Blacklistcustomz

So i decided that its time to replace my subs. They are sitting in a quarter wave designs box (apparently they no longer exist) and i need to replace that box with something allowing me to still store my spare tire. So i am looking around for a new box, and a new sub.

As of right now i am running 2 12 inch rockford fosgates on a 300watt rf amp. However i am planning on selling the whole setup if anyone is interested...





Now i want a more powerful sub, maybe around 500 or 600 watts in a sealed box, so i still get power, but none of that distortion/port noise. I thought about buying the rockford fos"breaks" power t1, but people trash them saying they have tremendous distortion. I need a clean sounding, no distortion sub, that i will definately hear, but not blow my eardrums out. So maybe like 400 or 500 watts is better. My choices as of right now are:

Elemental designs 110v.2
Alpine type R
MTX thunder 8500
JL audio 12W6v2

Along with any of those, other recommendations are welcome.

And if there is any genius of subwoofers out there, please help me with understanding how the size affects the sound. I understand that the larger the diameter, the lower it can go, which is good, but do you lose the higher notes? Such as can a 12 inch subwoofer hit higher bass than a 15 inch? and can the 15 inch hit lower? I am leaning more toward the JL audio 13W6v2 because it is inbetween a 12 and 15 but if anyone knows anything let me know. And dont try to act like you know stuff if you dont, i want honest answers.

But anyways, All in all, i need a sub, anything from 12 to 15 inches, from 400 to 600 watts (600 is pushing it as i would like to actually hear my music, and not just bass), and a box that won't take up too much room in the back of the tc. Any box recommendations would be helpful too (or companies that make custom boxes). Let me know if you know anything or have any recommendations. None of you "think you know all about subwoofers but you really dont" people

lil_will

Go to the forums at caraudio.com educate yourself a little bit so you can make a smart purchase.

exige

i dont know where to start on this one...there's a lot of info that needs to be written here. umm...usual recommendation... www.bcae1.com

every beginner needs to take a good hard look at that site. anything thats explained there im not gonna gonna cover because its pointless to rewrite all that info.

first off....subs don't produce watts...amps do. got a problem with distortion? one of two things is probably happening. either: too LITTLE power, or the drivers have met their maximum excursion/thermal capacity. anytime you hear distortion, something's wrong and adjustments need to be made....the volume **** is your best friend. if a speaker doesnt sound right, something is probably wrong. examine.

distortion and port noise are two entirely different things. distortion is produced by the subs as a result of the amps or source of music. port noise has to do with the enclosure that the subs are using.

the subs you mentioned are on all different spectrums. you've got budget selections, all out SQ selections, expensive stuff, crappy stuff, etc.

the power required for the sub, in most cases, will not dictate how loud it is when comparing to other subs. there are MANY other variables. a very important one is sensitivity. this is a measure of how loud a speaker is. the higher, the better. so when you say "600 watts is pushing it because i want to hear my music".....this statement is very far off.

i could put a TC Sounds TC-3000 15" in my car....throw 1800 watts rms to it...and it'll eat it up with room for more. and guess what? ill have solid bass with plenty of musicality, and ill still be able to hear my music. will it be louder than your average 300-watt rms rated sub? sure, but will i be able to hear my music clearly? yes. point is....watts that a sub can take does not have the effect you're mentioning.

the size of a sub can be very misleading. when i look at the size of a sub...here's what i take away from it: surface area. i dont take away that because its a 12, it will go tons lower than a 10 will. or that because its a 12, it will get way louder than the 10. nope, no way. all of these things are dependent on the enclosure. a 10 in a properly designed ported enclosure can very easily be louder than a 12 in a sealed enclosure.

enclosure is one of the largest determinants in how a sub will sound.

a JL 13W6V2 does not belong on the same page as an Alpine Type-R, or an eD 110v.2. no disrespect to either of those subs, as they are both very nice, but if pricing alone isnt enough to distinguish each of those subs then i dono what is.

for a box builder, i recommend fisher customs (www.fishercustoms.com)

there's so many sub options that i dont even know where to start, but if you're willing to spend the money for a 13W6V2, then i suggest you get a new sheet and start all over with choices. because there's so many individual subs, i'm just going to list companies that produce quality subs. you can investigate each company individually. this is not an end-all, be all list. it is simply a list for starters. it will include companies with pricing at all ends of the spectrum. notes will be included....sometimes opinions on the companies, sometimes notes on which subs to look at

Fi - Q is a great sub
Stereo Integrity - Mag is one of the best subs around
RE Audio - decent, but just get Fi
SoundSplinter - built by TC Sounds, nuff said.
Focal
CDT - HD and ES
Diamond
DLS
Rainbow
Phoenix Gold - budget
Alpine - Type R, Type X
Hertz (Elletromedia) - not necessarily worth the price, but check it out
Boston Acoustics - G2 and higher
Dynaudio
Eclipse - higher end only
Image Dynamics - IDQ or IDMAX only
eD - O series
JL - W6V2 and W7
Infinity
JBL - specifically the GTi series
Polk - SR
Zapco


there are many, many more companies out there. this is a starter list. you'll notice subs that are designed for SPL and subs that are designed for SQ. you want SQ obviously based on what you said above. two companies are purposely left off the list - kicker, and digital designs.....loud, but sound quality is lower than many competitors

decide on a sub, then choose an amp. we'll look at amps later....it's another topic that i dont want to get into just yet til you've chosen your subs.

hope this is a start

hawgs74

Ill put my Fusion's toe to toe with JL, Kicker, or anybody else. They have 3 product lines so u can always find something in your price range. Im rocking the Power Plant Heavy Duty 12's which handle 1200w max. Check my sig. or profile for pics.

exige

again...we're not on the same page. JL and Kicker don't belong together in the first place, secondly...have you heard a W6 or W7? Granted they're expensive, but Fusion's will not go toe-to-toe with them. If Fusions subs did, "everyone" would have one.

