Vanity

So I'm sure we've all gotten to the point where we've done exhaust, (short ram, kind of regretting it.. but we have flash floods) intake, pulley, headers, and we're like what now?

I'm about to get the dezod header and I'm not sure where to go from here as far as naturally aspirating my scion.

I'm looking for educated, experienced responses. I'm thinking about some sort standalone, but I'm not sure how much this would help. I don't know enough to just buy ____ and go, so that's why I'm asking before I waste money going in the wrong direction.

Any replies about turbo will be neglected, as this will not be turned into another turbo v. na debate.

Kyleptrsn1

A stand alone ECU. That will allow the best tuning for all of your mods to get the most power. That way you can retard as well as advance timing to take the most advantage of the extra amount of flow you're putting through your engine with the exhaust and intake. I do recommend putting a full cat back exhaust system on your car. You'll get rid of the 2nd catalytic convertor and that will allow a little more flow through the exhaust system.

As for which ECU to get, I recommend a full stand alone. Not a piggy-back. It shouldn't really matter which one, as they all should be able to handle a 4 cylinder engine. By "no piggy-back", I mean don't get the AEM FIC: it cannot advance your timing, only retard it..

Vanity

I'm running the meganracing full catback with a 2.5 inch diameter. I figured that would be best for n/a. Any suggestions on what standalone ECUs are available for the second generation tc? I don't know of many brands for these, nor do I have experience with them. This is my first car to ever modify.

Kyleptrsn1

Right now your only option is the AEM EMS-4. Dezod is coming out with another one this summer that I think will be based on the new AEM Infinity EMS. But the EMS-4 is more than enough to handle what you're going to be throwing at it. I don't have any experience with either. I'm torn between getting the EMS-4 now or waiting to see what Dezod comes out with. Mind you my car is turboed, so I need as much control as I can get.

Vanity

Can someone with no experience configure a standalone?

Kyleptrsn1

Short answer: No.

Long answer: A stand alone ECU with out a base map has nothing to tell the engine. It is essentially a few tables for ignition, fuel, o2, and maf voltage that all read 0 across the board. Thinking about the fuel table: The standalone ECU will tell the engine to put in absolutely no fuel no matter what the engine rpm is. Obviously this is not a good place as you need fuel for the combustion inside the engine therefore the engine would never start and if you got it started would immediately stall. So you need to know how much fuel the engine needs to be able to start the engine and then keep the engine going at idle. After that you need to know how much fuel the engine needs at each portion of the rpm range to be able to keep making power. This was just the fuel table. As I said, there are at least 3 other tables you will need to take advantage of to get/keep your car running smoothly.

People learn how to do this with years of practice. That's why it is important to go to a reputable tuner.

torqueTc

iTrader: (11)

What are your *realistic* goals? I would say if you stayed N/A - and shot for 210hp to the wheels - that would be a very fast NA car as far as scions go. Your car most likely dyno's around 165hp or so to the wheels - if you can cram another 45hp in it, that would make the car pretty quick compared to stock. I/H/E with no tune, might get you 12-15hp. Add a quality tune, get a WAY better street DD car, and you should be able to find another 10hp out of just that. So your half way there for 45hp gain. That next "20hp" is going to be hard/expensive to get, but will make a lot of difference in the car.

OP - why are you against running a piggy back? Its the best bang for the buck on your car. Take it to a great tuner, extract the full potential of your NA mods and be done with it. Your ____ing money away with a standalone. Do you guys realize that the "SA" systems are for cars that NEED it, right? There is no reason that the FIC cant handle your needs to full capacity. Guys that are running standalones, are quarter mile kings, and time attack/auto X peeps. If your car is driven on the street, you will NEVER need a standalone if your not pushing some serious PSI (turbo) numbers. Seriously, do not waste your money on a SA system. Its not like your running boost by gear, or anything controlling individual injectors... A "200" hp car does not need a freaking SA system.

Let me make a comparo for you - Its like using a hammer as a fly swatter. Will it do the job? of course it will, thats what it does. HOWEVER, your going WAAAAY overkill for something that will a) never use the potential a SA system offers, and b) is about 3 times more expensive than a piggy back.

What you REALLY should be looking at is a limited slip diff, if you plan on putting power to the ground and not spinning one wheel - You sound like your on a good path, dont go with the overkill of a SA system. Hell, even the 99% of the turbo guys are running piggybacks. You would seriously be wasting about $2000, then find someone who tunes full systems since they have many more variables than PB's, and are more labor intensive to wire up, then say a PnP FIC.

