For those of you having issues with your paint, read this! [Archive]

rallyxb

12-06-2004, 02:14 AM

Maybe they'll at least admit that they use the crappiest automotive paint and painting process known to mankind. That would be good enough for me. I already know I need the car re-painted, after less than one month of ownership, but it'd be nice for them to at least say "oh yeah, we just said screw it and skimped out".

I agree. The paint job on my xB gets scratched and chipped VERY easily.
My cheap-___ Saturn < $10,000 car had a superior paint job
and still looked new after 3 years, so don't let them give you
a line about "but it's a cheap car."
:x
When the guy at the paint shop looked over my xB he said
“it's a thin paint job with a 1 layer of clear coat instead of 2 to 3 layers”
which may be why it gets damaged to easily.

Also… anyone got tips on HOW-TO take good pictures of the paint problems
without a lot of reflections and glare?
:idea:
What about signing an online petition to submit as evidence?
Any official "recall" or "defect" web-sites we can post our grievances to?

I love my xB, I just hate the poor quality paint.

KevinxB

12-06-2004, 02:36 AM

I had a Chevy Cavalier that I sold to buy my xB. The paint on it looked better after 2 years and 45K highway miles than that of my xB w/ only 15K miles mostly in the city. So I don't want to hear any of that cheap car BS, either.

The Cav had also survived an attack from quite a large rock flying from a dump truck a few car-lengths ahead of me on the highway. It hit the hood and the passenger side rearview mirror. It left a nice scratch, but it did not take the paint off down to the metal, nor did it start to rust. I can't say the same for a more minor chip that mysteriously appeared on my xB's hood.

smash

12-06-2004, 03:25 AM

:idea:
What about signing an online petition to submit as evidence?
Any official "recall" or "defect" web-sites we can post our grievances to?

I love my xB, I just hate the poor quality paint.

That's a really good idea.. but I'd have no idea how to go about setting something like that up. Any suggestions anyone? I wonder if there's a website or something that sets up petitions maybe.

smash

12-06-2004, 03:29 AM

Sorry, forgot to mention:

To take decent pictures of paint defects;

I bought a new digital camera with a really good zoom on it. You can try taking the picture w/o a flash up close in good light, and they should turn out fine. It proved to be much easier using the digital camera because you can preview the picture before you take it with the LCD screen. Make sure to leave some space between the lens and the chip or else all you'll get is a couple blurry blobs. I don't recommend using a cheap throwaway camera for something like this- you will not like the results!

FlintM05tc

12-06-2004, 12:08 PM

I have just found many more new chips on my scion tc and its only been about a month and a half now.

I have a nice Dig sony and will be posting some pics ASAP.

This is very unacceptable for a brand new car.

The only time I have noticed paint chips this bad is on a car with several years on it.

rallyxb

12-06-2004, 02:20 PM

Let's start an online petition to submit as evidence.
Can we use this thread?
:?:

smash

12-06-2004, 04:28 PM

Yes! Yes!! But how?? :oops:

rallyxb

12-06-2004, 05:47 PM

Yes! Yes!! But how?? :oops:

I found these links about "car lemon law" but
I don't have time to read them right now.
:?:
What do you think?

http://www.carlemon.com/
http://www.mylemon.com/Lemon_Law_Tips.htm
http://www.lemonlawamerica.com/
http://www.oag.state.ny.us/consumer/cars/newcarlemon.html
http://autopedia.com/Lemon/

rallyxb

12-07-2004, 02:31 AM

Bump...
:wink:

Nihilistjak

12-15-2004, 01:30 PM

Just thought I'd contribute...The day I got my Scion (2005 xA, Indigo Ink watever blue) I noticed grain like specs. They were rough and raised, white and gray, and if you tried to wipe them off, they took the paint with them. Also, my antenna had a HUGE bubble that tore off. This car has 6 miles on it and I am ____ed about this paint job. I'm taking it back to the dealer this friday. They said they'd repaint it under warrenty. Maybe they'll get it right the second time.

Cybergypsy

12-15-2004, 01:37 PM

rallyxb

12-16-2004, 02:33 PM

seems everything thats not normal for other cars is normal for the tc!

paint peeling NORMAL!
sunroof noise NORMAL!
many problems Normal!
tc owners denial Normal!
AC Sucks Normal!
Heat Sucks Normal!

