BrEaK_AwaY

yup. so for the chump change u spent on that cheap (imo) pulley, you will now (more than likely) have to replace your entire engine on ur tab. regardless if the pulley really caused the issue, they can always blame it on that. now lets say you had an after market header and had the same problem.... they would have a much harder time fighting it. just be wise about the mods you do

equinox2355

Well hard to tell 100% but it doesnt look like oil failure in the least, because there was oil in the supercharger (otherwise the s/c would've died)

im hoping toyota will rectify their mistake.

etli

In Equinox's case , the rod snapped down where it joins the crankshaft. - on the #1 (?) piston (or is it # 4? I can't remember).

There was no pre-existing oil leak - or at least none that we could tell - the Supercharger was intact and wasn't leaking anywhere. However, Equinox didn't have an underdrive / lightweight pulley at the time.

Dublin Toyota/ Scion did screw equinox at the time because they just assigned cause to the engine failure without a real investigation - "Lack of oil".... Ehm- NO- the lack of oil in the engine when it got to Dublin Toyota's shop was a SYMPTOM of the rod POKING A HOLE IN THE SIDE OF THE ENGINE BLOCK. DE-de-DEEEEE. On that basis, they denied warranty.

Bear in mind, the tc engine is NOT intended for "racing applications". It is an ECONOMY motor on an ECONOMY car. It (apparantly) does not hold up to extra loading from the top (SC / Turbo) and /or from the bottom (LSD, launches, etc.) very well.

equinox2355

ya it was piston #1 and what bugs me most of all is that they sold the S/C and if the motor cant handle it why sell the S/C for it (well besides to make money)

I dont race my car, I do drive pretty spirited though... Most of the time though I am driving like my parents, especially on the freeway, steady speed, usually staying in the same lane, etc.

Whocares05050

Goes to show the tC motor is either a hit or miss. some people have issues, and others do not.

Indemnity83

I disagree about the motor not being able to hold up to the extra loading. There are thousands of people with S/C and other forms of forced induction that have no problems whatsoever. Many more than those who do.

Indemnity83

Along the same lines as above, I don't think its the motor thats the problem. I think its the people via either neglect or misinformation that are hurting the motors more than poor design and construction on Toyota's part.

That doesn't mean there aren't sour apples though.

engifineer

I agree. While I dont doubt there have been engines that had issues on thier own (every product line can have some bad runs), I feel that most of these are due to what Indemnity just said.

Also, the comment that there was oil in the SC, so it wasnt an oil issue is incorrect. Just because there was oil in any part of the engine does not mean there was sufficient pressure and volume to lubricate well.

equinox2355

True, but the fact that no warning lights came on at all and it seemed pretty normal up until the actual problem, makes me think that it was something else and that toyota was using that as a cop out... that and there was quite a bit of oil in the motor (considering that 2 big holes in the side of the block)

engifineer

Oil lights are worthless. I have blown crank seals on the highway and not see any warning light until the car had less than 1 qt left (and a destroyed timing chain due to no tension on it once the pressure dropped). If you are boosting, an oil gauge is a MUST imo. I would almost consider putting one on a stock motor. The dummy light is not much help at all many times. And having it full of oil doesnt mean it is pumping it correctly, or that a passage isnt blocked.

etli

No part of the engine appeared burned or blackened - except of course where the rod and crankshaft had slammed into the walls of the block. The piston slid easily out of the block after the engine was removed. All the seals on the piston looked great.

As to pressure and volume - Well, we can't PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt that the engine is full of oil. But considering the hole was in the side of his block, and that there was still 1.5 quarts in the engine after the lovely folks at Dublin drained out the rest of the motor, the rest of his oil was probably left all over the highway when the rod snapped.

equinox2355

I agree with you that the oil lights are worthless now, and as you can tell from my signature I now have oil pressure and oil temp gauges for my motor. In any case it would've been near impossible for me to have prevented this from happening.

