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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/30/au...ef=automobiles

 

yea scion did get away from their first intentions with these 2 cars. the xd with the price and the xb with the size. they should have replaced the xb with the xb2 design that would have been about the same size with more power. the xd is the same size as the xa so they just jacked the price up for the engine with no room to grow and stability.

they need to find the way back with the quickness even if it involves the publics vote between 3-4 exterior design ideas not just options.

a new tc design around different power application options wouldn't hurt either. meaning build the turbo or supercharger INTO the car's design, not away from it after completion

 

The XB2 a better car? ....hmm, depends what you want I guess. My opinion is Scion needs to get back to the "funkiness" of their original designs. Maybe they are doing that with the Hako, we will see....

 

The XB2 can't even be compared, it costs more.

 

no, the xB2 cant be compared to the xb because its a different car.

i DO think scion went at an odd angle with these new models, but as ive heard before, theyre not trying to please the orignal owners. they bought scions. they want NEW people. i think they might switch it up every 3 years...

 

Wow great wright up lots of good points too. I do feel the same way about the xB2 but I also like it and feel someday I may drive one. So is SCION going down a bad road? How many new xB owners on here are 50yrs old, lots. It took almost 3-4yrs for them to find out what a Scion was and now everyone I see round my area is in that age range, kinda sad. This is in no offence to 30+yr olds but its not the market Scion is made for, or is it? On another note gongrats to all Scion owners, these are all great models in my mind, and cant be beat maybe thats the problem.

 

The only Scion that has captured the youth market is the tC. The xB has always had an older demographic which continued to move upward with the xB2. A 2005 write-up by Forbes indicates that the average age for the original xB was 35, and since then it has graduall edged up as the vehicles became more visible. Right now, it stands at 39. You have to understand, the average age for Toyota ownership is 54.

Price is an issue, so it's not any wonder that the youth market is being turned off by the rising prices of all Scion models. No doubt, everyone wants a cheap car, but most of us want a bunch of stuff that we'd consider standard equipment, including air-conditioning, power windows and mirrors, 4-wheel disk brakes (well except the xD). TPMS costs money too, and that along with side-impact beams and an assortment of airbags are required by the NHTSA. It also matters that we have a strange foreign policy that has deflated the value of the dollar. That alone makes up most of the problems of vehicle costs from Japan-originated models.

Maybe you don't want to get another Scion, now that you've seen where the brand is headed. There's always a Kia or a Hyundai that's a lot cheaper, right? Or maybe a Chevy? If you wonder why so many people in their mid-30s (and up) buy Toyotas, Scions and Lexus, it's because they know the build quality. That xB2 is very close to the styling of the t2b, down to the plastic grille at the front and the curved corners. If anyone was complaining about the size of the xB2, why didn't they complain about the t2b? You have to remember as well, that Scion asked people to critique the original xB, and what they wanted in the next generation xB. These people didn't ask for the same engine, they asked for more power, and they wanted it to be larger. Honestly, I would have bought the bB if they had the 158 HP engine in it, but a larger xB is still smaller than most vehicles, period.

I think the real problem might be that Scion doesn't understand Millennials, and how quickly fickle their tastes are. When time is measured by the seconds it took you to text your friend, it's not an easy mission for Scion to singularly target the Millennials. That's just the way they are, nothing you can do to change them.

I say the only way to appeal to the Millennials and the Scion enthusiast is to do one-off models. No more 2nd generation models. Every 5 years, a new model from a blank canvas (or import a JDM), with as many as 5 different vehicle types to appeal to a wide range of tastes (in terms of use). If they revolved the introductions so that a new model was revealed every year, Scion would be a brand where change was everything.

Sorry for the long post.

 

Well... you can compare them, you just have to keep in mind they're very differnt vehicles.

Heres a comparison between a Smart Fortwo, and a Dodge Ram, if you can compare those you can compare the first and second gen xB. LOL
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/04/30/t...mins-vs-smart/

 

Most people thinking about buying a Dodge Ram would never consider a Smart Car!
And that has nothing to do with the Smart being a terrible car, you can build a sturdier car out of Lego's.

 

hmm...I really think that some of the views are a little limited. But I do agree with 808-213-503.

