halosinfire

I'm just finishing up the install of my Dezod turbo kit and getting the tune done Saturday. I've watched quite a few YouTube videos of the same turbo kit, and noticed that some setups have a nice "wooooosh" sounding blow off valve, while others have a flutter sound. I'm not talking about turbo surge, I'm talking about a flutter sound coming from the blowoff valve, which apparently some people prefer. My understanding is that the BOV will flutter if the spring is too stiff and there's not enough pressure to open it fully.

So my question is, what tension spring should I use in the BOV to get that nice woooosh sound given that I'll be running 7 pounds of boost? The TiAL BOV can be opened easily to replace the spring inside. 7 pounds of boost is not a lot, so I suspect that i will be fluttering if the spring is too stiff (does anyone know what spring it normally comes with?)

Also, does anyone know if the TiAL wastegate and TiAL BOV springs are interchangeable? The wastegate came with six springs, so I have five remaining. Assuming one of the remaining is the right tension, could I use it in the blowoff valve?

Any help would be greatly appreciated !

carbinefreak

I've been playing with this a lot since i got my kit. the flutter is actually caused by the turbo not the wasegate, The black spring fixes all of it but it is locked open at idle which i don't like. I've got the white spring in that flutters a little bit but nowhere near as bad as the yellow in the kit. also don't bother with the non-colored one its too stiff as well. The root problem is the ecu hangs the throttle when you let off so the vacuum doesn't form fast enough and it surges. aftermarket ecu would fix it for sure but i just run the white spring. as for the waste gate springs don't bother they are all way too stiff compared to the BOV springs.

halosinfire

Thanks for the reply. Did your blowoff valve come with different springs? Mine only came with the one already in the blowoff valve, no extras in the box. I opened it up today and I can't tell if it's brown or plain colored. I definitely think I have the wrong spring in. When I rev the engine at idle it is opening up, which it shouldn't since it is not building any boost. What is your vacuum at idle? I'm at -20.

carbinefreak

Mine came with the yellow sping which is the -12 psi spring. I purchased the other springs online for 25/each. Mine idles at -11psi, which according to tial should have the yellow spring but due to our ECU we need a softer spring.

halosinfire

What's your vacuum setup like? Do you have everything connected to the little vacuum block that came with the kit, i.e. wastegate, BOV, FIC, boost guage? At the moment, I do, but I'm thinking that could be a/the problem. The longer the hose, the more vacuum you're losing. And I can't remember off the top of my head, but I believe the vacuum hoses that came with the kit are 5/32" and 7/32", which are a bit thin.

2 reasons why:

1) You are right, the BOV is staying open on idle. I'm also having a problem with a rough idle. It's up and down, up and down and I stall out a lot when I come to a stop. I can hear the BOV release pressure, but I also hear the turbo flutter as well. It's like half and half.

2) I have the 5 lb spring in the wastegate. I originally wanted 7lbs, but when I did the tune the 7 pound spring was getting 10 pounds of boost before the dyno cut it off. I put the 5lb spring in and I was still getting 8 lbs, which I could live with. Tonight I redlined it, and with no dyno to shut it off, I hit 15 lbs of boost. I know they say there is a +/- 2 lb variance with the TiAL springs, but 10 pounds is a bit excessive and could be disasterous. But I'm thinking that's a vacuum problem.

I just ordered some 3/8" and 5/16" vacuum hose, 2 tee fittings, and some clamps. I'm going to cut into the hose going to the vacuum block, attach the tee fittings, and run one hose directly to the BOV and the other directly the the wastegate. The shorter hose should equal less vacuum loss, and having a bit wider hose might help too.

carbinefreak

I have my waste gate run off a tapped hole in the hot side of the inter cooler, but before i had it off the vacuum manifold with my waste gate and boost gauge. If you making 15 PSI something is wrong with your wastegate it may be sticking or you have a leak somewhere, also the rough idle is normal but you shouldn't be stalling. that's due to a bad tune or bad plugs/dirty MAF. I purchased all new 1/4" lines for the Tial valves but it didnt make much of a difference.

halosinfire

The plugs are brand new, one step colder and I have the gaps set to .25. I just ordered a different spring for the BOV. I'll see what happens when I put that in. Hopefully the rough idle is NOT normal. Have you seen this post by Paul:

https://www.scionlife.com/forums/sci...a-paul-225082/

He says it should idle as good, or better, than stock.

MagneticTC

The FIC sucks it will never run right now matter how hard u try I've used it for 3 months before getting the aem series 2 The FIC will run lean when ever it wants running lean is very bad for your engine it will melt your pistons just a warning I was turbo for 1 year before my engine gave out.

halosinfire

Well that sucks, I was hoping to keep my engine for more than a year. Under what conditions do you start to run lean? On boost?

When my idle is not acting up, I range between 14.3-15.1 give or take, usually towards the middle of that. Normal driving it's the same, in the 14's. On boost it drops down to 10.1 - 11.5, and when I come off the accelerator in gear it jumps up to 17 which is the upper limit of my A/F guage's range. As far as I understand, these are pretty normal numbers.

MagneticTC

Yes that's about right 10.1 is a little to rich but if it works for u great but for me some times it would run perfect the next day I full throttle it i would see 14-15 afr and was getting detonation but if yours works great with the FIC then u should be fine for a while

I'm putting the turbo setup back on the other engine I just put in but I also plan on building my original engine

Also do u have a catch can setup because that's another cause why my engine failed I had to much crankcase pressure

halosinfire

I think I'm only hitting the low 10s when I'm overboosting - that's when I'm getting 8-15 lbs of boost on a 5 lb spring. So first thing is to figure out why that's happening. My best guess right now is that there's vacuum, because I'm not boosting infinitely until my pistons melt, but not quite enough. So I'm waiting for the host, tee fittings, and clamps to arrive so I can redo the vacuum setup for the wastegate and BOV.

