Sway Bars Discussion
12-01-2008, 07:06 PM
#101
great thread, ive learned a little.
with the whiteline you need to look for a sway bar from the Echo.
i did some research and found another compainy ST Suspension Techniques.
its a 11/16 (about 18mm) rear sway bar for about $176.
you can get it from Jeggs but its a 3 to 4 week ship time.
also the hochkens is 15/16 and its hollow (for the rear)
id like to get a ST "and" a Whiteline.
ive seen others that run 2 swaybars in the rear and they say it handles nice.
with the whiteline you need to look for a sway bar from the Echo.
i did some research and found another compainy ST Suspension Techniques.
its a 11/16 (about 18mm) rear sway bar for about $176.
you can get it from Jeggs but its a 3 to 4 week ship time.
also the hochkens is 15/16 and its hollow (for the rear)
id like to get a ST "and" a Whiteline.
ive seen others that run 2 swaybars in the rear and they say it handles nice.
03-16-2009, 04:01 PM
#103
So I bought a TRD Sway Bar on eBay for $100 and Wow, the difference is astounding. For one, it took me longer to jack up the ___ of the car and sit it on stands that to actually install the bar.
And the feel is great, especially with my DF210's. Whomever hasn't done it yet (it took me over 2 years to get this done) needs to do this mod asap!!!
___
And the feel is great, especially with my DF210's. Whomever hasn't done it yet (it took me over 2 years to get this done) needs to do this mod asap!!!
___
Last edited by MR_LUV; 07-12-2020 at 07:03 PM. Reason: Awarded 10 Yr Badge
05-06-2009, 11:19 PM
#104
Senior Member
Fail, INC
SL Member
Scinergy
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 956
Just installed the TRD on my box. I found if I removed the rear wheels, install was a snap. I spent more time prepping/jacking than I did installing and torqing. The handling of the box is 100% better. Corner handling is much smoother and the roll is almost completely gone. I have no other suspension mods on my car.
After reading some of the information posted here, I'm thinking it may be best for a front strut brace on my car.
After reading some of the information posted here, I'm thinking it may be best for a front strut brace on my car.
05-07-2009, 12:53 PM
#105
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,258
Originally Posted by spr0k3t
Just installed the TRD on my box. I found if I removed the rear wheels, install was a snap. I spent more time prepping/jacking than I did installing and torqing. The handling of the box is 100% better. Corner handling is much smoother and the roll is almost completely gone. I have no other suspension mods on my car.
After reading some of the information posted here, I'm thinking it may be best for a front strut brace on my car.
After reading some of the information posted here, I'm thinking it may be best for a front strut brace on my car.
09-28-2009, 12:31 PM
#107
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 12
Adjustable Sway bar solution...
Sorry if this has been touched on already.
I was driving back from Church yesterday, and an idea hit me.
I have the Hotchkis Rear and Front Sway Bar set on an 05 xA, and while it works great, I think I can make it (the front one) better. Ever notice how the end link connector is horizontal to the ground? And only has one hole? Kinda makes it hard to adjust.
Over the next month or so, I am going to find someone to weld up a sleeve for the ends that has a vertical steel plate with more holes, and also have a connector made to fit in the cup (might need to drill it out for a beefier bolt) on the lower A-Arm, with a matching vertical plate.
Voila! It's now adjustable!
_____
I was driving back from Church yesterday, and an idea hit me.
I have the Hotchkis Rear and Front Sway Bar set on an 05 xA, and while it works great, I think I can make it (the front one) better. Ever notice how the end link connector is horizontal to the ground? And only has one hole? Kinda makes it hard to adjust.
Over the next month or so, I am going to find someone to weld up a sleeve for the ends that has a vertical steel plate with more holes, and also have a connector made to fit in the cup (might need to drill it out for a beefier bolt) on the lower A-Arm, with a matching vertical plate.
Voila! It's now adjustable!
_____
Last edited by MR_LUV; 07-12-2020 at 07:06 PM. Reason: Awarded 10 Yr Badge
12-30-2009, 03:45 AM
#108
Member
SL Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 56
My Dream
I own a 2006 Scion tC with Spoiler, Ceramic brakes, Smoke front and rear lights with LED, Fog and driving light, Leather and heated seats, and new rain tires. Now I want it to corner better. I am not a member of a club because I cannot find one in the Seattle area so information is hard to come by. I was looking at a set of sway bars from AutoAnything. I don't want too big of a front bar because I don't want too much oversteer. I want it to corner like my 2006 Boxer, completely predictable or like my 1972 Corvette Z-30, which a ZL-1 with a small block. It is also completely predictable with power on. I don't think you can realistically spin a Boxer with the electronic suspension on. What does anyone think about sway bars on a Scion tC? I don't want so much lean and sway. Do I have to lower it? Do I have to change struts? I hope the sway bars will reduce lean and ad more controlled drift. Open for Comments, Stan
_____
_____
Last edited by MR_LUV; 07-12-2020 at 07:10 PM. Reason: Awarded 10 Yr Badge
12-30-2009, 04:54 AM
#109
Senior Member
Scikotics
SL Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 1,459
Wow hold on man...slow down here.
