IIHS Tests 2 Door Coupes - tC Not So Great Acshually
07-21-2009, 01:40 PM
#1
IIHS Tests 2 Door Coupes - tC Not So Great Acshually
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/21/i...stly-positive/
I think it has been better in the past. I don't remember it getting "acceptable" before.
Among the 5 car models the Institute recently tested, 4 earn the top rating of good in the 40 mph frontal offset test. The Scion tC is rated acceptable.
The tC's structure held up well, but overall performance wasn't as good as the other cars. Forces recorded on the driver dummy indicate that an injury to the lower right leg would be possible, and a high head acceleration occurred when the dummy's head bottomed out the airbag. The tC is unique in this group for having a separate airbag in the lower instrument panel designed to minimize knee injuries in frontal crashes.
The tC doesn't have electronic stability control, which research shows can significantly reduce the risk of crashing - especially getting into a serious single-vehicle crash. This feature reduces fatal single-vehicle crash risk by 51 percent and fatal multiple-vehicle crash risk by 20 percent.
"Since the tC is especially appealing to younger drivers who are more likely to get into the kinds of situations where electronic stability control can make a difference, even a lifesaving difference, it's disappointing that this feature isn't offered, even as an option," Zuby points out.
No poor performers in side test: Side impacts are the second most common type of fatal crash. More than 8,000 people were killed in side impacts in 2007. This compares with more than 14,000 deaths in frontal crashes. In the Institute's side test, the C30 and Focus are rated good. The Civic, Cobalt, and tC are rated acceptable (note: The Cobalt's rating applies to vehicles built after May 2009, when General Motors modified this car's curtain airbags).
In the Civic, forces on the driver dummy's chest and abdomen indicate that rib fractures and a fractured pelvis would be possible. The tC also was downgraded for torso protection. The Cobalt's marginal score for structural intrusion into the occupant compartment prevented this car from earning a good rating overall in the side test.
The tC's structure held up well, but overall performance wasn't as good as the other cars. Forces recorded on the driver dummy indicate that an injury to the lower right leg would be possible, and a high head acceleration occurred when the dummy's head bottomed out the airbag. The tC is unique in this group for having a separate airbag in the lower instrument panel designed to minimize knee injuries in frontal crashes.
The tC doesn't have electronic stability control, which research shows can significantly reduce the risk of crashing - especially getting into a serious single-vehicle crash. This feature reduces fatal single-vehicle crash risk by 51 percent and fatal multiple-vehicle crash risk by 20 percent.
"Since the tC is especially appealing to younger drivers who are more likely to get into the kinds of situations where electronic stability control can make a difference, even a lifesaving difference, it's disappointing that this feature isn't offered, even as an option," Zuby points out.
No poor performers in side test: Side impacts are the second most common type of fatal crash. More than 8,000 people were killed in side impacts in 2007. This compares with more than 14,000 deaths in frontal crashes. In the Institute's side test, the C30 and Focus are rated good. The Civic, Cobalt, and tC are rated acceptable (note: The Cobalt's rating applies to vehicles built after May 2009, when General Motors modified this car's curtain airbags).
In the Civic, forces on the driver dummy's chest and abdomen indicate that rib fractures and a fractured pelvis would be possible. The tC also was downgraded for torso protection. The Cobalt's marginal score for structural intrusion into the occupant compartment prevented this car from earning a good rating overall in the side test.
07-21-2009, 02:10 PM
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yeah, the tc has 4 out of 5 stars in all previous crash tests i remember when i got it. so suddenly it has gotten worse?
however, i think a vast majority of the people who have totalled their tc's and walked away can say that the tc did a great job protecting them. so whatever.
however, i think a vast majority of the people who have totalled their tc's and walked away can say that the tc did a great job protecting them. so whatever.
