udelslayer

Ah. I see they have a kit for caddy's and this motor lol....

/sigh... I guess you had to do this because you're swapping in the newer head. Looks like you wont the junk parts lottery with those pistons though. Methinks somebody did a rebuild or an update recently considering the new pistons. I was under the impression that the heads were interchangeable but I'm glad to see this thread.

With your engine "seizing" were you able to crank it anyway? I dont have experience with seized motors and trying to evaluate its condition before cracking anything open too much because once you do that, its a slippery slope imho.

Wouldn't you consider a BS delete, or not because its a DD for your lady? I did the BS delete in my qr25de (specv) and the buzz wasn't even noticeable after a few days and I had window weld filled mounts.

I may be going the rebuild route for a cheap good conditioned car just bought that might have a jacked motor. I'm going to try to find a long block to avoid reinvention, but this is a toy/hobby project I've just started getting into. I'm working on a hyperfast education about these cars and absorbing everything I can while i'm troubleshooting the condition. Thanks for putting up the library of pictures. They can explain and answer questions I have.

Y2KG20

Yep, the caddy's use the same thread head bolts. Between the old blocks and new blocks you can swap anything back and forth. You just have to keep the head bolts with the same block they came from. If using a 06 under block I suggest drilling, tapping, new inserts just because of the head gasket / coolant issues.

When I bought this car I was told it had a taping and that he thought it just needed a set of rod bearings. He included a engine rebuild kit that he bought but was too scared to get into after seeing all of the parts. I only used the seal kit and piston rings. When I went to pick it up I just worked out a deal and gave him cash, I didn't even start it because I figured it was toast anyway. I started it up to put on our trailer and it ran for about 30secs and died. I restarted it and it did the same thing... I thought "yep the crank is catching traction" so it took awhile cranking and finally started and I had to keep reving it and ran it up on the trailer as fast as I could and it died as soon as it got up there, at this point it was making quite a bit of noise. The guy felt bad and gave me $200 off what we agreed on too When I took apart the 08' two rod bearings were completely trashed and paper thin. There was a pile of bearing material in the bottom of the pan. The pump finished the job by recycling the metal particles to the remaining bearings. I didn't try to start it again, just pushed it off the trailer.

The reason I just used the 04' complete shortblock was that it was recently rebuilt by Toyota had maybe 2 years use. I wanted to throw the 04' rotating assembly in the 08' block but the pistons in the 04' were 3 different sizes and the 08' block had 4x "B" size pistons. So I just fixed the old block with new inserts and tossed the 08' shortblock to the side. I reused the head and cams because #1 I believe the 08' has .2 CR higher but could be in the pistons I didn't measure. #2 Cams are more aggressive.

I was going to remove the balance shafts but decided not to on her car. If I ever get one to turbo I'll remove them and see how much it vibrates. Being a stroker I bet they rattle pretty good down low without them but it would be nice to get the 5-10 lbs of rotating crap out of the pan and free up a little HP and rev a bit faster

Honestly it's not too expensive to rebuild one. Here is what's into mine:
Insert Kit with tools $340 - If you know somebody with the tools you can get the inserts for $100
04' Longblock $200 - Upull yard
Felpro MLS laser welded head gasket $46 Oreilly
Fel Pro Head bolts w/ washers $39 Oreilly
Piston rings $25 Ebay
Engine gasket set $37 Ebay
3.5" Ball hone $50 Ebay
Permatex ultra grey $7 Oreilly
Bucket of Berryman chem dip "CARB PARTS CLEANER" $28 Oreilly auto
Total seal GREEN plastigauge $2 Oreilly

If you replace rod or main bearings always order the factory toyota bearings. Aftermarkets are usually waaaay off and you will need several sets to dial in the correct clearance. Mine were still within factory clearance range and no visible scratches so I didn't replace any.

udelslayer

Thanks for the info.

Can the 06 ecu run a 07-10 motor without issues? I'd also want to use the newer motor considering the slightly better cams and CR. I'd be running the same sensor setup as the 06, and I dont want to mess with wiring if I dont have to.