Take some more time to look around the forum for these questions. I know there are even answers on here from 06, where I asked the questions.
for a brief answer, Sways are Awesome. I had the TRD Rear, which is pretty much enough. Car is ____ near neutral in the corners, even pushing it HARD. I would definetly call it predictable.
I currently have the Hotckis sways, set soft front, medium rear. Currently I have a little much oversteer for my taste when pushing. but nothing beats being able to adjust sways to your taste, I just finished setting front to Hard and left rear on middle.
Granted these results are for the Auto tC, the manual is lighter on the front a tad and generally has slightly more oversteer.
Good luck though...
Take some more time to look around the forum for these questions. I know there are even answers on here from 06, where I asked the questions.
for a brief answer, Sways are Awesome. I had the TRD Rear, which is pretty much enough. Car is ____ near neutral in the corners, even pushing it HARD. I would definetly call it predictable.
I currently have the Hotckis sways, set soft front, medium rear. Currently I have a little much oversteer for my taste when pushing. but nothing beats being able to adjust sways to your taste, I just finished setting front to Hard and left rear on middle.
Granted these results are for the Auto tC, the manual is lighter on the front a tad and generally has slightly more oversteer.
Good luck though...
12-30-2009, 11:35 AM
#110
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 12
I autocross my 2005 xA, so I've learned a bit about suspension, pretty much all of which can be found in one form or another on this site.
That being said, the Stock sway bar is "enough". However, you can't beat tunability. Hotchkis all around for your tC will greatly improve the tunability of the tC's setup.
Also, a trick I learned from autocrossing is to air your rear tires more, like 10 lbs more, if you want some oversteer. The stiffer the rear, the more it will slide out.
You can also look into stiffer springs. The TRD springs, which I have on my TRD struts are about 10% stiffer than stock. You can get much stiffer springs elsewhere, which will also tune you suspension, depending on what you want.
I would recommend campaigning your car at a few autocross events and ask some of the more experienced people watch and see what's going on with your car. Another autocross trick is to fasten zipties to the tops of the shock
cylinders to see what your travel is, this can tell you a lot about how everything's working.
_____
That being said, the Stock sway bar is "enough". However, you can't beat tunability. Hotchkis all around for your tC will greatly improve the tunability of the tC's setup.
Also, a trick I learned from autocrossing is to air your rear tires more, like 10 lbs more, if you want some oversteer. The stiffer the rear, the more it will slide out.
You can also look into stiffer springs. The TRD springs, which I have on my TRD struts are about 10% stiffer than stock. You can get much stiffer springs elsewhere, which will also tune you suspension, depending on what you want.
I would recommend campaigning your car at a few autocross events and ask some of the more experienced people watch and see what's going on with your car. Another autocross trick is to fasten zipties to the tops of the shock
cylinders to see what your travel is, this can tell you a lot about how everything's working.
_____
Last edited by MR_LUV; 07-12-2020 at 07:11 PM. Reason: Awarded 10 Yr Badge
09-11-2010, 08:50 AM
#111
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SoCal-626
Posts: 549
I'm looking forward to the TRD or Progress rear sway bar, and just leaving the front stock and adding a strut bar.
Any good deals out there?
____
Any good deals out there?
____
Last edited by MR_LUV; 07-12-2020 at 07:13 PM. Reason: Awarded 10 Yr Badge
09-28-2010, 06:26 AM
#112
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Mo Val
Posts: 2,123
great thread, ive learned a little.
with the whiteline you need to look for a sway bar from the Echo.
i did some research and found another compainy ST Suspension Techniques.
its a 11/16 (about 18mm) rear sway bar for about $176.
you can get it from Jeggs but its a 3 to 4 week ship time.
also the hochkens is 15/16 and its hollow (for the rear)
id like to get a ST "and" a Whiteline.
ive seen others that run 2 swaybars in the rear and they say it handles nice.
with the whiteline you need to look for a sway bar from the Echo.
i did some research and found another compainy ST Suspension Techniques.
its a 11/16 (about 18mm) rear sway bar for about $176.
you can get it from Jeggs but its a 3 to 4 week ship time.
also the hochkens is 15/16 and its hollow (for the rear)
id like to get a ST "and" a Whiteline.
ive seen others that run 2 swaybars in the rear and they say it handles nice.
02-07-2012, 11:20 PM
#113
Member
SL Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 53
What if you have a Yakima rack with a basket case on it. That's allot of weight on top of the Box.
