Im in the market for a new car, wanted something more luxurious but figured I would take a glance at the xD. Everything looked good, 1.8L engine, started thinking Tanabe Coils, some 19's, suede interior, fiberglass work... until I read that it comes with rear drum brakes. Cmon, its 2007 almost 08. Why cant Scion just put some real brakes on the back of the car? It really turned me off. Not saying the xD is a bad car because of it, I actually think its a good clean slate for modding but Im being very picky with my next car purchase. Dont think the xD is in my future now. Im holding out for the 09 TSX redesign. Maybe Scion will drop some info on the new tC by then so I can have another option.

well lug pattern is the same as the tC, I bet the tC's rear brake system could get swapped in...

drum brakes might not be high tech, but stopping distance is what matters to me... 60-0 in 120 ft is pretty acceptable in my book. besides, have you looked under the car? everything is in the front... where the disc brakes are.

the xB has disc brakes in the back, but it also isn't scions entry-level. i'll keep the disc brakes if it means the scion can come standard with side/curtain airbags, braking systems most cars cant understand, and optional stability control on a "cheap" car.

...Last I checked, plenty of cars in this price range (and even some more expensive cars) still use rear drum brakes, too. As long as the car stops within an acceptable distance, what do you have to complain about?

some people dont like the feel of them, i can understand that to a limit, but i drive my xA daily without complaints. it kind of bothers me that my 300ZX takes quite a while longer to stop, actually. Check braking distances, you might find it a bit funny that the Corvetta and xA stop within 2 feet of each other (according to Edmunds testing).

...Last I checked, plenty of cars in this price range (and even some more expensive cars) still use rear drum brakes, too. As long as the car stops within an acceptable distance, what do you have to complain about?

They can't put cool colored calipers on drum brakes!

Sure u can. Just paint them like everybody else. Not hard at all. Just have to mask it off and spray.

Drums gotta stay black. Painted drums are uncool.

Drums gotta stay black. Painted drums are uncool.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

All depends on personal prefrence. I think they look decent but calipers are better. With the right theme it can look good. One of the guys in my club has painted his red and they look good.

I've seen them red. Screams FnF. Silver is half-way there, but still FnF-ish.

painted drums = :no:

^^Indeed.

WOW, there are car snobs, and then there are CAR SNOBS. :roll: That's really your top priority? Really?

Didn't we have this same absurd conversation on the xB2 boards?

what conversation? I stated my opinion, and I even said the xD was a very nice car but I need to make sure the next car I buy stays since switching cars every 18 months is not financially smart.

I dont like the fact that it comes with rear drums. Your obviously fine with it as I was when I bought the xB since xB1 has drums. Not being a snob or anything, Im trying to choose the best car possible. I loved the xD but the rear drums turned me off.

For instance, go on the Scion website. All the pictures shown of the pimped xD's are with rotor/caliper brakes. Says something doesnt it? They know a car is more visually appealing with a slotted rotor than a rusty drum. Even the xA shown has slotted rotors...

MAN YOU JUST DONT KNOW HOW MUCH I FEEL WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. I DRIVE A GEN 1 XB AND ITS REDICULOUS HOW MUCH WE THE GEN 1 XB DRIVERS WANTED REAR DISC BRAKES AND DID SO MUCH COMPLAINING FOR THEM AND THEN SCION GOES AND PUTS REAR DRUMS ON SOMETHING THAT HAD AS HIGH EXPECTATIONS AS THE XB. I JUST HOPE SOME ONE IN THE AFTERMARKET WAS LISTENING TO THE XB DRIVERS AND SEE THE IDEA FIT FOR THE XD. I JUST KNEW I WAS GOING TO TRADE MY GEN 1 IN FOR IT. BUT YOU NEVER KNOW. I WONDER IF THE TC REAR DISC WOULD FIT

I've got to agree. Look at a Mazda 3i. Four wheel disk and independant suspension all the way around and don't mention msrp because you can get them at invoice with no fees whatsoever. Toyota ought to be ashamed to put out a car with rear drum brakes in 2007.
Not even a freaking option. :no:

swap in the tc. or xrs matrix/corolla rear brakes.

luckily you have some easy options!

you have got to be kidding me, people.... come on. none of you have said anything about brake feel or performance, the only reason you want calipers in the back is to look cool??? i know the whole personalization thing is a big seller for the xDs, but i just don't see the big deal!! OMGOMGWTF my brakes don't match in the back!!

