The tC NA Potential...am I missing something?
 

I currently am planning on a full NA build for my Tc. The only thing is...

Why is it so difficult to bring one to even 200 whp with an NA setup.

I mean with the parts I have right now I am really feeling some spunk but I am sure with my current setup + me being totally catless I am probably not hitting over 155-160 whp. Anyone know how a fully built NA tC can stand up? I mean with my setup right now I am beating the new SI...but still... thats only a civic I am sure that youll ultimately get more bang for your buck by going FI...but since I am FWD, its my daily driver, and my first car I am tuning, I dont want to go all out just yet. not to mentioned the fact that you can pace yourself with your mods rather than just dumping 4 grand on a turbo.

anyways to conclude this, how does a full NA tC hold up out there?

you'll spend a lot more making it a 200whp N/A beast than if you just bolt on a turbo with engine management and a tune. To get 200 N/Awhp...you're gonna have to get internals and have a built engine...that alone costs too much. Now for your setup, you're gonna want to upgrade to at least a full exhaust setup and not just the Header and an axleback, you're gonna need pulleys also...

Give me all of your current mods, and ill tell you what your missing.

yeah you need a tranny upgrade prolly, definetely internals, fully built motor, yadda yadda yadda

yea I hear ya bro. But yea you are correct it does cost more but the only thing is if I want a turbo I gotta come up with like 4500 immediately to where going NA I can at least pace myself you know? but I mean whats the deal is 200 NA hp better than 200 turbo hp? cuz 200 still seems kinda low :(

If all you have is whats in your signiture, than im afraid you are not going to be beating any new SI anytime soo, granted they know how to drive.

You Shoulf have the basics:

Intake
Header
S-pipe
Exhaust

Then the following:

Pully's
lightned flywheel


Then when you have enough $$$$ saved up:

High compression pistons
cometic head gasket
P&P Head
AEM FI/C

... and then have it all tuned. You should be making OVER 200 whp.

The tC is an awsome powerplant for boost, but for N/A alot of people are staying away. its not a honda, and was never intended to be. But if you do wanna go the all motor route, stick with the list i gave you, itll probably be the road you need to travel down. once you do all of that, add a small 50 shot of nitrous. its not going to hurt anything at such a small shot, and you have an extra jolt of power at your finger tips.

One thing that is limiting on this motor for power is rpm. If you want to be serious about an all motor build, you want to significantly raise redline. Since a huge part of that is reducing overall piston velocity:

Have the block re-sleeved. May as well bore it out a bit if you do. I believe you can approach 2.6 liter... but it will take some research to be sure of that.

Have a custom crank and rods made to destroke the engine.

Run higher compression pistons.

Custom head work all the way around.

Custom intake an TB

Preferably something to control the vvti system

the right header and exhaust to tune it with the new setup.

The right engine management

I dont see this motor being a beast of an all motor setup, although if the parts were available, I would love to run a 200+ whp tc all motor just for the fun of the build. But it is not a cost effective way to build power on this car.

If you are talking serious all motor power on this car though, forget crap like pullies, CAI's, headers, exhaust without a full motor build. Bolt on power mods for this car really arent worth the money at all. Not that there is anything wrong with running them if you like them, but just dont expect much.

And with the mods you have listed in your profile, you are not beating any new si unless the person is asleep at the wheel. You have gained at most 5- 10 whp at best, and have also pulled power from other parts of the power band, so overall you are barely faster than you started off.

like engifineer said, it just isnt cost effective. whats the point of spending all the money just to get 200whp, and in the end, its still N/A. when you get to that point you're probably gonna be going 'ok, i have 200whp, but it still isnt enough, now what?'

it would be cheaper to buy a turbo kit and get it tuned, you'll be way over 200whp with that, more like near 300 depending on what you get and what boost you want to run. you'll save a lot of time and headaches, and with the right tune it'll still be a reliable daily driver.

I think the OP was only wanting to reach 200 WHP, but non the less, your input is whats really needed to go all out.

I think what most people miss about building NA power is how the manufacturer has worked to optimize already. If the tC were build with early 90's honda IHE technology, slapping an intake exhaust and header would probably make a nice difference, just as it did on those motors. Although if it had a shorter stroke motor that could rev faster, it would be even better. Over the years, there has been more pressure from the market to make the little 4 bangers quicker. The "easy" way was to keep up with improving intake, header and exhaust tuning rather than building faster revving, stronger engines with cutting edge valve technology. So that is where the money most likely went first, which is why newer cars respond much less to cheap bolt on mods. Just because an intake is bigger around does not make it any better for the motor. Just doesnt work that way. It is a full system, one part doest carry the weight.

dont get me wrong. If I had a short block around, some time and some spare dough, I would love to build one up, but if I was looking for power per dollar, it wouldnt be the way to go at all.

I think there was someone around here that said they were close to the 190 whp range... but they are running a LOT more mods, including high compression pistons. You wont get even in dreams reach with simple bolt ons.

definitely wish the tc reved faster, and had a higher redline. but then i guess it wouldn't be so great on gas which is what toyota was aiming at for the most part... cant have it all.

i'm going to do the following
p&p, gfi, high compression pistons, flywheel, valve springs and retainers, & racing valves

ithe gfi, i will make myself. however, i'm very much a car noob. i'm just going to buy all the other stuff and have someone install it. speaking of which how many valves do i need to buy? just 1 or more????


with that setup what kind of hp gain should i see????????????????????????????

if someone knows or has a pretty good idea could u please tell me :pray:

yeah one over sized adamantium valve should cover it .....

and id say with all that around 300whp but thats a conservative figure though. it could be much more . you should get a g-tech to street dyno it when your done and let us know

...

You will not hit 300WHP easily.

leslie Durst tC is NA and a professional drag car. They have UNLIMITED funds and have struggled for that 300WHP mark. It is not easy in a tC. If it was, the discussion wouldnt be asked so many times. Many people would do it.

its kind of opposite of Honda. Few turbo a honda because it can be done Naturally. And the opposite, few go N/A for a tC because it can be done easily turboed.

what you talking about Willis ...

300whp is cake ;)

If you are talking N/A then you no zero about the tC engine...

oh wait, just saw your cardomain and you think you have 170hp with just an intake and cheap exhuast.
Yeah willis, you dont know much about our engines.

this type of thing would do better on the XD side of life. NA is all they can do.