Nitrous FAQ, Top 10 mistakes, and a Jet Calculator
08-04-2005, 01:12 PM
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Nitrous FAQ, Top 10 mistakes, and a Jet Calculator
Here's a nice little article taken off of http://members.aol.com/agspeed/nos.htm Saved myself some writing, but I will however, make my own additions to this and mark them in italics. ENJOY.
How Does Nitrous Oxide Work?
There are three points. First, nitrous oxide is comprised of 2 parts nitrogen and one part oxygen (36% oxygen by weight). *This is why you will commonly see it referred to as N2O when typed out on message boards and the like* When the nitrous oxide is heated to approximately 572oF (on compression stroke), it breaks down and release extra oxygen, However, it is not this oxygen alone which creates additional power, but the ability of this oxygen to burn more fuel. By burning more fuel, higher cylinder pressures are created and this is where most of the additional power is realized. Secondly, as pressurized nitrous oxide is injected into the intake manifold, it changes from a liquid to a gas (boils). This boiling affect reduces the temperature of the nitrous to a minus .127 Degrees F. This "cooling affect" in turn significantly reduces intake charge temperatures by approximately 60-75 Degrees F. This also helps create additional power. A general rule of thumb: For every 10 Degrees F. reduction in intake charge temperature, a 1% increase in power will be realized. Example: A 350 HP engine with an intake temperature drop of 70 Degrees F, would gain approximately 25 HP on the cooling affect alone. The third point, the nitrogen that was also released during the compression stroke performs an important role. Nitrogen acts to "buff or dampen" the increased cylinder pressures leading to a controlled combustion process. *This is not to be mistaken with bottle pressure (measured in PSi) Which I will further explain later if it is not covered here*
Why Nitrous?
Nitrous oxide injection has become a very popular option for today's performance enthusiast for several reasons:
Nitrous offers you more performance per dollar spent, than any other performance modification.
Nitrous installations are relatively easy to accomplish.
Since Nitrous is used only when needed, it offers you the advantages of complete driveability and normal gas mileage while not "on the button."
Systems available for virtually any power need from 25 HP to over 500 extra HP.
One of the few performance options available for today's computer controlled, fuel injected engines.
Systems can easily be removed or transferred to another vehicle.
*Nitrous is also considered "instant torque" so to speak. When you're "on the button" the throttle response will be immediate as opposed to the lag one might encounter in turbo-charged setups*
Q: Will Nitrous affect engine reliability?
A: The key is choosing the correct H.P. for a given application. *Note that jet sizes (fuel and n2o) will vary depending on your application / car. Although some applications tend to be capable of holding a larger shot, some are not and you should always do your research prior to selecting this. See the following question for more info.* A kit that uses the correct factory calibration does not usually cause increased wear. As the energy released in the cylinder increases so do the loads on the various components that must handle them. If the load increases exceed the ability of the component to handle them, added wear takes place. NOS kits are designed for use on demand and only at wide open throttle. Nitrous can be extremeny advantageous i that it is only used when you want it, not all the time. All NOS kits are designed for maximum power with reliability for a given application.
Q: Can I simply bolt a nitrous kit onto my stock engine?
A: Yes, NOS/NX/ZEX/Venom manufacture systems for virtually any stock engine application. The key is to choose the correct kit for a given application; i.e., 4 cyl. engines normally allow an extra 40-60 HP*(and sometimes upto 75-100)*, 6 cyl. engines usually work great between 75-100 extra HP, small block V8's (302/350/400cid) can typically accept up to 140 extra HP, and big block V8's (427/454) might accept from 125-200 extra HP. These suggested ranges provide maximum reliability from most stock engines using cast pistons and cast crank with few or no engine modifications. *Note that when we refer to a 50 shot, or 60 shot, this is a general measurement for the amount of Wheel Horsepower (WHP) the shot will yield. In most cases, it is safe to assume that a 50 shot will yield 50WHP, a 60 shot will yield 60WHP and so on and so forth. However, in some applications (for example turbo charged applications that are ALSO running n2o) these figures may vary with the shot generally yielding more WHP than noted*
Q: What are some of the general rules for even higher H.P. gains?
A: Generally, forged aluminum pistons are one of the best modifications you can make. Retard ignition timing by 4-8 degrees (1 to 1½ degrees timing retard per 50 H.P. gain). In many cases a higher flowing fuel pump may be necessary. Higher octane (100+) racing type fuel may be required as well as spark plugs 1 to 2 heat ranges colder than normal with gaps closed to .025"-.030". *It is important to note that the best plugs said to be used for n2o applications are copper plugs. Iridium and others tend not to mix well with nitrous*For gains over 250 H.P., other important modifications could be necessary in addition to those mentioned above. These special modifications may include a forged crankshaft, a high quality race type connecting rod, a high output fuel pump dedicated to feeding the additional fuel demands of the nitrous system, and a racing fuel with high specific gravity and an octane rating of 110 or more. *Please don't ever underestimate the importance of fuel when it relates to any forced induction application. A GOOD investment would also be to attain an air fuel gauge (widebands being the absolute best) so that you may monitor whether or not your car is leaning out. Some more advanced nitrous systems (like the VENOM kit) will automatically shut off the n2o when it reads you are running lean. (This is because this system usually taps into your O2 sensor).*
Q: How much performance improvement can I expect with a nitrous system?
A: For many applications an improvement from 1 to 3 full seconds and 10 to 15 MPH in the quarter mile can be expected. Factors such as engine size, tires, jetting, gearing, etc. will effect the final results. *It is a general rule of thumb, as aforementioned, that the WHP gained will be equivalent to that of the size of "shot" of nitrous that you are using. Please refer to my other comments above*
Q: How long will the bottle last?
A: This largely depends on the type of nitrous kit and jetting used. For example, a 125 HP Power Shot kit with a standard 10 lb. capacity bottle will usually offer up to 7 to 10 full quarter-mile passes. For power levels of 250 HP, 3 to 5 full quarter-mile passes may be expected. If nitrous is only used in 2nd and 3rd gears, the number of runs will be more. *Also note that if you are running a purge kit, and using it, then you will also lose n2o this way*
Q: How long can I hold the nitrous button down?
A: It is possible to hold the button down until the bottle is empty. However 15 continuous seconds at a time, or less, is recommend. *In other words, no longer than 15 seconds at a time. This is particularly important, but usually never occurs since most races do not last this long. In addition to this, it must be noted that spraying in 5th Gear is also very much discouraged. 5th gear is not made to handle such large amounts of load on the motor and spraying in 5th has been known to cause many setups to "blow up". Also....try your best not to hit fuel cut (aka the rev limiter) while you are spraying. Rev limiter / Fuel cut will cut fuel to your motor and WILL make you detonate. Don't miss gears either especially if you are a power shifter.*
Q: When is the best time to use nitrous?
A: At wide open throttle only (unless a progressive controller is used). Due to the tremendous amount of increased torque, you will generally find best results, traction permitting, at early activation. Nitrous can be safely applied above 2,500 RPM under full throttle conditions. *You can, technically launch with your nitrous activated. Just be careful not to hit WOT during this time, until you have gained traction, otherwise you will not leave the "hole" and are most likely to bog out.There are products than u can get to help "idiot" proof your n2o kit like a Window switch. MSD sells one that allows u to literally choose between how many RPM's the n2o will spray and stop spraying (for example between 3k and 6k.)*
Q: Will I have to rejet my carburetor on my car when adding nitrous?
A: No! The NOS system is independent of your carburetor and injects its own mixture of fuel and nitrous.
Q: Is nitrous oxide flammable?
A: No. Nitrous oxide by itself is non-flammable. However, the oxygen present in nitrous oxide causes combustion of fuel to take place more rapidly.
Q: Will nitrous oxide cause detonation?
A: Not directly. Detonation is the result of too little fuel present during combustion (lean) or too low of an octane of fuel. Too much ignition advance also causes detonation. In general, most kits engineered for stock type engines will work well with premium type fuels and minimal decreases of ignition timing. In racing applications where higher compression ratios are used, resulting in higher cylinder pressures, a higher fuel octane must be used as well as more ignition retard.
Q: Where can I get my bottle refilled?
A: There are many performance shops that can refill your nitrous bottle generally for around $20-$25.
Q: Is there any performance increase in using medical grade nitrous oxide?
A: None! NOS recommends and sells only the automotive grade, called Ny-trous Plus. Ny-trous Plus contains a minimal amount of sulfur dioxide (100 ppm) as a deterrent to substance abuse. The additive does not affect performance.
Q: Is it a good idea to use an aftermarket computer chip in conjunction with an NOS System?
A: Only if the chip had been designed specifically for use with nitrous oxide. Most aftermarket chips use more aggressive timing advance curves to create more power. This can lead to potential detonation. You may wish to check with the manufacturer of the chip before using it. The top manufacturers, such as Hypertech do make special chips for use with nitrous.
Q: How long does it generally take to install an NOS kit?
A: The majority of kits can be installed using common hand tools in approximately 3 to 5 hours. Instruction manuals are by far the best in the industry; and include specific installation drawings, wiring diagrams, and bottle mounting procedures as well as performance tips and a thorough trouble shooting guide. *Note that some kits (like the VENOM kit) will require much more wiring during installation. Electronic kits will more than often wire up to your injectors, and o2 sensor, thereby prolonging the process*
Q: Which type of manifold is better suited for a plate injector type of nitrous system, single or dual plane manifold?
A: As long as he manifold doesn't interfere with the spray pattern of the bars, either will work fine in most cases. The distribution is better with a single plane at high RPM. If your goal is to increase power by more than 200 HP, the single plane manifold is better.
Q: Does nitrous oxide raise cylinder pressures and temperatures?
A: Yes. Due to the ability to burn more fuel, this is exactly why nitrous makes so much power.
Q: Are there any benefits to chilling the nitrous bottle?
A: No. Chilling the bottle lowers the pressure dramatically and will also lower the flow rate of the nitrous causing a fuel rich condition and reducing power. On cold evenings you might run on the rich side. For optimal running conditions, keep bottle pressure at approximately 800-900 psi. *This is where a bottle warmer comes in handy. Note that most N2O refill stations will chill the bottle prior to filling it. Warming it up will increase the pressure. I believe the highest psi that should be used is 10000psi. You can always opt for a bottle warmer for this purpose.*NOS has a nitrous pressure gauge that allows you to monitor this. If you live or operate a nitrous system in colder climates, it may also be a good idea to purchase a bottle heater kit, part #14161. Generally, ambient temperatures of 70-90 degrees F. will allow for best power potential of NOS kits.
Q: Are there benefits to using nitrous with turbo or supercharger applications?
A: Absolutely! In turbo applications, turbo lag is completely eliminated with the addition of a nitrous system. In addition, both turbo and superchargers compress the incoming air, thus heating it. With the injection of nitrous, a tremendous intercooling effect reduces intake charge temperatures by 75 degrees or more. Boost is usually increased as well; adding to even more power.*see...told ya *
Q: What effect does nitrous have on an engine with considerable miles on it?
A: This depends largely on the actual condition of the engine components. Any performance modification to an engine that is worn out or poorly tuned will have detrimental effects. However, an engine in good condition, with good ring and head gasket sealing, should be able to use nitrous without any abnormal wear.
Q: Will the use of nitrous oxide affect the catalytic converter?
A: No. The increase in oxygen present in the exhaust may actually increase the efficiency of the converter. Since the use of nitrous is normally limited to 10-20 seconds of continuous use, there usually are no appreciable effects. Temperatures are typically well within acceptable standards.
Q: Will the percentage of performance increase be the same in a highly modified engine compared to a stock engine when using the same NOS kit and jetting?
A: Not really. In most cases the percentage of increase is greater from a stock engine because it is not as efficient as the modified engine in a normal non-nitrous mode. However, since the effects of nitrous oxide magnify the output of any engine, the total power output will be much higher in the modified engine.
Q: Can high compression engines utilize nitrous oxide?
A: Absolutely. High or low compression ratios can work quite suitably with nitrous oxide provided the proper balance of nitrous and fuel enrichment is maintained. NOS kits are used in applications from relatively low compression stock type motors to Pro-Modifieds, which often exceed 15 to 1. Generally, the higher the compression ratio, the more ignition retard, as well as higher octane fuel, is required. For more specific information talk to one of our technicians.