NOT getting an xD for this reason is down-right stupid, IMHO. That is, unless you race, and in that instance, wtf are you looking at an xd?


jesus... "i cant paint my rear drums so im getting another car".... just, wow... i say save some money, go find a used civic and have fun with the rice.

^^^ Thank you.

^_^ at least someone here understands... just to be a prick, I think I'm going to paint my Z31's rear calipers...

and the @sshole award goes to ^^^ :rofl:

but anyways, I already said the xD was a great car. all depends on what I decide in terms of do I want a nice car to begin with or do I want to build a car to make it nice.

and of course the visual of the xD is important. what else does it have working for it? no one buys an xD to make a track beast. never once did I say I was going to paint anything. I just prefer real brakes in the rear.

The "look" of the real brakes, right?

Just my opinion, but I believe most folks who are complaining are doing so more because of looks than any performance difference. I mean, c'mon, the braking system w/ ABS on the xB1 and xD are more than capable of handling a panic stop. More of the braking is done on the front axle than the rear, and the fronts have discs. The rear drums will do just fine for what the car was designed for.

Disc brakes shed heat quicker and are desireable for multiple high speed stops where fade can be an issue. However, on the street in daily driving that is pretty much a non-issue.

I'm sure those who race xb1's are converting to rear discs but for normal street use, the type of use most all xb's and xd's get, the disc/drum setup is more than adequate.

One man's opinions, others may vary.

if you didn't say you wanted to paint the calipers, then that comment must not apply to you. :: accepts trophy ::

the xD has a ton going for it besides rear brakes. the feel might not be what 4 discs is like, but it isn't a bad feel. with all of the braking technologies implied on the xD, braking will not be an issue, with or without rear drums.

and tell me, on a car this fricking small, why aren't drum brakes 'real' brakes?? this goes back to performance, which the xD (and xA, with rear drums) performs exceptionally well. check this page out: http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/techcenter/articles/43857/article.html

good information, scroll to the bottom to hear a modern-day comparison. i like having discs all-round as well, but again, an xd is not a sports car, nor is it very heavy. drum brakes are perfectly acceptable here.

Axxis ULT's brake pads in the front for the xD and call it a day.

First off if ANY BODY paid attention to the racing potential of the scion XD then you would know why there are some people that want rear disc brakes. Even though the XA is lighter the XD still leads the pack in the sport compact division. Do your research man. Look at the comparison with the Fit. if im not mistaken even the fit has a rear disc conversion. The XD just has more potential to be a real track performer. SO JUST BECAUSE YOU DONT WANT TO MAKE YOUR CAR BETTER DOES NOT MEAN YOU HAVE TO TALK ABOUT ANY BODY ELSE

racing.. w/ an xd.. to each his own, i guess, but if im going to race, it will be with a sports car, not an econo-box.

What, you didn't hear about the "Sub-compact Grocery Getter 500"? ;)

lmao... dont get me wrong, my next car will be an xd.. but again, ill leave the racing to my 300zx.

i don't understand people nowadays... i see so many big ___ pickups with racing wheels and a drop kit. why? trucks are for towing/hauling, econoboxes are for basic driving needs, and sports cars are for racing. it should be left at that.