Don't you *ever* have anything helpful to say?
Stop wasting our bandwidth with your immature comments.

jwinters78

12-26-2004, 04:06 AM

I can completely understand that a rock will chip *any* paint.... however, I have a car w/ over 125,000 miles on it with better paint than my xA. It is frustrating... and i think the fact that we are all experiencing this seemingly abnormal chipping should tell toyota something: That they used crap for paint (granted, nicely colored crap). I hope we can do something about this... it seems to be plaguing many of us and something must be done.

Thanks for your efforts -- i'll post my pictures once i get back from vacation.
~jonathan

StealthTC414

12-26-2004, 04:22 AM

I just came across this thread today due to the fact i found about 500 or so mini scratches and a few big ones, along my hatch, fenders, rear quarter, hood, a pillars, just about everything, I am going first thing monday morning to scion because there is no way they can say this is my fault or just oridinary rock scratches. I will take pictures tonight or tomorrow to see how clear it comes out. Please let me know if there is anything being done for this matter.

Code3_xB

12-27-2004, 03:33 AM

I am interested to know how this turns out. I do agree that excessive rock chipping is a sign of improperly cured paint, or not enough rubberizer. Swirls are only caused by incorrectly handling the paint. Washing/waxing/drying/cleaning in circular motions are all bad. But again, if the paint isn't hardened fully for whatever reason, i suppose it could be *easier* to scratch.

Anyhow - you can't compare Jaguar or Mercedes/BMW paint to Scion paint. You didn't pay 50,000 dollars or more for your Scion. Isn't it "You get what you pay for" ?

I have to admit i'm a little dismayed at the sounds of all this as i am SUPER anal about my cars appearance... and plan to get an xB soon. :?

I wonder if you guys do 'win' this - it will change the process they use and impact the MSRPs.

Good luck! Keep us posted

rogcjms

12-27-2004, 06:38 AM

and i know people are gonna reply and say $14,000...etc. but you would think at least the paint job would be a priority you know? My xB isnt as bad as other owners but i dont know much about waxing and all that because this is my first brand new ride that i actually wanna take care of. I have waxed my xB before and it seems once i get a any kind of towel terry or microfiber the swirls come right back. like i said in my last post i believe the clearcoat is what is causing most of the problems on the Scions, the paint may actually be good, just the clear coat really thin. I'm gonna talk to my dealer and have them look and see what they say about the paint. If i had the $ i would have it painted 2-3 times and then clear coated 2-3 times after.

ProtoCulture

12-27-2004, 11:36 AM

rallyxb

12-27-2004, 05:35 PM

. . . What we have on this forum is mostly people who probably pay more attention to their paint than most and likey will exaggerate (in their own minds) even the smallest flaw in the paint...

What?!
:shock:
Did you read the other posts?

Many of us have already had NEW (or used) cars
with MUCH better paint jobs.

The fact of the matter is that Scion (Toyota)
did not cure the paint properly and / or
use enough clear coat. (I personally think the latter)

As many of us have already said before, it has NOTHING
to do with the fact that it's an "inexpensive car."

My Saturn SL1 only cost $10K and the paint still looked NEW
after 3 years when the lease was up.

The point is: We need to find a solution.

These cars were designed by Toyota in the hopes of
getting us hooked on the "Toyota brand" so we will come back for more.

If something as simple as a paint job can't hold up
what does that say about the quality of the rest of the car?
Did they cut corners anywhere else?
:?

shimmy

12-28-2004, 02:45 AM

I have a 2002 Toyota 4Runner that is the Thunder Cloud color. It is the same color and paint as the Scions. I have had no problems with it and have found it to be great paint (much better than the 99 Civic Si I had). So, my thoughts? This is the same type of paint used on Toyota's higher end cars. It is quality stuff. What we have on this forum is mostly people who probably pay more attention to their paint than most and likey will exaggerate (in their own minds) even the smallest flaw in the paint...

http://scion.20megsfree.com/images/scionhooddamage1.jpg
http://scion.20megsfree.com/images/scionhoodpics008web.jpg
http://scion.20megsfree.com/images/scionhoodpics007web.jpg

Okay...I have a tons of chips...this is the least of my problems. I was a professional detailer for several years. Paint should not look like this!! My hood is starting to fade badly after wearing the toyota mask for 2 weeks while on vacation. I started a website to ____ off scion. It's not finished yet but here are some pics from it

http://scion.20megsfree.com/photo.html

I have posted on this subject before. I still have to take the car to the dealership, but these pictures are proof of a bad paint job(at least on myh car)

ProtoCulture

12-28-2004, 07:26 AM

Didn't mean anything personal, but my statement stands. Please do not take offense.