I may have that same "drag" on bearings if that description is accurate. I've already started hunting for motors at car-part.com but I did find a couple of donor motors under 500 but its hard for me to tell whats worth rebuilding since I wont know their history. I want to make sure I have at least enough parts between the two and a rebuild kit to get one complete motor.




FWIW, when I removed the BS from the QR25DE and installed the windagre tray (to prevent oil froth/misting), the NVH was strictly at 3000-3200rpm and I'd expect that same behavior with this motor. I guess people expect motors to be so smooth these days, they want to make it as quiet as possible. Its similar to installing a lightweight pully or flywheel in performance comparison. What I dont like about balance shafts (regarding the QR motors) was that the assembly rotates 2X the crank speed....soooo up to about 14k rpm. I think thats a real potential for bearing seizure. I'm pretty sure I'll remove the BS unit from whatever I glue together.

udelslayer

Also, I found this video detailing the tapping procedure with the tool.

Y2KG20

I don't see why you couldn't run the better 08'-10' cams with a 06' ecu. It will be tuned to a less aggressive cam and may need some fueling changes. Could up the fuel pressure and let the ecu deal with it or add a FIC6 and manually tune it. We do this on our G20 SR20 turbo cars. Up the fuel pressure 33% and add 00'-01' green cams (hottest RR cam for stock) and run E85 fuel. All done with fuel pressure and FIC6 tuning.

That video is the exact tools we used for the 04' camry shortblock. Took lots of time x2 people working.

Finding a good donor motor is hard. Really hard if you are going cheap. We sat in the junkyard most of a day for the 04' camry engine. We scoped all 2AZ-FE cars in the lot first, then took a 12v li-ion battery pack to hook up to the fuse box to check mileage on all of them. Then picked the lowest mile car and started checking the engine for wear. Was totally worth the time going through them.

udelslayer

Considering all the problems I'm seeing with the 2az-fe in the earlier years, I'm looking through car-part.com for a '08 or maybe a '10 motor to swap in. It just seems that if I can find a reasonable mileage for even as much as 1800, that might be less hassle than trying to rebuild the entire motor. With this motor being so universal in their vehicles, there seems to be a lack of support for it recently and thats kind of a shame. I wish they had kept the trd s/c package or fixed the issue. I'd like to boost it legally and avoid the yearly inspection headaches. I'm in NC.

Y2KG20

If you got the $$$ it is a lot easier than rebuilding one. It's a lot of work and time. One thing I will warn you about on a low mileage pull is that you really should pull the head and clean the pistons and replace the rings. If it has sat very long most likely the relief holes will be clogged and it will eat oil anyway. I have had this happen on a 68k mile SR engine that sat for 2 years and I installed it and wished I took the time to do a quick ring change and cleanup because it eats 1qt every 2000mi. It's still a 50/50 deal on any used engine high or low mileage. A head gasket and ring job is under $100 and worth the insurance because doing it in a car sucks a big one.

Y2KG20

More about Macy... She still has a slight diesel engine sound at idle and I'm thinking the VVT-I cam gear retaining pin is probably worn out. If the RPM goes 800rpm and higher it is totally smooth and quiet.. I might record the sound and replace with a new one to see if she quiets down.

udelslayer

Whats your oil pressure like? Does it do that cold and warm? How do you even wear out a retaining pin on that? Inquiring minds want to know.......

udelslayer

If I could find a couple motors for _really_ cheap, I'd like to rebuild one just to put that under my belt. I haven't had to fix a motor internally since my (dont puke) buick century days. I've got the time and tools and wouldn't mind adding more gear to my collection. I have a feeling the price between rebuild and fairly newish salvage might be very close though. If I run into other issues or my rebuild is crap, then it could get expensive in time and money quickly.

I'm surprised I dont see an article about somebody putting a sr20det in this car already. Seems like thats the 350v8 of the JDM.....or a B13.....or maybe the 350 is the 350 of the JDM too.

Y2KG20

I haven't put a PSI gauge on the car but I really doubt I have a delivery problem. It's just VVT knock like all the Fords with cam phaser problems. Either the VVT-I (cam phaser) isn't sealing anymore or the lock pin is wore out. I have seen quite a few Toyotas that have the same issue and not just 2AZ engines. I'll take one apart and get some pics up.

