The COMPREHENSIVE Thread on NST Scion tC II Pulleys - Scionlife.com


Scion tC 2G Drivetrain & Power Engine and transmission discussions...

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Old 02-04-2012, 06:00 PM   #1
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Default The COMPREHENSIVE Thread on NST Scion tC II Pulleys




It looks like we have threads popping up constantly with questions regarding pulleys.

So I decided to take some time and put up a good thread (FOR NST SCION tC II PULLEY DISCUSSION) in which we can cover most of the topics that normally come up, FAQs, along with user reviews and data. This last bit (user reviews and data) I feel are most important... so pulley owners, PLEASE take a few minutes out of your very busy days and post your experiences with us in this thread. I am very confident that your fellow board members will find your reviews very helpful.

First, I will post some general info regarding NST Pulleys, how they work, and why they help to free up power and torque.

Second, I will list some FAQs that have come up in past threads with info and answers.

Third, it is your job pulley owners, to post your first hand experiences, comments, and data with us.

FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO SKIP THE DISCUSSION AND BUY FROM OUR WEBSITE:
http://www.shopnonstoptuning.com/sto...NST07158_.html


MIKE @ NST

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Old 02-04-2012, 06:00 PM   #2
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Crank pulleys, attached to the outside of the crankshaft, are the source of power for a car's accessories. The alternator, power steering, water pump, and air conditioner are all belt driven units, attached to the crank pulley, that use horsepower from an engine to provide their own services. This draw of power by these accessories is called parasitic loss. NST Underdrive Crank Pulleys increase an engine's horsepower by reducing the power required to drive these external accessories. By replacing factory pulleys with CAREFULLY RESIZED / LIGHTENED units, some of the accessories are slowed enough so that their performance DOES NOT suffer, but just enough so that more horsepower is sent to the wheels and put to the ground. Where horsepower should be!

The R&D team at NST is dedicated to developing kits that provide great gains for track days and continue to deliver proper accessory output for everyday street use.

NST equipped cars do better on the track, benefit from increased accessory life on the street, and also deliver better mile-per-gallon fuel efficiency.


NST was the first company to design and develop pulleys for the Scion tC, and now offers more for the tC than all of our competition combined. We offer the most comprehensive line of pulleys for these cars, and we also have the ability to build custom pulleys for any custom application. NST offers more than 100 different pulleys for Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Lotus, Volkwagen, etc on www. NonStopTuning .com. When you buy from NST, you are buying from the leader in sport compact pulley development.


MIKE @ NST
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Old 02-04-2012, 06:02 PM   #3
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1. Will I need to buy a new belt if I am using NST Pulleys?

A. The NST CR-Lite Crank Pulley for the 2011+ tC II, NST07158, is specifically designed for use with the OEM belt. You can use your OEM belt as long as you have a good, healthy, belt. Please remember that all belts are normal wear and tear items and should be replaced at roughly 50,000 miles.

2. Will/should NST Pulleys lead to any squeaking or noise from the belt?
A. A properly installed kit, along with the porper belt size, and a healthy belt, should NOT lead to any noise. Belts should be inspected from time to time and replaced at proper intervals. Belts should not be sprayed or cleaned with any chemicals. Dust or debry can be cleaned with a brush or a can of air.

3. Do NST Pulleys actually add HP/TQ?
A. NST Pulleys do not technically add power, they free up the power that the engine makes by way of great weight reduction and the slight underdriving of the accessories. The great weight reduction leads to improved HP and TQ curves in the low, mid, and high range... this is something very few bolt on modifications can do. These pulleys also improve throttle response and fuel economy, both of which can not be measured on a dyno but can definitely be seen on the road, or track.

4. Are there any independent dyno charts available to prove these claims?
A. Yes, there are several sources of independent dyno charts for NST Pulleys. Viewers should be careful to look for AREA UNDER THE CURVE when looking at these dyno charts. You can see improvements in low, mid, and high range HP and TQ. This is something most other bolt on modifications can not do...

PLEASE CLICK HERE FOR PICTURES, DYNO CHARTS, AND A VIDEO:
http://nonstoptuning.wordpress.com/2...2011-scion-tc/


5. Can NST Pulleys cause my engine to run lean?
A. The above pulleys can not, in any way, change the air/fuel ratio of a naturally aspirated or turbocharged engine... as pulleys have nothing to do with the flow of air, exhaust, or fuel. ECU reflashes, intakes, exhausts, or header systems are what normally affect air/fuel ratios.