Ashe_WCM

12-28-2004, 11:51 AM

If we were griping about our 4runners then you would have something to talk about. we are not, we are talking about our Scion's, It has nothing to do with any other Makes/Models. Alot of us feel that Toyota, in order to make a bit more profit off a new brand that they did not know was going to be profitable deciced to cut a corner or two, most in regards to the clearcoat on Scion models.

Code3_xB

12-28-2004, 06:21 PM

Someone mentioned above that there was a fading problem as well - Fading is caused by UV light . Is UV protectant normally put in the paint, or the clearcoat?? If it's in the paint, then this problem may extend BEYOND just a thin or crappy clearcloat... :!:

rallyxb

12-29-2004, 02:54 AM

FLY_SCI

12-29-2004, 03:19 AM

I posted this a while back about the paint peeling off the right side skirt on my xB:

Has anyone else had this happen? The paint had peeled off the right side skirt on my BSP xB. I was driving on the freeway one morning when I heard this faint slapping sound. When I got to my destination, I looked at the side of my car to find what looked like a long strip of tint stuck to the door and side skirt. I pulled on it to find that it was still semi-attahed to the skirt and that it was actually almost all of the paint that had peeled away from the skirt. I pulled more, and the paint strip ripped off of the car leaving only a small section still painted. Luckily, the gel coat on the skirt itself is black, so it just looked like a really dull or dirty part on my car.

I took it back the dealer, and explained what happened. The manager there thought that it was a poorly prepped part and that when it rained here recently, the paint had lost it's adhesion. Three trips back the dealer later (antother story all-together), I had a brand new side skirt installed at no cost. I wonder if this is happeneing to all Scions, just xB's, just the BSP's or is an isolated case? Chime in!

I never got much a response from this, but am glad to contribute if it will help.

smash

12-30-2004, 03:33 AM

Thank you for all your replies. I still have yet to receive paperwork from Scion for my arbitration case (was supposed to get it 7 business days from November 19th, lol- they're just making this harder for themselves, aren't they?). Anyway, bottom line, the more input and more importantly, PICTURES (aka proof!) the better. If I don't have anything to show them it'll be more difficult to prove it's a widespread problem as it appears to be. All your help and input is appreciated.

cmdxb

12-30-2004, 12:22 PM

wowo , harsh werds!!!! i too have massive paint chipping on the front of my car, my infiniti, has 2 chips on it...we both drive the same exact way to wewrk everyday....i dunno, i think it may be a combination of both shoddy paint and random rocks..but i will support u smash in ur efforts for sure, esp if it gets me a bangin new paint job..hehe...i will email pics tonite , good luck with the arbitration..

xBoX_Driver

12-31-2004, 03:28 PM

Keitaro

01-02-2005, 02:39 PM

Arbitration? How about a class action? Class action makes a better news worthy item than an arbitration.

Anyone ever contacted bB/ ist owners in Japan? They've had our cars longer than the US. I wonder what they would have to say about rock chips. Or maybe the roads in Japan is better than here. I dont think Toyota would cut short the painting process for the USDM xB while the JDM bB was given a superior painting process.

rallyxb

01-03-2005, 12:51 AM

... Anyone ever contacted bB/ ist owners in Japan? They've had our cars longer than the US. I wonder what they would have to say about rock chips....

Now there's a great idea!
Anyone got the URL of the Japanese version of Scion-Life?
:wink:

KevinxB

01-03-2005, 02:39 AM

I thought the bB and xB were made right along-side each other in Japan. The paint process should be the same. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

smash

01-03-2005, 02:43 AM

If it's not a defect then how come every other god damn car on the road doesn't need to be repainted after a month ?????? I can't believe any of you would say this is NORMAL. Could it happen to any car? Sure. But does it? Nope. And is this normal for a new car? Absof*ckinglutely not.