First off if ANY BODY paid attention to the racing potential of the scion XD then you would know why there are some people that want rear disc brakes. Even though the XA is lighter the XD still leads the pack in the sport compact division. Do your research man. Look at the comparison with the Fit. if im not mistaken even the fit has a rear disc conversion. The XD just has more potential to be a real track performer. SO JUST BECAUSE YOU DONT WANT TO MAKE YOUR CAR BETTER DOES NOT MEAN YOU HAVE TO TALK ABOUT ANY BODY ELSEDon't pop a vein!!! Seriously ! You can make an argument for racing almost any car, but that doesn't mean it's going to happen. It's natural to be passionate about a car and wish it had some things that it doesn't come with, but one must be reasonable.

Consider this: All auto makers have to decide what their market will be for any particular car. Once that's done, they have to make that car desirable to the "majority" of that market, and must meet a certain price point. There are innumerable decisions and calculations which must be made before bringing a car to market. What shall be standard equipment, what shall be optional, and what shall not be available. In other words, what "combination" of equipment and features will be appealing to the larger number of possible purchasers. That's where the old saying "you can't please everyone" comes into play.

There are probably lots of features Scion could have deleted in order to make rear disc brakes a standard feature...power windows and locks, cruise control, nice stereo w/ iPod connector, side curtain air bags, ABS....any of those and several more. However, most folks crave creature and safety comforts and could care less about the rear brakes ( I would even venture to say most folks don't even know the difference, in this particular market).

Now, everyone here is just speaking their minds. The first gentleman made his point and several responded. Don't go and blow a fuse just because you don't like what you read.

Take it easy.

lmao... dont get me wrong, my next car will be an xd.. but again, ill leave the racing to my 300zx.

i don't understand people nowadays... i see so many big butt pickups with racing wheels and a drop kit. why? trucks are for towing/hauling, econoboxes are for basic driving needs, and sports cars are for racing. it should be left at that.

What i dont understand is why people think everyone can afford two cars or a "sports car" for that matter so we buy a less expensive car and modify it

I never assumed that, ___. I just happened to have a 2000 dollar sports car lying around. What I am saying is, you want a sports car, get one, don't try to make an econobox a sports car! drop it, sway bars all around, whatever, but realize that the xD, xA, xB, and xB2 are NOT sports cars by ANY means and NEVER WILL BE.

They can be fun, sure, but if you are so poor that you can only afford an xD, how can you _____ about not having rear calipers to paint and modify. Save that mod money and get a tC, or some used older car.

Again, I repeat, make your econobox as FUN as you want it, but realize that it IS AN ECONOBOX. This means it doesn't need rear discs!! No matter how riced out you make it, an xD will never require rear disc brakes. If you take this out as your track car, you better have a huge pool of mod money, or else you are a complete idiot. An ECONOBOX does not have the frame or suspension to handle track racing.

Did i mention that the xD is an ECONOBOX? just making sure everyone understands this. xD = great city/highway car, plenty of "fun mods." xD (does NOT) = sports car, or anything in need of disc brakes in the rear. Weight distribution is the main factor, and if you try to look up the xDs, you get a bunch of blanks. Probably because it is somewhere around 70/30. NOT FOR RACING.

Drums gotta stay black. Painted drums are uncool.

Just saw this on a custom Willys today
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa264/toronado455/08-26-07_1639.jpg
Sorry about the low quality cell phone pic. Drum is painted orange to match custom orange paint on the car and the 20" chrome wheel has little matching orange accents in it too.

I don't like any of it.

dude, that's rust.

OFFROADINFRONTIER WHY dont you try telling the japanese that and see what happens i swear they would argue you down. Sports cars in fact are not the only cars to race. Have you not played GRAN TURISMO? What im saying is that there are MORE THAN ONE CALSS OF RACING.

are you comparing real-world driving to a video game? NFS-Carbon has an R34 that gets whooped by a camaro. You think that's real?

Sure, you can race any "calss" cars you want.. but you have to realize that, no matter what you do to an econobox, until you redesign the suspension, engine, and everything in-between, you are still racing an econobox.

That said, I can't wait to get my xD.

I love racing 1.5L civic hatch in Forza2. Feels a lot like the xD - and the cool thing I don't have to pay for track time, risk wrecking (cheap as it may be) $15K car and I can do it with a beer in my hand :)

Forza rules >:-)

But no matter how "real" it may be, I'll keep it in the game.

