Engine rattle at startup - Toyota REFUSES to fix
 

UPDATE 11/8/11. See post #13 below.
UPDATE 12/11/11. See post #21 below.

I made a combined thread related to startup issues I was experiencing some months ago but I'm making this thread to focus solely on this one particular issue. Hopefully it can remain here in the main forum for maximum exposure.

Toyota's new engine families seem to all suffer from the same issue: knocking or rattling at cold startups due to a faulty VVTi mechanism. There are TSBs out for almost all new I4 and V6 Toyotas related to this issue. However, the new tC is conspicuously absent from the TSBs even though my own tC seems to suffer from this issue. I've been to two separate dealers, with the first dealer telling me that it was "normal," and the second dealership telling me the same thing in so many words.

This is the latest revision of the TSB that applies to the 2AR-FE, the engine used in the tC, Camry, and other vehicles: http://www.rav4world.com/tsb/2010/T-SB-0146-10.pdf As you can see, every other vehicle that uses this engine (or the 2.7L version) is included. Scion service bulletins may normally be listed separately a la Lexus service bulletins, but if so, a separate bulletin for the tC does not presently exist.

I think it's also prudent to show you what the sound is that I'm experiencing.Here's a link on youtube to an audio clip that sounds almost identical to my tC. Even though it's not causing any drivability concerns per se, it's very annoying and is audible inside and outside the vehicle at startup.


In summary, I want to know if anyone else has experienced this issue and/or anyone knows what else can be done to remedy this fault. I've already had Toyota involved and they are as-yet unwilling to do anything about it. I want them to acknowledge the issue first and foremost so that the part changes listed in TSB 0146-10 can be applied to my car and hopefully fix the problem. A brand new car should not sound like this at startup.

Very nice write up.

Although I dont have the new tC, I am also getting the same issue on my 2005. It may be becuase its an old model, but other 2005 tC's that ive been around seem to have the same issue.

Very annoying, and makes me feel like im driving a sh!t box.

Will be following this thread

I suffer from such start ups noise. (2005 Tc, 90K miles) read the PDF, seems to be a full day's job.

this may be a stupid question so I apologize first hand, but what are the consequences of this issue on the engine/car?

Thanks

You may not have any error codes that have tripped yet, but you might want to check your O2 sensors to make sure they aren't cracked.

I've had a rattle that sounded like it was coming from my engine but it was actually a cracked O2 sensor on my xB2. The CEL would stay on periodically and then would disappear for extended periods.

I appreciate the interest you guys have taken in this thread, but the issue with the 2011 tC is bound to be a different one than that of the prior generation. I don't want this thread to go off-topic: the issue with mine is with the camshaft assembly, not the O2 sensors or anything else.

damn i guess i wasnt the only one noticing this, i noticed my car got a little louder on cold starts especially and sometimes its pretty bad where it reminds me of my ex's celica not long before it blew up. thankfully my motors not knocking like that or shaking violently for that matter. if there really is a problem with our motor i really hope it can get fixed because my other 2 toyotas never really seemed to do this. im definately going to keep an eye on this thread and see if i can have a couple dealers look at my car

Yeah my car does the same thing at cold start ups. Kinda like dry starting. Also the dealer told me that it wasnt something to worry about. I still think my engine shouldnt sound like that on a 2011 tc2

I suffer from it as well, always wondered why it was way worse on this car for cold starts than any other car I've ever been around.

I am hoping to put some pressure on Toyota as more people step forward. I want them to know that we do not accept this as normal behavior, especially when Toyota has a TSB out for all their other vehicles with the exact same engine. Please subscribe to this thread if you have an affected vehicle.

What about caling corp? The dealer may be balking at it for whatever reason. I had to take my car to 2 dealerships a total of 3 times before I finally got them to pull my trans because it grinded going into 3rd if I shifted quick. They said its normal and it slow down and let the rpms drop then shift. I told them it didn't do when I bought it....so why now

Has yours done this from the start? Id say call scion and see what they say

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I've gone as far as having a representative from Toyota of the Southeast come down and personally inspect the vehicle. His response to my concern was neither entirely truthful nor informative.

My engine started rattling at around 1k miles, so very soon after purchase.

nice, i thought i was the only one experiencing this. My engine started rattling on startup at around 3 thousand miles. i took it in to get it checked out and the dealership told me it was normal...

I just got off the phone with a representative from Scion customer service. It appears that there is only one way Scion is ever going to acknowledge this issue, and it requires a little work from you guys if you're willing.

If you're experiencing this issue, please call Scion customer service at 1-866-707-2466 and tell them about this issue. It might not hurt to also mention that you believe you are experiencing the issue described in T-SB-0146-10.

If you haven't taken your car to the dealer yet about this issue they may require that they duplicate it on that level first, but it doesn't hurt to call and take 5 minutes of your time to hopefully get some sort of resolution on this. Please let me know if you're willing to contact Scion about this!

Thank you VVTinme for posting your experience. We do encourage anybody having concerns to contact us and to bring the vehicle in to the dealership so that it can be documented both at the dealer level and at the corporate office.

Is there evidence which suggests our vehicles are already supposed to have the fix incorporated at the time of manufacture, or is the lack of applicability of this TSB to our vehicles more to do with the lack of complaint received from Scion owners?

I strongly believe it's the latter.

Depends on the view of the situation. Dealers don't ever seem to want to handle warranty work.... and manufacturers don't wanna admit design defects (every f'ing tc s/c kit made)

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It does not matter if one or a 1,000 Tc2's have the problem. Any dealership/ mechanic worth his weight in poop would have already torn that engine down to find the issue. That engine sounds horrid, something is going to let go in it soon. That is not a cold start valve rattle... ie; no oil on valves/springs. 2 ways I know to handle this problem, trade it in or make a NASTY scene in the middle of showroom. Do it on a day when plenty of potential customers are shopping. It's dirty but they are obviously showing you no respect either. It should not take a million TC owners to complain to fix a factory defect so obvious. I had a very similar problem with a Honda Civic once. They treated me the same way as you. I eventually had to stoop to their level and be an arse to get it fixed. I have never gone back to that dealer nor will I ever buy a Honda again based on their poor customer service.

Unfortunately I do not have the gall to do such a thing, and because of my age, I doubt I would be taken seriously anyway. (I'm a young adult.)

With that said, however, I have repeatedly expressed my dissatisfaction over the phone to Scion customer service, and as someone who has only owned Toyota products in his life (3 including the tC), and drove them before he could afford his own, they will be losing a loyal owner and fan if they don't get their ____ together.

Also, whoever does the math at Scion is a fool. The repeated visits to the dealer for diagnostic work have undoubtedly approached if not exceeded the cost of the repair. Apparently it's not worth it to avoid negative publicity and to earn a customer's trust with a simple goodwill gesture.

Jennifer@Scion take note. I will not be buying another Toyota anytime soon unless Scion reverses course. Simple "thank you's" are insulting.

I was not much older than you at the time...don't let them intimidate you. Your money is no different than someone my age. It does not take a master mechanic to realize you have a serious problem. Take the car to the service dept. and leave it. Tell them "Do not call me until it is fixed properly with documentation". They should provide you with a rental car as well. Do not take "no" for an answer on any of these terms. They will do it once they realize you are not willing to back down.
I agree 100% with you on Scion's rep. "Thank you" is insulting after receiving poor customer service, especially after what you have been through.