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Sway Bars 101

Old 07-29-2004, 09:03 PM
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Default Sway Bars 101

Name the company and the sizes of the bar and I will add them to my post. When I do that I will delete the post it came from just to keep it cleaned up in here and easy to read in here.

C-ONE FSB = 28 mm

WhiteLines RSB = 22mm

Hotchkis FSB = 28.575mm
Hotchkis RSB = 12.7mm (addon bar)

Progress RSB = 22mm (addon bar)
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Old 07-30-2004, 07:00 PM
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Default Re: Sway Bars 101

Originally Posted by kwicslvr
Name the company and the sizes of the bar and I will add them to my post. When I do that I will delete the post it came from just to keep it cleaned up in here and easy to read in here.
Front sway bar =C-ONE 28mm
Rear Sway Bar = WhiteLines 22mm
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Old 08-02-2004, 11:26 PM
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I thought this was a more in depth description of how to install. What is this threads intentions??
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Old 08-04-2004, 03:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Buebie
I thought this was a more in depth description of how to install. What is this threads intentions??
Actually, you had me fooled to kwicslvr, I thought you had the install procedure down. So this really can't be a sticky than, can it?
 
Old 08-04-2004, 11:58 PM
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It was created because of all the different bars available out there. We need to find out all the different sizes so when people are looking for the sizes they can find them all in one thread. Eventually it can be moved to the FAQ section which is were the install should be also.
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Old 08-13-2004, 12:03 PM
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doesnt hotchkis make one
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Old 08-31-2004, 02:47 PM
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Hotchkis=28.575 mm fsb
=12.7 mm rsb add on
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Old 10-04-2004, 03:54 PM
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Since I am new to the Scion scene, I wonder what would be the stock ones measured? Ummm, I mean if both the xA and xB came with stock f/r sway bars?!

Thanks!
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Old 10-17-2004, 07:40 AM
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can you also add wether they are solid or hollow?

That definately makes a difference and I remember seeing somewhere that some are hollow. It should help to differenciate between the many 22mm rears.
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Old 11-18-2004, 11:48 PM
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It's my understanding that front anti-sway bars actaully contribute to understeer. They force you to back off on the speed in a turn before you are actually out of lateral grip. It makes the car "safer" for less experienced drivers, which is why most cars come with them, but they don't actually improve handling beyond a certain point.

I learned a lot of what I know from a VW/Audi/Porsche suspension expert up in MA (Dick Shine) and he doesn't include front sway bars in any of the custom suspension systems he built. He usually recommends leaving the stock bar, definitely NOT a thicker front bar. He suggests removing the front bar altogther in some cases for experienced drivers.

Even though he was mainly a VW guy, its relevant here:

The xB is a front engine, front wheel drive compact with Mac Struts in the front and a torsion beam rear suspension.... and so are every single VW Jetta, Golf and New Beetle on the road. ;)

Here's how he explains it:

"Volkswagens have between 65-70% of their weight over their front wheels which causes understeer. Larger front sway bars cause more understeer and unload the inside front wheel during hard cornering resulting in wheelspin. This is a major handicap, especially when autocrossing. Shine Racing suspensions are designed to minimize understeer and increase grip."

I think that the xB has a better weight distribution ratio than that, but, like any FWD, front engine car, the balance of the weight is over the front wheels with the engine, transaxle etc..
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Old 11-18-2004, 11:57 PM
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My instincts tell me to get the stiffest rear bar I can find and leave the front alone. Has anyone gone that route?
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Old 11-19-2004, 02:05 AM
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yes.

I've done that in my xA and in my Z. For both, I have the stock front sway bar, and the rear with the stiffest I could find or set to the stiffest stetting.

At the moment, in the xA, I can't get into oversteer unless I trailbrake oversteer. I can't throttle oversteer yet, so I'm thinking I could actually stiffen the rear more. When I would trailbrake oversteer, it needed to be done really really deep into the turn and I'd have to really really try.

Taking out the front sway bar isn't a bad idea! Man, I can't believe I never thought of that. By the next track event I attend in late January, I'm shooting to get springs installed before then. If I still don't have enough oversteer, I may do just that. Take OUT the front sway bar! I hope by then I've figured out how to disable the stability control system.. grrr..
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Old 12-24-2004, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by nest
My instincts tell me to get the stiffest rear bar I can find and leave the front alone. Has anyone gone that route?
Actually, what we do in our racing sports cars is to use the rear bar, generally smaller than the front, to "tune" the car's anti roll characteristics.
The VW Golf's are generally set up softer in the front, thats why they often lift the inside rear wheel on hard cornering.
My Sprite (front engine,rear drive) was the opposite: Lifted thae inside front.

Ideally, you want to corner with all four tires in contact with the ground.

We generally dont disconnect the swaybars unless it is raining.
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Old 01-13-2005, 10:49 PM
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Is there ANY benefit then to swapping out the front sway bar? Unfortunately I ordered hotchkis bars Before researching like a retard
*cancelled hotchkis and went with progress add on bar
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Old 01-22-2005, 11:24 PM
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I have the Progress rear bar on my xB and the stock bar on the front, It works for me, I have raced before in SCCA, Forget the upgrade on the front bar, If you want to drive your box to it's fullest, Just my 02 tho.
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Old 01-28-2005, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Xbilly
Is there ANY benefit then to swapping out the front sway bar? Unfortunately I ordered hotchkis bars Before researching like a retard
YES. The front sway will eliminate a larger measure of body roll and reduce yaw to a great degree. HOWEVER, this WILL translate to more understeer. If you can compensate for that with improved spring rates and /or larger rear bar, this can be a great aid for track use, but that is a big IF. So far, the options for these cars are limited. For most drivers, on a daily, the reduction in roll is a great feeling, but for someone wanting to take it closer to it's limits, the understeer can be frustrating.
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Old 01-28-2005, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by bulldog2g
For most drivers, on a daily, the reduction in roll is a great feeling, but for someone wanting to take it closer to it's limits, the understeer can be frustrating.
Well said. Although, if someone is looking for what's fastest, as was said before, only upgrade the rear as opposed to both. The only people who say different are those that never give autox/track results.
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Old 01-28-2005, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by lonewolfxb
I have the Progress rear bar on my xB and the stock bar on the front, It works for me, I have raced before in SCCA, Forget the upgrade on the front bar, If you want to drive your box to it's fullest, Just my 02 tho.
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Old 01-29-2005, 12:26 AM
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How hard are rear sways to install? Are there any clearance issues to worry about? For instance I have aftermarket exhaust (5Zigen) that hangs differently than the stock system.
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Old 01-29-2005, 01:30 AM
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easy install and no issues with exhaust systems

my strup hung low and this is with the progressive

look through the gallery of my business

http://www.partshippers.com/index.php?main_page=gallery
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