Q: Can service station fuel be used for street/strip nitrous oxide applications?
A: Yes. Use of a premium type leaded or unleaded fuel of 92, or greater, octance is recommended for most applications. Many NOS systems are designed for use with service station pump gas. However, when higher compression or higher horsepower levels are used, a racing fuel of 100 octane, or more, must be used.
Q: What type of cam is best suited for use with nitrous oxide?
A: Generally, cams that have more exhaust overlap and duration. However, it is best to choose a cam tailored to normal use (when nitrous is not activated) since 99% of most vehicle operation is not at full throttle. There are special cam grinds available for nitrous competition which have more aggressive exhaust profiles etc. Since cam selection depends largely on vehicle weight, gearing, etc., it is best to stick to cam manufacturer's recommendations for your particular goal.
Q: What type of nitrous system is better; a plate injection system or a direct port injection system?
A: The advantages of a plate system are ease of installation and removal, ability to transfer easily to another vehicle, ability to change jetting combinations quickly, and, in most cases, provide you with all the extra HP you will ever need (75 to 350 more HP). In some cases, such as in-line type engines with long runners, a direct port type system is advisable for maximizing distribution. *better more even fuel across the board*Also, where more than 350 HP is needed, our direct port Fogger systems will provide the ultimate in distribution and power (up to 500+ HP). Direct port injection is also desirable when the system is hidden under the manifold.
Q: Should I modify my fuel system to use nitrous oxide?
A: Most stock fuel pumps will work adequately for smaller nitrous applications. It is important to check to see if your pump can flow enough fuel to your existing fuel system (whether carburetor or fuel injected), as well as being able to supply the additional fuel required by the nitrous kit under full throttle conditions. It may be a good idea to dedicate a separate fuel pump to the nitrous kit.
Q: Which is the best position to mount a nitrous bottle?
A: N2Obottles come with siphon tubes and, in order to maintain proper nitrous pickup, it is important to mount the bottle correctly. It is recommend mounting the bottle at a 15 degree angle with the valve end higher than the bottom of the bottle. The valve end of the bottle should point to the front of the vehicle and the valve **** and label should face straight up.
Q: How important is it to use nitrous and fuel filters in a kit?
A: Some of the most important components of any nitrous system are nitrous and fuel filters that keep contaminants from attacking the solenoid or plugging up a jet. A stuck solenoid means trouble!
Q: What are the advantages of using nitrous compared to other performance options?
A: The cost of many other performance options can put you in the poorhouse. Dollar for dollar, you can't buy more performance with less money than nitrous. With a nitrous system, performance and reliability can be had for a much more reasonable price while retaining the advantages of a stock engine during normal driving. And, nitrous offers tremendous gains in torque without having to rev the engine to excessive rpm's. These factors help your engine last longer than many other methods of boosting horsepower.
Q: How do I know how much nitrous is left in the bottle?
A: The most reliable way is to weigh the bottle to determine how many pounds remain. When a bottle is near empty (about 20% or less nitrous remaining) a surging effect is normally felt.
Q: What is the function of the blow-off safety valve on the bottle?
A: It is very importent not to overfill a bottle; i.e., a 10 lb. capacity bottle should not be filled with more than 10 lb. of nitrous oxide by weight. Over-filling and/or too much heat can cause excessive bottle pressures forcing the safety seal to blow and releasing all the contents out of the bottle.
Q:Will I have to change my ignition system?
A: Most late model ignition systems are well suited for nitrous applications. In some higher HP cases, it may be advisable to look into a high quality high output ignition system.
OKieeeeee...i think that about does it. There's alot more that I can write regarding n2o accessories such as purge valves, bigger solenoids, remote bottle openers, fuel management, etc. But my fingers are kinda tired and I'll post here or edit this post later. ..........
Edit: I'm back. With a little info on some "optional" parts that you can purchase w/your N2O kits and their purpose.
Bottle Warmer/Blanket: This is a heated blanket that wraps (or rather straps, with velcro) around your bottle. When switched on it will warm up the bottle, expand the contents and thus increase the amount of PSi inside the bottle. Reason you might want to use it? Most people tend to like to run their pressure somewhere between 9 and 12 (thousand) psi. Most of these bottle warmer kits run on a relay. I've found most of these relays to become defective after a while. I find the easiest way is to bypass the relay, hook it up directly to a switch and just watch the pressure via an in cabin gauge. It can get risky though if you don't watch that pressure.
Purge System: It's how you see that famous white plume of n2o sometimes. It actually servese a purpose other than announcing you're spraying, believe it or not! LoL The purpose of a purge is to remove / clear your lines of any gaseous air from your main feed line. It does not necessarily have to be positioned somewhere where you can observe the white plume, although it is indicative that all is clear to go. Some people opt to position the purge towards the solenoids in order to cool them. A fairly cheap addition to your n2o kit.
In cabin gauges: First understand there are 2 types of gauges. Electical and mechanical. Electrical are fairly easier to install, but depend on your electric system, therefore any malfunction...well you know the rest. They are supposedly calibrated in the same fashion, but some say one is more accurate than the other. Your best bet is to research a little on this. I've always used mechanical and haven't had any issues. An in cabin gauge is mostly for convenience / tuning purposes. As in you don't have to run to your trunk to check the gauge on the bottle, and as in if you have ur warmer connected to a direct switch you can know when to shut it off w/out standing by the bottle watchin the pressure rise.
Remote bottle openers: Super convenient but have been known to not work as well the longer you have them. Remote bottle openers (obviously) hook on to the top of your bottle where you open and close it. This means, every time you take your bottle to get filled, you gotta remove it, and replace it once u put the bottle back in your car. I've noted w/alot of users that wear and tear causes it not to fully open / close the bottle at times. This could vary from person to person. It's convenient because, u don't have to run to the back of the car or reach behind ur seat to open and/or close the bottle. N2O at the flick of a switch!
Window/RPM switches: Most popular that I know of are the MSD window switches. Basically what this item allows you to do is control between what and what RPM you want to spray. For example if you would like to spray between 3500 and 7200 rpms, then you would buy the pack of "pills" that contain these rpm's. Some people worry about hitting rev limiter, etc. etc, or spraying too low in the rpm band. This would be a perfect "added safety measure" for those that worry about, for lack of a better term, going kaboom. Again, an added safety measure and you don't really NEEEEED this, unless you're scared and want some extra safety. IIRC (correct me if i'm wrong), these can be used in combination w/a throttle switch.
Hope some of that helps!
How Does Nitrous Oxide Work?
There are three points. First, nitrous oxide is comprised of 2 parts nitrogen and one part oxygen (36% oxygen by weight). *This is why you will commonly see it referred to as N2O when typed out on message boards and the like* When the nitrous oxide is heated to approximately 572oF (on compression stroke), it breaks down and release extra oxygen, However, it is not this oxygen alone which creates additional power, but the ability of this oxygen to burn more fuel. By burning more fuel, higher cylinder pressures are created and this is where most of the additional power is realized. Secondly, as pressurized nitrous oxide is injected into the intake manifold, it changes from a liquid to a gas (boils). This boiling affect reduces the temperature of the nitrous to a minus .127 Degrees F. This "cooling affect" in turn significantly reduces intake charge temperatures by approximately 60-75 Degrees F. This also helps create additional power. A general rule of thumb: For every 10 Degrees F. reduction in intake charge temperature, a 1% increase in power will be realized. Example: A 350 HP engine with an intake temperature drop of 70 Degrees F, would gain approximately 25 HP on the cooling affect alone. The third point, the nitrogen that was also released during the compression stroke performs an important role. Nitrogen acts to "buff or dampen" the increased cylinder pressures leading to a controlled combustion process. *This is not to be mistaken with bottle pressure (measured in PSi) Which I will further explain later if it is not covered here*
Why Nitrous?
Nitrous oxide injection has become a very popular option for today's performance enthusiast for several reasons:
Nitrous offers you more performance per dollar spent, than any other performance modification.
Nitrous installations are relatively easy to accomplish.
Since Nitrous is used only when needed, it offers you the advantages of complete driveability and normal gas mileage while not "on the button."
Systems available for virtually any power need from 25 HP to over 500 extra HP.
One of the few performance options available for today's computer controlled, fuel injected engines.
Systems can easily be removed or transferred to another vehicle.
*Nitrous is also considered "instant torque" so to speak. When you're "on the button" the throttle response will be immediate as opposed to the lag one might encounter in turbo-charged setups*
Q: Will Nitrous affect engine reliability?
A: The key is choosing the correct H.P. for a given application. *Note that jet sizes (fuel and n2o) will vary depending on your application / car. Although some applications tend to be capable of holding a larger shot, some are not and you should always do your research prior to selecting this. See the following question for more info.* A kit that uses the correct factory calibration does not usually cause increased wear. As the energy released in the cylinder increases so do the loads on the various components that must handle them. If the load increases exceed the ability of the component to handle them, added wear takes place. NOS kits are designed for use on demand and only at wide open throttle. Nitrous can be extremeny advantageous i that it is only used when you want it, not all the time. All NOS kits are designed for maximum power with reliability for a given application.
Q: Can I simply bolt a nitrous kit onto my stock engine?
A: Yes, NOS/NX/ZEX/Venom manufacture systems for virtually any stock engine application. The key is to choose the correct kit for a given application; i.e., 4 cyl. engines normally allow an extra 40-60 HP*(and sometimes upto 75-100)*, 6 cyl. engines usually work great between 75-100 extra HP, small block V8's (302/350/400cid) can typically accept up to 140 extra HP, and big block V8's (427/454) might accept from 125-200 extra HP. These suggested ranges provide maximum reliability from most stock engines using cast pistons and cast crank with few or no engine modifications. *Note that when we refer to a 50 shot, or 60 shot, this is a general measurement for the amount of Wheel Horsepower (WHP) the shot will yield. In most cases, it is safe to assume that a 50 shot will yield 50WHP, a 60 shot will yield 60WHP and so on and so forth. However, in some applications (for example turbo charged applications that are ALSO running n2o) these figures may vary with the shot generally yielding more WHP than noted*
Q: What are some of the general rules for even higher H.P. gains?
A: Generally, forged aluminum pistons are one of the best modifications you can make. Retard ignition timing by 4-8 degrees (1 to 1½ degrees timing retard per 50 H.P. gain). In many cases a higher flowing fuel pump may be necessary. Higher octane (100+) racing type fuel may be required as well as spark plugs 1 to 2 heat ranges colder than normal with gaps closed to .025"-.030". *It is important to note that the best plugs said to be used for n2o applications are copper plugs. Iridium and others tend not to mix well with nitrous*For gains over 250 H.P., other important modifications could be necessary in addition to those mentioned above. These special modifications may include a forged crankshaft, a high quality race type connecting rod, a high output fuel pump dedicated to feeding the additional fuel demands of the nitrous system, and a racing fuel with high specific gravity and an octane rating of 110 or more. *Please don't ever underestimate the importance of fuel when it relates to any forced induction application. A GOOD investment would also be to attain an air fuel gauge (widebands being the absolute best) so that you may monitor whether or not your car is leaning out. Some more advanced nitrous systems (like the VENOM kit) will automatically shut off the n2o when it reads you are running lean. (This is because this system usually taps into your O2 sensor).*
Q: How much performance improvement can I expect with a nitrous system?
A: For many applications an improvement from 1 to 3 full seconds and 10 to 15 MPH in the quarter mile can be expected. Factors such as engine size, tires, jetting, gearing, etc. will effect the final results. *It is a general rule of thumb, as aforementioned, that the WHP gained will be equivalent to that of the size of "shot" of nitrous that you are using. Please refer to my other comments above*
Q: How long will the bottle last?
A: This largely depends on the type of nitrous kit and jetting used. For example, a 125 HP Power Shot kit with a standard 10 lb. capacity bottle will usually offer up to 7 to 10 full quarter-mile passes. For power levels of 250 HP, 3 to 5 full quarter-mile passes may be expected. If nitrous is only used in 2nd and 3rd gears, the number of runs will be more. *Also note that if you are running a purge kit, and using it, then you will also lose n2o this way*
Q: How long can I hold the nitrous button down?
