bbstacker7072

About four months ago, my xB began having a hard time starting at 86,000 miles. At first, it occurred almost every time. I swapped out the c/opn and the EFI relays. That seemed to help, but later in the day it began again, but less frequently. Problem occurs engine/ambient temperature hot or cold. When I turn the key to start, the engine will always start although it may take up to seven or eight seconds. Then, if all is well, it will start after four or five revolutions..a big difference.
With no codes ever being displayed or saved, I was somewhat in the dark. I had a set of E3 spark plugs that I installed-no change. I replaced the fuel pressure regulator, followed by the fuel pump-no change. Just for grins, I insulated the metal component of the fuel line that runs next to the engine. I know that wouldn't have any affect on a cold engine, but like I said..it was for grins. Then, I changed the crank position sensor followed by the cam position sensor. Lastly, cleaned the MAF sensor with appropriate cleaner.
After all of this the problem persists almost unchanged, except it is a little less frequent. Also, fuel tank level makes no difference and I use Shell 87 octane as always. From the time the problem didn't exist until it reared it's ugly head nothing had changed, such as fuel, additives, etc. It also runs perfectly once it starts.

Any new ideas will be appreciated.

RCZDesigns

This is probably too simple, but have you had the battery & charging system checked out?

I would have to hear the box attempting to start to better judge a potential problem, but in my experiences if the battery is weak for whatever given reason, it will take a little longer to crank the car over.


Take it into sears or something and see if the alternator or battery is shot.

bB384

I'm almost certain its the damn battery, If the OP has the OEM battery I'm absolutely certain thats the problem. I suggest you pick up a good battery since I noticed that my xB likes go through batteries every 2.5 years. I personally am picking up an Optima red/yellow top soon.

bbstacker7072

I have an Optima red top and the engine turns over fine...same speed as when it starts correctly. Thanks though.

daneisthegreatest

iTrader: (1)

i had this problem when my box was brand new. i would go out there to start it and it would turn over a few times before it would actually start, and when it did start it was very low revving at first and then went to normal rpm at idle.

i took the box to toyota and they could not replicate the problem and that was it. in the 2.5 years i have owned the box and the 33,000 miles i have put on it, i have only experienced this problem a hand full of times.

Davestoaster

Wow, you sure have been chasing this problem!

Did you swap out the spark plug coils, as this sounds almost like some sort of intermittent electrical problem.

The reason I say that is, some years back, my buddy had a very similar problem with his car (non-Scion). We chased it just like you are. He replaced everything to no avail. Until one day someone said, give the ECU (engine control unit) a smack with your hand. He did, and the car started right up. We finally traced it down to one broken solder joint in the engine brain box.

Not saying that is your problem, but it might end up being something like that. Maybe even corrosion on the terminals of the EFI relay???

bbstacker7072

Thanks, Dave. Its really starting to get nasty now. I have pulled and checked all of the relays that might have the slightest connection to this problem. I've pulled and re-installed all of the connectors of the ecu,and I checked it's ground..all is well. Of the six times I started it today to run errands, it messed up three times. But I'm not giving up!
Thanks again for your input.
Bill

bbstacker7072

Well, I think I got it...knock on wood..ouch! I never, ever got a code and no other indications I even had a problem. I was going to order a used ECU from Ebay . Again, just for grins I pulled all four ECU plugs and re-inserted them. So far(two days) it fires right up.
I want to thank those who took the time to contact me and offer help. I hope you and yours have a great Labor Day.
Bill

Davestoaster

Good job!!!

At least you've found the area. Now you got to figure out if it was the connections, or the ECU itself.

There is a product called "DEOXIT" that improves the connectivity of connectors. Hard to find and expensive, but it might be cheaper than a new ECU. LPS1 will work on connectors also, if you are in a pinch.

Don't forget a tap or two on the ECU itself. Could be a loose internal solder joint or chip. Try to see if it is temperature dependent, because the cooler it gets outside, the tighter solder joints that are cracked become.

Good luck.

Superhatch

I've found an alternate solution to the same issue.

Well, not me, my mechanic. They diagnosed it as a failing fuel pump. We explained the issue as noted above, but also noted that it was harder to start in the winter, or if the car sat for longer than a day. They packed the pump area with ice and recreated the problem. Replaced fuel pump 1 month ago, have had 0 start-up issues since!

I'll note that prior to this I changed the battery and reset the ECU multiple times to no avail.

nmhuntr

That was exactly what I was going to suggest. Mine has 130k and I am getting a new pump installed tomorrow.

Birsan

Hi, I had my car Scion xb 2004 in parking for two days. Then early in the Morning on 28 Degrees Fahrenheit the starter have hard time to start the engine. On youtube, Scotty Kilmer, suggest that in modern cars with computer, needed the battery to have power. The power is needed for:
1. Fuel pump. To push fuel to engine.
2. Starter. To turn the engine.
3. Air sensor. To get the right amount of air/oxigen.
4. Oil pump to lift up the oil and lubricate the various engine interior movements parts.
5. Computer to calculate and enable the car to start the engine.
If the car start easy in temperature above 55 degrees, and not that easy in cold temperatures, most likely is the oil.
Scion needs a 5w-30w in the summer, and in winter 5w-20w.
Full synthetic oil is better because can suspend small particle and have detergents additives to clean the interior of the engine.
The oil filter must have a good construction to keep the slugs and small particle.
Some recommend to have at least 20 grams, and durable gasket.
Need to change the oil minimum twice a year. When refill, the car need to be on flat space.
This will make easy to see the level needed.
Other risk for not changing the oil, is the need to replace the VVT (Variable Valve Timing) solenoid.
This have a small oil filter. Easy to replace (about 7 minutes). This is located on the top of the Alternator. On the left side of the engine.
Scion xb 2004 looks like is made to perfection. I enjoy every moment sitting in the car, or driving.