I think the xD has great potential. And, when compared to the price, is still cheaper than most cars out there, with the same features. A Yaris sedan MSRP's at $15,725 with ABS and Mats, and no Side Airbags. An xD MSRP's for $16,125 with Mats & Side Airbags!!! Not to mention a bigger Engine with similar economy.

People felt that the xA was too...bland, kinda the weaker in terms of recognition between the 3. Now the xD is getting the same kinda punches. Can't people see that history is repeating itself? First people were complaining: no cruise, no side airbags, no keyless entry, no power, no VSC, not aggressive enough. Now they get what they asked for, now its too expensive?!?!?!

The new xB IS based on the same platform and model design as the t2B. People who said they should have based the new xB off that design should realize that Scion did. The just didn't go as wild as they'd like. But, after all, one poster said it...it would have cost too much. But, as people are criticizing this current line up, it's still the same kind of criticism as what the 1st gen xA & xB got. Some people are going to like them and other's won't!

I really don't think that the rising prices of Scion is turning away younger buyers. No matter what, the prices are very similar and in line with what was started from the beginning.

Where Scion is heading? Come on people, that all depends on us and what we voice. Look at the HAKO?!?! It is a very unique take on an old classic. I think the car looks great from the Shoulder line down, myself. I'm still not sold on the upright window. But, again the design is waaaay out there and pushing the envelope.

Again, I see lots of people with limited view.s of what should be Scion.

 

Your missing what i was saying... You can compare any two cars, that doesnt mean that they are the same car, or even marketed to the same people.

 

problem is we started out with cheap grocery getters. but we made them what they are now. we showed off how hip they can be that everyone wanted to feel hip too. prolly why I see 60 something woment driving Celica's. grandma drives a little sports car? but I agree with a few people here that Scion needs to bring over the quirky car again from Japan. I think it's called the bB. Even the Rumion isn't that popular in Japan. in fact, it's more popular stateside. aside from the webphoto's, the new Ist is almost non existant. So the apparent problem may not lay with Scion but something higher.

 

"These new cars, on the other hand, were designed with the American market in mind"

Did they forget about the Ist and Rumion counterparts in Japan?

 

I know you can compare anything, just not exactly fairly.
XB2 has more features because you have to pay for more features. I get it though!

 

I am impressed at your ability to find the one paragraph that makes the article seem like it's in favor of the new Scions.

Somehow I knew the next paragraph would start with "...and yet..."

For the click-lazy, the next few paragraphs:

The article has some pretty nice digs on the xD, too. It's really less of a review of the cars themselves (though it does touch on Scion's recent interchangeability with Toyotas) and more about the brand's stray from its original intent: to attract young people by shunning what is 'mainstream.'

I do hope that Scion is listening.

 

Having read the whole article, "eep".

So, this basic talk has gone on for four pages in the other front page thread 'scion doubling lineup'. I know I'm part of the negativity, but I don't think I expressed it as well as this article has.

One big issue is now the value of the dollar in the face of other currencies. It could just be that Toyota can't price them any better than they are, since the dollar is now weak against the yen, euro and canadian dollar (where the matrix is produced).

Who knows. One can only hope that they knock the next few iterations out of the park and do something with the xB2 and xD.

 

As long as Toyota sells the Corolla, Matrix, and cheap azz Yaris (starts at $11k), Scion will really have to go to great lengths to seperate themselves as a different brand. Clearly, the 2nd gen Scions are no better, no cheaper, and no "cooler" than what Toyota is offering.

Maybe the Hako is a step in the right direction. I HATE it and think it's stupid looking and not functional at all... But show me a Toyota to compare it to. There are none.

Scion needs to take bigger risks. They got greedy in the 2nd round and became the mass market Toyotas they were supposed to deviate from.

-THE DON

 

the smart cars are pretty sweet actually. theres a video of a smart car v. ferrari f430 i think. its a legit video too.

 

and this is why they failed...

 

Scion tC

Scion xB

I didn't want to post the xD sales; let's just say that the model has a lot of room to grow as it gains visibility in the marketplace. You can draw your own conclusion about the xB2 versus tC in the US marketplace. As you can see, the tC suffered a much steeper decline in sales than the xB2.




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