About the swap in these cars.. I think the 2AZ-FE is a pretty well built motor give it has a few issues that need attention. If I get one for myself I wouldn't be scared to run 10-14psi on it with stock internals. I have seen a few going 3.3l V6 engines but why take up the whole engine bay? SR20 would be awesome but the wiring and standalone would get expensive. Could also just go to the new gen 2AR-FE and 6 speed, that would be my second choice.

bbsciontc

Problem with these engines is that the old ones were prone to head bolt issues, and the newer engines (07 and up) were prone to oil consumption issues (which seem to be happening quite a lot now). It's kinda a gamble either way you go. I think that's why rebuilding sounds so appealing as you can directly address both issues.

udelslayer

Whats your take on the lightweight flywheel? I'm going to do a clutch job in this car and considering LWFW, but the prolite just seems a bit too extreme at 10lbs. I was hoping to find a 14lb unit, but are the exedy kits worth using with it? I you also have a quaife, but I dont know if I'll ever do that for this car.

Well, I've locally found a 2010 2azfe with 71k on the clock and from a wreck sold at an insurance auction. It looks to be in ok shape. considering the issues with 06 models and the head bolts and getting into a discussion this week with a coworker that said his son's 06 car ran out of oil and locked up, I'm just going to assume the 06 is a bad ball of wax. 1800 isnt cheap, but thats still keeping my budget under 3k for a car I'll own and a motor swap is going to be a lot easier than a rebuild.

Oil consumption might not be too bad....you want to see consumption, I've own an isuzu rodeo and a s2000. Oil just magically disappears in those motors.

I guess that was directed at bbsciontc

bbsciontc

Regarding the flywheel, to be honest I barely feel a difference. Probably would have been just fine with the stock one. I didn't want to go with the ultralight since it is my daily driver. The quaife is great, but it's a lot of labor with the trans, and not cheap either. I got lucky and snatched one from a shop that was liquidating them on ebay for ~$500. I still had to find a junkyard trans to swap it into however. I wanted the taller camry gears which helps a ton for forced induction.

Y2KG20

I'm not sure how bad those two vehicles eat oil but the 07+ 2AZ-FE have been known to use more oil than they carry within the standard oil change interval. That's a recipe for engine failure with most people. That's how I picked ours up so cheap. I almost picked up another a couple weeks ago with the same problem. They should put a low oil light at 2 qts so people could at least get to a gas station before they run out

More about Macy.
Just switched to Mobile 1 full synthetic. She hit 1100 miles on the cheap dino oil for break in and everything is good. I also changed out the VVT-I sprocket with a new one. It is quieter now but still has a little chain noise. I wish I would have changed the whole timing set and guides now... I took apart the VVT-I sprocket and found it had crap and build up in it and the locking pin spring was very weak. Probably could have cleaned it and put a new spring in it but I really didn't think it was worth wasting the time on it.

samatman

I was just discussing this with someone - I mean we have oil pressure sensors, why not an optical oil level system instead of the antique "stick in a tube"? Alternatively, how about a Jules Verne / steam punk solution with a glass capillary tube running to the dash so we can visually see the level while driving?

Y2KG20

Something would be nice. Just the "oh by the way your out of oil" light could have been updated in the last 30+ years you would think. Just a conductivity sensor at the 2qt line so a low oil light could be triggered would have saved so many engines.

bbsciontc

My guess is that the challenge with oil level will be the consistency when the engine is running. Once the pump is going, a lot of the oil in the sump will be circulating, dripping back down, and just moving around a whole lot. At the very least though, it seems it would be simple enough for the car to report the oil level after it's been sitting for 30 minutes or so. If you had a readout of oil level just prior to start up, that would be more than enough to catch it before you run into trouble.

Y2KG20

Ran the rebuilt motor on cheap oil for about 1200 miles and changed over to Mobile 1 full synthetic. Have about 2500 miles on the synthetic and used about 1 quart. It's probably still breaking in and will keep checking it every 2-3000 miles. Also installed a Avital remote start last weekend. Still need to get the lock/unlock crap wired in but at least we can start and warm it up from the house now I might make a write up in the tech section when I get all of the wiring figured out for a cheap DIY remote start setup.

udelslayer

What M1 weight are you running?