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-   -   Dealer,pulleytips>>Now what!!! An INTAKE of course! (https://www.scionlife.com/forums/scion-xa-xb-1st-gen-drivetrain-power-1638/dealer-pulleytips-now-what-intake-course-68815/)

ghostrider25 08-21-2006 05:15 AM

yes my 06 Xa has no rubber on the stock pulley I don't know why it wasn't there if it should be but it is solid metal and the pulley wasn't powdercoated like the pic posted here on the site. thats mainly the reason I had no problem changing to a lighter crank pulley besides all of the SCCA guys sayin it was ok on the echos. I have an aoutomatic 06 Xa

vintage42 08-21-2006 02:38 PM


Originally Posted by ghostrider25
... the 06 pulley isn't the same as the 04...


Originally Posted by ghostrider25
... my 06 Xa has no rubber on the stock pulley...

I went to Oxmoor Toyota/Scion and had them look up the applications for Part No. 13407-21020 Damper Assemby. That part is for both xA and xB from 2003 through 2006. Chadfo's 2004 xB has rubber, and my 2006 xB has rubber. From all that, one would think all the dampers are the same and they all have rubber, but from what you are saying, the 2006 xA's no longer have the rubber.

vintage42 08-21-2006 02:52 PM


Originally Posted by ghostrider25
... I could pull the rubber off there wasn't very much...

You were probably picking and pulling off the exposed edge of what is a rubber ring or band that extends inward for the full thickness of the pulley.
http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/...lleyOEM001.jpg
The rubber is a layer that is laminated between the spoked center and the outer ring of the pulley.
If the rubber were just a strip applied to the outside of the pulley, that could be pulled off, then the rubber could not use its elasticity to work with the pulley's weight to provide harmonic dampening.

blown_xa 08-22-2006 01:30 AM

Re: Dealer just told me>>>
 

Originally Posted by awdisuzu
if you throw a rod, it is easilly caused by not having the stock harmonic dampener installed. if you use a lightened pulley, don't expect the motor to last long - especially if you cruise at 80 mph.

good luck!
~mike~



Originally Posted by metal112524
Well i just got word from the dealer that if i put on my recently purchased pulley, that i can say good bye to my warranty. THIS IS BS!! RIGHT!?! thats only true if they can find it to be the direct cause of the problem in question not, the entire warranty being voided.


this is'nt true for the xa xb or tc, they don't come with a dampening crank pulley, they are cast steel (solid), no damper

blown_xa 08-22-2006 01:35 AM

okok, i just read a post and it may prove me wrong... lemme go look at my pulley more closely...........

ghostrider25 08-22-2006 06:30 AM

mike I read that whole thread you posted from and the guy finally concluded it was ok to install the crank pulley and his father worked in parts another selective example fo ripping posts. how could he make a statement like that anyway considering there has never been an engine failure it strikes me as odd that throwing a rod would be blamed when there have been no failures I think the thread is dead some people are going to take one side some people are going to take the other until there are verified engine failures I think we should all consider restraint because alot of people are going to look really bad who are saying stuff about the crank pullies when they have been thoroughly tested on the echo's for years with no failures posted anywhere. The echo has the same engine for those of you who don't know. and the lightened pullies have been thouroughly track tested. I'm going to drop off the thread because I have made my point and until you can show me engine failures which there is no disclaimer on some of these pullies which would make the manufacturer liable I'm not to worried there have been many years they have been in use with no problems. The guy who made that post was an obvious noob and thats ok but to take a statement from a newbie and make it sound like he is extremely knowledgable about the crank pullies is misleading.

pandaslayer 08-22-2006 05:59 PM

i love my perrin pulley. no way would I give it up.

plus after looking at the stock pulley, it's definetly not a balancer or dampener.

vintage42 08-22-2006 11:42 PM


Originally Posted by pandaslayer
... after looking at the stock pulley, it's definetly not a balancer or dampener.

It is rather obvious, is it not?

Tim_Carr 08-23-2006 07:46 PM

^^^^^^^What????^^^^^ :rofl:

pandaslayer 08-23-2006 08:38 PM

yea I dun understand

ghostrider25 08-23-2006 11:42 PM

I will also add this same basic argument has been running on the echo forums since the year 2000 and guess what no pullies have blown up any engines. Some guy even tried to use an example of crank pullies failing on BMW M3 as an example. He linked people to a website and the guy who wrote the article claiming it was the ppullies was an idiot because the BMW M3 in the years in question had terible crank bearing problems and the crank was later found to also have defects causing weaknesses from the factory. Of course the lightened pullies caught the heat and the folk lore began about the crank pullies. well guess what the stock pullies were failing as well on the M3 as well in that case because the cranks were snapping like twigs or the crank bearings were locking up. I understand people being skeptical and worrying. I am very skeptikal of alot of parts myself. I do take the time to do the research and find out as much as I can about something before making an educated decision. All modifications to a car have an inherint risk so does driving and walking down stairs but we take these risks everyday.