First and foremost. . . .
Calm down.

With this sort of language, IF and WHEN the people at Scion look at these postings (and they do) this sort of display of emotion will do NOTHING to help you, and your problem(s). It only depicts a spoiled little girl that is not getting 'her way.'
They are also not going to be interested in your photos of yourself and your legs. I suggest that you remove these photos from the postings of the car.

Next. . . .
Knowing what the Capital Beltway is like, do you drive on that 'construction pit' very often?
IF so, you will probably will find that 'road hazards' are not covered under the manufacturer's warranty. (My guess is that the 'Arbitration Board' will rule on this VERY item.)
While I agree that Scion's paint is not the best in the world, the environment that the vehicle is subjected to will cause more damage than the lack of additional coats of 'Clearcoat'.

Next. . .
How do you wash/wax the car? Carwash? By hand?
Some carwash facilities are known to 'beat up' paint. With the brushes pounding the paint, tiny flaws develop in the paint that DO become chips.
(This comes from experience. Over a million [plus] miles of it.)
I, for one, don't EVER take any of my cars/trucks to a carwash.

Good luck in your arbitration.

Excuse me? I didn't realize that getting angry because of ignorant people not willing to understand what I'm trying to point out was a crime. These boards are an area where people are free to express themselves in any manner. Do not tell me that I should watch my language, because you could not possibly understand how much I've been through with this issue or how many people I've already dealt with along the way. I don't believe in any way that a mutual third party hearing my arbitration case will look at this board and say "well, she swore here, so obviously we can't rule in her favor". Fool.

I do not drive on the beltway. I am already aware of Scion's warranty and their "road hazard" policy, and if you had been reading most of my posts on this subject you would know who I've already talked to at Scion about this and why I'm willing to take this case as far as I am. Furthermore, the 'environment' that the car is driven in has already been compared to several other tC's in the area bought at or around the same time period as mine which show no signs of chipping or peeling paint. Therefore I'm willing to bet that those cars- obviously driven on the same roads and possibly subjected to more highway use- are for some reason not showing the same signs of faulty paint.

99% of the time I wash my car by hand, otherwise it is done by a professional carwash, not the type that leaves swirl marks on paint- I have had plenty of experience with this in the past.

I am not a "spoiled little girl" as you put it. In the ideals of all those at Scion, I am a young working professional who has paid every cent of my cars for myself, and don't appreciate being treated otherwise- especially by those who don't know any better and shouldn't be making a comment in the first place.

Lastly, the pictures I have posted are for my personal use only, and when I go to my case with Scion I am bringing prepared photos and other materials that will be used for my case. I don't think you realize who you're taking such an authoritative tone of voice with, because I am not a naive 'little girl' who needs a talking to because 'I am not getting my way'. If anything, it's people like you that drive people like me to such extremes as a class action suit, and people like you in the end that are left sitting biting your tongue when you are proven wrong. Good day.

shimmy

01-03-2005, 04:16 AM

ouch...I saw that coming from a mile away.

rallyxb

01-03-2005, 07:26 PM

ouch...I saw that coming from a mile away.

touche'

Well said.
8)

Ashe_WCM

01-03-2005, 07:48 PM

To quote Kelso on "Thats 70's Show" : Burn! ;)

xBoX_Driver

01-05-2005, 11:51 AM

I QUOTE:>>Excuse me? I didn't realize that getting angry because of ignorant people not willing to understand what I'm trying to point out was a crime. These boards are an area where people are free to express themselves in any manner. Do not tell me that I should watch my language, because you could not possibly understand how much I've been through with this issue or how many people I've already dealt with along the way. I don't believe in any way that a mutual third party hearing my arbitration case will look at this board and say "well, she swore here, so obviously we can't rule in her favor". Fool.

I do not drive on the beltway. I am already aware of Scion's warranty and their "road hazard" policy, and if you had been reading most of my posts on this subject you would know who I've already talked to at Scion about this and why I'm willing to take this case as far as I am. Furthermore, the 'environment' that the car is driven in has already been compared to several other tC's in the area bought at or around the same time period as mine which show no signs of chipping or peeling paint. Therefore I'm willing to bet that those cars- obviously driven on the same roads and possibly subjected to more highway use- are for some reason not showing the same signs of faulty paint.