A: It is possible to hold the button down until the bottle is empty. However 15 continuous seconds at a time, or less, is recommend. *In other words, no longer than 15 seconds at a time. This is particularly important, but usually never occurs since most races do not last this long. In addition to this, it must be noted that spraying in 5th Gear is also very much discouraged. 5th gear is not made to handle such large amounts of load on the motor and spraying in 5th has been known to cause many setups to "blow up". Also....try your best not to hit fuel cut (aka the rev limiter) while you are spraying. Rev limiter / Fuel cut will cut fuel to your motor and WILL make you detonate. Don't miss gears either especially if you are a power shifter.*
Q: When is the best time to use nitrous?
A: At wide open throttle only (unless a progressive controller is used). Due to the tremendous amount of increased torque, you will generally find best results, traction permitting, at early activation. Nitrous can be safely applied above 2,500 RPM under full throttle conditions. *You can, technically launch with your nitrous activated. Just be careful not to hit WOT during this time, until you have gained traction, otherwise you will not leave the "hole" and are most likely to bog out.There are products than u can get to help "idiot" proof your n2o kit like a Window switch. MSD sells one that allows u to literally choose between how many RPM's the n2o will spray and stop spraying (for example between 3k and 6k.)*
Q: Will I have to rejet my carburetor on my car when adding nitrous?
A: No! The NOS system is independent of your carburetor and injects its own mixture of fuel and nitrous.
Q: Is nitrous oxide flammable?
A: No. Nitrous oxide by itself is non-flammable. However, the oxygen present in nitrous oxide causes combustion of fuel to take place more rapidly.
Q: Will nitrous oxide cause detonation?
A: Not directly. Detonation is the result of too little fuel present during combustion (lean) or too low of an octane of fuel. Too much ignition advance also causes detonation. In general, most kits engineered for stock type engines will work well with premium type fuels and minimal decreases of ignition timing. In racing applications where higher compression ratios are used, resulting in higher cylinder pressures, a higher fuel octane must be used as well as more ignition retard.
Q: Where can I get my bottle refilled?
A: There are many performance shops that can refill your nitrous bottle generally for around $20-$25.
Q: Is there any performance increase in using medical grade nitrous oxide?
A: None! NOS recommends and sells only the automotive grade, called Ny-trous Plus. Ny-trous Plus contains a minimal amount of sulfur dioxide (100 ppm) as a deterrent to substance abuse. The additive does not affect performance.
Q: Is it a good idea to use an aftermarket computer chip in conjunction with an NOS System?
A: Only if the chip had been designed specifically for use with nitrous oxide. Most aftermarket chips use more aggressive timing advance curves to create more power. This can lead to potential detonation. You may wish to check with the manufacturer of the chip before using it. The top manufacturers, such as Hypertech do make special chips for use with nitrous.
Q: How long does it generally take to install an NOS kit?
A: The majority of kits can be installed using common hand tools in approximately 3 to 5 hours. Instruction manuals are by far the best in the industry; and include specific installation drawings, wiring diagrams, and bottle mounting procedures as well as performance tips and a thorough trouble shooting guide. *Note that some kits (like the VENOM kit) will require much more wiring during installation. Electronic kits will more than often wire up to your injectors, and o2 sensor, thereby prolonging the process*
Q: Which type of manifold is better suited for a plate injector type of nitrous system, single or dual plane manifold?
A: As long as he manifold doesn't interfere with the spray pattern of the bars, either will work fine in most cases. The distribution is better with a single plane at high RPM. If your goal is to increase power by more than 200 HP, the single plane manifold is better.
Q: Does nitrous oxide raise cylinder pressures and temperatures?
A: Yes. Due to the ability to burn more fuel, this is exactly why nitrous makes so much power.
Q: Are there any benefits to chilling the nitrous bottle?
A: No. Chilling the bottle lowers the pressure dramatically and will also lower the flow rate of the nitrous causing a fuel rich condition and reducing power. On cold evenings you might run on the rich side. For optimal running conditions, keep bottle pressure at approximately 800-900 psi. *This is where a bottle warmer comes in handy. Note that most N2O refill stations will chill the bottle prior to filling it. Warming it up will increase the pressure. I believe the highest psi that should be used is 10000psi. You can always opt for a bottle warmer for this purpose.*NOS has a nitrous pressure gauge that allows you to monitor this. If you live or operate a nitrous system in colder climates, it may also be a good idea to purchase a bottle heater kit, part #14161. Generally, ambient temperatures of 70-90 degrees F. will allow for best power potential of NOS kits.
Q: Are there benefits to using nitrous with turbo or supercharger applications?
A: Absolutely! In turbo applications, turbo lag is completely eliminated with the addition of a nitrous system. In addition, both turbo and superchargers compress the incoming air, thus heating it. With the injection of nitrous, a tremendous intercooling effect reduces intake charge temperatures by 75 degrees or more. Boost is usually increased as well; adding to even more power.*see...told ya *
Q: What effect does nitrous have on an engine with considerable miles on it?
A: This depends largely on the actual condition of the engine components. Any performance modification to an engine that is worn out or poorly tuned will have detrimental effects. However, an engine in good condition, with good ring and head gasket sealing, should be able to use nitrous without any abnormal wear.
Q: Will the use of nitrous oxide affect the catalytic converter?
A: No. The increase in oxygen present in the exhaust may actually increase the efficiency of the converter. Since the use of nitrous is normally limited to 10-20 seconds of continuous use, there usually are no appreciable effects. Temperatures are typically well within acceptable standards.
Q: Will the percentage of performance increase be the same in a highly modified engine compared to a stock engine when using the same NOS kit and jetting?
A: Not really. In most cases the percentage of increase is greater from a stock engine because it is not as efficient as the modified engine in a normal non-nitrous mode. However, since the effects of nitrous oxide magnify the output of any engine, the total power output will be much higher in the modified engine.
Q: Can high compression engines utilize nitrous oxide?
A: Absolutely. High or low compression ratios can work quite suitably with nitrous oxide provided the proper balance of nitrous and fuel enrichment is maintained. NOS kits are used in applications from relatively low compression stock type motors to Pro-Modifieds, which often exceed 15 to 1. Generally, the higher the compression ratio, the more ignition retard, as well as higher octane fuel, is required. For more specific information talk to one of our technicians.
Q: Can service station fuel be used for street/strip nitrous oxide applications?
A: Yes. Use of a premium type leaded or unleaded fuel of 92, or greater, octance is recommended for most applications. Many NOS systems are designed for use with service station pump gas. However, when higher compression or higher horsepower levels are used, a racing fuel of 100 octane, or more, must be used.
Q: What type of cam is best suited for use with nitrous oxide?
A: Generally, cams that have more exhaust overlap and duration. However, it is best to choose a cam tailored to normal use (when nitrous is not activated) since 99% of most vehicle operation is not at full throttle. There are special cam grinds available for nitrous competition which have more aggressive exhaust profiles etc. Since cam selection depends largely on vehicle weight, gearing, etc., it is best to stick to cam manufacturer's recommendations for your particular goal.
Q: What type of nitrous system is better; a plate injection system or a direct port injection system?
A: The advantages of a plate system are ease of installation and removal, ability to transfer easily to another vehicle, ability to change jetting combinations quickly, and, in most cases, provide you with all the extra HP you will ever need (75 to 350 more HP). In some cases, such as in-line type engines with long runners, a direct port type system is advisable for maximizing distribution. *better more even fuel across the board*Also, where more than 350 HP is needed, our direct port Fogger systems will provide the ultimate in distribution and power (up to 500+ HP). Direct port injection is also desirable when the system is hidden under the manifold.
Q: Should I modify my fuel system to use nitrous oxide?
A: Most stock fuel pumps will work adequately for smaller nitrous applications. It is important to check to see if your pump can flow enough fuel to your existing fuel system (whether carburetor or fuel injected), as well as being able to supply the additional fuel required by the nitrous kit under full throttle conditions. It may be a good idea to dedicate a separate fuel pump to the nitrous kit.
Q: Which is the best position to mount a nitrous bottle?
A: N2Obottles come with siphon tubes and, in order to maintain proper nitrous pickup, it is important to mount the bottle correctly. It is recommend mounting the bottle at a 15 degree angle with the valve end higher than the bottom of the bottle. The valve end of the bottle should point to the front of the vehicle and the valve **** and label should face straight up.
Q: How important is it to use nitrous and fuel filters in a kit?
A: Some of the most important components of any nitrous system are nitrous and fuel filters that keep contaminants from attacking the solenoid or plugging up a jet. A stuck solenoid means trouble!
Q: What are the advantages of using nitrous compared to other performance options?
A: The cost of many other performance options can put you in the poorhouse. Dollar for dollar, you can't buy more performance with less money than nitrous. With a nitrous system, performance and reliability can be had for a much more reasonable price while retaining the advantages of a stock engine during normal driving. And, nitrous offers tremendous gains in torque without having to rev the engine to excessive rpm's. These factors help your engine last longer than many other methods of boosting horsepower.
Q: How do I know how much nitrous is left in the bottle?
A: The most reliable way is to weigh the bottle to determine how many pounds remain. When a bottle is near empty (about 20% or less nitrous remaining) a surging effect is normally felt.
Q: What is the function of the blow-off safety valve on the bottle?
A: It is very importent not to overfill a bottle; i.e., a 10 lb. capacity bottle should not be filled with more than 10 lb. of nitrous oxide by weight. Over-filling and/or too much heat can cause excessive bottle pressures forcing the safety seal to blow and releasing all the contents out of the bottle.
Q:Will I have to change my ignition system?
A: Most late model ignition systems are well suited for nitrous applications. In some higher HP cases, it may be advisable to look into a high quality high output ignition system.
OKieeeeee...i think that about does it. There's alot more that I can write regarding n2o accessories such as purge valves, bigger solenoids, remote bottle openers, fuel management, etc. But my fingers are kinda tired and I'll post here or edit this post later. ..........
Edit: I'm back. With a little info on some "optional" parts that you can purchase w/your N2O kits and their purpose.
Bottle Warmer/Blanket: This is a heated blanket that wraps (or rather straps, with velcro) around your bottle. When switched on it will warm up the bottle, expand the contents and thus increase the amount of PSi inside the bottle. Reason you might want to use it? Most people tend to like to run their pressure somewhere between 9 and 12 (thousand) psi. Most of these bottle warmer kits run on a relay. I've found most of these relays to become defective after a while. I find the easiest way is to bypass the relay, hook it up directly to a switch and just watch the pressure via an in cabin gauge. It can get risky though if you don't watch that pressure.
Purge System: It's how you see that famous white plume of n2o sometimes. It actually servese a purpose other than announcing you're spraying, believe it or not! LoL The purpose of a purge is to remove / clear your lines of any gaseous air from your main feed line. It does not necessarily have to be positioned somewhere where you can observe the white plume, although it is indicative that all is clear to go. Some people opt to position the purge towards the solenoids in order to cool them. A fairly cheap addition to your n2o kit.
In cabin gauges: First understand there are 2 types of gauges. Electical and mechanical. Electrical are fairly easier to install, but depend on your electric system, therefore any malfunction...well you know the rest. They are supposedly calibrated in the same fashion, but some say one is more accurate than the other. Your best bet is to research a little on this. I've always used mechanical and haven't had any issues. An in cabin gauge is mostly for convenience / tuning purposes. As in you don't have to run to your trunk to check the gauge on the bottle, and as in if you have ur warmer connected to a direct switch you can know when to shut it off w/out standing by the bottle watchin the pressure rise.
Remote bottle openers: Super convenient but have been known to not work as well the longer you have them. Remote bottle openers (obviously) hook on to the top of your bottle where you open and close it. This means, every time you take your bottle to get filled, you gotta remove it, and replace it once u put the bottle back in your car. I've noted w/alot of users that wear and tear causes it not to fully open / close the bottle at times. This could vary from person to person. It's convenient because, u don't have to run to the back of the car or reach behind ur seat to open and/or close the bottle. N2O at the flick of a switch!