07-21-2009, 02:18 PM
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oh, yeah, and electronic stability control is not the answer! practicing better driving is!
aside from being attacked by a deer, i have never been in a single vehicle accident caused from losing control of the vehicle. people just need to learn to drive better and respect the laws of physics.
people actually get more careless when they have stability/traction control and don't pay attention and assume the car will just drive itself or something.
aside from being attacked by a deer, i have never been in a single vehicle accident caused from losing control of the vehicle. people just need to learn to drive better and respect the laws of physics.
people actually get more careless when they have stability/traction control and don't pay attention and assume the car will just drive itself or something.
07-21-2009, 02:24 PM
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I have to agree. I love how suddenly the same crash tests that were previously recorded, are run again, suddenly gets lower scores. Why, because another vehicle suddenly scores higher, that is the reason IIHS will downgrade the tC to a lower rating? That doesn't make sense. I thought these scores were benched marked off a pre-determined set of scores, not off each other, on how well a selection of cars fares. It's like a loaded car show where a stock car will beat a fully customed, because the stock car's judges were his/her friends!
07-21-2009, 05:31 PM
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I would actually prefer that the crash test results are dynamic. Otherwise, it will come a point that most, if not all vehicles will rate 4 or 5 star. Why not make the testing standards more difficult? Make 5-star the A+ in that very difficult class that nobody gets an A in... If a car should reach five star it should get great recognition for its safety.
Just my .02!
Just my .02!
07-21-2009, 05:52 PM
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Dynamic is onething, but to change ratings based on a competitor's scoring, but not changing theactual benchmarks? Come on. The benchmark scoring should be consistant, accross the board. From waht was said it does not say that the bench mark changed, but it seemed to impy that tC's ranking was changed, based on the Volvo C30 and Ford's Focus' scores. That's like changing someone's GPA 3.8 to 2.8 because another person, who usually doesn't do as well as you, stepped up his/her game to 3.9, even though you still scored well, based on your accedemics. Does that make sense? BTW the C30 is not a coupe, nomatter what they say, That's like saying the Yaris 3door Hatchback is a coupe.
07-21-2009, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by niran916
I say that VSC would have been a great feature that the Tc should have standard. Now even the Xd will have it standard.
stability controls do have a time and place on cars, for instance, corvettes, 300-400+bhp can easily get away from you should you accidentally give the car too much throttle. or when a car has a rediculous amount of power and mass, like my brother's CLS550. 382 bhp, 4100 pound curb weight, and 7 speed manual transmissions. i was driving it home with him in the passenger switch, and he turned if off when i came to a stop sign, and the moment i tried to move away from the stop, the car just started smoking the rear tires. i'm sure if i drove the car more, i could get the hang of being easy on the throttle,
but in my tc, both stock and now supercharged has never once made me wish it had some electronic nanny thinking that it knows how to drive the car better than i do.
07-21-2009, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by draxcaliber
Originally Posted by niran916
I say that VSC would have been a great feature that the Tc should have standard. Now even the Xd will have it standard.
stability controls do have a time and place on cars, for instance, corvettes, 300-400+bhp can easily get away from you should you accidentally give the car too much throttle. or when a car has a rediculous amount of power and mass, like my brother's CLS550. 382 bhp, 4100 pound curb weight, and 7 speed manual transmissions. i was driving it home with him in the passenger switch, and he turned if off when i came to a stop sign, and the moment i tried to move away from the stop, the car just started smoking the rear tires. i'm sure if i drove the car more, i could get the hang of being easy on the throttle,
but in my tc, both stock and now supercharged has never once made me wish it had some electronic nanny thinking that it knows how to drive the car better than i do.