99% of the time I wash my car by hand, otherwise it is done by a professional carwash, not the type that leaves swirl marks on paint- I have had plenty of experience with this in the past.

I am not a "spoiled little girl" as you put it. In the ideals of all those at Scion, I am a young working professional who has paid every cent of my cars for myself, and don't appreciate being treated otherwise- especially by those who don't know any better and shouldn't be making a comment in the first place.

Lastly, the pictures I have posted are for my personal use only, and when I go to my case with Scion I am bringing prepared photos and other materials that will be used for my case. I don't think you realize who you're taking such an authoritative tone of voice with, because I am not a naive 'little girl' who needs a talking to because 'I am not getting my way'. If anything, it's people like you that drive people like me to such extremes as a class action suit, and people like you in the end that are left sitting biting your tongue when you are proven wrong. Good day. <<< End quote.

First and foremost. . .
I would suggest, don't ever call someone that you don't know, a "Fool." THAT I am not, other than to stoop to your level to respond to your tirade and posting, to begin with.
This will be the last time that I do this.
As you stated, this forum is for "expressing", yes, but, to start flaming someone as you are, yes, you ACT like a'spoiled little girl that is not getting her way.'
Case in point. . . the way you responded to MY post. (See above.)
As for "someone who doesn't know any better. . . ." Ouch. Stop it. That hurt.
Little girl. . . You are defintely acting like a spoiled little BRAT.

This I know, because I have kids older than you are. Guaranteed.

The comment I made about your photos was to emphasize that in your post, you are directing EVERYONE that sees your post (in this forum) to view pictures of your car, when in fact, you have more pictures of yourself posted, than photos of your car!

This post (as yours was) is MY opinion. If you don't like it, TOUGH CRAP.
For the record: I have logged over two million [plus] (yes million) miles on vechicles from Toyota, Ford, Chevrolet, Honda, Scion, Dodge, Chrysler, Plymouth.
I KNOW about vehicles, maintenance, rapair, paint and body work. Been there. Done that. I have probably painted more cars than you have years, in your short life.

I sincerely hope that you get the 'attention' that you are seeking.

Have a nice life.

bahamut_zero

01-05-2005, 05:59 PM

Please...back to the topic at hand. This looks like it could be a serious issue with our paint if it is widespread.

BumpinTC0719

01-05-2005, 06:09 PM

I have an Azure Pearl TC and YES my paint is chipping BAD too :roll: , especially in the front of the car. I will email sum pics soon. Good Luck!! I planned on goin to the dealership this week and seeing if the warranty will cover the paint chips and I will let everyone know wut i find out about it. Good Luck!

peterbilt

01-05-2005, 07:05 PM

I am a detailer for a company and I too have never seen so much swirl marks on a new car before like my xB. I wash it by hand and then chamois it. I use microfibric towels to put a gloss enhancer on it too. So i know what I am doin because I have been doing it to a lot of cars over time. I know its the kind of paint there using so we need to fix this problem. BTW my xB is black sand pearl. :wink:

ditto. well, everthing but the detailer part - i'm a designer. a very anal designer. my box is babied - washed (correctly), chamois, microfiber, wax (zymol), garaged, dusted... you get the idea. paint chips, swirl marks, bug acid - it's silly.
your average joe sixpack (no offence randode) thinks the car looks great 'cause it's clean and shiny, but i've been around classic cars all of my life and know paint. the scion paint sucks. period. i've got it about as good as you can get it - short of dave west's - but you shouldn't have to baby it as much as i do.

smash

01-06-2005, 02:08 AM

Anyway.. now that pops has finished his crazy ranting, anyone that would indeed like to send me pics of their stuff please do. Obviously this post has gotten ridiculously off topic so, enough of that.

I've already spoken with quite a few people about this, and would be more than happy to accept anyone's input on the experience with his or her car. Thanks!

