TRD Vortech Supercharger Seal Repair FAQ
 

These posts are my opinions and theories... Now go forth and read my endless babble then post away. Hope it helps some of you.

It has disturbed me for quite sometime that "from member testimonials" TRD is making people pay for a BRAND NEW supercharger unit if and when a seal goes bad or other issue for any kind of mods they may have related or not related. They know these people do not have the technical knowledge to fix it themselves or argue with any facts, so the resolution is drain there pocket books it seems.

I think that TRD has been taking advantage of the consumer by forcing them to replace the entire supercharger unit instead of replacing the seal. The customer would rather be billed for a seal repair than pay for the new supercharger. I know you are good to many and have honored many more warranties than you have denied, but some of the ones you have denied and what you have had the customer do / pay is beyond ridiculous.

I am actually angry enough about this stupidity that I have been begging people with leaking units to send me one at my expense. My supercharger is working flawless and I think I know why it is when others are not and I will post my theory later on.

Well anyways I got LUCKY and a cool local guy that goes by the handle of njdan69 in Tucson had bought a unit that was barely used from a kid that thought it was bad because it was leaking. Well I spoke with him today and he happened to be on the way to Chandler so we meet off the freeway so I could pick the unit up. I got home and the fun began!

Will not go into all the details yet of taking the supercharger apart but will show you the fun I had tonight.

Is the shaft seal replaceable?
Yes. Read down below for part numbers. This BS of TRD making you buy another blower is either a dealer scam or TRD BS. Toyota / Scion need to look into how TRD is handling this issue big time as they are turning a massive profit off double selling entire supercharger units to customers.

Will a header cause this seal to fail?
In my personally opinion NO. The seal sits DEEP inside the housing. It consistently has oil directly on the seal which should keep the seal at or near working oil temperature. Also the seal pretty much isolates itself from the item it is pressed into. Heat from the header will heat up the housing which can lose you power, but since the shaft literally does not touch the housing at ANY point except the bearings at the pulley end, heat would not transfer to the shaft to make it anywhere near hot enough to cause a seal failure.

Is the jack shaft (with the 3 Allen bolts) another cause of seal failure because of over-torquing or torquing before install?
From what I see, this could cause the shaft to couple at a slight angle causing noise, vibration or slight wear on the coupler pins. Could affect wear on the main gear shaft bearings as well but would most likely be over a LONG period of time, would have to measure how tight the couplers press into each other or if they fit with some slack which I think they do similar to an Eaton supercharger nose drive. However the seal that is leaking seals off the main shaft of the SC which is separate from the long shaft This shaft rides on two massive bearing assemblies inside the supercharger. Unless the bearings or something is out of spec, the shaft should not ever move enough to warp the seal or damage it. Also note the long shaft is free floating inside the shiny tube. Only the bearings on the pulley end support the long shaft, and when the coupler is mated from the long shaft to the supercharger housing, that is what braces the shaft. If the unit is twisted in any way or not installed correctly to relieve stress then it will put pressure on the bearings on the pulley side possibly causing a failure there over a period of time. But I do not see it as a direct cause of seal failure... Basically no matter what, installing the unit right is 100% key to the unit’s lifespan.

The jack shaft where people spot oil coming out is a decent distance from the actual seal. Oil would have to be building up over time and seeping into the shaft area then seeping out, if you spot a tiny dark area of oil or oil residue your supercharger is NOT BAD. If your seal was flowing oil to the point of a LEAK then, then you would see oil dripping. And if it is dripping then it is new seal time. In reality the jack shaft area has no seals on it at all. Just metal to metal. If ANY oil drips into the hollow shaft area past the main seal, even a single drop will spread and eventually come out a crack and collect dust which makes it visible. Another thing to consider...

You’re using WAY TO THIN OF OIL! DUH! *LOL* I have heard many of you talk about how you use 0w20 with the sc or 5w20 or 0w30... These oils are practically water. No seal on this planet is going to keep this weight of oil back with good success and not seep out a little over time. I highly recommend you use at least a 5w40 in winter or 10w40 in summer. This will help you in the long run and slow oil from getting past any seals. Will also help the bearings in the superchager housing.

Is the entire engine under pressure?
On the intake manifold you have a traditional breather hose that comes off the valve cover into the intake manifold, and another into the intake. Well guess what happens when you go into boost? You're pressurizing your entire engine case! The drain tube from the sc is connected to the oil pan. This would cause a pressure build up in the sc housing itself while under boost and sure as heck would help degrade a seal quicker or contribute to oil passing the seal into the shaft assembly. I highly recommend you cap off the manifold and route your breather line to a catch can or back into the intake "I prefer a catch can to keep the intake assembly clean and keep buildup from happening on your intake valves and ports." Also oil vapor lowers octane which can cause your engine to pull timing and then a loss of power if it senses knock. The best part about fixing this issue is you will gain throttle response and I gained around 1-1.5 psi across the board which means I was most likely leaking a small amount of boost back into the intake. All of the above... not good. Mine has been bypassed since install. I have no seal issues at all. I also use 10w40 year round in the mild to hot climate of AZ. So far so good for me.

