Chronic Ignition Coil Failures/Problems - Almost Crashed
11-07-2011, 05:27 PM
#1
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Chronic Ignition Coil Failures/Problems - Almost Crashed
Hi there... I'm new to this site but since I'm having such problems with my 2004 XB I thought I'd try here to get some advice. I have been having chronic coil failures.
At about 122K miles (2 yrs ago) my CEL light, VSC and Trac off light turned on and instantly the car began to rattle like hell (it was misfiring) but was still controllable. We found it was a bad coil so we changed the one bad coil. About a month later another coil (1 of the original stock coils) blew and we decided to change all 3 remaining coils of the original stock coils and all the spark plugs. Figured now I’d never worry about the problem again. The first two times I had a coil failure, I could at least still control the car and pull over safely.
Ironically, the coil problems began after incredibly heavy rains in which the car was outside, I wondered if perhaps it could have caused some sort of short circuit? I don’t know much about cars so I don’t know what details are potentially really important lol.
Last week at 137K miles, I had another coil failure. At this point, the new coils and spark plugs only had 15K miles on them or so and were 2 years old. This time, when the coil failed, I was going 45 through a busy intersection and out of nowhere with no warning signs my car threw the same lights. Within 2 seconds and no time to react, I lost power steering, power brakes and all fuel injection to the engine. This was terrifying because it was like hitting a brick wall at 45, the car just stopped with the engine on and I had no idea WTH was going on, I almost got hit by a car. I managed to get the car into a driveway and didn’t get hit. :?
Used the code reader (I bought one when this started happening) and it was another coil, P0353.
We replaced the coil at my local mechanic. I called two Toyota dealerships, they said don’t bring it in, we have no idea what’s wrong with it. Called Corporate and complained, they told the dealership to look at it and not charge me a diagnostic if the underlying problem isn’t diagnosed. Now the dealership called back and said there is nothing they can do until I blow another coil. They said there is no point in testing the ECM or ECU as they won’t show any problem since the coil is now working.
What do I do now? This car could kill me if it did that on a busy LA freeway going 80mph.
Has anyone had these kind of problems? There are no recalls, or TSB’s relating to this problem from what the dealership told me. There are only a handful of complaints with NHSTA for the 2004.
Thank you!
At about 122K miles (2 yrs ago) my CEL light, VSC and Trac off light turned on and instantly the car began to rattle like hell (it was misfiring) but was still controllable. We found it was a bad coil so we changed the one bad coil. About a month later another coil (1 of the original stock coils) blew and we decided to change all 3 remaining coils of the original stock coils and all the spark plugs. Figured now I’d never worry about the problem again. The first two times I had a coil failure, I could at least still control the car and pull over safely.
Ironically, the coil problems began after incredibly heavy rains in which the car was outside, I wondered if perhaps it could have caused some sort of short circuit? I don’t know much about cars so I don’t know what details are potentially really important lol.
Last week at 137K miles, I had another coil failure. At this point, the new coils and spark plugs only had 15K miles on them or so and were 2 years old. This time, when the coil failed, I was going 45 through a busy intersection and out of nowhere with no warning signs my car threw the same lights. Within 2 seconds and no time to react, I lost power steering, power brakes and all fuel injection to the engine. This was terrifying because it was like hitting a brick wall at 45, the car just stopped with the engine on and I had no idea WTH was going on, I almost got hit by a car. I managed to get the car into a driveway and didn’t get hit. :?
Used the code reader (I bought one when this started happening) and it was another coil, P0353.
We replaced the coil at my local mechanic. I called two Toyota dealerships, they said don’t bring it in, we have no idea what’s wrong with it. Called Corporate and complained, they told the dealership to look at it and not charge me a diagnostic if the underlying problem isn’t diagnosed. Now the dealership called back and said there is nothing they can do until I blow another coil. They said there is no point in testing the ECM or ECU as they won’t show any problem since the coil is now working.
What do I do now? This car could kill me if it did that on a busy LA freeway going 80mph.
Has anyone had these kind of problems? There are no recalls, or TSB’s relating to this problem from what the dealership told me. There are only a handful of complaints with NHSTA for the 2004.