07-22-2009, 03:48 AM
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i was illustrating the point. in a much more powerful car, it is easy to overwhelm the tires and get alot of wheelspin.
also, i was making a left hand turn from the stop sign with a car approaching from the right, so i was giving it a bit more throttle to pull out and get up to speed asap. why my brother picked then to disable the traction control and jeopardize his car if all did was fishtail the car into the path of another car, i'll never know. but i regained control with steady throttle modulation and completed it without incident. also, it was my first time driving the car.
and trust me, if i can handle a c4 corvette in the rain without problems, drive a ford explorer through a blizzard at 70 mph on the interstate, and drift my diesel riding lawn mower while cutting the grass, i have demonstrated enough driving ability to keep my license.
also, i was making a left hand turn from the stop sign with a car approaching from the right, so i was giving it a bit more throttle to pull out and get up to speed asap. why my brother picked then to disable the traction control and jeopardize his car if all did was fishtail the car into the path of another car, i'll never know. but i regained control with steady throttle modulation and completed it without incident. also, it was my first time driving the car.
and trust me, if i can handle a c4 corvette in the rain without problems, drive a ford explorer through a blizzard at 70 mph on the interstate, and drift my diesel riding lawn mower while cutting the grass, i have demonstrated enough driving ability to keep my license.
07-22-2009, 04:05 AM
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VSC and traction control are lame (and only somewhat effective) crutches for improper driving. Not to mention a horrible obstacle for any sort of performance driving (like autox, track days, etc). Unfortunately, they will be mandated, without a disable feature, on cars in the near future.
I will be adding a disable feature for the VSC/Trac on our 01 4Runner. It has nearly put me backwards in a ditch twice on the ice because it would not let me do what needed to be done to straighten the truck out. And unfortunately on it you can only disable it by locking the center diff.. not so great on the street obviously. I am making it completely bypassable.
I will be adding a disable feature for the VSC/Trac on our 01 4Runner. It has nearly put me backwards in a ditch twice on the ice because it would not let me do what needed to be done to straighten the truck out. And unfortunately on it you can only disable it by locking the center diff.. not so great on the street obviously. I am making it completely bypassable.
07-22-2009, 05:29 AM
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First of all... stability control is a great feature that gives drivers an added bit of security and invaluable confidence when driving in inclement weather.
Second of all... Ive worked at a Mercedes Benz Dealer for over 3 years and can personally attest to the fact that the CLS550 you drove was not equipped with a manual transmission (in fact mercedes does not sell ANY V-8 powered vehicle with a manual transmission in the United States). The 7-speed you drove was most definitely an automatic. And furthermore... the CLS is equipped with an un defeatable version of stability control (the vehicle must be put into dyno mode in order for it to be disabled (an impossible feat while stopped at a stop sign or street light)
And finally... The C4 corvette SUCKED. Most years produced it generated less than 300bhp and had a lame 6.3 second 0-60 time... My Grandma's Toyota Avalon would have been showing that vette its taillights.
Second of all... Ive worked at a Mercedes Benz Dealer for over 3 years and can personally attest to the fact that the CLS550 you drove was not equipped with a manual transmission (in fact mercedes does not sell ANY V-8 powered vehicle with a manual transmission in the United States). The 7-speed you drove was most definitely an automatic. And furthermore... the CLS is equipped with an un defeatable version of stability control (the vehicle must be put into dyno mode in order for it to be disabled (an impossible feat while stopped at a stop sign or street light)
And finally... The C4 corvette SUCKED. Most years produced it generated less than 300bhp and had a lame 6.3 second 0-60 time... My Grandma's Toyota Avalon would have been showing that vette its taillights.