One of my supporting facts in the case pressurizing theory is that this particular supercharger I am toying with was / is practically BRAND new. I was told the kid who originally purchased it thought it would be best trying to use an e-manage instead of TRD's flash. When done correctly this would work out just fine. However I do not think he had it tuned correctly (or at all) and also had upped the boost via a pulley. This combo is deadly without correctly tuned management or the TRD flash. 9psi or so with no management or not properly tuned management will result in detonation / piston ring land failure which is what happened to him. Now when I got to this sc, it had quite a bit of fresh oil blown past the main shaft seal and oil all over the freakin place. Now the crazy part is, the seal is PERFECT. There is no deterioration of the seal, no wear spots, no hard cooked rubber. I feel the blow-by pressure from when he cracked the ring lands built up pressure in the sc housing much like when you go into boost and it pressurizes the bottom end via the breather line.. when this happened it helped press a large amount of oil out of the seal as that is the only place the pressure could escape. Either way pressurizing your engine case is NOT desirable...

What about bearing failure?
Last fun item to guess about is the bearing failure a few have complained about. After really looking over the sc unit, my #1 thought on the matter is loss of lubrication. Inside the gear housing is a nozzle that is visible in the photos that sprays oil directly into the gears which in turn fling oil all over heck and back. This very small nozzle gets clogged by anything for even a short time would case mass destruction inside this housing with the speed at which things are spinning. Would be interested to know if any of the bearing failures happened right after or soon after an oil change or service.…. Just a though…

Well anyways enough of my rant about this. Now what you guys wanted to see. TRD SC GUTS. I am going to do what I can to find the right parts for this baby as vortech is 100% an American company. That means they most likely use American parts... Such as ARP bolts *LOL* Yes sir, your good old sc shaft is held together by ARP! The bearings are very nice high RPM units. I nailed part numbers off the impeller shaft bearings and it looks like they are custom made for vortech as it has vortechs name on them which means replacing these would be VERY difficult but not impossible. The main gear shafts monster bearings however have no writing on them, probably on the bottom side were you cannot see them. They are a much lower RPM bearing and most likely a common part which will have to be found. However with a precision item like this unit and the speeds at which it turns... if there is a bearing failure most likely there is going to be a mess inside the gear housing and possibly metal dumped through the oil return line so in the chance you have bearing issues... highly unlikely the unit will be able to be salvaged.. In my mind anyways...

Update, part numbers below[/b]


https://www.scionlife.com/tech/image...SHAFTSEAL1.jpg


https://www.scionlife.com/tech/image...SHAFTSEAL4.jpg


https://www.scionlife.com/tech/image...SHAFTSEAL3.jpg


https://www.scionlife.com/tech/image...FTANDSEAL1.jpg


https://www.scionlife.com/tech/image...ITHCOUPLER.jpg


https://www.scionlife.com/tech/image...AFTWITHARP.jpg


https://www.scionlife.com/tech/image...own_tc/ARP.jpg


https://www.scionlife.com/tech/image..._tc/GEARS1.jpg


https://www.scionlife.com/tech/image...EDBEARING1.jpg


https://www.scionlife.com/tech/image...INBEARING1.jpg


https://www.scionlife.com/tech/image...c/CASESEAL.jpg


https://www.scionlife.com/tech/image...INGWASHERS.jpg


https://www.scionlife.com/tech/image...tc/COUPLER.jpg


https://www.scionlife.com/tech/image...c/COUPLER2.jpg


https://www.scionlife.com/tech/image...ERIMPELLER.jpg

25-40-7 Is the metric size of the seal.. Just a standard automotive seal from what I can tell. Very common size. Found some on this site in viton or NBR... Perfect hehehehe Should be able to be purchase from most autoparts stores but will verify that

Forgot to add, looks like they used some sort of adhesive to hold the seal in place... wonder of on some seals this adhesive did not hold and the seal moved or twisted a tad.. just a thought... Should not be able to as tight as the fit should be but who knows...

http://www.jwwinco.com/products/sect...ls/type_as.htm

Buy a whole new SC my @ss... Like a $2.99 seal haha.

Later on I will tear down the pulley side to log the bearing numbers... hopefully I can get some info off them as they are sealed and most likley to go out first on a properly installed sc... "just another one of my crazy theories.."

i hope you will offer a rebuild kit

someday

somtime

.. gb

atta-boy!!!!!!!!! :bow: :clap: so in your opinion the sealed bearing would be the cause of the bad bearing noise

Ohhh... coo, found the exact seal vortech is useing... Pic is universal, but the identicle seal and part number.

http://www.chicago-rawhide.com/Catal...ail.asp?s=9725

All this stuff is off the shelf stuff man. Basic auto parts stuff except the speed rated bearings.. those could be a pain to find locally for most..... probably just an easy online order. I am not out to make cash in this, just trying to help out the community from getting taken advantage of.