Window/RPM switches: Most popular that I know of are the MSD window switches. Basically what this item allows you to do is control between what and what RPM you want to spray. For example if you would like to spray between 3500 and 7200 rpms, then you would buy the pack of "pills" that contain these rpm's. Some people worry about hitting rev limiter, etc. etc, or spraying too low in the rpm band. This would be a perfect "added safety measure" for those that worry about, for lack of a better term, going kaboom. Again, an added safety measure and you don't really NEEEEED this, unless you're scared and want some extra safety. IIRC (correct me if i'm wrong), these can be used in combination w/a throttle switch.
Hope some of that helps!
Last edited by MR_LUV; 01-11-2018 at 03:39 AM. Reason: typos
08-04-2005, 01:12 PM
#2
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aurora, IL
Posts: 2,677
Top Ten Mistakes
There's no reason out of all the go fast parts that nitrous oxide should be up at the top of the mystery list. Its been around forever and the well thought out quality kits available today have taken out all the guess work for using the stuff. But then why are people still melting their plugs, blowing head gaskets or worse? With my experience with nitrous oxide Im trying to make people more aware of how dangerous nitrous oxide can be when improperly used, and how rewarding it can be when its done right.
1. Never heat your bottle with a torch Higher bottle pressure generally means you'll get a more potent shot of juice and the optimum operating bottle pressure for most systems is between 900-1050 psi, but it can fall to 600-700 in cool climates. One of the biggest mistakes is heating your bottle with a propane torch. The flame, more often than not is not equally distributed around the bottle. In time that flame will reduce the fatigue life of the aluminum bottle and deteriorate its ability to withstand extreme pressure. A catastrophic explosion could occur which could result in injury or death to the user. To properly heat your bottle it is insisted that you use a bottle warmer or to use a hot water tank. This insures the bottle is heated evenly and safe.
2. When tuning, always start off with the manufacturers recommendations and never ignore the instruction manual Just because a nitrous kit says it can deliver up to 150hp doesn't mean the engine its being installed on can handle it. Get the kit installed and tuned specifically for your engine. Start with the smallest setting and read the plugs until you can achieve the most power or lowest e.t. while maintaining a good reading on the plugs.
3. Never leave your bottle open when the system is not in use After returning from a pass down the drag strip or that chance occurrence with the local LS1 dick, always make sure you turn the valve off and purge any nitrous left in the lines. This will prevent pressure from building up against the solenoids so nitrous doesn't accidentally leak past them and into the intake tract. If nitrous does leak into the engine when you start the car you could be starting a potential bomb.
Also there has been some misconception about the way a bottle can be mounted in a car. You cant just mount it anyway you feel is most convenient. Each bottle has a siphon tube inside that routes from the bottom of the bottle to the valve for the nitrous line. The best reccomended way to mount a bottle is at a 30 to 45 degree angle with the bottom of it facing the rear portion of the car and the supply line facing toward the ground. This will insure the siphon tube is submerged in pure nitrous on launch. You can also mount the bottle straight up provided the supply line fitting is facing the rear of the vehicle.
4. Never assume your stock fuel system is adequate Nitrous engines need sufficient fuel to run well, so you'll want to pay close attention fo the capabilities of your fuel system. On EFI engines the OEM pump is only adequate when dealing with a small shot. Carbureted engines will require a separate fuel supply. To check to see if you are running a sufficient amount of fuel, read your plugs.
5. Always use a purge valve A purge valve is a smaller solenoid that taps into the nitrous supply line from the bottle. Its job is to flush any air or moisture from the supply line so when the system is armed, only pure nitrous oxide will be injected into the engine. If you were to make a pass down the track with out purging the system first you could experience a ssudden yet small stumble from a lack of a healthy nitrous supply.
6. Never use Teflon tape to help seal the nitrous fittings You are not dealing with a life or death situation when using teflon tape on your fittings but it can severely cause damage to your system and engine. Teflon tape does indeed do a great job of sealing the threads on pipe-thread fittings, but it can and usually does wind up working its way through the threads and into the solenoids. If this happens, you will risk the chance of a solenoid failing or the filter inside it becoming restricted, hurting the overall flow of nitrous and/or fuel entering the engine.
The problem or not is most people using too much Teflon tape. Its not uncommon to come across a nozzle with a poor spray pattern and the problem coming from debris clogging the tip, usually teflon tape. It is recommended for the threads to be sealed with liquid Teflon sealer or Loctite sealer. A simple dab is all that's needed, any more and all your accomplishing is making a mess.
7. Never activate the nitrous system while the engine is off, or during part throttle acceleration Often it is asked "What will happen if they hit the button while the engine is not running or during part throttle?" Nitrous kits are only designed for WOT use. The main reason why you shouldn't use it during part throttle is due to the fact that during light cruising, the engine air speed is not enough. At low rpm the air velocity is not enough and a shot of nitrous would increase the cylinder pressure too much. The engine cant move the amount of air and a backfire will generally result.
The safest way to rid the engine of any unwanted nitrous is to unplug the coil pack and while holding the throttle wide open, crank the engine over for about 30 seconds. This will cause the nitrous to escape and not cause a backfire. For those with a distributor just unplug the coil wire and crank away.
8. Aways make sure you have the proper nitrous handling permits In some states such as NJ, it is required you have a nitrous oxide permit to legally purchase, handle, and use nitrous oxide. More and more states are requiring these in order to use the power adder legaly.
If you drive a street car that is equipped wiht nitrous and get pulled over without having the correct nitrous permit, you risk the chance of getting a major fine and possibly seeing your ride getting towed away, headed for the impound yard.
9. Always keep tabs on your spark plugs All this talk about reading your spark plugs. So heres how to read them! Your spark plugs are the key to knowing whats going on inside your engine. Due to differences in the ports of the intake manifold it is important to read all of the plugs and base your jetting off the entire engine not just one plug. Use a magnifying glass to look for tiny silver or black specs deposited on the porcelain. They can indicate aluminum from a piston or head chamber on them. If you suspect aluminum, its a sure sign your engine has too much timing and maybe too much nitrous for the fuel jetting. On the ground strap, note the bluish tinted coloring that indicates heat. A little is good, if the whole strap is bluish or melted, back off on the timing or nitrous jetting.
If you are constantly burning spark plugs it may be necessary to change to a colder heat range plug. A colder plug can transfer more heat and will be less prone to meltdown. Usually on nitrous engines dropping down 2 heat ranges will due the trick.
It is also important to note different types of fuel will put different tracing on the plugs. Find a fuel that works for you and stick with it. Higher-octane fuel has a slower burn rate and may be all that is needed to reduce the temperature of the combustion chambers, but if the timing is advanced too much it can also spell disaster. A good rule of thumb is for every 50hp shot of nitrous, you should retard the timing approximately 2 1/2 degrees. You should always check with the manufacturer, because this figure may change depending on the kit being used.
Using nitrous with 89 octane pump gas is a sure no no. Low octane fuel will burn extremely fast and will not do a very good job of preventing detonation. Of course, when stepping up to leaded race fuel, be sure you are not running catalytic converters. Leaded fuel will heat up and damage converters rather quickly.
10. Always use the proper Blow Off Valve and Tube A nitrous blow off valve is designed to relieve excess pressure should it exceed the bottles specifications. The tube is there to vent the nitrous outside the vehicle and away from the driver.
Most nitrous systems with a 10lb bottle operate best at 900-1050 psi. It is extremely easy to exceed that pressure, especially when filling a bottle after the user feels it is emply. It is not hard at all to fit 12lbs in a 10lb bottle. Most nitrous bov's are pressure rated to 3000psi, but they can and will give if the pressure comes close to that.
The BOV and tube are also maintained by the NHRA. If the nitrous system on your car does not have the proper bov and tube, it will not pass tech at your track.
When storing your bottle do not be careless and leave it in direct sunlight. I once witnessed a racer place his bottle next to the exhaust of a generator. The heat raised the bottle pressure to the point where the bov released the pressure. The racer, panicking from the sudden burst of nitrous from his just filled bottle, went to grab the bottle and got severe burns on his hands from the temperature of the nitrous exiting. Nitrous is an extremely cold gas which will burn your skin just as easily as if it were scolding hot.
Some of these things may seem like no brainers, but are often not followed and i personally have seen tons of damaged from idiots who just slapped a kit on with out reading the instructions or piecing a kit together from different parts. I have even seen solenoids get stuck open and the driver not able to stop the car and hurt people. With all that said please be safe and do it right the first time. Always check and double check, then have someone else check your work. The last thing i want is to see a another victim of nitrous misuse.
1. Never heat your bottle with a torch Higher bottle pressure generally means you'll get a more potent shot of juice and the optimum operating bottle pressure for most systems is between 900-1050 psi, but it can fall to 600-700 in cool climates. One of the biggest mistakes is heating your bottle with a propane torch. The flame, more often than not is not equally distributed around the bottle. In time that flame will reduce the fatigue life of the aluminum bottle and deteriorate its ability to withstand extreme pressure. A catastrophic explosion could occur which could result in injury or death to the user. To properly heat your bottle it is insisted that you use a bottle warmer or to use a hot water tank. This insures the bottle is heated evenly and safe.
2. When tuning, always start off with the manufacturers recommendations and never ignore the instruction manual Just because a nitrous kit says it can deliver up to 150hp doesn't mean the engine its being installed on can handle it. Get the kit installed and tuned specifically for your engine. Start with the smallest setting and read the plugs until you can achieve the most power or lowest e.t. while maintaining a good reading on the plugs.
3. Never leave your bottle open when the system is not in use After returning from a pass down the drag strip or that chance occurrence with the local LS1 dick, always make sure you turn the valve off and purge any nitrous left in the lines. This will prevent pressure from building up against the solenoids so nitrous doesn't accidentally leak past them and into the intake tract. If nitrous does leak into the engine when you start the car you could be starting a potential bomb.
Also there has been some misconception about the way a bottle can be mounted in a car. You cant just mount it anyway you feel is most convenient. Each bottle has a siphon tube inside that routes from the bottom of the bottle to the valve for the nitrous line. The best reccomended way to mount a bottle is at a 30 to 45 degree angle with the bottom of it facing the rear portion of the car and the supply line facing toward the ground. This will insure the siphon tube is submerged in pure nitrous on launch. You can also mount the bottle straight up provided the supply line fitting is facing the rear of the vehicle.
4. Never assume your stock fuel system is adequate Nitrous engines need sufficient fuel to run well, so you'll want to pay close attention fo the capabilities of your fuel system. On EFI engines the OEM pump is only adequate when dealing with a small shot. Carbureted engines will require a separate fuel supply. To check to see if you are running a sufficient amount of fuel, read your plugs.
5. Always use a purge valve A purge valve is a smaller solenoid that taps into the nitrous supply line from the bottle. Its job is to flush any air or moisture from the supply line so when the system is armed, only pure nitrous oxide will be injected into the engine. If you were to make a pass down the track with out purging the system first you could experience a ssudden yet small stumble from a lack of a healthy nitrous supply.
6. Never use Teflon tape to help seal the nitrous fittings You are not dealing with a life or death situation when using teflon tape on your fittings but it can severely cause damage to your system and engine. Teflon tape does indeed do a great job of sealing the threads on pipe-thread fittings, but it can and usually does wind up working its way through the threads and into the solenoids. If this happens, you will risk the chance of a solenoid failing or the filter inside it becoming restricted, hurting the overall flow of nitrous and/or fuel entering the engine.
The problem or not is most people using too much Teflon tape. Its not uncommon to come across a nozzle with a poor spray pattern and the problem coming from debris clogging the tip, usually teflon tape. It is recommended for the threads to be sealed with liquid Teflon sealer or Loctite sealer. A simple dab is all that's needed, any more and all your accomplishing is making a mess.
7. Never activate the nitrous system while the engine is off, or during part throttle acceleration Often it is asked "What will happen if they hit the button while the engine is not running or during part throttle?" Nitrous kits are only designed for WOT use. The main reason why you shouldn't use it during part throttle is due to the fact that during light cruising, the engine air speed is not enough. At low rpm the air velocity is not enough and a shot of nitrous would increase the cylinder pressure too much. The engine cant move the amount of air and a backfire will generally result.
The safest way to rid the engine of any unwanted nitrous is to unplug the coil pack and while holding the throttle wide open, crank the engine over for about 30 seconds. This will cause the nitrous to escape and not cause a backfire. For those with a distributor just unplug the coil wire and crank away.