07-22-2009, 05:46 AM
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sorry, yeah, the cls has a 7 speed manumatic transmission i meant.
but the vette we have is a 1995 corvette, it has the 300 bhp 5.7 liter engine (my dad also have a 2001 corvette.) but trust me, that car is no slouch, all that power in a fairly light rear wheel drive car. also, your mom's avalon is fwd, and while toyotas new 3.5 liter v6 is a very good engine, it won't be schooling a corvette round the track. period. 0-60 is 6.6 seconds according to car and driver on the lasted avalon. not saying that the c4 corvette is the greatest sports car ever made. it was a developed in the last 70's/early 80's, it originally had 205 bhp cross fire injection engine, and it's brakes are unbelievably numb!but trust me, that car has a good amount of umph to throw you back in your seats.
and no, the CLS does have partially defeatible traction control, that will come back on if it gets too outta control.
my point is this, in a car with lots of power, it is easier to give too much throttle and overwhelm the tires. in little front wheel drive econoboxes, if you are overwhelming the tires, you are making a deliberate effort.
but the vette we have is a 1995 corvette, it has the 300 bhp 5.7 liter engine (my dad also have a 2001 corvette.) but trust me, that car is no slouch, all that power in a fairly light rear wheel drive car. also, your mom's avalon is fwd, and while toyotas new 3.5 liter v6 is a very good engine, it won't be schooling a corvette round the track. period. 0-60 is 6.6 seconds according to car and driver on the lasted avalon. not saying that the c4 corvette is the greatest sports car ever made. it was a developed in the last 70's/early 80's, it originally had 205 bhp cross fire injection engine, and it's brakes are unbelievably numb!but trust me, that car has a good amount of umph to throw you back in your seats.
and no, the CLS does have partially defeatible traction control, that will come back on if it gets too outta control.
my point is this, in a car with lots of power, it is easier to give too much throttle and overwhelm the tires. in little front wheel drive econoboxes, if you are overwhelming the tires, you are making a deliberate effort.
07-22-2009, 08:30 AM
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Driving would be so much safer if you could take out the 'human' element.
While technology has improved drivingin many ways, there are too many cars (or is it drivers) that have been spoiled under the guise of safety.
While technology has improved drivingin many ways, there are too many cars (or is it drivers) that have been spoiled under the guise of safety.
07-22-2009, 10:28 AM
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You're thinking of the NHTSA's tests, not the IIHS'
Originally Posted by draxcaliber
yeah, the tc has 4 out of 5 stars in all previous crash tests i remember when i got it. so suddenly it has gotten worse?
however, i think a vast majority of the people who have totalled their tc's and walked away can say that the tc did a great job protecting them. so whatever.
however, i think a vast majority of the people who have totalled their tc's and walked away can say that the tc did a great job protecting them. so whatever.
IIHS = Insurance Institute for Highway Safety - sponsored by insurance companies
The IIHS uses a Good/Acceptable/Marginal/Poor rating system, and tests for side-impact, offset frontal crash (matches European tests), rear crash and roof strength (in a rollover).
NHTSA = National Highway Traffic Safety Administration - federal department
The NHTSA tests for side impact and frontal crash as well as rollover potential, and use a 5-star rating system.
The article refers to the IIHS, where the 2005-2009 MY tC showed a marginal rear-crash result. You can see the comparison of all the Scion models' results for rear crash tests here.
You can also see the other results (besides the rear-crash) of the tC, the xB, and the xD models.
And just for kicks, here's the results of rear-crash tests on Kia and Hyundai.
07-22-2009, 02:45 PM
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people actually get more careless when they have stability/traction control and don't pay attention and assume the car will just drive itself or something.
It has nearly put me backwards in a ditch twice on the ice because it would not let me do what needed to be done to straighten the truck out.
okay, seriously, VSC is LAME! look, you do not need stability control on a 4 cyl econobox. if you can't handle a front wheel drive car with less than 200 bhp without VSC, then you are a hack who shouldn't have a driver's license.
i was driving it home with him in the passenger switch, and he turned if off when i came to a stop sign, and the moment i tried to move away from the stop, the car just started smoking the rear tires.
People -- especially Americans -- tend to get very defensive about their cars and their ability to drive them. However, I'll put it in a different context for you: Suppose you had a son or daughter who just turned 16 and is getting their first car... after finding out that stability control will reduce their chance of dying in a single vehicle crash by 51%, would you still argue against it?