significant amount of years before releasing the next version. I want this car bad.