8. Aways make sure you have the proper nitrous handling permits In some states such as NJ, it is required you have a nitrous oxide permit to legally purchase, handle, and use nitrous oxide. More and more states are requiring these in order to use the power adder legaly.
If you drive a street car that is equipped wiht nitrous and get pulled over without having the correct nitrous permit, you risk the chance of getting a major fine and possibly seeing your ride getting towed away, headed for the impound yard.
9. Always keep tabs on your spark plugs All this talk about reading your spark plugs. So heres how to read them! Your spark plugs are the key to knowing whats going on inside your engine. Due to differences in the ports of the intake manifold it is important to read all of the plugs and base your jetting off the entire engine not just one plug. Use a magnifying glass to look for tiny silver or black specs deposited on the porcelain. They can indicate aluminum from a piston or head chamber on them. If you suspect aluminum, its a sure sign your engine has too much timing and maybe too much nitrous for the fuel jetting. On the ground strap, note the bluish tinted coloring that indicates heat. A little is good, if the whole strap is bluish or melted, back off on the timing or nitrous jetting.
If you are constantly burning spark plugs it may be necessary to change to a colder heat range plug. A colder plug can transfer more heat and will be less prone to meltdown. Usually on nitrous engines dropping down 2 heat ranges will due the trick.
It is also important to note different types of fuel will put different tracing on the plugs. Find a fuel that works for you and stick with it. Higher-octane fuel has a slower burn rate and may be all that is needed to reduce the temperature of the combustion chambers, but if the timing is advanced too much it can also spell disaster. A good rule of thumb is for every 50hp shot of nitrous, you should retard the timing approximately 2 1/2 degrees. You should always check with the manufacturer, because this figure may change depending on the kit being used.
Using nitrous with 89 octane pump gas is a sure no no. Low octane fuel will burn extremely fast and will not do a very good job of preventing detonation. Of course, when stepping up to leaded race fuel, be sure you are not running catalytic converters. Leaded fuel will heat up and damage converters rather quickly.
10. Always use the proper Blow Off Valve and Tube A nitrous blow off valve is designed to relieve excess pressure should it exceed the bottles specifications. The tube is there to vent the nitrous outside the vehicle and away from the driver.
Most nitrous systems with a 10lb bottle operate best at 900-1050 psi. It is extremely easy to exceed that pressure, especially when filling a bottle after the user feels it is emply. It is not hard at all to fit 12lbs in a 10lb bottle. Most nitrous bov's are pressure rated to 3000psi, but they can and will give if the pressure comes close to that.
The BOV and tube are also maintained by the NHRA. If the nitrous system on your car does not have the proper bov and tube, it will not pass tech at your track.
When storing your bottle do not be careless and leave it in direct sunlight. I once witnessed a racer place his bottle next to the exhaust of a generator. The heat raised the bottle pressure to the point where the bov released the pressure. The racer, panicking from the sudden burst of nitrous from his just filled bottle, went to grab the bottle and got severe burns on his hands from the temperature of the nitrous exiting. Nitrous is an extremely cold gas which will burn your skin just as easily as if it were scolding hot.
Some of these things may seem like no brainers, but are often not followed and i personally have seen tons of damaged from idiots who just slapped a kit on with out reading the instructions or piecing a kit together from different parts. I have even seen solenoids get stuck open and the driver not able to stop the car and hurt people. With all that said please be safe and do it right the first time. Always check and double check, then have someone else check your work. The last thing i want is to see a another victim of nitrous misuse.
Last edited by MR_LUV; 01-11-2018 at 03:59 AM. Reason: typos
08-04-2005, 01:15 PM
#3
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aurora, IL
Posts: 2,677
Nitrous Jet Calculator
And a jet calculator now we should be all set as far as nitrous info
Nitrous Oxide fuel Jet size and HP Calculator nos n2o
all of this info is from Extreme Race Parts extremeraceparts.com on there forums
Nitrous Oxide fuel Jet size and HP Calculator nos n2o
all of this info is from Extreme Race Parts extremeraceparts.com on there forums
Last edited by MR_LUV; 01-11-2018 at 03:51 AM. Reason: Insert Latest Jet Calculator
08-04-2005, 04:30 PM
#5
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 268
This is probably the best nitrous post on this site. Great job, aarontrini85. 
15 bottles of it blew the intake manifold, lol. I thought that should be noted. ^^
Some manufactures note that the solenoids were not made for continuous use, so, keeping it down to 15 seconds or less is also good for the health of nitrous system itself as well as the engine.
This is what I don't understand. I'm saying I don't believe it, I would just like more information about this if you have any.
Originally Posted by aarontrini85
also the most nitrous a tc has ever held is 125 shot and it blew the intake manifold it was done by zpi
It is possible to hold the button down until the bottle is empty. However 15 continuous seconds at a time, or less, is recommend. *In otherwords, no longer than 15 seconds at a time. This is particularly important, but usually never occurs since most races do not last this long.
In addition to this, it must be noted that spraying in 5th Gear is also very much discouraged. 5th gear is not made to handle such large amounts of load on the motor and spraying in 5th has been known to cause many setups to "blow up".
08-04-2005, 11:23 PM
#6
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Reseda, Califorina
Posts: 84
Originally Posted by aarontrini85
also the most nitrous a tc has ever held is 125 shot and it blew the intake manifold it was done by zpi
The reason the intake was blown off was a nitrous backfire. Most people think it will only blow the exhaust system off a car, but it can blow up a plastic intake manifold that many new cars have.
You can solve this by moving the nozzle back further.
Without having a tC here I can't visually show you, but basically READ WHAT THE MANUFACTUER SAYS.
You can place nozzles are far back as the intake box if you want. Your power output will be the same, it also makes the nitrous shot more progressive because it has a longer way to travel before hitting the combustion chamber.
Also another reason this could have happen was an over-rich condition.
You need to keep your bottle pressure around 1100psi and check your jets. Depending on what is done to your car you might need to jump down a jet or two on the fuel size to prevent an over-rich condition.
Dyno tuning nitrous is very useful and should be done.
Hot Day and Cold Day track conditions can be tuned by using different jets and bottle pressure.
Learn from their mistake and have fun....
08-04-2005, 11:36 PM
#8
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Reseda, Califorina
Posts: 84
I'll throw out a couple of more things -
Don't retard your timing! For of all that's VERY expensive on modern DIS equipped cars. You would need at least an MSD DIS-2. If tC's are coil on plug, then you need a DIS-4.
Instead of doing that, you can slow down the burn rate which is the SAME as retarding your timing by stepping up in octane.
Since the tC runs on 87, 91-93 available national wide should be good to around 100hp of nitrous. Beyond that you need to run 100 octane unleaded, at that point you'll also need progressive control.
So you don't need to follow NOS's mantra of 2 degrees of timing for every 50hp...
NX recomends 2 stages colder plugs right out of the box, so listen to them!
This is a good idea for any nitrous system.
Don't retard your timing! For of all that's VERY expensive on modern DIS equipped cars. You would need at least an MSD DIS-2. If tC's are coil on plug, then you need a DIS-4.
Instead of doing that, you can slow down the burn rate which is the SAME as retarding your timing by stepping up in octane.
Since the tC runs on 87, 91-93 available national wide should be good to around 100hp of nitrous. Beyond that you need to run 100 octane unleaded, at that point you'll also need progressive control.
So you don't need to follow NOS's mantra of 2 degrees of timing for every 50hp...
NX recomends 2 stages colder plugs right out of the box, so listen to them!
This is a good idea for any nitrous system.
08-05-2005, 01:26 AM
#9
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 219
Wow dj4monie you need to take a ticket and take a seat. You have no clue what you're talking about.
All vendors of nitrous calibrate their jets to different pressures. NX likes around 1050-1100. NOS is different, and thus, different jet sizes reflect the same HP gains.
You ALWAYS want to retard timing under spray. The rule of thumb is 2-3* for every 50 shot. Yes, you can get away with running a higher octane fuel, but even in my car running C16, I still pull out 5* for a 100 shot.
Definitly go with colder plugs and definitly tune it on a dyno. The "recommended" jets are typically PIG rich.
Moving the nitrous fogger farther from the valves INCREASES the chance of puddling and thus, a backfire. Thus why when you start spraying 125-150+ on a single fogger, you exponentially increase the risk of backfires. So what do you do? You buy a direct port kit that injects the nitrous into individual cylinders 1-2inches from the valves, versus being 18-24inches from the valves in a single fogger setup.
The biggest mistake made with nitrous is spraying too low! I know some guys that won't spray under 4000-5000rpm. I think that's a bit extreme. I have mine set to 3500. I would strongly, STRONGLY suggest against spraying under 3000. Definitly invest in a window switch. You can buy an MSD Digital Window Switch from Summit for $89, and it's more than worth the investment. A WOT switch that comes with the kit is also recommended inline with the window. Also, an arm switch is a good idea. This way, your nitrous will only come on above (and below) a set RPM, only at WOT, and only when armed.
There is no reason to go to progressive control. If you are spraying over 100, I would definitly invest in a directport kit. You saw what happened with ZPI's Scion spraying 125 ;)
All vendors of nitrous calibrate their jets to different pressures. NX likes around 1050-1100. NOS is different, and thus, different jet sizes reflect the same HP gains.
You ALWAYS want to retard timing under spray. The rule of thumb is 2-3* for every 50 shot. Yes, you can get away with running a higher octane fuel, but even in my car running C16, I still pull out 5* for a 100 shot.
Definitly go with colder plugs and definitly tune it on a dyno. The "recommended" jets are typically PIG rich.
Moving the nitrous fogger farther from the valves INCREASES the chance of puddling and thus, a backfire. Thus why when you start spraying 125-150+ on a single fogger, you exponentially increase the risk of backfires. So what do you do? You buy a direct port kit that injects the nitrous into individual cylinders 1-2inches from the valves, versus being 18-24inches from the valves in a single fogger setup.
The biggest mistake made with nitrous is spraying too low! I know some guys that won't spray under 4000-5000rpm. I think that's a bit extreme. I have mine set to 3500. I would strongly, STRONGLY suggest against spraying under 3000. Definitly invest in a window switch. You can buy an MSD Digital Window Switch from Summit for $89, and it's more than worth the investment. A WOT switch that comes with the kit is also recommended inline with the window. Also, an arm switch is a good idea. This way, your nitrous will only come on above (and below) a set RPM, only at WOT, and only when armed.
There is no reason to go to progressive control. If you are spraying over 100, I would definitly invest in a directport kit. You saw what happened with ZPI's Scion spraying 125 ;)
08-05-2005, 01:48 AM
#10
Member
SL Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Reseda, Califorina
Posts: 84
Available Nitrous Systems -
There is no specific tC/ Nitrous System out there.
Note: Venom may have an control unit that will work with the tC but the rest of the system is like the others.
Because of market competition and popularity the price of a nitrous system has gone down to below $500 for most kits.
Making it bar-none the biggest producer of hp available for the least amount of money.
I'm not going to get into the many differences in kits because they use the basic same nozzle design. Its basically a "fuel shear" design that helps atomize the fuel better reducing the need for dry manifold systems.
Wet Kits make MORE torque, Dry Kits make LESS torque.
Basically if you want to get there first, you'll use a Wet kit.
Personal Favorite -
The Nitrous Works - http://www.barrygrant.com/nitrous/default.aspx
PN#13080 (13090 is for 2.0L Toyota cars but there might not be any difference the kit but the price might be higher)
Lowest Price Currently is from Jeg's: $449 - www.jegs.com
Very effective kit, my buddy "Nitro" on the J-body boards runs low 13's with not much more than this nitrous kit, bolt-ons and BFG drag radials. Best ET is 13.30@103. With some supension tuning this car could run 12's all day long.
Suggested Options -
PN#16032 Max Pack Kit - $240 at Jegs
This includes -
An Automatic Bottle Heater (1000-1100psi), Preasure Gauge, Blowoff Cap and Vent Tube (NHRA Legal)
Now only will this kit allow you to get the most of your nitrous kit, the blow-down tube and vent cap are needed for tech inpection at MOST tracks and its for your safety.
So for about $700 you could have a COMPLETE nitrous system and make anywhere from 50-100hp over stock.
Unbeatable price for the level of performance.
