what kinda of power can i expect from the two? what kinda mpg would i get roughly?

A supercharger is more reliable. It is mechanical and gives you power quicker. The turbo spools up and gives more power but later. Turbos are more finicky.........

that seems to be true on many cars, except for ours as I found out

I had a blower for about 40,000 miles, then I couldnt handle the problems anymore so i took it off one night and sold it. 2 months later I got a turbo and It is way more worry free and consistant with performance.

A supercharger is more reliable. It is mechanical and gives you power quicker. The turbo spools up and gives more power but later. Turbos are more finicky.........
not really the whole truth anymore.

both if done right are very reliable.
the turbo if done right (properly sized) will give boost just as soon as a supercharger.

the turbo has one advantage...you do not need to be in boost all the time. this saves some wear and tear. it saves fuel too.

either setup should get you about 135-140 to the ground.

as for MPG...my supercharger gets me 23-ish mpg.
if i take the belt off i can get 25-26mpg

my friends turbo xb, gets 27ish.

A supercharger is more reliable. It is mechanical and gives you power quicker. The turbo spools up and gives more power but later. Turbos are more finicky.........
not really the whole truth anymore.

both if done right are very reliable.
the turbo if done right (properly sized) will give boost just as soon as a supercharger.

the turbo has one advantage...you do not need to be in boost all the time. this saves some wear and tear. it saves fuel too.

either setup should get you about 135-140 to the ground.

as for MPG...my supercharger gets me 23-ish mpg.
if i take the belt off i can get 25-26mpg

my friends turbo xb, gets 27ish.If the drive belts on our cars were a 6pk or wider, and the crank pulley keyed to the crankshaft instead of an 1/8th inch roll pin than I would be happy with the supercharger.
The fact is that the 1.5 in our cars is really design-flawed for supercharger application. On the otherhand... Toyota has a Turbo Vitz from factory in Japan( same motor) , and TRD has a Turbo kit in Japan, that alone should shine light on your decision.

and dont expect 130-140 to the ground, that's bs.
112-120 is realistic on a good dyno without jacked-up calibration. i am at 116who and 127ft pounds of torque @4.5 psi with my turbo.
last year I was at 109whp and 112 ft lbs with my blower. (these are with out N02) with a 35hp shot I was seeing 139whp along with the blower on a real dyno. That same setup read 164whp on a crappy portible dyno-jet.

those portables are way out of wack...

i've got mine to show 143whp on three different brands of dynos. (i used to install the dyno's for NY & NJ inspection places)
esp, spx, mustang...all showed the same range of numbers.
that was at 8psi.
now i've got it pushing 12psi.

no bs...real setups.

the neverending question..., sc or tc.... it really comes down to what you want out of the kit...

those portables are way out of wack...

i've got mine to show 143whp on three different brands of dynos. (i used to install the dyno's for NY & NJ inspection places)
esp, spx, mustang...all showed the same range of numbers.
that was at 8psi.
now i've got it pushing 12psi.

no bs...real setups.i want to see that 143whp next to me at the track. u should run mid 14's with that. Race me at the next VIP 1/8th mile shootout.

Which would be better if you are running NOS also?

Also what other upgrades to your motor from stock do you have to push 12 PSI?

nitrous in addition to boost on these motors, without being built, sc or tc, is asking for trouble. im running a GReddy SC on my 5spd and i love it, i havent had any problems with it at all. it was bolt on a go, havent had to fix anything under the hood yet, in fact, i havent been home the last couple months, im deployed right now, but my wife has been driving it, she hasnt complained yet, and she is a picky person. the GReddy SC on a 5 spd in addition to other basic bolt ons will get your 0-60 down to the high 6's. enough to mess with most "ricers" you might encounter... if you are wanting to push 12PSI, your gonna need rods and pistons...

Also what other upgrades to your motor from stock do you have to push 12 PSI?
internals, nothing.

the only other mods to make this safe was injectors, and a fuel rail. (my kit came with a new fuel pump..)

the rods from stock are strong forged type, so no need to touch them until you get close to 200hp.

i've been runnig 12psi for 3 year now...on a bone stock motor.
you need to do nothing to make this work and work well.
if you sit there and say 'you are asking for trouble if you do...' tell me who else has had any problems from the boost.

oh, thats right, you can't... you just have been told that and you trusted those who said it.

^^^^ dangggg

Seriously though, its Daves fault that i will be running boost in the spring of next year. I finally got to ride and drive the car and it handles just fine.

I have an automatic, so im leaning more towards the Greddy Turbo set up. Having an auto means that i wont have to wait as long for the turbo to spool up and get me to that sweet spot.

