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TRD ECU flash - Will it work for Roots-type?

Old 06-17-2018, 06:30 PM
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Default TRD ECU flash - Will it work for Roots-type?

I'm looking at installing an Eaton M62 on my '14 Box. Will the ECU flash, intended for the TRD centrifugal Supercharger, work for this?
Seems that I'd also need larger injectors, but I don't know about the fuel pump. I'm hazarding guess at running 6-8lbs of boost. Enough to enjoy it reliably on stock internals.

I'm not new to boost or fuel management systems - I am running MegaSquirt & Spark on my Supercharged '93 Probe; I entirely replaced the stock ECU and wiring, and have experience with wide-band tuning.
I am hoping here though, to have a simpler and cheaper option than I did with my Probe. =)

Thanks!

Last edited by MR_LUV; 06-17-2018 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 06-18-2018, 12:37 AM
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If you stay in the 6-8 range then yes it'll work reasonably well, even on stock injectors. If you plan to go higher down the line then you would be better off talking to the guys at Orange Virus Tuning as they are the only company that has cracked the Toyota ECU and they can tune for your specific mods.

Other concern would be where you plan to put it. There is little room up front for it, most likely the battery would need to be relocated and the nose cone and part of the lobes would have to run directly over the headers. There has been one install of a M45 in this position but I'm not sure how completed it ever got.

The other option would be to do what I'm planning with mine and mount it to the back side of the engine using the idler pulley location that is in place of where the power steering pump would be if we didn't have electric power steering. This of course has it's own issues, the first being that you would have to fabricate a completely new intake manifold. This is the point I've stopped at as I haven't had the time to mock one up yet.

On either of these options you will also have to have a custom pulley made as the 2AZ-FE engine uses a 7 rib belt. Smoothflow pulleys can make one if you get to that point, they made mine.

On a side note, nice other car. I use to run a 93 Mazda MX-6 and was a member of SCPOC and Probetalk for years.
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Old 06-18-2018, 01:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Greg S View Post
If you stay in the 6-8 range then yes it'll work reasonably well, even on stock injectors. If you plan to go higher down the line then you would be better off talking to the guys at Orange Virus Tuning as they are the only company that has cracked the Toyota ECU and they can tune for your specific mods.

Other concern would be where you plan to put it. There is little room up front for it, most likely the battery would need to be relocated and the nose cone and part of the lobes would have to run directly over the headers. There has been one install of a M45 in this position but I'm not sure how completed it ever got.

The other option would be to do what I'm planning with mine and mount it to the back side of the engine using the idler pulley location that is in place of where the power steering pump would be if we didn't have electric power steering. This of course has it's own issues, the first being that you would have to fabricate a completely new intake manifold. This is the point I've stopped at as I haven't had the time to mock one up yet.

On either of these options you will also have to have a custom pulley made as the 2AZ-FE engine uses a 7 rib belt. Smoothflow pulleys can make one if you get to that point, they made mine.

On a side note, nice other car. I use to run a 93 Mazda MX-6 and was a member of SCPOC and Probetalk for years.
Thanks for the KL love! =)


My plan is to replace the IM entirely, and build one that I can mount the blower directly to - this way it'll sit behind the head, and I can keep my K&N CAI and it'll look otherwise stock. I am considering an air-to-water setup also, inside the plenum. My Probe has a FMIC, and Air-to-water seems to be a better option for cooler temps. I loose a couple lbs of boost due the IC and piping in my Probe, as the roots-type works to compress everything between the helixes and the throttle plate / or valves (whichever is first), and I'd like this to be more efficient than that one.

In the Probe, the blower is mounted to where the AC compressor was - so it's in front and can receive some ambient / turbulent air to help cool it down a bit, where-as behind the head it'll soak and retain more heat.. hence the air-to-water thought.

How much did your pulley set you back? I'd like to retain the clutch on my Eaton M62, but that might not be feasible if I have to convert it.


Thanks for the info! =)
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Old 06-18-2018, 06:31 PM
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That's almost the exact setup I've designed. lol

From talking to the techs at Bell Intercoolers they recommended not running any intercooler at the 6-8 lbs level. For mine they set me up with a 2" thick core for right over the S/C output but I'm also planning on 13-15 lbs of boost.

I'm not sure how much the pulley cost as I had it made well over a year ago but I don't remember it being too expensive. Shipping the supercharger out to him and back was somewhat pricey though. I'm not sure if there is enough room for a clutched M62 back there, I think they should be though. I'm building mine around an MP62 out of a Nissan Pathfinder with the vacuum bypass.