Edelbrock Univ EFI, NOS Pro Fogger EFI Univ, ZEX Wet Kits and NX kit are avalable between $499-550. So shop wisely....
They will all give you the same amount of performance, so it really doesn't matter which one you go with.
NX has larger solnoids normally found on other companies larger systems. So the abilty to squeeze more power goes to the NX kit with the NOS and Edelbrock kits close behind.
ZEX says their wet kit is good to 225hp
ZEX is BY FAR the easiest to install by a large margin. You can install their wet kit, bottle heater, tube, cap and all the wiring in about 8 hours if you do it NEATLY.
I highly recommend DRAG RADIALS!
They are much more forgiving than regular street tires and easier on parts. Slicks while they tend to have less part breakage are harder on clutches at lower pressures than drag radials.
If you want good ET's at the track, then do it right and get some tires that will hold it.
I also suggest opening up the stock exhaust system. Even with an axle back you'll pick up performance on nitrous.
Its not uncommon to pick up as much as 70hp from 50hp jets with these new age wet nozzle systems.
There several nitrous companies out there at various price points.
Do youself and favor and job for the kit that suits your needs the best.
If your going to use a progressive shot right away I would suggest NOZ or Wizard of Nitrous kits. They are a UK based company and the ONLY company that makes billet solnoids designed for nitrous and not based on soda machine solnoids that US based kits all use because of price.
While the soda based units are very reilable for non progressive use, they tend to overheat and burn out after prolonged use with progressive systems.
DONT BE SCARED!
Its been PROVEN over and over and over again you could run several seasons with the same solnoids without issue. But you'll want to tear them down at the end of the season for signs of electrical wear.
Rebuilding kits are cheap and serious nitrous users have at least ONE rebuilding kit in their tool box.
The NOX kits are excellent and cost like it about $825 US for a kit.
One of the few US dealers is RaceTESTED - http://www.racetested.com/
This is the system DESIGNED to be PULSED or Progressively controlled.
Now the fun part -
Progressive Control....
While you could use a system like Venom VCN-2000, it won't work on every car.
And even if it did for the cost of that kit, you could SMOKE it with a basic wet nozzle kit and outboard progressive controller.
There several on the market.
The most popular come from NOS and NX mostly because they are the most promoted. The BEST available I believe is the NX Progressive controller, about $700
It is computer programable and highly acturate. It can also be connected to FJO's wide band 02 driver for 100% closed loop nitrous control.
FJO makes the progressive controller for NX - www.fjoracing.com
The Maximiser 2 is now available and its INSANE, check it out...
That system is REALLY meant for competition only but has plenty of merit for a street system if you don't mind paying for all the features.
If you want ALMOST as much control but in a tidey package, look no further than WON (Wizard of Nitrous) Maximiser - http://www.noswizard.com/product_info.php?products_id=3
It slightly less than the FJO unit, but can be programed from the display and doesn't require a laptop, desktop or Palm unit to program.
This is the unit that REALLY started the progressive revolution. WON made NX"s first progressive controllers.
This is the creme of the progressive crop, you can't DO any better.
The only other controller I recommend is this one and great for people on a tight budget - http://www.noswizard.com/product_info.php?products_id=4
The Mini Max does what alot of other controllers in its price range WISH they could do and this unit is a 1/3rd of the SIZE of conventional controllers.
This is for single stage systems only, while the more expensive units can do 2 and 3 stages....
The Mini runs about $400
There less expensive units available from NOS and Schnitz www.schnitzracing.com
Some run as low as $250...
Getting the power down with more than a 50hp shot is very challenging and 100hp shot will easily blow off a pair of small slicks.
Progressive control will allow you to run more nitrous and larger jets than a conventional 2 stage or 3 stage unit will and the only thing more powerful than a single progressive stage is 2-3 stage progressive systems.
Any engine can injest more nitrous at higher engine speeds. What happens is that regular nitrous systems are FLAT flow, which means they flow the same amount of nitrous at low RPM as they do at high RPM. They don't account for the extra demand at high RPM needed to maintain the same power level and that's why nitrous systems often make peak power WAY before peak power is reached on an engine when not on the bottle.
Progressive controls allow you to "feed" the engine more nitrous as its needed to maintain the same power level.
If an engine can use 50hp at 3500rpm it can take 100hp at 7000rpm
This is the only way you can equal a turbo's performance at the track and on the dyno.
The reason most people DONT do it is because of cost and this funny notion that they feel they need to have the power all the time like a turbo or supercharger would give you. That might be true in low population areas but not in large cities where your car sees WOT for less than 6 seconds in most cases and with today's fuel prices prolly even less than that.
Nitrous makes your car DUAL PURPOSE.
You can't do that with turbos or superchargers. Even if you do put a turbo or blower on your car, you can always leave the nitrous system for an extra kit at high RPM like most blowers need or for use at anti-lag for turbo systems.
I hope this helps with your decision on nitrous.
I love the stuff!
There is no specific tC/ Nitrous System out there.
Note: Venom may have an control unit that will work with the tC but the rest of the system is like the others.
Because of market competition and popularity the price of a nitrous system has gone down to below $500 for most kits.
Making it bar-none the biggest producer of hp available for the least amount of money.
I'm not going to get into the many differences in kits because they use the basic same nozzle design. Its basically a "fuel shear" design that helps atomize the fuel better reducing the need for dry manifold systems.
Wet Kits make MORE torque, Dry Kits make LESS torque.
Basically if you want to get there first, you'll use a Wet kit.
Personal Favorite -
The Nitrous Works - http://www.barrygrant.com/nitrous/default.aspx
PN#13080 (13090 is for 2.0L Toyota cars but there might not be any difference the kit but the price might be higher)
Lowest Price Currently is from Jeg's: $449 - www.jegs.com
Very effective kit, my buddy "Nitro" on the J-body boards runs low 13's with not much more than this nitrous kit, bolt-ons and BFG drag radials. Best ET is 13.30@103. With some supension tuning this car could run 12's all day long.
Suggested Options -
PN#16032 Max Pack Kit - $240 at Jegs
This includes -
An Automatic Bottle Heater (1000-1100psi), Preasure Gauge, Blowoff Cap and Vent Tube (NHRA Legal)
Now only will this kit allow you to get the most of your nitrous kit, the blow-down tube and vent cap are needed for tech inpection at MOST tracks and its for your safety.
So for about $700 you could have a COMPLETE nitrous system and make anywhere from 50-100hp over stock.
Unbeatable price for the level of performance.
Edelbrock Univ EFI, NOS Pro Fogger EFI Univ, ZEX Wet Kits and NX kit are avalable between $499-550. So shop wisely....
They will all give you the same amount of performance, so it really doesn't matter which one you go with.
NX has larger solnoids normally found on other companies larger systems. So the abilty to squeeze more power goes to the NX kit with the NOS and Edelbrock kits close behind.
ZEX says their wet kit is good to 225hp
ZEX is BY FAR the easiest to install by a large margin. You can install their wet kit, bottle heater, tube, cap and all the wiring in about 8 hours if you do it NEATLY.
I highly recommend DRAG RADIALS!
They are much more forgiving than regular street tires and easier on parts. Slicks while they tend to have less part breakage are harder on clutches at lower pressures than drag radials.
If you want good ET's at the track, then do it right and get some tires that will hold it.
I also suggest opening up the stock exhaust system. Even with an axle back you'll pick up performance on nitrous.
Its not uncommon to pick up as much as 70hp from 50hp jets with these new age wet nozzle systems.
There several nitrous companies out there at various price points.
Do youself and favor and job for the kit that suits your needs the best.
If your going to use a progressive shot right away I would suggest NOZ or Wizard of Nitrous kits. They are a UK based company and the ONLY company that makes billet solnoids designed for nitrous and not based on soda machine solnoids that US based kits all use because of price.
While the soda based units are very reilable for non progressive use, they tend to overheat and burn out after prolonged use with progressive systems.
DONT BE SCARED!
Its been PROVEN over and over and over again you could run several seasons with the same solnoids without issue. But you'll want to tear them down at the end of the season for signs of electrical wear.
Rebuilding kits are cheap and serious nitrous users have at least ONE rebuilding kit in their tool box.
The NOX kits are excellent and cost like it about $825 US for a kit.
One of the few US dealers is RaceTESTED - http://www.racetested.com/
This is the system DESIGNED to be PULSED or Progressively controlled.
Now the fun part -
Progressive Control....
While you could use a system like Venom VCN-2000, it won't work on every car.
And even if it did for the cost of that kit, you could SMOKE it with a basic wet nozzle kit and outboard progressive controller.
There several on the market.
The most popular come from NOS and NX mostly because they are the most promoted. The BEST available I believe is the NX Progressive controller, about $700
It is computer programable and highly acturate. It can also be connected to FJO's wide band 02 driver for 100% closed loop nitrous control.
FJO makes the progressive controller for NX - www.fjoracing.com
The Maximiser 2 is now available and its INSANE, check it out...
That system is REALLY meant for competition only but has plenty of merit for a street system if you don't mind paying for all the features.
If you want ALMOST as much control but in a tidey package, look no further than WON (Wizard of Nitrous) Maximiser - http://www.noswizard.com/product_info.php?products_id=3
It slightly less than the FJO unit, but can be programed from the display and doesn't require a laptop, desktop or Palm unit to program.
This is the unit that REALLY started the progressive revolution. WON made NX"s first progressive controllers.
This is the creme of the progressive crop, you can't DO any better.
The only other controller I recommend is this one and great for people on a tight budget - http://www.noswizard.com/product_info.php?products_id=4
The Mini Max does what alot of other controllers in its price range WISH they could do and this unit is a 1/3rd of the SIZE of conventional controllers.
This is for single stage systems only, while the more expensive units can do 2 and 3 stages....
The Mini runs about $400
There less expensive units available from NOS and Schnitz www.schnitzracing.com
Some run as low as $250...
Getting the power down with more than a 50hp shot is very challenging and 100hp shot will easily blow off a pair of small slicks.
Progressive control will allow you to run more nitrous and larger jets than a conventional 2 stage or 3 stage unit will and the only thing more powerful than a single progressive stage is 2-3 stage progressive systems.
Any engine can injest more nitrous at higher engine speeds. What happens is that regular nitrous systems are FLAT flow, which means they flow the same amount of nitrous at low RPM as they do at high RPM. They don't account for the extra demand at high RPM needed to maintain the same power level and that's why nitrous systems often make peak power WAY before peak power is reached on an engine when not on the bottle.
Progressive controls allow you to "feed" the engine more nitrous as its needed to maintain the same power level.
If an engine can use 50hp at 3500rpm it can take 100hp at 7000rpm
This is the only way you can equal a turbo's performance at the track and on the dyno.
The reason most people DONT do it is because of cost and this funny notion that they feel they need to have the power all the time like a turbo or supercharger would give you. That might be true in low population areas but not in large cities where your car sees WOT for less than 6 seconds in most cases and with today's fuel prices prolly even less than that.
Nitrous makes your car DUAL PURPOSE.
You can't do that with turbos or superchargers. Even if you do put a turbo or blower on your car, you can always leave the nitrous system for an extra kit at high RPM like most blowers need or for use at anti-lag for turbo systems.
I hope this helps with your decision on nitrous.
I love the stuff!
08-05-2005, 02:16 AM
#11
Member
SL Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Reseda, Califorina
Posts: 84
Originally Posted by turbo2liter
Wow dj4monie you need to take a ticket and take a seat. You have no clue what you're talking about.
All vendors of nitrous calibrate their jets to different pressures. NX likes around 1050-1100. NOS is different, and thus, different jet sizes reflect the same HP gains.
You ALWAYS want to retard timing under spray. The rule of thumb is 2-3* for every 50 shot. Yes, you can get away with running a higher octane fuel, but even in my car running C16, I still pull out 5* for a 100 shot.
Definitly go with colder plugs and definitly tune it on a dyno. The "recommended" jets are typically PIG rich.
Moving the nitrous fogger farther from the valves INCREASES the chance of puddling and thus, a backfire. Thus why when you start spraying 125-150+ on a single fogger, you exponentially increase the risk of backfires. So what do you do? You buy a direct port kit that injects the nitrous into individual cylinders 1-2inches from the valves, versus being 18-24inches from the valves in a single fogger setup.