Thank you!
11-07-2011, 05:39 PM
#2
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 137
i can't wait until my 04 gets to 122k now! what's strange is you lost power steering from the coil? i never heard of that happening! does the coil have any bearing whatsoever on the power steering? you live in la? my best advice is to go to another dealership! F@!K those guys! you have other toyota dealerships i'm sure!
11-07-2011, 07:09 PM
#3
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Yeah I'm pretty disappointed this XB isn't holding up very well. Every mechanic I've spoken to says they won't be able to figure out what is causing the coils to blow. I've spoken to 5 mechanics so far.
But the coil failure is the symptom, not the underlying problem, something is causing these coils to blow ya know?
No doubt, everyone thinks it's crazy I lost control of the car! The engine was on, lights worked, battery was fine, it didn't stall. In my opinion, what it seemed like (though I don't know much about cars) is that the computer did some sort of automatic shut down to stop the car, maybe it tripped some sort of safety thing?
To lose power steering, power brakes (though perhaps actually the ABS wasn't working and they locked vs losing power brake ability?) and all fuel injection seems like the car was dead set on stopping itself...
But the coil failure is the symptom, not the underlying problem, something is causing these coils to blow ya know?
No doubt, everyone thinks it's crazy I lost control of the car! The engine was on, lights worked, battery was fine, it didn't stall. In my opinion, what it seemed like (though I don't know much about cars) is that the computer did some sort of automatic shut down to stop the car, maybe it tripped some sort of safety thing?
To lose power steering, power brakes (though perhaps actually the ABS wasn't working and they locked vs losing power brake ability?) and all fuel injection seems like the car was dead set on stopping itself...
11-07-2011, 08:28 PM
#5
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I've haven't a lot of bad problems, just little one's that are to be expected with that many miles on the car.
Have you had many problems with your 2004??? If not, I'm jealous! LOL
I've had to do the following for the entire life of the car, not too bad:
Have you had many problems with your 2004??? If not, I'm jealous! LOL
I've had to do the following for the entire life of the car, not too bad:
- Front windshield cracked for no reason and to be replaced within the first few months (I see there are class action lawsuits for this)
- Water pump malfunctioned completely within 30K miles, was deemed a defective pump. It was replaced and covered under the warranty.
- The panel for the power locks and windows on the driver side has lifted from the door panel.
- Remote entry doesn't work anymore cuz the chips burned out in the actual doors (not the remote or that would be cheap to fix) within the first 100K miles.
- Had an air leak prior to the first coil problems, had to have that fixed.
- Had to replace the gas cap after throwing CEL lights recently.
- The hatch handle on the trunk ripped off a few weeks ago (I also see class action suits for this problem)
11-07-2011, 10:23 PM
#6
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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I've haven't a lot of bad problems, just little one's that are to be expected with that many miles on the car.
Have you had many problems with your 2004??? If not, I'm jealous! LOL
I've had to do the following for the entire life of the car, not too bad:
Have you had many problems with your 2004??? If not, I'm jealous! LOL
I've had to do the following for the entire life of the car, not too bad:
- Front windshield cracked for no reason and to be replaced within the first few months (I see there are class action lawsuits for this)
- Water pump malfunctioned completely within 30K miles, was deemed a defective pump. It was replaced and covered under the warranty.
- The panel for the power locks and windows on the driver side has lifted from the door panel.
- Remote entry doesn't work anymore cuz the chips burned out in the actual doors (not the remote or that would be cheap to fix) within the first 100K miles.
- Had an air leak prior to the first coil problems, had to have that fixed.
- Had to replace the gas cap after throwing CEL lights recently.