6. Can I use the CR-LITE Crank Pulley on a supercharged or turbocharged tC?
A. The NST Crank Pulley can be used on any naturally aspirated, supercharged, or turbocharged tC.

7. What colors do you offer?
A. All NST Pulleys are HARD ANODIZED. This is the most durable method of anodizing in the industry, and very few brands are actually hard anodized. This process adds a hard layer to the outside of the aluminum and helps to make the pulley as durable as possible. Our main color is red, and we can offer custom colors on a special order basis.

8. How hard is installation? Can you provide tips or a DIY guide?
A. Installation should not be too difficult if you have previous experience with wrenching on your car. Chances are if you did your own intake, header, or exhaust, that you should be able to tackle this in a couple hours with the proper tools.

Ofcourse if you are the least bit hesitant, or uncomfortable with trying this yourself, you should seek the assistance of a trained professional. NST can not be held responsible in any way, shape, or form for any damage due to improper installation. DIY installations are performed entirely at the risk of you, the end user.



MIKE @ NST

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Old 02-04-2012, 06:03 PM   #4
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This one deserves an entire book, but here goes...

Q. Will NST Pulleys lead to premature engine failure?

I cover this topic at least several times a month but I don't mind, I understand that your cars are a very large investment for all of you and I prefer that you be intelligent and informed about all your modifications. So here we go again... Please take a few minutes to read everything I have posted here, as I worked hard on trying to give you a good explanation on the topic...

In the past many engines were externally balanced. There was an external balancer attached to the outside of the engine, on the crank snout, used to balance the engine externally. The crank pulley in such engines would then be attached to this balancer. Removal of this balancer is a bad idea. These balancers were most often used on large (6 to V shaped engines of the domestic muscle car era.

Take a look at any modern (1980s and beyond) Honda, Toyota, Nissan, or other japanese inline 4 and you will find no such balancer. These engines are all internally balanced, and this process has improved even further since the late 1990s. So the topic of a BALANCER does not apply here.

What you will find on many modern engines is a harmonic damper. This is a small rubber band, litterally less than 2mm, less than 1/8th of an inch, thick that is built into the crank pulley. OEM crank pulleys are often called DAMPERS. Try placing an order for a crank pulley at your dealer and your invoice will read damper. This rubber is used to absorb something called NVH, noise/vibration/harshness. Suffice it to say, this rubber is actually not very good at performing its intended purpose after as little as a few thousand miles. What happens to rubber after a couple years of humidity, weather, snow, rain, etc? It often becomes brittle, hard, and crunchy. Can something with these properties actually absorb vibrations very well?

Many many NST customers, including people on your own forums, have reported smoother running engines with NST pulleys. Especially at idle. How is this possible if the rubber is such a vital and super important piece??? Perhaps the rubber is not as important as it is cracked up to be???


Furthermore....


On the topic of the rubber damper, engine vibrations, or possible threats resulting from elimination of this rubber piece...

On a relatively understressed near stock motor with bolt ons or low amounts of boost like what most of the people on this forum probably run, a solid pulley will not have any life threatening consiquences. The factory pulley with a 2mm (less than a 1/8th inch) damper is primarily there for wide band NVH (noise vibration harshness) supression from the engine and driveline. Removing the damper and replacing it with a solid pulley may lead to minor addtional NVH but will not harm the engine. In fact, most people claim their engines seem to run smoother with NST pulleys.

The engineering reasons are that most modern engines have a short, strong crank with, a relatively high natural frequency. The dangerous second harmonic that can cause damage occurs at an rpm that this sort of engine will never see, in the area above 10,000 rpm. Even the stock damper is not tuned for attinuation at this sort of rpm so the argument is somewhat of a moot point.

Now weak engines that are pushing the limit with LOTS of revs, wimpy cranks, super long strokes, lots of boost and dwelling in the upper rpm ranges for long periods of time can benefit from a damper designed to deal with this sort of operation but our engine is not like this, and probably very few people with this motor on this forum push the envelope that hard. How many 2.0 Liter, 500HP, 12,000RPM motors do we have on these forums?