JACKNBX

01-07-2005, 11:43 PM

just my 2 cents but most people follow way too close going down the road, this is where you get the chips in your paint. If you ever get the chance to check out the front of a car that you notice follows at a far distance from the car in front of it you will see what i am talking about.

smash

01-08-2005, 04:50 AM

actually someone else has brought this up in another post. i agree, that is a very good way to get chips on your car, however I take very good car to leave a wide berth between the front end of my car and the tail end of the car in front of me. sure it won't stop everything from hitting you, but it does make quite a bit of difference.

genuine58

01-08-2005, 08:21 AM

Grrr...as much as I love my Tc.... and I will rant and rave about it all day, but the paint has the finish of a pro job, but the quality of a maaco job...soo sorry scion. It is just the truth that there is little clear and the paint is thin on the lower portion of the car. I jus bought a pint of azure pearl to cover some minor blemishes occuring after 1000 miles. ......I only agree that the paint should have a better protection base/clear

kris79

01-30-2005, 07:27 PM

at first i thought everyone was anal but wow scion pant really does suck! i picked up my car 5 days ago and i have 300 miles and i live in sf cali so i dont use the freeway much and i have around 8 chips on my front bumper already . and today while washing my car my hose fell on the car and made 2 scratches and i am at the sheet metal already.... :nope: that happened to 2 of my cars and all i had to do was wax it. but i alread plan on repainting the car in 1 year.

hondaxhonda

01-30-2005, 07:51 PM

you deserve to drive a ford fiesta or a chevy lumina or something if you think the tC sucks.

If it's not a defect then how come every other god damn car on the road doesn't need to be repainted after a month ?????? I can't believe any of you would say this is NORMAL. Could it happen to any car? Sure. But does it? Nope. And is this normal for a new car? Absof*ckinglutely not.

seems everything thats not normal for other cars is normal for the tc!

paint peeling NORMAL!
sunroof noise NORMAL!
many problems Normal!
tc owners denial Normal!
AC Sucks Normal!
Heat Sucks Normal!

Ashe_WCM

01-30-2005, 08:43 PM

you deserve to drive a ford fiesta or a chevy lumina or something if you think the tC sucks.

She has every right to think the tC sucks, altho I wish all of you would leave it where it's on topic. Altho at least hers had something to do with the topic.

Max2k

02-07-2005, 03:03 AM

Y'all need to stop obsessing over your paint. Scratches and chips happen, that's life. You don't need to repaint the entire car because of a couple chips here and there.

nataku009

02-27-2005, 11:16 AM

:no: any dealership in the country that wants to say that there is not a problem with the primerless bonded paint jobs on the scion is full of it i had a friend of mine that has worked for ppg for 25 years look at my black cherry xb as yes the paint not only flakes off it comes off in sheets ( pics soon) off the skirts bumpers and hood of these cars can take a look at mine according to my friend the chemically bonded primerless paint on the scions will come off the car easily and readily if the car was not completely dirt and greasy free at the time of paint more and more scion drivers are beginning to get the paint defect over time since i brought up the problem to scion in early june of this year like the person said from scion 3 yrs or 36000 miles but the problem is not only on scion they quite frankly don't know what to do they at a loss on the sheer number of cars coming in with paint problems not only is it their problem the paint manufactuer is lible as well for the failure of their paint and should be held accountable as much as scion but be certain this is going to become more of a prob in the future and toyota will have to repaint every scion sold in the us market with a normal tryed and true paint or face serious legal consequences

LavaBox_v1

02-27-2005, 01:23 PM

You can't controll rock chips. My dads Lexus LX470 has TONS of rock chips on the front bumper and the hood. Alot of the chips are down to the metal. Also my Step-Moms Mercedes SL600 has rock chips on the front and she NEVER really drives the car. You can't avoid rock chips. Bubbling of the paint is one story but rock chips is non-avoidable. The Scions my not have been painted right, but then explain my dad Lexus and my stepmoms Benz ...

neuromonic

02-27-2005, 10:00 PM

My last car was a rally-blue wrx that I also bought brand new.
Within the first 6 months it had so many rock chips on the front hood and fenders that it looked like I ran into a can of white paint.

The truth is: painting a car well costs alot of time and money. Toyota is not the only company cutting corners on paint, these days.

emlpro

02-28-2005, 06:09 AM

Insurance co. just sent me an $800 check to cover painting the front doors due to a scratch on one from "some kind of animal" (that's what the appraiser said), and a scratch on another from my fingernail while washing the car (my nails are SHORT - I swear!).