Now if someone can point me to the nearest and least expensive place to purchase the Greddy .. ill be all good.

'tell me who else has had any problems from the boost.

oh, thats right, you can't... you just have been told that and you trusted those who said it.' i never make assumtions, i have seen teh video of the blitz sc on the box running down the track with nitrous, he left his motor all over the surface of the track.

also, your running 12psi and still not close to 200hp? how far out of the efficiency range are you running your turbo?

^^^^ dangggg

Seriously though, its Daves fault that i will be running boost in the spring of next year. I finally got to ride and drive the car and it handles just fine.

I have an automatic, so im leaning more towards the Greddy Turbo set up. Having an auto means that i wont have to wait as long for the turbo to spool up and get me to that sweet spot.

Now if someone can point me to the nearest and least expensive place to purchase the Greddy .. ill be all good.Ptuning.com

'tell me who else has had any problems from the boost.

oh, thats right, you can't... you just have been told that and you trusted those who said it.' i never make assumtions, i have seen teh video of the blitz sc on the box running down the track with nitrous, he left his motor all over the surface of the track.

well you only showed one idiot.
the boost was fine, it was when he added nitrous to it that casuses problems.

seriously, find a better example than someone who was racing, things happen at the track because of egos...turning up boost a lil more...pushing more n2o...dropping the clutch, revs to high...yada yada yada..

and i mean stock motors blow all the time too...
http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=128573&highlight=blown+motor+hole

there was a guy in VA i believe that had a rod come throught the block while crusing onnthe highway...he then used a forklift to drop in a used motor from an echo...

then there is a fellow from PA that was driving to work when he had a rod snap...he had nothing done to the motor..other than a dealer installed intake... his sn is eXciteBox

i just showed three time more examples than you did...and they were all stock commuter cars...by your logic, your motor should be blowing itself up reall soon as it is over due....



come to me with real proof of these motors not being able to handle good amounts of boost.

(oh...side story here..i had a chevy 350, the worlds most tried and true motor, millions of them around and a well proven motor. it blew up while idleing on the dealers lot. has 0.7 miles on it...so there is not one thing you could say about a perticul;ar motor being weak from my experience the 350 is a weak, bad motor)


and as me not hitting 200hp...so what.
i've got heavy 18's, added drivetrain mass, and more show than go right now.

if you know enough about how the calculation of hp and torque are done, reaching 12psi at redline will not make you 200.

know what the power graph is, understand how a SC works, understand the ecu...then tell me exactly what i should be making at the motor, now do drivetrain loss and inertia problems and measuring techniques .
i tell you i am making 7% less than what i calculated i should be making...(and i know where to go to get that number to be less)

how inefficient is your set up???

blown_xa Posted: 6/1/07 11:53AM Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I had a blower for about 40,000 miles, then I couldnt handle the problems anymore so i took it off one night and sold it. 2 months later I got a turbo and It is way more worry free and consistant with performance.



then I couldnt handle the problems
what kind of problems?????
and can you tell me your mods to 14.0?????
thanks!

before you call me an idiot, take a look at yourself, you gave three examples of why he should be worried about running boost and nitrous. what the heck is your problem anyways, i asked how far out of the efficiency range you were running your turbo, i thought you were running a turbo set up because of the 12 psi, i didnt know you did a pulley swap on the blower. geeze, you make yourself come off as a real ****, as far as what you said about the boost being fine, he had problems when he added nitrous, thats what started this whole argument, i told him to be wary of running boost and nitrous on a stock 1NZ, you called BS and said he would be fine, then your contradict yourself and say that it does cause a problem. telling anyone they will be fine running 12psi on a stock motor is just mean. you might have luck running 12psi of incredibly hot air on your blower, but what do you think is going to happen when he tries to run 12psi of intercooled air off of a turbo, it might hold up for a couple runs, but anyone who is running that kind of a setup on their car isnt babying it when they drive it. Im not going to argue with you that yes, you might get lucky and your 12psi is so inefficient that it isnt producing enough power to cause inter problems, but dont tell him that he will be okay running a properly set up 12psi... anyways, on a side note, im running the GReddy SC, which one are you running? if it is the GReddy what pulley did you swap? the alternator or the blower? what size did you make the pulley? i am curious for possible future mods, thanks.