Will a Hotchkis front sway bar work better for that set up?
Autocrossing you don't do with big racks and passengers. Daily driving you do.
So, my question is: For daily driving with some extra weight added on the Box, would a Hotchkis sway bar work for your advantage when making a hard turn?
This is a great thread. Thought I would keep it alive.
In my xA I thought putting -3 camber shims made the car over steer.
-3 camber made it over steer allot. A lot of fun that is.
I don't know about the xB. haven't tried it yet.
_____
Will a Hotchkis front sway bar work better for that set up?
Autocrossing you don't do with big racks and passengers. Daily driving you do.
So, my question is: For daily driving with some extra weight added on the Box, would a Hotchkis sway bar work for your advantage when making a hard turn?
This is a great thread. Thought I would keep it alive.
In my xA I thought putting -3 camber shims made the car over steer.
-3 camber made it over steer allot. A lot of fun that is.
I don't know about the xB. haven't tried it yet.
_____
Last edited by MR_LUV; 07-12-2020 at 07:16 PM. Reason: Awarded 10 Yr Badge
05-31-2012, 07:01 PM
#115
It's my understanding that front anti-sway bars actaully contribute to understeer. They force you to back off on the speed in a turn before you are actually out of lateral grip. It makes the car "safer" for less experienced drivers, which is why most cars come with them, but they don't actually improve handling beyond a certain point.
I learned a lot of what I know from a VW/Audi/Porsche suspension expert up in MA (Dick Shine) and he doesn't include front sway bars in any of the custom suspension systems he built. He usually recommends leaving the stock bar, definitely NOT a thicker front bar. He suggests removing the front bar altogther in some cases for experienced drivers.
Even though he was mainly a VW guy, its relevant here:
The xB is a front engine, front wheel drive compact with Mac Struts in the front and a torsion beam rear suspension.... and so are every single VW Jetta, Golf and New Beetle on the road. ;)
Here's how he explains it:
"Volkswagens have between 65-70% of their weight over their front wheels which causes understeer. Larger front sway bars cause more understeer and unload the inside front wheel during hard cornering resulting in wheelspin. This is a major handicap, especially when autocrossing. Shine Racing suspensions are designed to minimize understeer and increase grip."
I think that the xB has a better weight distribution ratio than that, but, like any FWD, front engine car, the balance of the weight is over the front wheels with the engine, transaxle etc..
I learned a lot of what I know from a VW/Audi/Porsche suspension expert up in MA (Dick Shine) and he doesn't include front sway bars in any of the custom suspension systems he built. He usually recommends leaving the stock bar, definitely NOT a thicker front bar. He suggests removing the front bar altogther in some cases for experienced drivers.
Even though he was mainly a VW guy, its relevant here:
The xB is a front engine, front wheel drive compact with Mac Struts in the front and a torsion beam rear suspension.... and so are every single VW Jetta, Golf and New Beetle on the road. ;)
Here's how he explains it:
"Volkswagens have between 65-70% of their weight over their front wheels which causes understeer. Larger front sway bars cause more understeer and unload the inside front wheel during hard cornering resulting in wheelspin. This is a major handicap, especially when autocrossing. Shine Racing suspensions are designed to minimize understeer and increase grip."
I think that the xB has a better weight distribution ratio than that, but, like any FWD, front engine car, the balance of the weight is over the front wheels with the engine, transaxle etc..
03-17-2014, 03:57 PM
#118
Member
SL Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 56
Safety issue with sway bars?
For the daily xB driver is it safer (less chance of rollover and better steering ) to remove the sway bar on all 1st Generations?
____
____
Last edited by MR_LUV; 07-12-2020 at 07:35 PM. Reason: Awarded 5 Yr Badge
07-12-2020, 06:41 PM
#119
Junior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Lk Havasu Cty Az
Posts: 2
What Brand is Best Replacement on 2005 xB Swap bar links?
I bought Energy Suspension sway bar kit.. It was ____ totally way over size and centers bolt was so long it would only go in upside down. and it still hit the Drive axle.
Is the factor replacement the way to go... only one that looks correct.
Any suggestions... Thx Rz
_____
Is the factor replacement the way to go... only one that looks correct.
Any suggestions... Thx Rz
_____
Last edited by MR_LUV; 07-12-2020 at 07:38 PM.
07-18-2020, 12:48 PM
#120
Member
SL Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 25
I ran into this issue as well with the Energy Suspension end links. It's been a few years, so I can't recall how I modified these to work. I think I may have cut the bolt, but I can't be sure.
Here's a picture that should help. The suspension is fully extended and clears just barely. There is much more clearance while the suspension is compressed. Also, this is a Celica GT-S axle, which is slightly larger than the stock XA.