- The hatch handle on the trunk ripped off a few weeks ago (I also see class action suits for this problem)
that's not too bad. i haven't had any problems, but i only have 91k or 92k miles. i've had it since a little less than a hundred miles shy of 71k which was only 7 months ago! i just started a new job working maintenance in an apartment building. my commute is about 56 miles one way. i'm used to commuting such long ways, but with the price of gas it hurts. after my 90 days i'm getting an apartment in the building as part of a fringe benefit, and just gonna go home on weekends!
aside from a ticky exhaust which isn't loud just annoying. i think it's up by the manifold. been doing it since i got it. the shaking air box which most everyone says is a problem i don't have no problems with it. though i am getting new tires tomorrow! previous owner did brake pads. i'm loaning the xb to a buddy today who is using it to transport his grandmother, and his disabled grandfather to the airport. he has gotten into an xb before, and can't get in something low like a mustang, or too high like a pickup. i did get a nice trade off as he let me borrow his 03 mach 1 mustang the last 24 hours! thinking about just letting him keep the xb! hahahaha just kidding.
oh i forgot! it's now getting cooler again the xb does make a lot of strange noises! i thought they went away, but they just come back when it gets cold! almost sounds like a bad cv joint in cold weather, and when the car is cold when i make a sharp turn. i think it's just some bushings or something. almost like how in pretty much every car or truck when going over a speed bump in real cold weather it makes a creaking noise.
11-07-2011, 11:09 PM
#7
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Sounds like you don't have many problems with it at all! That's great!! I would totally keep the mustang instead haha ;) (I have a 1965 Mustang in the garage that's almost paid off and ready for a new engine).
When you mentioned your exhaust and strange noises, it reminded me of something. I do have a weird kinda throaty noise that comes from the exhaust when I'm accelerating from stop to about 15 mph. I almost didn't pass smog last year, i assume the two things are related but not sure as I'm new to learning about cars. Haven't fixed it cuz it hasn't really been a big issue.
I'm assuming the problem now is really the ECM or the ECU. My mom's boyfriend is an electrical engineer and we discussed my problems at length. He looked up the schematics for the XB (2005 was all he could find since our cars we're a limited release) and he's convinced it's the ECM. I always figured it was the computer controlling the coils cuz I keep having the problem even after the coils are replaced. But mechanics just kinda look at me like "your a little girl who doesn't know about cars" instead of investigating my claims.
All in all, I think it's a great car! I think my problem is very rare and hard to diagnose, but I don't think it's something common with XB's or I would find more about it on the internet. I'm mostly just angry that Toyota won't do anything about it.
When you mentioned your exhaust and strange noises, it reminded me of something. I do have a weird kinda throaty noise that comes from the exhaust when I'm accelerating from stop to about 15 mph. I almost didn't pass smog last year, i assume the two things are related but not sure as I'm new to learning about cars. Haven't fixed it cuz it hasn't really been a big issue.
I'm assuming the problem now is really the ECM or the ECU. My mom's boyfriend is an electrical engineer and we discussed my problems at length. He looked up the schematics for the XB (2005 was all he could find since our cars we're a limited release) and he's convinced it's the ECM. I always figured it was the computer controlling the coils cuz I keep having the problem even after the coils are replaced. But mechanics just kinda look at me like "your a little girl who doesn't know about cars" instead of investigating my claims.
All in all, I think it's a great car! I think my problem is very rare and hard to diagnose, but I don't think it's something common with XB's or I would find more about it on the internet. I'm mostly just angry that Toyota won't do anything about it.
11-08-2011, 04:27 AM
#8
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i had a 99 corolla before this, and was pretty lucky with that. it didn't start giving me constant problems until the 180k's. that, and the xb are actually the only 2 front wheel drive cars i've ever owned! i'm always convinced my transmission is going too. not just in the xb, but everything i've ever owned! if i hear a weird noise i think it's the transmission! i'm thinking every now, and then the exhaust ticking is the trans, but 99% sure it's not!
yeah i can hear the exhaust when accelerating like you said. it's up in the front. sounds like it's behind the glove compartment. it makes noise when starting it up too, and idling. it is most noticeable at lower speeds though. i have an ear for things! like i always say though. if you let every noise bother you you're gonna be spending a lot of unnecessary money on your car, and you'll be broke. you might think it's something, and then the mechanic is gonna tell you you're right, and it really is bad. he's gonna fix it for you whether it's bad or not, and then on to the next noise, and repeat! either that or you''ll take your car back from the mechanic, he fixes what you thought was wrong, and you still hear the noise, and realize it was something else that was no problem at all!