Indemnity83

Equinox's problem looks like one of those sour apples. The OP's problem on the other hand, looks like it had a cause we can pinpoint (and wasn't part of the OE).

engifineer

I wasnt saying that oiling was definitely the cause, only that you cant tell from the first info you posted. The inside of the engine can tell you more as you are describing. By volume I dont mean the amount of oil in the car, I mean the volume the pump is moving. You need both pressure and volume moving through the oil passages to do the job properly. You can have a full crank case, but a bad pump will not move enough volume to oil properly. If you have blockage in an oil passage, the pressure at the pump and up to that blockage can be sufficient, but you arent moving any oil. That is what I mean about not being able to say that it was full of oil and the light wasnt on, so the oiling system didnt fail.

If there were no signs of oiling related damage to the engine, then they had no room to use that as an excuse. Did you ask them to show proof of this? The amount of oil in the engine when they got it is irrelavant. If no scarring, discoloring, etc was present and no oil operated components seemed to be the cause, then they cant say oil loss was the issue.

But, a rod bearing fails because it spins, gets trash in it, has undue stress applied (including excessive vibration at the right frequency) or is not oiled correctly. And spinning will occur if oiling stops or is insufficient for long enough to heat it up enough. I have never seen a bearing simply fail out of no where unless the oiling system was to blame or it fails of a long period due to excessive mileage (old age) and wears out.

engifineer

And again I am not saying that his was not a bad apple or that it was his fault, cause I dont know the story. But a spun or failed bearing in that manner points to an intermittent (at least) problem with the oiling system. Then, once it spins it is all over of course, since it stops oiling completely and totally burns up and seizes. But, the dealer still cant really say that he was low on oil and caused it since they had no way to know or prove that.

Scorpius01

I looked at the other posts that you had up. The pic of the damaged rod. That rod is blued half way up. About half the motors I have pulled on oil starved toyota motors the pistons are not damaged, the damage is localized on the rod and the crank. It is where it broke on that

is the alt pulley and S/C pulley new editions, or were they on the car when it went down? sorry if you have answered that already but I did not see it any where.

Also did you take apart the other rods and look at the bearings? If so what did they look like?

Were the mains pulled? If so what did they look like?

If you could post pics that would be great.

How those other items look could help or hurt your case.

engifineer

If the oiling stops at the rod, it takes very little time to heat up, sieze and spin the bearing. So as scorpius mentioned, that can stop one quickly without necesarrilly destroying the top end or rings.

equinox2355

lo_bux_racer

You need pics of all the mains and all the rod bearings to support your claim. If none of the other bearings show signs of oil starvation, you clearly had a defective rod in #1. Improper side clearance can easily do this, but typically this doesn't take long to show up in a build.

Very little oil is required in a cylinder to keep the piston happy. The majority of the problems from oil starvation show up in the crank and rod bearings. Their life expectancy is entire dependent on a continuous supply of clean oil. Any shortage is the kiss of death.

If all the rod bearings look bad (copper showing, babbit missing, scoring, etc.) then the crank was oil starved without doubt. Finding the root cause of this will determine who really is liable for fixing the engine.

Something most people don't realize: oil pumps do not make pressure. They only pump oil. Pressure is a byproduct of the pumping, and your oil pressure is primarily determined by your rod and main bearing clearances. Side clearance on the rods can also play a significant role in determining oil pressure.

Finally, you should check the end play on the crank to see if it walked. If the crank spit out a thrust washer, it could very easily spin a rod bearing and break a rod.

Lots of stuff to look for and investigate if you expect to arrive at the real reason it failed.

SePaTc

i can sum it up for you very easily.... its a camry motor. not designed to withstand 36,XXX miles of boosted abuse from a 20 year old who drives "spirited".

toyota knew this when then started the brand. they knew kids were going to be modding (voiding the warranty) and blowing (over boosting) their motors. Its just more $$$ for toyota corp. U know how hard it is to take on Toyo Corp when u have those mods that u have??? You'll never win.

better start saving $$$.