As far as I can tell, our engine has a strong and stiff bottom end that is well built for our intended use. It has an internaly balanced crankshaft which is less like to break due to torsional vibration.

There are a lot of Honda, Toyota, and Nissan guys who use underdrive crank pulleys in road racing series like NASA or SCCA. Road racing is much more punishing on an engine than other motorsports. The engine is subjected to run times lasting roughly 30 minutes with the engine always in the upper ranges of its rpm limit. One race weekend is the equivlent of hundreds of 1/4 mile passes. These guys would not use NST pulleys if they were not reliable.

NST sponsors the first ever wheel to wheel Scion tC NASA Road Race car. The same car is also very competitive in the Grand Am series and has factory backing from Toyota, Scion, and TRD. This car has been using pulleys from NST with great results since day one.

NST has sponsored several drift cars participating in the professional US drift series, Fromula Drift. Several of our cars have also competed in the Xtreme Drift Circuit and NOPI Drift series. To make things better, NST products are also used in autocross, time attack, and drag cars. These cars have been using NST pulleys with no issues of any kind for the past few seasons.

We could go on and on...

Is a solid crank pulley harmless to all engines? No it is not. As I said... small, super high reving engines, when modified way past the simple bolt on stages may have problems. These engines reach critcal harmonics, past the 10,000 rpm range, an rpm only reached by certain RACE engines.

A mildly modded inline six will most likely be fine but one subjected to high rpm for long periods of time (90% of its life) with lots of boost will probably suffer. In this case , the stock balancer/damper is probably not adequate either.

Some of the older american V8 engines are externaly balanced and it is critical not to use a solid hub pulley not designed for these applications, or damage to the engine could result. You will not find solid NST pulleys on our website for such engines.

Our engines and most around here do not fall into the above catagories. Rest assured that your engines will not blow up and die or have a reduced life in street and even racing use with these parts.

I would bet that every "expert" that tells you otherwise has little personal, practical, real world experience with the subject; as it applies in your case.

Again, I understand that your cars are a very large investment and that you depend on them as your daily means of transportation, so I do not take your questions personally. But please remember... No NST product is designed to cause you any harm or grief. Not all pulleys are created equal, and no other pulley is an NST pulley.


MIKE @ NST

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Old 02-04-2012, 06:51 PM   #5
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NST PULLEY OWNERS, PLEASE POST YOUR PICS, REVIEWS, AND COMMENTS WITH US IN THIS THREAD!!!

For those who are looking to order from our website:
http://www.nonstoptuning.rpmware.com...i-1829775.aspx


Thanks again, good luck and have fun with all your projects everyone!


MIKE @ NST

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Old 02-04-2012, 06:52 PM   #6
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Well, I just finished installing the NST CR-lite Crank pulley. I would say the install was about a 3 on a scale of 1 to 10 (easiest to hardest). With that being said, you should use the proper tools (impact gun to remove and re-install the crank bolt, and gear puller to remove the pulley) to facilitate the job.

Initial impression: The NST pulley is significantly lighter tha the factory steel pulley. I was pleased with the overall quality of the NST pulley and the Skittles. As soon as I finished the install, I took the car for a test drive. I was very pleased with the noticeable increase in performance, and had a big smile on my face when I came back in the house. I took my wife for a ride, and she could tell the difference as well (which is good because it was a Cristmas gift for her).

If anyone has questions about the install or needs help, please feel free to pm me or post it up.






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Old 02-04-2012, 07:02 PM   #7
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And the first installed pic award goes to Zeus_tC! Thank you for posting sir. Glad your install went well and that you AND your wife are happy with the purchase. The only question that remains... did you share the skittles with her as well?!

And as he stated, if anyone has any questions or comments, please post here.

Thanks again, best of luck with all your future projects!