I'm not saying I endorse CA&E mag...frankly, I hate them. However they were to the point on this one with the Klippel stuff.. http://www.caraudiomag.com/testrepor...fer/index.html

Fusion can't touch that.

hawgs74

According to my trophy collection they do...

And I used to run two 10w7's ... JL audio is overpriced and your mostly paying for the name.

But to each his own.

nebster

hahahahahaha your trophy collection... go to usaci or meca then talk

hawgs74

I have a 5ft usaci trophy... thank u very much

nebster

from usaci finals ? awesome pics?

nebster

and i'd like to see your name on this sheet, if you could please point it out to me that'd be fantastic

http://www.soundoff.org/supportfiles...sults42007.pdf

trialsindude

I dont think anything that is neon GREEN will win any sort of trophies! LOL

But look into anything that Exige listed, that will be a good place to start.

To each its own, I've owned plenty of subs, now sitting on a 12" Arc Audio Flatline, nice little booger.

SiKoTiC

I can Any one of those subs pretty cheap. Shoot me a PM.

SePaTc

i've got a good deal of experience with subs, as I used to be an installer.

i would recommend either 2 10s or 1 12. as these two configurations will output about the same SPL with equivalent power input. In the tc, both of these setups will be MORE than enough. you don't need 2 12s or 1 15.

if you can't make your own box, Q-logic makes nice ones.

a 15" sub will play the same frequency range (give or take) as smaller (10/12"), it just won't have the same response, and thus the bass won't be as sharp or punchy. However it will play low end notes much more effortlessly than smaller subs.

in general, the larger the speaker, the more "boomy" the sound, while smaller subs are "punchier". THough with the advanced quality of todays subs, its pretty easy to find a nice compromise of both.

obviously, most all of the aforementioned brands make nice subs, but I will throw one more name into the Hat. Audiobahn. I've been running 2 10" audiobahn sound q aluminum cone subs off a 600 w high current a/b audiobahn amp for the last 3+ years in the tc.... had absolutely not ONE issue with either the amp or subs. not even so much as a blown fuse. plus, the sound is very tight, clean and accurate, and I can rumble my neighbors out of bed if i really want to. any louder, and my ears would be bleeding. people like to talk crap on audiobahn, but my experience has been GREAT. dollar for dollar, a GREAT brand. and i think most people who have run audiobahn will agree.

they also have a very varied product line for everything from beginner to pro. and some great specs and info on the website. i would really highly recommend checking them out.

alll i know is, don't waste your money on JL when you can get the same sound from many other brands.

exige

i have run audiobahn when i was noob and i was first starting, and i disagree. dont waste the money there.

nebster

just because they didn't break doesn't make them good.....

exige

Blacklistcustomz

Alright i have narrowed it down to these four subs:

JL audio 12W6v.2
Stereo integrity SI mag 12"
Soundsplinter RL-p12
Fi.Q 12"

I plan on running one of these subs by an Alpine PDX 1.600 amp, with street wires.

As of the moment, I plan on buying the Stereo integrity SI mag 12" sub, or the Soundsplinter RL-p12 sub because of exige's recommendation. I trust his judgement as he sounds fairly knowledgeable about this stuff.

Exige: Which of those subs do you think is a better choice, and how is the amp i chose? Along with that, I plan on getting a 1.35 cubic ft sealed box made some way by fisher customs. Finally, give me some insight on wiring. I kind of just put some wires here and there for my old subs and made them work

Otherwise i am thinking about just taking it to dashworks in my town and have them hook it up. Thanks for all your help

trialsindude

If you are gonna go with the SI or the SS, flip a coin. They are both equally good.

exige

The two subs, although both are great....are not exactly equal. The Mag is a bit more SQ oriented, IMO, whereas the RL-P is a bit better for SPL. However, to each his own opinion.

All of those you listed are great choices Blacklist. The order that I would go with them is the following:

SI Mag
Fi Q
JL W6V2
SS RL-P

Mag gives you the best of both worlds...SQ and SPL. the Q is a close second, and it can get quite loud. The W6 will not get as loud as the Q or Mag, but its SQ is very, very good. The RL-P is a great sub with real solid output, but I think against these subs here, its SQ can get put down a little bit.

Be aware of one thing only. The Mag is not currently available. It's in the process of a revamp, and when it's done, it will be even more SQ oriented and less SPL oriented. Nick is trying to achieve the maximum possible SQ. I would estimate about 1.5-2 months from ship date right now (but heck i could be very far off with that)

The Mag will still be more expensive than the Q when the price drop comes via direct pricing. I would anticipate pricing in the higher $300-lower $400 range at my best guess.

So with that all being said, for the money, I think the Q would be just fine fo you. However, you have one problem left. As I said earlier...choose the amp after you choose the sub. By going with the Alpine, the only truly compatible sub is gonna be the JL. Everything else is gonna require more than 600 watts for best sound. 1kw is probably a good bottom-line for how much you'll need. the optimal amount for the Q is about 1200w RMS. there's many amps that will work for the purpose, but the first step is to decide which sub you want. after that, we can choose what amp to go with.

Blacklistcustomz

However, the thing is that i dont want to run a 1200 watt amp, because to me that is too much power.

If i had a 1200 watt amp, does that mean i would constantly have to run the subwoofer and amp at that amount of power? Or could i run them lower around 400 to 600 watts... i dont want 1200 watts in the open trunk of the tc. That would be more than loud... That would make my heart have its own heart attack.

Would the Fi SSD be a better choice in this case?