- Mild/mild-aggressive cams drop in cams. That should bump you up about 10-15hp or so *properly tuned of course* If your going to pop the head off, replace the IM gasket with a performance one. Helps keep the temps down by 3-5%.

- AEM FIC - its the most used system by all the scion tuners - you'll be able to find someone who can tune the max out of this system. If you were building a 350hp+ tC2, I would say the standalone might make sense. Do you have e85 fuel readily available where you are? If not, your going to be tuning for premium fuel.

- Intake manifold - if your going for a all out, all motor build - this will net you a "few" ponies. i'd do this absolutely last though. On a N/A setup, you wont see the big gains like you might on a turbo setup.

- weight reduction - VERY important - light weight rims. Dont go with 19's or anything stupid. Stick with either 18's, or light weight 17's, you'll notice a difference immediately without doing anything else. Also, going with a lightweight battery, flywheel, and hood - can easily shave 60+lbs off the car.

- possibly switch the SRI out for a cold air, but I dont think you'd really gain anything, you would mainly move your power band around for higher RPMs. I have run all sorts of intake setups through out the years, and as long as you have a quality manufacturer, your not going to notice a big difference. I'd say keep the SRI if it has a heat shield setup (like my FG2 civic SI mishimoto intake does, its a carbon shroud that keeps the intake sealed away from the rest of the motor)

- Spark plugs - Run the NGK/Denso Iridiums. Not going to get you much of a gain, but every bit helps. If you could get 1 or 2hp from switching from from stock, why not try it out? You may also want to do the "big 3" wire upgrade. It cant hurt.

- Lightweight flywheel - wont give you any more HP, but your car will rev more freely (it will decel quicker too, so dont go "too" light on the flywheel for a street car. Not only that, but its a sure fire way to lose 10-12lbs. DONT change your clutch if its your daily driver. That OEM stock clutch is good for more HP than a N/A car makes. If TRD makes one like they did for the original tC, that would be a decent upgrade that wont suck to drive on.

So quick re-cap...

AEM FIC + good tune
Cams
Intake Mani + IM gasket
Lightweight flywheel, carbon hood, lightweight battery
Lighter rims 17's (over 18's) w/ good tires (if you cant hook up, it doesnt matter how much power you have!)
Properly dialed in suspension w/ quality components. If you are running racelands, pull them off NOW and burn them in a fire. Lol. Dont cheap out on your suspension.
Limited Slip Diff.
NGK plugs
TB spacer

Lastly, again about the weight savings -
Lightweight rims (4lbs a peice?)
Flywheel (save 10lbs?)
Battery (15lbs?)
Hood (30lbs?)
No spare/jack *MAKE SURE to have AAA for towing!* (35lbs)
Intake (5lbs?, removing stock airbox + extra pipes/hoses)
Full exhaust (10lbs?)
Right there is around 110lbs or so. Give or take 20lbs.

nlaplante

Is there a way to add a post to my favorites? ^^^

torqueTc

iTrader: (11)

Why thank you, good sir!

nlaplante

That post was everything I wanted to know because I too am going N/A with my tC and beside intake, exhaust, header & pulley, I didn't know where to go from there.

Now I'm looking forward to this:

• Enkei RPF-1 lightweight wheels
• Carbon fiber hood & trunk lid
• Front & rear sway bars
• Struts bar
• Motor mount
• Piggyback (AEM or Unichip)

Vanity

This post contains a plethora of valuable information. Thank you.

My realistic goals are around 200-205 to the wheels, so 220 at the crank.

Your planning infers that with I/H/E and a tune, I could be looking at a 20-25 HP gain. Cams and intake manifold would add about 10-15 HP in gains. (Assuming all of this is correct). That's 37 HP. So I have my lightweight pulley in the mix...no idea how much that 'nets' me. It's looking more and more realistic that one can get 220 HP to the crank with careful planning.

Now I have a question, unichip or AEM FIC?

What's the difference?

From my understanding, a unichip can come pre-tuned, whereas an AEM FIC must be tuned by a professional, which makes it a more costly route. The AEM FIC seems like it would be more effective though. Someone help me on this?

I will eventually put 17" RPF1s (for unsprung weight reduction) on my car along with bcracing coilovers, but those are expensive upgrades, to which will be completed after the engine has reached the point above. I don't have the money to immediately do all of these things.

nlaplante

0 gain. It frees up existing power. So to the crank, 0 gain, but to the wheels, some gain, one must measure them.

Vanity

So unichip or AEM FIC?

torqueTc

iTrader: (11)

Depends on what your local tuner wants to use. Look around your area (via google) for local performance shops, and give them a call. Most will sway twards the FIC I would bet.