healthynine

Actually, I do this for a living...not body repairs, frame checks. I'm not saying what Ted does for a living is incorrect, and it is a common repair, however, the end result is an altered unibody structure. So whether or not the repair is correct which I cannot say since I'm not a autobody repair person, what I can say is that it is unibody damage. Also, I agree that cutting the quarter is the easiest solution, I personally would avoid it since it does indicate unibody damage.

And hotbox05....you mention the a,b, and c pillars....just like the apron, quarter panels, or any other panel that is part of a unibody structure, it is indeed unibody damage.

bB2NER

^^^DUDE a quarter is a quarter. There is no way it's part of the frame. It may help give the body integrity because of the lack of a body off frame but it is still just a body panel. It's no big deal already. If it's welded on right it will be just as strong as ever if not more so. Give it a break and let this topic get back on topic.

healthynine

I agree that this should get back on topic, but it is part of the structure. Again if it is stronger, or not as strong, that's not the point. The quarter is part of the unibody structure unlike a bolt on panel(fender, hood, etc.)

lastlookcustoms

Just another post on SL with alot of keyboard jockeys....

Obviously if you do "frame checks" for a living, (whatever the hell that is) you would know that there is books upon books upon books of measurements and places to measure to make sure EVERY repair is within spec.

When you drill spot welds for a quarter, the outer quarter comes off. Its an OUTER panel, just like a door skin. The structure doesnt fall, twist or wrinkle when you remove this. The STRUCTURE (or frame, for you) is BEHIND this panel. Think of the 1/4 as more of a cover of the STRUCTURE. I have hung 1/4's on everything from 60's mustangs to Dodge Caravans.... They were just as good as before they needed them.....

jeems

Normally I wouldn't but the dealership where I live now actually has a collision center unlike the dealership that I actually bought the car from. What sucks is I just moved to a new city so I have NO idea of who to go to unlike my home town.

healthynine

I'm not saying it isn't a common repair or anything to that matter. What I am saying is that NAAA and other frame guidlines indicate that it is a modified unibody and therefore the structure has been compromised. If its weaker than before, the next time it is in an impact it will be more easily damaged. If stronger, other parts of the car will take more damage. The point is it will be different than originally engineered. And it does cover more of the structure, however every welded body piece on a unibody car is part of the unibody.

bB2NER

That's a big DUH. Why state the obvious and make a big deal out of it?

TerribleTed

Then we are basically in agreement discounting the symantics. You are also correct in stating that full restoration of the car to exactly its pre-loss structure is virtually impossible. In practice however, very adequate repairs can be performed by a good technician. Would the repair be stronger or weaker?? Yes, but a good technician can change a 1/4 panel with very little variation around the ideal pre-loss strength. I would not hesitate to put my kids in a car that I have 1/4 paneled.

Damage that requires replacement or significant repairs to unibody rails, post structures etc., is another matter however, as these more structural boxed areas lose significant strength if they have been deformed very far. For instance, in frontal crashes when deformation zones are slightly crumpled, the common practice for repair is to stretch the zone back into its original position by pulling with hydralics. This I am sure results in a significantly weaker structure. Welding and replacement of parts of these structures is particularly critical as well and likely beyond the skill of a many auto body technicains I would bet, (from being around and seeing what guys do), that less than 50% of technicians could perform a truely adequate rail replacement.

The key is you must find a GOOD technician which unfortunately is very hard to judge from the consumer's point of view.

The outer 1/4 panel in this case is damaged badly enough to warrent replacment. The reason I say that is because it appears to me (from what I can see in the photos)that the inner 1/4 panel/outer wheelhouse has sustained significant damage as well. These inner structural pieces generally provide more to the basis of the cars structure than the outer panel which is more cosmetic. The distortion in these pieces must be repaired in order for their structure to approach pre-loss strength. Access to both sides of this distorted metal to make a good repair will require removal of the outer 1/4 panel skin. These areas will not be strong if the original shapes are not reproduced in the steel.

TerribleTed

I fully agree that a dealer may not be the best place....BUT.... it might be!! Check out some places. Try to see finished work, tho nice looking finished work is no guarantee the job is good. Ask around. Get references and call them (of course these will speak highly of them most likely, if they speak badly of them I would not use them as it means they have issues and are also stupid to provide such reference). Check on guarantees. Check with the local Better business Bureau about repair shops you are considering. The big problem is that it is very hard to judge a book by its cover and turning the pages to really see repair quality in a body shop is difficult indeed, especially considering that most of you do not know what to look for. I have seen plenty of dangerous repairs in my time that the owners had no idea how badly their cars had been fixed.