It very well could be if the shaft is trying to twist the bearing on the pulley end by being at a slight angle rather being straight in line with the sc input shaft which would happen if the jackshaft was tight before install or what TRD says... "over torqued" Not sure on the over torque if it can cause anything... looks like it would have to collapse part of the case to make a difference the way it is built, After checking it out in detail, feels like it is just common trd lingo when telling you your sol on warranty to say.. "uh.. it was overtorqued!"

Most I have read about are talking about bearings inside the sc going. That to me on a new or newer sc unit would come from a clogged oil nozzle.,,, Everyone just goes off what the dealers tell them. They hear a nasty noise under the hood and take it in and say "fix it" Then the fun begins. Who knows what most dealers really find vs what they tell you. Or most may not be bright enough to diagnose an issue in the first place. Never know... dealers are so hit and miss when it comes to knowing what they are doing.





Also remember, all this is my speculation *LOL* Just stabbing at logical reasons for these very odd issues... some may be dead on and some may be dead wrong. But at least we are thinking about it rather than letting the crappy dealers remove our wallets right out of our pockets, steeling our money on minor issues that they claim are HUGE..

yeah a lot off what i heard are the issues,after looking at the pics don't make sense. Sad really.

Re: TRD VORTECH SC RANT / SEAL INFO AND REPAIR INFO 56k NO W
 

thanks for the great post. about the 5w30, most don't know any better, as trd says to use this in their install manual.
and on the clogging theory, what is a way to combat that? and does changing the viscosity make that problem more apt to occur?
if you think the oil might coke up that nozzle, would an oil cooler help?

Thanks again for yanking that thing apart for me, I am glad that you were able to track down the part numbers and share them with the rest of the community.

Re: TRD VORTECH SC RANT / SEAL INFO AND REPAIR INFO 56k NO W
 

Yeah I understand trd is going with toyota on the 5w30 because of legal reasons... but for forced induction I personally still feel it is to thin. 5w40 in the winter is what I would advise. Also without some sort of an inline filter, not sure how to combat that "not that it is even a proven problem with our cars, just a theory"

I would say changing viscosity would definitly not cause the problem to increase, I think it will help the lifespan of the sc, bearings and gear assembly as well as better protect your bottom end from the torture of forced induction. As far as coke build up, sure it is possible but I would not think to the point of clogging unless you tried to make a good old 10K mile between oil change run. Or used some horrid brand of oil such as penzoil "aka coke in a bottle" Even then... not sure if it would actually clog with that much oil pressure pushing through. But a small solid peice of pretty much anything could stop it up.

No thank you man for having some trust in me to tear apart your toy :) You will be boosted soon I predict haha!

i hear ya. i was just following your theory on the bearing failure if the nozzle got jammed. so i was wondering if an oil cooler would decrease the possibility of that. or would oil temp have no relationship to that?

are you changing every 3k since the s/c?

Never logged oil temps on the scion.. I would imagine it would definitly help out and not hurt. Mabey someone on here has an oil temp gauge and can shed some light on how oil temps are doing on our cars? Also oil temp should not have a direct influence on the nozzle clogging unless the oil started to break down and get so hot that it would get chunky....

I change my oil every 2500 miles on my boosted cars. And from the looks of the oil at 2500, it is time :)

I don't know about that nozzle clogging. That looks small but that is a still a pretty big hole. The only thing i can see really clogging it is maybe contamination from install. So my s/c rattles like crazy but my buddies does the same thing, looking at the photos are those dowel pins tight on those hubs. Or were they pretty loose when they connect to the shaft hub?

Garage... ABSOLUTELY GREAT JOB!!!!! Even if they are your 'theories', you did a huge service to the tC SC community and I personally want to thank you!!! Real dedication to our cause!!!!

Two questions:


I was told that on my 1st SC, the 'gear clearance' was bad... They replaced the whole SC at no cost to me (but broker the tamper proof cap on the old and the new install... go figure)................... I am a desk jockey, but even I thought that the 'gear clearance' line sounded like a load of horse hockey...


1) Would those gears be inside the housing or on the pulley side?

I don't have (have never had) a smaller pulley (would love to, but until this crud gets worked out...)

2) Would a smaller pulley, say the 9.5 pulley which seems to be the safest, create gear / bearing issues?

The tube looks big, but the outlet hole at the end of the tube is less than .5mm.. it is very very small. And like I said, I feel it would take some sort of solid object to clog it... Mabey a call to vortech would shed more light on what can clog it.

As for the coupler fitting, I just put it together, it fits very snug and I could not see it being the cause of the rattle. What weight oil are you useing..? I have next to no rattle useing 10w40. Everything sounds smooth with a clean typical vortech whine. Pure music haha!

the typical 5-30