I autocrossed the crap out of my tC, took it to the Dragon couple of times (including one near miss with an oak-tree), took it out on Road Atlanta. Real racing is an expensive and dangerous hobby. I'm not rich enough for it and I haven't had a car loan in years. Ever since I'd rather keep it on XBOX - safe and cheap.

OK, by no means am i saying just because a car is on a game that its a "race Car" . What i am saying is that you have to look at power to weght ratios and be able to tell if a car has potential or not. I tell you what, you need to pick up a SIPHON magazine and read because you obviously do not know about the type of Racing that is going on. Like i said there is more racing going on than drag strips. Educate yourself my friend before you talk down on something thats been going on before you even knew about it. Why do you think they compared the XD to the fit. Do you even know of what other cars that could be in this same class of racing? If you didnt know, which you probably didnt its the Versa. You would have known that if you picked up a SIPHON magazine. Do your research Before you REPLY. :ttth:

See, kids? Wanna race, get a tC.

I'm sure this has been mentioned, but it's late, I'm tired, and I don't want to read all three pages of responses to check.

If it has been mentioned.....well, consider it a reinforcement of a valid point.

First of all, this is a small, light weight car. On all cars, the front brakes generally take the brunt when it comes to stopping. That is why you will often see on cars that have disk brakes all around they put bigger disks and more pistons calipers up front versus in the back. You also have to keep in mind the POWER of the car. It's a 128hp vehicle......it doesn't need full discs all around. You WON'T have problems stopping the car.

As others mentioned, it is common to see in this vehicle class that manufacturers put drums in the rear.

My last point is that.....Scions are GOOD cars with a lot of things standard that other companies would charge for as options. Yet, they are still cheap (monetarily)....cheaper than a lot of people would expect for everything that you get. You have to realize that money has to be saved SOMEWHERE in the manufacturing process for them to keep Scions cheap. Drum brakes are less expensive.....and if they get the job done for the particular application.......why turn it into a more expensive car just for disk brakes in the back?

So yeah, seriously......if you are looking at the xD or cars in its class, rear drum brakes should be the least of your worries. Now, if you were to be in the market for a high power sports car, and found out it came with rear drum brakes......I'd tell you to run like the wind from that particular vehicle........but as far as I know, you won't find that on modern cars. STOPPING power is more important than GOING power....which is why I hate it when I see people pump all kinds of horses worth of mods into their car, while completely ignoring brake upgrades.

Anyway, hope this helped

KiL

Dude I just wish it came with disc brakes because they are easier to maintain that way.

Dude I just wish it came with disc brakes because they are easier to maintain that way.

I agree. All performance and cosmetic benefits aside, disc brakes all around is the best set up just from a maintenance standpoint alone.

While that may be, you won't be spending enough extra maintanence money on these drums vs the rears to compensate for the extra price of rear discs. And on a car of this caliber, that's what matters, right? ;-)

KingLou i do understand what you are saying. you make a lot of sense when you talk and like i said i understand your stand point. The only thing that it came down to justifying is that these cars IN FACT CAN be productive racing platforms, due to the light weight and hp ratio. the car is leading the pack in the b segment cars. (Honda Fit, Scion XA, not sure about the toyota Yaris beecause its lighter) but it is a competitor and thats how manufacturers make their sales, by competition. The car can do some things on the track if tuned and modified correctly.

BRV, thats the whole point - "IF TUNED AND MODIFIED CORRECTLY." If someone is willing to tune and modify it properly, they can do with it what they want. But in stock form, even if the xD had discs in the rear, it is NOT a track car. It is a fun, spirited grocery-getter/people mover.

^ seriously.

KingLou i do understand what you are saying. you make a lot of sense when you talk and like i said i understand your stand point. The only thing that it came down to justifying is that these cars IN FACT CAN be productive racing platforms, due to the light weight and hp ratio. the car is leading the pack in the b segment cars. (Honda Fit, Scion XA, not sure about the toyota Yaris beecause its lighter) but it is a competitor and thats how manufacturers make their sales, by competition. The car can do some things on the track if tuned and modified correctly.