You might try asking in your local auto body supply store. Tell them that you are looking for high quality collision repair shops in your area, they will usually know who does good work and hopefully they will share valid info rather just the name of their buddy up the road.

healthynine

It appears we're now on the same page. That being said, I would agree that of the types of repairs, a replaced quarter in my personal opinion would be the least of my concerns, a repaired crumple zone being the most. Also, you would probably be the better judge of if it actually should be cut based on the damage. The problem with finding a reputable shop though is that 95% of consumers don't know what to look for. The only things they typically can see is a poor quality paint job(junk in the paint, orange peel, overspray), and not the quality of the metal repair.

TerribleTed

I think we were always on the same page, but it can be hard to tell from forums posts sometimes.

What you say here regarding consumers is exactly the problem. This problem is exacerbated by the large number of disreputible or under skilled body shops and technicians. Indeed the quality of the finish can be an indication of good work but what really matters most is the quality of the repairs hidden by that paint. Is there proper corrosion protection? Are the welds in the right places and of the proper strength? Are there any dent puller holes left behind a filler repair? (will cause repair failure).

Shops that have been in business a long time that have good reputations can be a good bet. Shops in this category that have a local reputation of being more costly than most may be an even better bet, as their higher prices may indicate they are doing more precise and better work and charging for it (then again they might just be more expensive). To really truely judge the quality of work of a given shop would just about require observation over time by a person who knows what to look for. For the consumer looking for a repair shop all he can really do is gather as much data as possible, lean heavily on recommendations from trusted others where possible, make a semi informed decision, and then pray:/

A good automotive appraiser that specializes in pre loss condition valuations and damage evaluation may be useful. He should be able to suggest repairs necessary to return the car to preloss condition as well as sometimes see deficiencies in completed repairs. A preloss value and condition analysis by such an independant inspector may well be worth the cost. If the guy is on the level he may be able to refer to the best shops in the area as well.

daneisthegreatest

iTrader: (1)

healthynine--so are you saying that if an xB gets rust on the rear quarter that it will be frame damage...how would you repair the rust...you do know that there are sub frame beams behind the sheet metal (i can see that as being frame damage if you cut them but not the sheet metal)

13edge

Bingo. That xB of yours is definitely driveable, and probably still safer than half the cars on the road. Visit a couple shops and look at some of their finished work. Snap a few shots of some of the cars on their 'to do' list, if they'll let you, and then come back in a few days and see how the repairs went. No shop who's proud of their work should refuse that. If they let you snap a second set of pics, you can probably even find a body shop forum and ask for advice.

Doing that saved me a ton of money and grief when my old Mustang got wrecked. Narrowed it down between a private shop and a national chain, found out which techs at each place did the work I liked the most, and talked to each of them. In the end, the national chain won out, with the understanding that I would have to wait a couple weeks for the tech I requested to do the work. This guy was so good, he colormatched the yellow on the car, which had faded since new. It looked 100%. Granted, I kissed butt, so they may have done a better job for me. Showed up with donuts on day 2 and pizza on day 4 lol. But the car sold for good money, so it was worth it.

healthynine

It depends how bad the rust gets...and typically if you catch it quick enough its just sanding down all of the rust, bondo, and paint. Now it is possible for the rust to get that bad, but my guess is the car has bigger problems. Living in the midwest, there are some cars that have this problem, but not many. The biggest culprit are older body(mid 90s)sentras and altimas that I've personally seen. Now the quarter rust on older hondas is near the wheel well where the bumper mounts, not considered an area near the structure, but if you were to remove the panel as a fix...that's where the structure piece comes into question.

kebeeeen

dont think so

jeems

OK guys.....new question.
As stated my car was hit on Thanksgiving day. Now today, Tuesday, my Check Engine light has come on, as well as my VSC light, and the Trac Off light.
NOW WHAT'S THE DEAL!?

bB2NER

Hard to say for sure. Seems more like it was your toasters turn.
BTW, did you get an estimate or get it into a repair place yet?

TerribleTed

Check the fuses, seems to me there is a fuse that can cause most of this.

jeems

No I haven't yet. I took it to a few places on Friday but they were all closed due to the holiday. I've been at work every day since. STILL waiting on my police report so that I can file this on the other person's insurance.

rvpps2rocks

i didnt read everyone "story" / diaglogue but looks like new fender, 2 door skins and quarter panel and bledning paint