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Scion xA/xB 1st-Gen Suspension & Handling Coilovers, Shocks, Airbags, Swaybars...

Suspension rebuild and some questions...[edited]

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Old May 3, 2021 | 01:53 PM
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Default Suspension rebuild and some questions...[edited]

Not posting for any particular reason except to share some of my joy and relief:

Edit: I'm hoping to switch this from a pointless vanity post to something more useful and didn't want to start a new thread. Additional stuff in my reply below.



The hubs, braided brake lines, lugs and poly axle bushings are all brand new. I'm really excited by the progress and am looking forward to getting the front suspension done this month as soon as I get my grubby paws on the remaining parts I need. I'd also like to offer some comments on removing rusted, fifteen year old hubs. First of all, best of luck trying to use a slide hammer. All I managed to do with it is annoy my neighbors for three straight days. You also aren't likely to have much success using bolts, nuts and washers on the flange side as an improvised puller. Your best bet is to get some longer bolts (M8x1.25, I think - about four inches long), thread them in just like the stock ones go and then mercilessly wail on them from the inside with the biggest hammer you can find. I probably should have taken some additional photos and done a little write-up, so apologies for failing to do so. My anger and frustration were at record levels.

___

Last edited by MPRZ; May 6, 2021 at 07:15 PM. Reason: edited to solicit answers
Old May 6, 2021 | 06:34 PM
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I'm going to start on the front end bushing replacement tomorrow night and have some questions I'd like to throw out to some of you with lowered xBs. I'm particularly interested in which ball joints and tie rods some of you might be using, because my brain is cooking up some potentially stupid ideas that could use a sanity check. My car is lowered on H&R springs by 1.5" in the front, and the ball joints and tie rods are stock (as in geometry, not age). The steering feel is numb, to be quite honest, and the suspension feels like it's getting uncomfortably close to the bump stops on harder cornering. I'd like to improve this situation in any way that I can.

One option I've been considering is extended ball joints for roll center correction. I've found a kit for the Yaris/Vitz platform which just so happens to share the OEM ball joint part number with the 1st gen xB. Now I know that using parts not explicitly marked for the vehicle you're using them on is generally ill advised, but I can't think of any technical reason it would be a problem. Thoughts on this are welcome and appreciated.

The second thing I've been contemplating is what I could possibly do to fix the numbness and mild bump steer I've noticed. There aren't any misalignment kits available (that I could find, at least) specifically for this application. I thought about measuring the taper and thread pitch on the OEM tie rod ends to see if I could find an kit that matches, but I'm not confident I'll have much luck. The only other option I could think of - and it's a longshot - would be to fabricate spacers to raise the position of the steering rack from the subframe by about half an inch, but it looks like I'd run into some interference issues with the steering column.

In the end I'll probably just leave the geometry as-is and just deal with it, but not without exploring all available options first. I would love to hear any ideas you might have though.
Old May 7, 2021 | 07:35 PM
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Steering-axis inclination and scrub-radius has A LOT to do with steering feel. Do you have stock wheels? If aftermarket, do they have same offset as stock?
Old May 7, 2021 | 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
Steering-axis inclination and scrub-radius has A LOT to do with steering feel. Do you have stock wheels? If aftermarket, do they have same offset as stock?
The wheels I have on it now are off from stock by about 12mm. I picked them up for cheap just to play around with sizing and most likely won't be keeping them. I'm planning on getting a set of RPF1s later this summer, and the fronts will be the stock offset. The symptoms I described though are noticeable with the stock wheels though.
Old May 8, 2021 | 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by MPRZ
The wheels I have on it now are off from stock by about 12mm. I picked them up for cheap just to play around with sizing and most likely won't be keeping them. I'm planning on getting a set of RPF1s later this summer, and the fronts will be the stock offset. The symptoms I described though are noticeable with the stock wheels though.
Huh OK. Make sure everything is to Spec then.

1. Ball joint and Tie-rod ends not worn.

2. Alignment:
Zero Camber - If tire's not laying flat on ground it tends to cause vague feel. Also reduces braking traction as well.
Toe - should be set to maximum end of range
Caster - not adjustable, but can be set somewhat by loosening cross member bolts and sliding it forward as much as possible. then tighten bolts back down.
Or use shims or adjustable bolts. I prefer caster in 3-3.5 degree range, Gives better self-correcting centering and more stability at high-speeds

____

Last edited by MR_LUV; May 9, 2021 at 04:03 AM.
Old May 11, 2021 | 01:06 PM
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DannoXYZ, thanks for the input. I did a bit of thinking last night and realized I'm compounding the problem by introducing too many variables. The tie rods and ball joints are new as of last year. This weekend I pulled the passenger side control arm and replaced the bushings. The stock ones weren't in terrible condition, but I did notice that the vertical barrel one at the rear (not sure what it's technically called) was partially separated from its steel sleeve and had quite a bit of slop in its travel. I replaced it with a Whiteline bushing and replaced the front one with a poly bushing. I'll do the same for the driver side tonight and am hoping this will tighten things up quite a bit. I also will be parting ways with the aftermarket wheels I currently have. I bit the bullet and purchased some new wheels with a much more appropriate offset. Once they arrive and have tires mounted, I'll revisit this thread with updates. I'd test it with my stock wheels, but the tires on those are pretty much bald - I set them aside to have winter tires mounted instead. Thanks again for talking me through this. Sometimes I just need to hear another perspective to attain some needed clarity through the fog of upgrade-itis.

By the way, I mentioned roll center correction earlier - this is what I was referring to:
https://hardraceusa.com/products/toy...69a9a42b&_ss=r
They're not explicitly marked for the xB, but I did a little digging and found that the OEM ball joint part number for the Yaris is the same. If the condition persists after the aforementioned changes, I might get a little daring and look into these.

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