I see what you are saying, but if you are truly buying an xD for track purposes, then keep in mind the very last thing you said (and I am basically echoing what offroadinfrontier just said):

"The car can do some things on the track if tuned and modified correctly."

So, if track performance is your thing, then "tuned and modified correctly" should involve you ponying up for an aftermarket upgrade to disc brakes all around.

You must, however, keep in mind that Scion has not developed or positioned this car in the market as a compact track/racing vehicle. They are designed and marketed as fun and funky, yet economical vehicles. That being the case, they are looking to save money in areas that they can, while still providing impressive standard features for the general consumer without breaking the bank.

KiL

While that may be, you won't be spending enough extra maintanence money on these drums vs the rears to compensate for the extra price of rear discs. And on a car of this caliber, that's what matters, right? ;-)

I wasn't talking cost so much as ease of maintenance from the mechanic's standpoint. I don't think there is a cost benefit for disc brakes. If anything, disc brakes probably cost more to maintain.

But I prefer the design/engineering of disc brakes over the design/engineering of drum brakes.

Disc brakes are much easier to work on, that's true... hell on some setups, take off the tire and 2 bolts and you have full access to pads, rotors, and calipers.

OK kids, take notes. Tornado has a legitimate argument!! Ease of maintanence is an important factor, NOT the color of the brake parts.

But again, the Econobox factor still wins.

While that may be, you won't be spending enough extra maintanence money on these drums vs the rears to compensate for the extra price of rear discs. And on a car of this caliber, that's what matters, right? ;-)

I wasn't talking cost so much as ease of maintenance from the mechanic's standpoint. I don't think there is a cost benefit for disc brakes. If anything, disc brakes probably cost more to maintain.

But I prefer the design/engineering of disc brakes over the design/engineering of drum brakes.I believe what offroadinfrontier meant was that it costs the manufacturer more money to equip a car with disc brakes than it does drum brakes.

As for the maintenance, at least on the rear, I am expecting to do maybe one brake job over the life of this car, well, maybe 2. Most cars I've ever owned didn't need rear brakes until 50-60,000 miles.

Jim

ok im out

I believe what offroadinfrontier meant was that it costs the manufacturer more money to equip a car with disc brakes than it does drum brakes.

I suppose that's true. Or at least we as consumers have been conditioned to believe that is the case. 4-wheel disc brakes are still considered an "upscale" feature, and as such it would not really be appropriate as standard equip on an entry level model. They may just be rear drums on the xD to differentiate it more from the xB.

But Scions are "monospec" so it probably saves Toyota something to equip all cars the same. If rear disc was optional on the xD, it would definitely cost them more. But if rear disc was standard on xD, it might be a negligible cost factor for Toyota. I'm just guessing here.

For example, as you see more and more cars with power windows standard these days, manufacturers have gotten to the point where in some cases it would be more costly to make the crank windows.

Some things are just the way they are to differentiate brands. How much more do you think it costs Toyota to make a Lexus ES than a Camry? Probably not much. And definitely not as much more as it costs to buy a Lexus ES vs. Camry. I'm guessing there is a lot more profit per unit in the Lexus ES for Toyota.

you have got to be kidding me, people.... come on. none of you have said anything about brake feel or performance, the only reason you want calipers in the back is to look cool??? i know the whole personalization thing is a big seller for the xDs, but i just don't see the big deal!! OMGOMGWTF my brakes don't match in the back!!

NOT getting an xD for this reason is down-right stupid, IMHO. That is, unless you race, and in that instance, wtf are you looking at an xd?


jesus... "i cant paint my rear drums so im getting another car".... just, wow... i say save some money, go find a used civic and have fun with the rice.

well put ....thank you........ having abs standard is huge PERIOD.....

ona 15K car WGAF about drum brakes. in the long run they'll be cheaper to work on.