yeah i can hear the exhaust when accelerating like you said. it's up in the front. sounds like it's behind the glove compartment. it makes noise when starting it up too, and idling. it is most noticeable at lower speeds though. i have an ear for things! like i always say though. if you let every noise bother you you're gonna be spending a lot of unnecessary money on your car, and you'll be broke. you might think it's something, and then the mechanic is gonna tell you you're right, and it really is bad. he's gonna fix it for you whether it's bad or not, and then on to the next noise, and repeat! either that or you''ll take your car back from the mechanic, he fixes what you thought was wrong, and you still hear the noise, and realize it was something else that was no problem at all!
11-26-2011, 04:07 PM
#9
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Yeah I'm pretty disappointed this XB isn't holding up very well. Every mechanic I've spoken to says they won't be able to figure out what is causing the coils to blow. I've spoken to 5 mechanics so far.
But the coil failure is the symptom, not the underlying problem, something is causing these coils to blow ya know?
No doubt, everyone thinks it's crazy I lost control of the car! The engine was on, lights worked, battery was fine, it didn't stall. In my opinion, what it seemed like (though I don't know much about cars) is that the computer did some sort of automatic shut down to stop the car, maybe it tripped some sort of safety thing?
To lose power steering, power brakes (though perhaps actually the ABS wasn't working and they locked vs losing power brake ability?) and all fuel injection seems like the car was dead set on stopping itself...
But the coil failure is the symptom, not the underlying problem, something is causing these coils to blow ya know?
No doubt, everyone thinks it's crazy I lost control of the car! The engine was on, lights worked, battery was fine, it didn't stall. In my opinion, what it seemed like (though I don't know much about cars) is that the computer did some sort of automatic shut down to stop the car, maybe it tripped some sort of safety thing?
To lose power steering, power brakes (though perhaps actually the ABS wasn't working and they locked vs losing power brake ability?) and all fuel injection seems like the car was dead set on stopping itself...
12-02-2013, 03:20 PM
#10
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1
Common problem with Scion XB-Coil pack failures
You and probably several thousand others (including me) are having this issue with 1st Gen Scion XB's. Mine is a 2005. It is I believe a symptom.
I replace one failed CP at 90,000 miles. The other three at 105K and now another of replacements has failed at 113K. I replaced plugs when I changed out the three others a while back with OEM plugs per users manual. That had no effect on life of CP's.
I am a professional aircraft mechanic so I understand troubleshooting and engine electrical systems...and this is not a CP issue as much as it is a symptom of another failed system putting too much on the CP's and causing failure.
This can and probably will cause a fatality because it occurs at random because of the serious and significant disruption in power. In my case, the current failed CP works one day and fails the next then starts working again, with abrupt engine hesitation and lack of acceleration. [The reason I continued to drive after first failure and clearing up was that symptoms felt like water in fuel. My guess was the water passed on through the system] However after it failed a second time, we put the code checker on and it shower failed CP. So, I parked the car.
I plan on writing a letter to SCION and make this clear. There needs to be a paper trail of this serious issue before someone gets killed.
I have parked my Scion for now until I get this resolved with SCION.
I replace one failed CP at 90,000 miles. The other three at 105K and now another of replacements has failed at 113K. I replaced plugs when I changed out the three others a while back with OEM plugs per users manual. That had no effect on life of CP's.
I am a professional aircraft mechanic so I understand troubleshooting and engine electrical systems...and this is not a CP issue as much as it is a symptom of another failed system putting too much on the CP's and causing failure.
This can and probably will cause a fatality because it occurs at random because of the serious and significant disruption in power. In my case, the current failed CP works one day and fails the next then starts working again, with abrupt engine hesitation and lack of acceleration. [The reason I continued to drive after first failure and clearing up was that symptoms felt like water in fuel. My guess was the water passed on through the system] However after it failed a second time, we put the code checker on and it shower failed CP. So, I parked the car.