before you call me an idiot, take a look at yourself, you gave three examples of why he should be worried about running boost and nitrous. what the heck is your problem anyways, i asked how far out of the efficiency range you were running your turbo, i thought you were running a turbo set up because of the 12 psi, i didnt know you did a pulley swap on the blower. geeze, you make yourself come off as a real ****, as far as what you said about the boost being fine, he had problems when he added nitrous, thats what started this whole argument, i told him to be wary of running boost and nitrous on a stock 1NZ, you called BS and said he would be fine, then your contradict yourself and say that it does cause a problem. telling anyone they will be fine running 12psi on a stock motor is just mean. you might have luck running 12psi of incredibly hot air on your blower, but what do you think is going to happen when he tries to run 12psi of intercooled air off of a turbo, it might hold up for a couple runs, but anyone who is running that kind of a setup on their car isnt babying it when they drive it. Im not going to argue with you that yes, you might get lucky and your 12psi is so inefficient that it isnt producing enough power to cause inter problems, but dont tell him that he will be okay running a properly set up 12psi... anyways, on a side note, im running the GReddy SC, which one are you running? if it is the GReddy what pulley did you swap? the alternator or the blower? what size did you make the pulley? i am curious for possible future mods, thanks.

i never callled you an idiot...i said you only showed one idiot. i have seen teh video of the blitz sc on the box running down the track with nitrous, he left his motor all over the surface of the track. he was the idiot.

and again you assume things...i do have a supercharger, but have never touched the pulley.

my examples are just this...you never know. you might have a bullet proof motor, or you got one of them friday afternoon motors. but don't just make a general statement of 'it can't take it'...there are too many of us boosted folks that never had a problem.

my motor sees 12psi everyday...i run it hard stoplight to stoplight, and on every on ramp i can find.

i do not have the greddy, but i would change the alt one if i did it.

i am not trying to sound like a D$%K, i just know it can be done and done safely.
(as you should know with your boosted experience)

this is what my setup looks(ed) like...
http://www.scionlife.com/features/05/07/scion4.jpg

had a little more cosmetic work done in there

woot that the sc im gettin when i have the money lol

woot that the sc im gettin when i have the money lolthey dont make it anymore

'tell me who else has had any problems from the boost.

oh, thats right, you can't... you just have been told that and you trusted those who said it.' i never make assumtions, i have seen teh video of the blitz sc on the box running down the track with nitrous, he left his motor all over the surface of the track.you think you know what you are talking about, but you have to know all the facts.
Don't back yourself up with "hear-say" information, because it can make you look bad if you don't know all the info.
I am good friends and work with the "idiot" you are talking about. I ran over a year with that same set-up, Blitz charger and 35hp shot, no problems, never blew a motor with that set-up. Read 10psi, with nitrous. The box you are talking about hardly ever races, it is a show car, 2nd in the country for NCCA points actually. He uses a boat-load of engine dressing on his hoses around his motor, gets on the belt, his belt has always slipped, never seen full boost.
The night before that race I put a new belt on (sticky belt) and cleaned the silicone off the pullies. That car was faster than ever before, it held boost and read 12.5 afr all across, but the timing was probably advanced because the computer was used to the boost drop-off it's whole life. The next day (at the track) nitrous was intoduced and boom. It amazed me because that was only his 1st pass with that revised set-up, and i raced for over a year with no problems. Point being if the computer had time to self-calibrate that wouldnt have been the result. Driving the car a full week before (with new belt) would have re-set the parameters on the ecu and it would not have detonated.
So in a nut-shell, it was a tuning failure, not the blocks failure. Even if that motor was built, it still would have blown up. My closest competitor (Bfurches) has run 12psi, he has a stock block. i have run 10psi with nitrous on my sc set-up, never a problem.
I have blown my motor with just nitrous, and too much boost(15psi), but both were because of detonation, not failure of the rods or any other component. Even if i had a built motor it would have blown.

Nitrous is fine in conjunction with boost, as long as it is tuned properly, and that is no assumtion, it is fact.

sorry to offend anyone, i always side with caution. if you are looking for boosted performance out of a motor, NO2 or not, it is just smart/safe to build the motor, even if that motor is a SR20 or a L67, both strong motors built for boost. i just hate reading responses where people tell someone they will be fine and shouldnt worry, anytime you add boost you should worry, and pay close attention... anyways, that info you put out about the breaking points you experienced, good to know, i plan on doing a build when i get home in a couple months, i was looking to drop the CR to 8.5 and twin charge to hit the 1BAR mark, prolly the GTS tranny... with your experience testing the limits of this motor stock, how much more boost do you think i can add with the new rods and pistons?... i know there are better ways to spend less money and make a faster car, but i decided i wanted to do something unique...

what, is it really outa production? how lame, guess ill go wit the greddy turbo then, owel

^^^^ dangggg

Seriously though, its Daves fault that i will be running boost in the spring of next year. I finally got to ride and drive the car and it handles just fine.