MIKE @ NST
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Old 02-04-2012, 07:04 PM   #8
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I will be writing up my review in a few hours after I get a chance to take the car for a spin. This pulley is of the same high quality that NST normally produces. I run the NST pulley on my xD as well, it free'd up a lot of midrange power and it shows when I need to accelerate on the highways. So fired up to drive my tC with this installed!
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Old 02-04-2012, 08:53 PM   #9
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i forgot to put the little wrist band in the picture but oh well! i should be having mine installed in the next few weeks although i doubt i will be able to wait that long.ill post my review as soon as soon as i get done test driving it.can not wait.
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Old 02-04-2012, 09:54 PM   #10
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I got this pulley at scion expo an im glad i did felt the difference right away sry no pic i dont have one right now
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Old 02-05-2012, 02:11 AM   #11
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BAM!





no offense but I wish NST was this talkative and responsive while the production process

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Old 02-05-2012, 01:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NonStopTuning View Post
And the first installed pic award goes to Zeus_tC! Thank you for posting sir. Glad your install went well and that you AND your wife are happy with the purchase. The only question that remains... did you share the skittles with her as well?!

And as he stated, if anyone has any questions or comments, please post here.

Thanks again, best of luck with all your future projects!


MIKE @ NST

Is this still available? How much if I was able to.buy 3?
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Old 02-05-2012, 01:50 PM   #13
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Why do you want 3??
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Old 02-05-2012, 01:52 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biglilsteve View Post
Why do you want 3??
Couple guys in my local scikotics chapter would be interested fa sho!
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Old 02-05-2012, 01:53 PM   #15
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True!
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:35 PM   #16
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I have a question.

I read all of the posted material (except the section on premature engine failure) as well as a few articles on the NST website and am somewhat confused. From my understanding, it seems like the crank pulleys fall under three categories: underdrive, overdrive, and NST- "Lite." If I am not mistaken, this particular product falls under the "Lite" categorization, correct? Which pulley type is the best for overall horsepower gain? And does anyone know if NST plans on developing future pulleys for the TC2 (underdirve, overdrive)? Also, what do the aftermarket belts do vs the OEM ones?
Any clarification is appreciated, thanks
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Old 02-06-2012, 01:51 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PEwilly9 View Post
Is this still available? How much if I was able to.buy 3?
Yes, we have a few in stock. Available for purchase on our website:
http://www.nonstoptuning.rpmware.com...i-1829775.aspx


Unfortunately, we can not discount these pulleys at this time... nor do we have very many left in this batch. We can offer custom colors if you're willing to wait a week or two. Please contact us by phone Monday through Friday if you'd like to discuss further.

Thanks again!

MIKE @ NST

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Old 02-06-2012, 02:04 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hope29 View Post
I have a question.

I read all of the posted material (except the section on premature engine failure) as well as a few articles on the NST website and am somewhat confused. From my understanding, it seems like the crank pulleys fall under three categories: underdrive, overdrive, and NST- "Lite." If I am not mistaken, this particular product falls under the "Lite" categorization, correct? Which pulley type is the best for overall horsepower gain? And does anyone know if NST plans on developing future pulleys for the TC2 (underdirve, overdrive)? Also, what do the aftermarket belts do vs the OEM ones?
Any clarification is appreciated, thanks
Good questions.

In some cases, NST Underdrive Crank Pulleys are very beneficial for naturally aspirated and turbocharged engines. In fact, we offer one for the first generation Scion tC. We also offer a CR-Lite for the first gen tC.

In the case of the second generation tC II, we offer a CR-Lite Crank Pulley... OEM diameter, same size as OEM. The design of the tC II pulley does not really allow us to make a smaller (underdrive) version. Our CR-Lite Crank Pulley has shown some very good gains on the dyno and in the real world. In fact, we have never seen any other four cylinder engine respond this well to a crank pulley. Very good news for tC II owners.

If you have not done so already, you can read about our dyno testing and watch the video at the following page on our blog: http://nonstoptuning.wordpress.com/2...2011-scion-tc/

And regarding belts... You can use your OEM belt with the CR-Lite that we offer for the tC II. You just need to make sure that your belt is in good shape. These belts need to be changed at the 40K to 50K mile mark.

Feel free to contact us by phone if you'd like to discuss further.


MIKE @ NST
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:12 PM   #19
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Quick question...i think that our first gear is relatively short...for those who have it installed, have you noticed different mph of gear changer close to redline? Or that yer getting through the gears quicker. Mine is getting installed on Wednesday...just curious.

Thanks
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:24 PM   #20
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i dont own an impact gun or a gear puller, is it still going to be a problem for me to do the install?
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