The biggest mistake made with nitrous is spraying too low! I know some guys that won't spray under 4000-5000rpm. I think that's a bit extreme. I have mine set to 3500. I would strongly, STRONGLY suggest against spraying under 3000. Definitly invest in a window switch. You can buy an MSD Digital Window Switch from Summit for $89, and it's more than worth the investment. A WOT switch that comes with the kit is also recommended inline with the window. Also, an arm switch is a good idea. This way, your nitrous will only come on above (and below) a set RPM, only at WOT, and only when armed.
There is no reason to go to progressive control. If you are spraying over 100, I would definitly invest in a directport kit. You saw what happened with ZPI's Scion spraying 125 ;)
All vendors of nitrous calibrate their jets to different pressures. NX likes around 1050-1100. NOS is different, and thus, different jet sizes reflect the same HP gains.
You ALWAYS want to retard timing under spray. The rule of thumb is 2-3* for every 50 shot. Yes, you can get away with running a higher octane fuel, but even in my car running C16, I still pull out 5* for a 100 shot.
Definitly go with colder plugs and definitly tune it on a dyno. The "recommended" jets are typically PIG rich.
Moving the nitrous fogger farther from the valves INCREASES the chance of puddling and thus, a backfire. Thus why when you start spraying 125-150+ on a single fogger, you exponentially increase the risk of backfires. So what do you do? You buy a direct port kit that injects the nitrous into individual cylinders 1-2inches from the valves, versus being 18-24inches from the valves in a single fogger setup.
The biggest mistake made with nitrous is spraying too low! I know some guys that won't spray under 4000-5000rpm. I think that's a bit extreme. I have mine set to 3500. I would strongly, STRONGLY suggest against spraying under 3000. Definitly invest in a window switch. You can buy an MSD Digital Window Switch from Summit for $89, and it's more than worth the investment. A WOT switch that comes with the kit is also recommended inline with the window. Also, an arm switch is a good idea. This way, your nitrous will only come on above (and below) a set RPM, only at WOT, and only when armed.
There is no reason to go to progressive control. If you are spraying over 100, I would definitly invest in a directport kit. You saw what happened with ZPI's Scion spraying 125 ;)
I have never and will never retard my timing.
If a car on stock timing runs on 87 octane, going up 3+ octane levels is PLENTY.
Also VP makes 100 and higher fuels specifically for NITROUS OXIDE use.
Ive never blown up anything, never, not even a PLASTIC INTAKE MANIFOLD
SOHC Neons have PLASTIC intakes and I have NEVER blown one off, others have but I haven't. Call it luck or call it skillz...
In hidden systems I have cut nozzles in half and hid everything in the air box and ran nylon tubing, not even braied lines. Never had a problem and very reilable.
Ive been using nitrous for a long, long time and never even with NOS' kits retard my timing and I have run as much as 125hp on a DEAD STOCK Dodge Neon.
Direct Port is overrated. I have put single nozzle systems on that outrun more expensive direct port kits all the time. Direct Port is great but really only needed for over 150hp and in some cases not even that. NX makes a large orfice nozzle that good up to 225hp.
I don't even recommend direct port until you need more than 200hp and since most people are scared to run 50hp, let alone 75hp on a 4 cylinder you can understand just how many times I have actually installed one.
In some classes of racing you can't use direct port systems and can only use single nozzle kits, so NX developed this system.
I haven't had a chance to use it, but if it as good as most of their products I don't doubt it will whoop **** like it should.
I've never used a Windows Switch, I short shift on nitrous and I don't try and put the power down with regular street tires either. I have never hit the rev-limiter and don't plan too. I have launched at 3000rpm on nitrous with a 2.0L engine and NO DAMAGE.
Go ahead and put a direct port, non progressive, window switched controlled system on your car.
I'll put a single nozzle, progressive controlled system on just about any stick compact with drag radials or slicks, a clutch that can hold it and run LOW 12's.
STOCK BLOCK and everything.
I've done it before, others have done it before, so its been proven...
I didn't see what happen with ZPI, I've seen several people blow off the plastic intake on cars, nitrous backfire through the exhaust, MANGLE the exhaust system and but HUGE holes in the collector and primaries.
I've seen nitrous do MORE damage than blowing off an intake and its usually something stupid behind it.
Any time you blow something off the engine that's TUNING related.
When you bend a ROD then that's TOO MUCH NITROUS and RPM has LITTLE to do with it.
More often that NOT damage comes from running nitrous systems too LEAN and has nothing to do with ignition TIMING which your can HEAR even on nitrous and if your SMART you'll get out of the throttle.
Don't tempt me I'll purchase a kit and install it on a local tC and whoop **** with it. I mean I can afford to burn up $500 to prove a point can you?
Oh and that's why I don't use NOS anymore. There tech support is a joke and they haven't changed their tuning suggestions in 15 years. You want proof? I have articales and magazine stories that go back 25 years and they KEEP saying the same thing about igntion timing retard, while cars have evolved since then.
Also it was NOS that made the first DRY kits because they were too LAZY to design a wet nozzle properly.
Back when NX first came onto the scene I was able to talk to one of the company owners. From that point on I have used nothing but NX and The Nitrous Works products. He designed BOTH NOZZLES, NOS and Edelbrock pretty much COPIED it.
There several nitrous companies out there I didn't mention that make a good product and they don't suggest retarding your timing until you got little puffs on your spark plugs.
Why loose power by retarding your timing if you don't need it????
You need to take a ticket and sit down because I got my bases covered.
And don't bring your V8 this and that into this because I have run SINGLE NOZZLE kits in F-bodies and run 11's....
NO TIMING RETARD...
I bet you couldn't even tell me how to keep bottle pressure up without using a BOTTLE HEATER...
I know all the tricks homie
08-05-2005, 02:28 AM
#12
Member
SL Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Reseda, Califorina
Posts: 84
I also posted here as the suggestion of somebody from this board. I Know my SHHHH about nitrous, many CLAIM to know but hardly know anything.
I don't have the time and the money to prove myself everytime somebody wants to call me out on the internet.
If you got what it takes put nitrous on your tC and try to out run me. I'll even go down to a 75hp shot and I don't even have a kit installed on my current car but I can fix that in about 4 hours.
If you really got what it takes, call up Pinks...
I only have about $1500 invested in my current Neon, I don't mind loosing it but I know I wouldnt...
I don't have the time and the money to prove myself everytime somebody wants to call me out on the internet.
If you got what it takes put nitrous on your tC and try to out run me. I'll even go down to a 75hp shot and I don't even have a kit installed on my current car but I can fix that in about 4 hours.
If you really got what it takes, call up Pinks...
I only have about $1500 invested in my current Neon, I don't mind loosing it but I know I wouldnt...
08-05-2005, 06:44 AM
#13
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 219
WOW.
Explain to me how a wet kit makes more torque than a dry kit. A wet kit simply requires the injectors to compensate with added fuel, while a wet kit does not. Power differences are negligent. That is one of the worst, most ignorant comments I think I've heard in a while.
Unfortunatly, timing retard is suggested by the manufacturer for a reason. That's great you don't do it, and have had no problems. If you would tune someone ELSE's car like this being responsible for any damage, you are an idiot.
You can easily lean out on nitrous and detonate by running too much timing, hence, the reason for retarding timing under spray. I too know many that don't, so what? I pull out 4-5* on a directport 100 shot. The power differences are negligible on the spray.
You run your nitrous on the edge: no window switch, just button controlled. I consider that stupid. You can hear knock while you're spraying? I usually like to tune my car right the first time, so I don't have to try and listen if it's going to go pop while I'm racing. Maybe you don't, that's your prerogative I suppose.
Bending rods can be a sign of too big of a shot, or detonation. Cracked ring lands are also a sign of detonation. A big nitrous backfire can and will bend rods, blow intake manifolds, throttle body's, intercooler pipes/intakes, burn up valves, etc. I have not yet seen any exhaust primaries damaged from a backfire.
I come from a 4 cylinder background, never touched a v8 in my life. Yes, let's race for pinks. And please, teach me how to keep up bottle pressure without a heater. Make sure you give me the physics behind it as well.
Explain to me how a wet kit makes more torque than a dry kit. A wet kit simply requires the injectors to compensate with added fuel, while a wet kit does not. Power differences are negligent. That is one of the worst, most ignorant comments I think I've heard in a while.
Unfortunatly, timing retard is suggested by the manufacturer for a reason. That's great you don't do it, and have had no problems. If you would tune someone ELSE's car like this being responsible for any damage, you are an idiot.
You can easily lean out on nitrous and detonate by running too much timing, hence, the reason for retarding timing under spray. I too know many that don't, so what? I pull out 4-5* on a directport 100 shot. The power differences are negligible on the spray.
You run your nitrous on the edge: no window switch, just button controlled. I consider that stupid. You can hear knock while you're spraying? I usually like to tune my car right the first time, so I don't have to try and listen if it's going to go pop while I'm racing. Maybe you don't, that's your prerogative I suppose.
Bending rods can be a sign of too big of a shot, or detonation. Cracked ring lands are also a sign of detonation. A big nitrous backfire can and will bend rods, blow intake manifolds, throttle body's, intercooler pipes/intakes, burn up valves, etc. I have not yet seen any exhaust primaries damaged from a backfire.
I come from a 4 cylinder background, never touched a v8 in my life. Yes, let's race for pinks. And please, teach me how to keep up bottle pressure without a heater. Make sure you give me the physics behind it as well.
08-05-2005, 10:55 AM
#14
Senior Member
SL Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aurora, IL
Posts: 2,677
hey hey hey racing for pink slips seems like every thing here is getting 2 Fast 2 Furious (pos movie) for me lol lets stop with the ____ talking and get back on track here
Last edited by MR_LUV; 01-11-2018 at 03:26 AM.
08-05-2005, 04:01 PM
#15
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 219
Originally Posted by aarontrini85
hey hey hey racing for pink slips seems like every thing here is getting 2 fast 2 furious (pos movie) for me lol lets stop with the poopie talking and get back on track here
03-30-2006, 02:14 PM
#18
Senior Member
SL Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aurora, IL
Posts: 2,677
this info is from d-series.org just becosue this is from a honda site doesnt make it any less valid if any thing running the kind of nitrous they run on a stock d series would take more time and knowladge so i would take there advice over others
Originally Posted by sammydhoff
I have been running nitrous for about a year in my 95 EX coupe- D16Z6 (89K). First I applaud u for posting and not just throwing on a kit and blowing your motor then posting asking us why u blew it. Below I have listed the steps I have taken with my nitrous along with my dyno numbers:
1. Read and do research before u buy and hook up anything. I have sat in Barnes and Noble bookstore for hours reading magazines and books. I would recommend a book called "Sport Compact Nitrous Injection" by Joe Pettitt, it can be ordered on amazon.com for $13.27, there are a few other good books out there just look in the car section. Also find all posts in the forced induction forums on here, honda-tech.com, and dserieshonda, people with your same car will tell u there experiences- good and bad with it. I researched for about 8 months before I even ordered my kit.
2. Start out small 35 shot then to 55, and if u have ***** and a strong motor a 75 shot. I purchased a Nitrous Express Import Single Fogger Wet Kit. It sprays nitrous and fuel through the same nozzle and into the motor. I have never had a problem with the kit, great quality and customer service.
3. Purchase the Gen-x 2 upgrade kit it comes with a purge solenoid and tube, blow down tube(required if u race at a NHRA track), bottle heater, gauge and adapter. Good investment.
4. A few tips while spraying, DO NOT spray below 3000RPM u will have what is called nitrous backfire, with a wet kit spray u fuel into your intake manifold, at too low a rpm the velocity of air is not traveling fast enough to pull the fuel in too so it will puddle in your intake manifold and kaboom!!!!!!!! I backfired once at the track- black smoke everywhere, thought I broke something. Do not spray until redline I stop at 7000rpm on my Z6.
5. I would HIGHLY recommend buying a NX TPS switch, it only opens the solenoids at wide open throttle so u make sure you are not running lean. I also hooked up a MSD rpm acivated window switch so the solenoids will only open between 3000-7000rpm's. The MSD sends out a 12V- ground signal out in the certain rpm range. The tps requires a 12V+ and 12V- to operate so I hooked the output of the MSD to the ground of the TPS so even if I am at wide open throttle I cannot spray until the MSD box reads between 3000-7000rpm, this is a failsafe way to ensure safety for u and your motor.