I did do some research for you guys and the oldest car that I can find that has a crank pulley still in operation that the motor has not been rebuilt is a 2001 echo running an unorthodox underdrive pulley he has 275,000 miles on the car and is an avid racer. The guy has tons of other race modifications to the car as well as boost on stock internals. You can verify this on the echo forums http://www.echodrivers.com/ it took some searching I read countless threads and arguments from when these things came out in 2000 and they are still running fine today with no issues. So thats the most honest analisis I can give anybody that the 1nzfe engine has made it 275,000 miles without blowing up on an underdriven lightened crank pulley by unorthodox and I think the perrin or agency would be a better choice. For people with manual the perrin for sure if your not planning on lightening the flywheel they will cancel each other out if you do both it's pointless you will get the same efect as if you did one so just choose one or the other to do. For the automatics the Agency power pulley is lighter and is a better choice and you can really tell a huge diffrence some people withthe manuals claim they don't notice a huge diffrence with an automatic you will.

chadfo 08-24-2006 12:45 AM


For people with manual the perrin for sure if your not planning on lightening the flywheel they will cancel each other out if you do both it's pointless you will get the same efect as if you did one so just choose one or the other to do.
How would these cancel each other out? Changing both would mean MUCH less rotational weight which is the whole point.

ghostrider25 08-24-2006 05:54 AM

well I was refering to boost applications specifiacally but on natrually aspirated you would lose even more downshifting capability and trust me thats a real bad thing. They also cancel themselves out in the fact that you are going to be real slow off the line maybe i should have been more clear. it's pretty well known with the wrx's you do one or the other not both bad idea.

ghostrider25 08-25-2006 05:54 AM

ok I spoke with unorthodox and perrin today on the phone they haven't had a single failure unorthodox had one claimed failure by a dealer the whole time they had been selling pullies since 2000 and it turned out to be caused by NOS not the pulley. I also went even further and checked with the better buisness buruea and there have been no complaints about pullies on the scions or the echos at all I feel like I got a very straight forward and honest answer from both companies. One of the guys that works at unorthodox used to do pulley desighn and testing for honda and toyota he is an engineer and explained to me in depth about the scion engine. I can usually tell when somone is lying pretty well so I would say if you have concerns before you buy a pulley call them ask all the questions you want because they didn't mind answering any of the questions I asked and they went into detail about all the testing procedures for the pullies before they are ever sold to the public. But instead of me trying to repeat what was explained to me and it being taken out of context people can call them yourselves but I feel very confident that the pullies are perfectly safe after todays conversations.

ghostrider25 08-25-2006 08:32 AM

well here is from the horses mouth go look in the fact section at unorthodox for more info.

People are getting their crank pulleys confused with the harmonic dampers found on some V6 / V8 engines. "Harmonic Balancer" is a term used loosely in the automotive industry. Technically, this type of device does not exist. The "balancer" part comes from engines that are externally balanced and have a counterweight cast into the damper, hence the merging of the two terms. None of the applications we offer use a counterweight as part of the pulley, as these engines are all internally balanced.

The pulleys on most of the new import and smaller domestic engines have an elastomer (rubber ring) incorporated into the pulley that makes them look similar to a harmonic damper. The elastomer in the OEM pulley serves as an isolator, which is there to suppress natural vibration and noise from the engine itself, the A/C compressor, P/S pump, and alternator. This is what the manufacturers call NVH (Noise Vibration & Harshness) when referring to noticeable noise and vibration in the passenger compartment. It is important to note in these applications, the elastomer is inadequate in size and durability to act as an effective torsional damper. If you look at the pulleys on some imports there is no rubber to be found at all. We have samples of these, mostly from Acura/Honda, the Nissan Altima, 1.8L Eclipse, 2.3L Fords, Chrysler 2.2L's, and 1.8L VW's, to mention a few. This is not to say with our pulleys you will hear a ton of noise or feel more vibration from your engine compartment. Most owners who have installed our pulleys notice the engine actually feels smoother. This is result of replacing the heavy crank pulley with our crank pulley. NVH is variable and unique to every car. NVH will increase with the installation of an aftermarket intake and/or exhaust, for example. Think of OEM intake systems in newer cars, they use baffles and resonators in the intake to quiet all the intake noise. Aftermarket intakes eliminate these resonators and create dramatic increases in engine noise from the throttle opening and closing. So to most tuners, certain types of NVH can make the driving experience more enjoyable.

The purpose of a traditional harmonic damper is to protect against crank failure from torsional movement. This is not necessary in most modern engines because of the many advances in engine design and materials. Factors such as stroke length, displacement, inline, V configurations, piston dwell time, piston pin off-set, power output, etc., do determine when and how these harmonics and torsional movements occur.

Again, there is a lot of internet hearsay about crank pulleys. When engine problems occur, too often people are quick to blame the pulley first, rather than taking the time to look logically into why there was a problem. We hope that after reading this you will understand the crank pulleys better

ghostrider25 08-25-2006 08:37 AM

I think the issue has been fully adressed now and I hope you skeptics are apeased I went through alot of research and trouble to get the right information and make sure nobody was covering anything up what they say is the truth as far as I can see and I think they properly adress all concerns logically and everything can be backed up by physics which has been thouroughly expressed on the echo forums by people who desighn these things for cars and industrial machines. So go get a pulley and start enjoying the benifits of your cars potential performance or lighten the flywheel and get a SPEC clutch they honestly make some of the best clutches in the buisness I ran there cluthches in my manuals for years and have never seen a company that produces clutches to the quality that they do.

pandaslayer 08-25-2006 02:17 PM

thanks for all of the info. hell, I love my pulley.


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