If you haven't started looking for parts to build the intake I'll save you a bit of time. Ross Machine Racing is the only place I found that makes an intake flange for the engine, Ross Machine Racing - Scion Tc 2AZ-FE Intake Flange Plate

He's a link to Smoothflow's website as well, for the pulley work, Smoothflow Pulleys
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Old 06-19-2018, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Greg S View Post
That's almost the exact setup I've designed. lol

From talking to the techs at Bell Intercoolers they recommended not running any intercooler at the 6-8 lbs level. For mine they set me up with a 2" thick core for right over the S/C output but I'm also planning on 13-15 lbs of boost.

I'm not sure how much the pulley cost as I had it made well over a year ago but I don't remember it being too expensive. Shipping the supercharger out to him and back was somewhat pricey though. I'm not sure if there is enough room for a clutched M62 back there, I think they should be though. I'm building mine around an MP62 out of a Nissan Pathfinder with the vacuum bypass.

If you haven't started looking for parts to build the intake I'll save you a bit of time. Ross Machine Racing is the only place I found that makes an intake flange for the engine, Ross Machine Racing - Scion Tc 2AZ-FE Intake Flange Plate

He's a link to Smoothflow's website as well, for the pulley work, Smoothflow Pulleys
Great minds think alike, eh?

An Eaton M62 from a GTP might also be good, as it has a length of a snout that should pull the bulk of the body away from the pulleys. Also, those are much more widely available and less expensive.. although I have already an M45 on hand.

So 6-8lbs, ya don't think that charge cooling will be worth it, eh? Adding a half-atmosphere will heat it up a bit.. but not nearly as badly as a turbo at that same pressure. I thought about that as well, but then go back to thinking that I want to obtain the best thermal efficiency that I can; disregarding a heat-exchanger will really simplify the build.


I _could_ build-out the plenum in advance, so that I can later drop in a heat exchanger, if I spend the time and money to build out both the engine and transaxle to be able to best utilize it. Perhaps just make it deep enough, and don't bother with drilling / tapping any extra fittings or mounting points into it just yet.

I'll probably fabricate the IM outta aluminum, as I'm setup to do that right now since I don't have a proper welding setup. I'll fabricate the flanges (IM, Blower discharge, and blower intake), runners, plenum, etc. All at once. If I went with the steel route and were looking to save time, then ya, the resource you provided would be a head-ache and time saver, for sure. =)




So, if I just went for the quick-and-dirty..

I would be safe with TRD ECU tune, stock injectors (?), and mounting up the blower up without concern for after cooling / heat exchanger? Seems that the TRD setup has upgraded injectors though, eh?


Thanks again for your insight,
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Old 06-19-2018, 06:31 PM
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Upgrading the injectors wouldn't be a bad idea, and I think you're right that the TRD kit came with them. So yeah, it would be best to upgrade them. I never really paid enough attention to that kit after they started having issues with it and since I was going for higher boost levels I went straight for 750 cc injectors and built a spare block with forged internals.

I'm going the all aluminum route with the intake as well, but I'll be limiting myself to designing and cutting out all the pieces. From there it'll get farmed out to a friend for TIG welding as my MIG welding ability is poor at best and my TIG is non-existent.

Let me know if you need any mock up photos to see how much space there is. I've got a collection of shots of the S/C held up in place with my spare block and also with a motor out of a Camry. I also have pictures of the clearances between the half shaft and the stock intake manifold on the same Camry from the side and underneath.
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Old 06-19-2018, 06:35 PM
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Oh, just found the email communication with Bell and the no intercooler design was up to 6 psi with the stock compression. I forgot that since I went with built internals I dropped my compression down to 8.5:1 from the stock 9:1.

Here's the recommendations they gave me;

up to 6 psig Boost-Pressure, considering the 9:1 Compression-Ratio, you most likely (depending on the max. ambient Temperatures) will not need an Intercooler

- beyond 6.0” psig you will need an Intercooler

- the Core - Area 4.5” x 6.0” is sufficient

- the Core-Thickness of 1.25” is (really) not sufficient, at least not for an Intercooler with an acceptable Efficiency; 2.25”, is (certainly) recommended; Core-Size A= 2.25”, B= 4.5”, C= 6.0”

- the Coolant-Flow-Rate has to be not less than 6 GPM

- the approx. (overall) size for an acceptable front-mount Heat-Exchanger is 1.75” x 8.0”x 21.0”

- no large Water-Tank is required


So, it looks like you might be doing the intercooler anyway.
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