I have an automatic, so im leaning more towards the Greddy Turbo set up. Having an auto means that i wont have to wait as long for the turbo to spool up and get me to that sweet spot.

Now if someone can point me to the nearest and least expensive place to purchase the Greddy .. ill be all good.


http://www.strippermotorsports.com/scxbgrbotuki.html

woot that the sc im gettin when i have the money lolthey dont make it anymore


NO!!!!!!!! there goes my sleeper project.........Greddy here i come....sry Todd......its a money thing.......meaning its what money i can free up faster :P

woot that the sc im gettin when i have the money lolthey dont make it anymore


NO!!!!!!!! there goes my sleeper project.........Greddy here i come....sry Todd......its a money thing.......meaning its what money i can free up faster :P
they don't make it anymore, but there are several still in stock.

you will have to order it from japan.

Sorry to thread jack a bit, but are you using an upgraded fuel delivery system Blown_xA? I'd like to upgrade but am unsure of injector size needed or if a new fuel pump would be required. Right now I'm leaning towards the Celica GT injectors, 310cc I believe. I'm running the Greddy S/C.

woot that the sc im gettin when i have the money lolthey dont make it anymore


NO!!!!!!!! there goes my sleeper project.........Greddy here i come....sry Todd......its a money thing.......meaning its what money i can free up faster :P
they don't make it anymore, but there are several still in stock.

you will have to order it from japan.

Whoot Whoot i guess ill keep saving then.........

better hurry...

better hurry...

ill try to.....prolly also end up selling my wheels too....

ill just go wit the greddy turbo then. wont have to worry about smog either, so hello all the little goodies

better hurry...

I am sorry, I don't think I ever saw it addressed what SC you are running just that its not made anymore. Which one is it?

If you like instant throttle response, stick with a supercharger. If you don't mind lag and more power up top, go with a turbo.

You really cant go wrong with either one. IF you have a fully programmable ECU, with a turbo you could get better MPG.

well, after watching a neat special on speed channel with gale banks, i am pretty set on turbos. they are great.

also, as for running 12 psi and not making 200 hp, well, to quote gail banks, for every psi of boost you add to an engine, you get about 7% more power, so 12 times 7 equals 84, xa's and xb's make like what, 108 hp at the crank, so 108 times 1.84 equals 198 hp. so it sounds like you would need another pound to break 200 wouldn't you?

better hurry...

I am sorry, I don't think I ever saw it addressed what SC you are running just that its not made anymore. Which one is it?

its the power enterprises sc......i want it cuzz supposedly it is supper quite and it would b a great sleeper project IMHO well for my box anyways :P

better hurry...

I am sorry, I don't think I ever saw it addressed what SC you are running just that its not made anymore. Which one is it?

its the power enterprises sc......i want it cuzz supposedly it is supper quite and it would b a great sleeper project IMHO well for my box anyways :P

Thanks for the response. How much do they run?

better hurry...

I am sorry, I don't think I ever saw it addressed what SC you are running just that its not made anymore. Which one is it?

its the power enterprises sc......i want it cuzz supposedly it is supper quite and it would b a great sleeper project IMHO well for my box anyways :P

Thanks for the response. How much do they run?

3K plus.......prolly as much as Turbotoyotas Turbo Kit

If you like instant throttle response, stick with a supercharger. If you don't mind lag and more power up top, go with a turbo.

You really cant go wrong with either one. IF you have a fully programmable ECU, with a turbo you could get better MPG.

bzzzztt...wrong.

superchargers produce power linear with rpms...so it makes more power at the top end.
turbos have better instant throttle response (by this i mean, it will make full boost lower in th rpms...and stay at full boost while you press the go pedal down)

superchargers don't have a lag problem common among older turbo setups. if the turbo is sized right and the boost/waste are tuned right, it will not have much of a lag.

superchargers have no way to preserve mpg. turbos can preserve mpg by letting off the throttle (going into vacuum or lower boost...when you fully depress the pedal, full boost is there and kills the mpg again.)

better hurry...

I am sorry, I don't think I ever saw it addressed what SC you are running just that its not made anymore. Which one is it?

its the power enterprises sc......i want it cuzz supposedly it is supper quite and it would b a great sleeper project IMHO well for my box anyways :P

it sounds like a big alternator running.
it has the same serpintine belt design...the boost part is actually a turbo impeller and can be swapped out for different boost levels.
the blow off is a re-circ so it is real quiet. (this motor should never blow to atmosphere)

problems with this setup (all setups have problems) are it needs to be in the higher rpms to get enough boost...anything below 3400 and the superchargers parasitic losses keep it a slow....so crusing the highways at 60-65 in 5th is not a good ride.
but 75-80 in 5th is ok.