6. Have your car dyno tuned to ensure your air/fuel ratio is within an acceptable range, I paid $55 for three pulls and tuning at my local shop.
7. Buy a air/fuel gauge even if it is the crappy autometer one like I have, it will tell u things u WILL want to know.
8. Buy colder spark plugs. I was running NGK ZFR6F-11 (1 step colder), they were fine for a 55 shot but melted when I went to a 75 shot. I now run NGK BKR7E (2 steps colder) they have held up fine.
9. Retard your timing like the nitrous manual says, u dont want to melt a piston (or melt spark plugs like I did) because of the high pressures, and temps. FMIDRC Racer threw a rod in his 1.5 minime block with a 55 dry Zex shot.
10. Be careful nitrous like boost is addictive u always want to turn it up a notch, but our stock motors or clutches were not meant from honda to make that much instant torque and horsepower, you will need to do some mods to reap the benefits.
11. Have a good open exhaust I run a Apexi N1 full catback, with a test pipe. It is also recommended to get a good header to let all those extra exhaust gases exit faster. I dont have a aftermarket header because I am going turbo soon and dont want to waste the money.
12. Change your fuel filter
13. Check my other posts in the forced induction forum, I have a few and gotten alot of great responses, just do a search. D-series.org helped me build my Z6.
14. I have and do still smoke mustangs and alot of other cars, people are so suprised how I pull away from them and then open my hood and they only see 1 cam gear.
15. Good luck please email me with any questions at sammydhoff@yahoo.com
Below are my dyno numbers with a 55 wet shot:
(I now run with a 75 shot but havent put it on the dyno yet)
Run #1 (Stock w/ bolt-ons) Max Power 117.8 Max Torque 99.6
Run #2 (NX 55 Wet Shot) Max Power 158.3 Max Torque 162.7
Below are my mods.
Z6 w/ stock internals
stock timing
NX 55 Wet shot
AEM short ram
pulleys
no A/C
apexi N1 catback
straight pipe
1. Read and do research before u buy and hook up anything. I have sat in Barnes and Noble bookstore for hours reading magazines and books. I would recommend a book called "Sport Compact Nitrous Injection" by Joe Pettitt, it can be ordered on amazon.com for $13.27, there are a few other good books out there just look in the car section. Also find all posts in the forced induction forums on here, honda-tech.com, and dserieshonda, people with your same car will tell u there experiences- good and bad with it. I researched for about 8 months before I even ordered my kit.
2. Start out small 35 shot then to 55, and if u have ***** and a strong motor a 75 shot. I purchased a Nitrous Express Import Single Fogger Wet Kit. It sprays nitrous and fuel through the same nozzle and into the motor. I have never had a problem with the kit, great quality and customer service.
3. Purchase the Gen-x 2 upgrade kit it comes with a purge solenoid and tube, blow down tube(required if u race at a NHRA track), bottle heater, gauge and adapter. Good investment.
4. A few tips while spraying, DO NOT spray below 3000RPM u will have what is called nitrous backfire, with a wet kit spray u fuel into your intake manifold, at too low a rpm the velocity of air is not traveling fast enough to pull the fuel in too so it will puddle in your intake manifold and kaboom!!!!!!!! I backfired once at the track- black smoke everywhere, thought I broke something. Do not spray until redline I stop at 7000rpm on my Z6.
5. I would HIGHLY recommend buying a NX TPS switch, it only opens the solenoids at wide open throttle so u make sure you are not running lean. I also hooked up a MSD rpm acivated window switch so the solenoids will only open between 3000-7000rpm's. The MSD sends out a 12V- ground signal out in the certain rpm range. The tps requires a 12V+ and 12V- to operate so I hooked the output of the MSD to the ground of the TPS so even if I am at wide open throttle I cannot spray until the MSD box reads between 3000-7000rpm, this is a failsafe way to ensure safety for u and your motor.
6. Have your car dyno tuned to ensure your air/fuel ratio is within an acceptable range, I paid $55 for three pulls and tuning at my local shop.
7. Buy a air/fuel gauge even if it is the crappy autometer one like I have, it will tell u things u WILL want to know.
8. Buy colder spark plugs. I was running NGK ZFR6F-11 (1 step colder), they were fine for a 55 shot but melted when I went to a 75 shot. I now run NGK BKR7E (2 steps colder) they have held up fine.
9. Retard your timing like the nitrous manual says, u dont want to melt a piston (or melt spark plugs like I did) because of the high pressures, and temps. FMIDRC Racer threw a rod in his 1.5 minime block with a 55 dry Zex shot.
10. Be careful nitrous like boost is addictive u always want to turn it up a notch, but our stock motors or clutches were not meant from honda to make that much instant torque and horsepower, you will need to do some mods to reap the benefits.
11. Have a good open exhaust I run a Apexi N1 full catback, with a test pipe. It is also recommended to get a good header to let all those extra exhaust gases exit faster. I dont have a aftermarket header because I am going turbo soon and dont want to waste the money.
12. Change your fuel filter
13. Check my other posts in the forced induction forum, I have a few and gotten alot of great responses, just do a search. D-series.org helped me build my Z6.
14. I have and do still smoke mustangs and alot of other cars, people are so suprised how I pull away from them and then open my hood and they only see 1 cam gear.
15. Good luck please email me with any questions at sammydhoff@yahoo.com
Below are my dyno numbers with a 55 wet shot:
(I now run with a 75 shot but havent put it on the dyno yet)
Run #1 (Stock w/ bolt-ons) Max Power 117.8 Max Torque 99.6
Run #2 (NX 55 Wet Shot) Max Power 158.3 Max Torque 162.7
Below are my mods.
Z6 w/ stock internals
stock timing
NX 55 Wet shot
AEM short ram
pulleys
no A/C
apexi N1 catback
straight pipe
03-30-2006, 04:07 PM
#19
Senior Member
SL Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aurora, IL
Posts: 2,677
from
http://www.theultralightplace.com/sparkplugs.htm
The Ultralight Place
A lot can be learned about your Rotax engine condition as well as what it
sees by properly reading and "understanding" your spark plugs.
This page will show you pictures as well as explanations on cause and
effect of what you see when viewing your spark plugs. Look at the spark plug
porcelain for the color and condition of it. Plug colors can tell you how the
engine is running and can be very important. Plugs change colors and the
different colors can explain such things as if the engine is running too hot or
if the engine is worn. The color should be read by looking at the porcelain
insulator and compared to the plugs shown on the next few pictures.
A tan colored plug means that the engine is running normal and the air/fuel mixture is correct. This is the correct color a spark plug should be and it tells you everything is fine with the engine. You would install a new properly gapped plug.
When installing a new plug, replace the old one with the same heat range. This plug shows normal wear in the center electrode. A new plug would have square edges that helps the plug fire better.
This plug is worn out from being used for a long period of time. Notice how the center electrode is round and worn from use. A spark plug that is worn takes a lot more voltage to fire and can cause poor engine running.
This plug shows what can happen when something hits the spark plug. Something from inside the engine has hit the plug and this problem must be repaired before running the engine further. Make sure the spark plug is the correct length for the engine.
Excessive detonation has caused the porcelain on this plug to break away. If this engine is allowed to run, engine damage can occur. Make sure the fuel octane is high enough for the engines requirements.
A white colored plug is caused by engine overheating. Failure to repair this engine will result in severe engine damage. Common causes for this are:
Incorrect spark plug (too hot heat range).
Low octane fuel.
Timing is not set properly.
Cooling problems, (dirty cylinder fins, no or low water if water cooled, low or no engine oil).
Carburetor air/fuel mixture is too lean (too much air).
Leaking crankshaft seals, no oil, base or head gasket leaks, or crankcase leaks on two stroke engines.
This plug has ash deposits which are light brownish deposits that are encrusted to the ground and/or center electrode. This situation is caused by the type of oil used and adding a fuel additive.
This condition will cause a misfire. This can be also caused by changing oils in midstream.
This plug is oiled fouled, caused by poor oil control.
Pre-ignition, which will usually look as a melted center electrode and/or ground electrode. Check for incorrect heat range plug, over advanced timing, lean fuel mixtures or even hot spots or deposit accumulation inside the combustion chamber.
Sustained Pre-ignition, which will usually look as a melted or missing center electrode and/or ground electrode as well as a destroyed insulator. Check for incorrect heat range plug, over advanced timing, lean fuel mixtures or even hot spots
or deposit accumulation inside the combustion chamber.
Splashed deposits look as if they are small islands of contaminants on the insulator. This is usually caused by dirty carburetor bores or air intake.
A black dry fluffy colored plug is caused by deposits from a carburetor that is running too rich (too much gas), or excessive idling on some engines. Black smoke coming from the exhaust is a sign of a rich air/fuel mixture.
The rich air/fuel mixture must be repaired before installing a new spark plug. Common causes for a rich air/fuel mixture are:
dirty air filter.
air mixture screw or carburetor needs adjusting.
choke is sticking.
carburetor float height is out of adjustment or float is sticking open.
http://www.theultralightplace.com/sparkplugs.htm
The Ultralight Place
A lot can be learned about your Rotax engine condition as well as what it
sees by properly reading and "understanding" your spark plugs.
This page will show you pictures as well as explanations on cause and
effect of what you see when viewing your spark plugs. Look at the spark plug
porcelain for the color and condition of it. Plug colors can tell you how the
engine is running and can be very important. Plugs change colors and the
different colors can explain such things as if the engine is running too hot or
if the engine is worn. The color should be read by looking at the porcelain
insulator and compared to the plugs shown on the next few pictures.
A tan colored plug means that the engine is running normal and the air/fuel mixture is correct. This is the correct color a spark plug should be and it tells you everything is fine with the engine. You would install a new properly gapped plug.
When installing a new plug, replace the old one with the same heat range. This plug shows normal wear in the center electrode. A new plug would have square edges that helps the plug fire better.
This plug is worn out from being used for a long period of time. Notice how the center electrode is round and worn from use. A spark plug that is worn takes a lot more voltage to fire and can cause poor engine running. This plug shows what can happen when something hits the spark plug. Something from inside the engine has hit the plug and this problem must be repaired before running the engine further. Make sure the spark plug is the correct length for the engine. Excessive detonation has caused the porcelain on this plug to break away. If this engine is allowed to run, engine damage can occur. Make sure the fuel octane is high enough for the engines requirements. A white colored plug is caused by engine overheating. Failure to repair this engine will result in severe engine damage. Common causes for this are: Incorrect spark plug (too hot heat range).
Low octane fuel.
Timing is not set properly.
Cooling problems, (dirty cylinder fins, no or low water if water cooled, low or no engine oil).
Carburetor air/fuel mixture is too lean (too much air).
Leaking crankshaft seals, no oil, base or head gasket leaks, or crankcase leaks on two stroke engines.
This plug has ash deposits which are light brownish deposits that are encrusted to the ground and/or center electrode. This situation is caused by the type of oil used and adding a fuel additive.
This condition will cause a misfire. This can be also caused by changing oils in midstream.
This plug is oiled fouled, caused by poor oil control. Pre-ignition, which will usually look as a melted center electrode and/or ground electrode. Check for incorrect heat range plug, over advanced timing, lean fuel mixtures or even hot spots or deposit accumulation inside the combustion chamber. Sustained Pre-ignition, which will usually look as a melted or missing center electrode and/or ground electrode as well as a destroyed insulator. Check for incorrect heat range plug, over advanced timing, lean fuel mixtures or even hot spots or deposit accumulation inside the combustion chamber.
Splashed deposits look as if they are small islands of contaminants on the insulator. This is usually caused by dirty carburetor bores or air intake. A black dry fluffy colored plug is caused by deposits from a carburetor that is running too rich (too much gas), or excessive idling on some engines. Black smoke coming from the exhaust is a sign of a rich air/fuel mixture. The rich air/fuel mixture must be repaired before installing a new spark plug. Common causes for a rich air/fuel mixture are:
dirty air filter.
air mixture screw or carburetor needs adjusting.
choke is sticking.
carburetor float height is out of adjustment or float is sticking open.
Last edited by MR_LUV; 01-11-2018 at 03:29 AM.