Also on order is the proper spring for my BOV according to TiAL's chart. I cannot tell what color spring is in their now, it's either plain or brown colored.

I am running a PCV system with a Mighty Mouse catch can. So you didn't have one, and that's another reason why you think your engine went?

MagneticTC

Yeah I didn't have one just had a filter but I'm putting one on this time around

Yeah I realized after it was to late than I needed one I was getting excessive blow by

I remember I was getting good overbooked after I got a bigger exhaust I had to lower the spring boost to 6 lbs and now I boost 9 lbs but my kit came with all the springs maybe your using the wrong spring that's why your overboosting

halosinfire

My wastegate did come with 6 springs. Originally I put the 7 lb spring in, but on the dyno we were getting 10 pounds of boost. They say there is a +/-2 lb variance with the TiAL springs on this kit. I don't know why that would be. 7lbs should be 7lbs, it shouldn't be a guessing game. So I ended up putting the smallest spring in, the 5 pounder. With that I was still hitting 8 pounds, and now I have to assume that it would have gone higher, but the dyno was shutting it down at 6100 RPM. The other day when I gave it a really good rip, with no dyno to shut it down, it went WAY too high.

My hoses and tee fitting arrived today, waiting for the clamps so I can redo the vacuum lines. I think both the wastegate and BOV are not getting enough vacuum. Also waiting on the new spring for the BOV, hopefully it's the right one. I got the yellow one, which according to the TiAL chart is right because I idle at -20", but in an earlier post you said, "but due to our ECU we need a softer spring." As I mentioned, I can't tell which color spring I have now, it's either plain or brown, which means it's either the 12psi spring or the 10 psi spring according to the chart.

I also just stumpled upon this thread which is another problem I'm having:

https://www.scionlife.com/forums/sci...em-fic-218475/

Do you have any idea what Paul and the OP mean when they say "clamp the MAF"?

It's really frustrating to invest so much money into this and not even be able to enjoy it because there are so many kinks to work out, assuming it's even possible to work them out.

Edit: I just noticed you said your yellow spring was the 12psi spring. Do you have the BV 50MM blowoff valve? I have the Q, and for that the yellow spring should be the 11psi spring.

halosinfire

And I just noticed on that same BOV spring chart it says "TiAL BOV's need a 1/4" inner diameter DIRECT source to the manifold. Smaller lines and T's can cause delays in response time."

The kit came with 7/32" line for the BOV and wastegate. And though the vacuum manifold might make for a cleaner install, it's also adding to the length of the hose getting to the BOV and wastegate, which causes a loss in vacuum.

You said you tried something similar. But you didn't run it off the break booster, you ran it off a tapped hole in the hot side of the intercooler?

MagneticTC

I ran it with whatever the kit came with it didn't have any overboosting problems

What size exhaust u running because when I upgraded my exhaust that's when I ran into overboosting issue

Also did u install the kit or a shop because if it's a shop u should take it back there suppose to figure this out for u

What area u live in maybe I can help u find a better shop or maybe check mine out to see how it's run

halosinfire

It was not installed at a shop. A friend of mine who is a mechanic and who does these kind of installs on the side did most of the work, with me helping to do some. Another friend of mine who owned a tune shop for 15 years did the tune. He and I are trying to figure it out, but so far no luck. I'm having a number of problems: I have a rough idle, which when coming to a stop dips low enough that I stall almost every time, A slow start up, but that might be because I relocated the battery to the trunk, I'm over boosting, and it's pig rich too, I'm hitting 10 on my wideband which is the lower limit, so it could actually be lower. I bought the Dezod 3 inch exhaust goes along with their turbo kit. I'm even having a problem with that, the damn downpipe is so close to the frame it rattles almost constantly. I have a CEL because there's not cat, so that's to be expected, but I just ordered the weapon R CEL eliminater today, so hopefully that will shut it off. I'm having so many problems I'm starting to regret doing this. I live in Connecticut. Any help you can offer is greatly appreciated.

I replaced the spring in the blowoff valve today. I have the yellow 11 psi spring in now. That should be right according to the chart. That didn't help with anything. I still hear surge. It's still staying open even when I rev it in idle. I'm not making boost, I don't understand why it's even opening at all.

carbinefreak

Don't Confuse the BOV with the WASTEGATE springs. I'm running a 9lb WASTEGATE springs with the boost source of a tapped hole in the inter-cooler from the tial documentation and i'm maxing out around ~8psi. my BOV spring is the white one and that is referenced off of the manifold that's attached to the brake booster. Over boost is caused by the waste gate failing to open up enough to let enough exhaust out to reduce the boost. triple check that you have the barb on the correct part of the waste gate and that it moves with your hand on the softer springs. As for the clamping of the MAF if you look at the MAF table in the FIC you should have it set to voltage mode and the top right should have values in to trick the MAF into thinking there is a fixed amount of air going through once your under boost. It takes some time to tweak the 02 and fuel tables but once you do it runs pretty well. I haven't had any issues or CEL's in almost a year since i've worked the kinks out it runs great.

halosinfire

No confusion with the springs. I have the smallest spring in the wastegate, which from my memory was green, the 5lb spring. I'm running 20" of vacuum so according to the TiAL chart I should have the yellow 11lb BOV spring. I'm overboosting, so as you said the wastegate is not opening properly. Though it must be opening partially because I'm not boosting infinitely until my pistons melt. The BOV is not working right either, it stays open on idle, and doesn't open properly when it should, I can hear the turbo fluttering. Idle is up and down and I'm stalling nearly every time I come to a stop unless I stay on the gas, which is tough to do when I'm trying to brake to not hit the car in front of me.

I'm about to send you a PM.