I plan on writing a letter to SCION and make this clear. There needs to be a paper trail of this serious issue before someone gets killed.
I have parked my Scion for now until I get this resolved with SCION.
01-22-2015, 01:05 AM
#11
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 11
I'm having the same exact problem. The ignition coil in cylinder one is missing. I've replaced it and for a few months it ran great and now it's sputtering when in gear. When it's in park or neutral it runs great. I have also replaced the fuel injector and used a CRC Mass air flow sensor cleaner from the air intake and clean the platinum wires inside the sensor. MAF cleaner was a recommendation from those who post on Youtube. Clean the MAF after every air filter change. I have spoken to Toyota/Scion parts department and they recommend the genuine Toyota ignition coil. Who knows?
09-22-2016, 10:02 PM
#12
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Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 4
Sounds like you don't have many problems with it at all! That's great!! I would totally keep the mustang instead haha ;) (I have a 1965 Mustang in the garage that's almost paid off and ready for a new engine).
When you mentioned your exhaust and strange noises, it reminded me of something. I do have a weird kinda throaty noise that comes from the exhaust when I'm accelerating from stop to about 15 mph. I almost didn't pass smog last year, i assume the two things are related but not sure as I'm new to learning about cars. Haven't fixed it cuz it hasn't really been a big issue.
I'm assuming the problem now is really the ECM or the ECU. My mom's boyfriend is an electrical engineer and we discussed my problems at length. He looked up the schematics for the XB (2005 was all he could find since our cars we're a limited release) and he's convinced it's the ECM. I always figured it was the computer controlling the coils cuz I keep having the problem even after the coils are replaced. But mechanics just kinda look at me like "your a little girl who doesn't know about cars" instead of investigating my claims.
All in all, I think it's a great car! I think my problem is very rare and hard to diagnose, but I don't think it's something common with XB's or I would find more about it on the internet. I'm mostly just angry that Toyota won't do anything about it.
When you mentioned your exhaust and strange noises, it reminded me of something. I do have a weird kinda throaty noise that comes from the exhaust when I'm accelerating from stop to about 15 mph. I almost didn't pass smog last year, i assume the two things are related but not sure as I'm new to learning about cars. Haven't fixed it cuz it hasn't really been a big issue.
I'm assuming the problem now is really the ECM or the ECU. My mom's boyfriend is an electrical engineer and we discussed my problems at length. He looked up the schematics for the XB (2005 was all he could find since our cars we're a limited release) and he's convinced it's the ECM. I always figured it was the computer controlling the coils cuz I keep having the problem even after the coils are replaced. But mechanics just kinda look at me like "your a little girl who doesn't know about cars" instead of investigating my claims.
All in all, I think it's a great car! I think my problem is very rare and hard to diagnose, but I don't think it's something common with XB's or I would find more about it on the internet. I'm mostly just angry that Toyota won't do anything about it.
BlueEyez... did you ever figure out what was wrong? I have a 2008 scion XB which Is having the same problem. I changed out CP#1 after getting a PO301 code (cylinder 1 misfire). The problem still persisted. I would feel like a low rough idle when at a stop light and most especially with the AC on. Now the CEL came back on and it is saying all 4 CP's are bad, along with a PO302 (cylinder 2 misfire), PO102 Mass airflow circuit on, and PO113 ( intake air temp high temperature). I believe it is the ECM/ECU also.
02-03-2023, 10:36 AM
#13
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Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 1
Giving my 2¢
I’ve had the same problem, having to change CP once a year, spark plugs twice a year. I have a ‘05 xa, and have watched water that gets trapped on top near the cp’s dissapear under the seal and into the canal resulting in misfires etc.
02-04-2023, 11:31 AM
#15
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Mesa, AZ USA
Posts: 706
Do the spark plug holes have a drain to let water out?
What do the plugs look like when they come out? are they rusty?
I often wonder if coil pack failures are caused by poor or corroded connections between the CP and harness. None of that stuff is truly waterproof.
What do the plugs look like when they come out? are they rusty?
I often wonder if coil pack failures are caused by poor or corroded connections between the CP and harness. None of that stuff is truly waterproof.
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