The insurance co.'s gonna go berserk when I show them this... some kids "lobbed" a raw egg into on-coming traffic the other night - landed on my hood (see pic). Took the paint off down to bare metal! No dent, no paint.

Car is 1.5 months old w/2500 miles. For lack of a better explanation, the paint seems extremely "soft."

I wonder how much it would cost to have the entire car re-painted?

http://ecstasy.mnet.tzo.com/hood.jpg

smash

02-28-2005, 01:21 PM

I wonder how much it would cost to have the entire car re-painted?

Unfortunately, quite a bit. If you're looking to have a professional paintjob with paint that nears factory quality (or, in our cases better than factory quality) then you'll probably be looking in the ballpark of $3-5k. I've also run into a lot of reluctance from paint shops in the area to want to paint the entire car- most simply do insurance or repair work and prefer not to paint the entire car. Also, once a car has been repainted chances are it won't look as good as the factory job. I'd recommend you do what I've opted for in having the front end of the car repainted and blended back into the fenders- then consider getting a 3M ClearBra.

smash

03-02-2005, 02:15 PM

** UPDATE **

My arbitration hearing will be 2 weeks from today, Wednesday, March 16th.

Wish me luck!

FrankenScion

03-02-2005, 02:17 PM

Good luck. :clap:

XBman

03-02-2005, 11:09 PM

good luck.....

rallyxb

03-05-2005, 08:47 PM

** UPDATE **

My arbitration hearing will be 2 weeks from today, Wednesday, March 16th.

Wish me luck!

Good luck... :pray:
Keep us posted.

Tomas

03-05-2005, 09:54 PM

So far I don't appear to have an unusual chipping problem with my PW xB, but due to some vandalism I have an ugly dent in its hood. What's odd about that is the paint around the dent came off the metal in one broken piece as if it had nearly zero bond with the metal...

Perhaps the paint problem(s) are multifold: Clearcoat too thin/fragile, overall paint too brittle (shatters or cracks rather than flexing), and poor bonding with substrate.

Not being a paint expert I can't really say for sure - it's just that I've never seen paint on any of the other 27 cars I've owned separate from the metal so easily...

Toasterbox05

03-05-2005, 09:57 PM

i have had my xb for about 2-3 weeks now, after reading nearly every post here, i read of peoples pealing paint and bubbling, but smash's paint is clearly chipped, that happens on all cars if you dive under certian conditions, would like to see some of the bubbling or peeling paint (comming off in sheets), this would be a defect...but note older chevy trucks had this problem and gm never did anything about it......... another thing, swirling come from one of two things.......bad rubout job on a clearcoat, or poor washing habbits....

just my 2 cents though and good luck wit toyota

05 tcm xb

engifineer

03-05-2005, 11:06 PM

If it's not a defect then how come every other god damn car on the road doesn't need to be repainted after a month ?????? I can't believe any of you would say this is NORMAL. Could it happen to any car? Sure. But does it? Nope. And is this normal for a new car? No way Jose!

Yours MAY be an actual defect if it really that bad... depending on how the paint defects were caused. I have never seen a car that did not get paint chips from rocks and such. As far as the swirls... try having it professionally detailed to see if that helps. Many times the swirls are caused by the initial detailing of the vehicle. If the person did not buff the car correctly, swirls can be created. See if a good detail shop can buff them out. My tC is at 9500 miles and has no rock chips, and I live in Minneapolis, home of terrible roads :-) Try hard to work with the dealer (or a different dealer if yours will not at least try to work with you) to get it detailed or corrected.

danb

03-09-2005, 09:47 PM

another thing, swirling come from one of two things.......bad rubout job on a clearcoat, or poor washing habbits....

I'd just like to add... the car dusters do the same thing. I remeber seeing one lady come into my detail shop after she used one religiously for a year. The car looked like it was covered in spider webs.

Putting a good wax on the car regularly can also help prevent it a bit too.

jolsen30041

03-09-2005, 10:44 PM

I have 762 miles on my xb with black sand pearl....Ive got swirl marks all over the doors and rear hatch....

I washed it three times at a hand car wash.... rediculous...

Ive owned it for two weeks....

xnevergiveinx

03-09-2005, 10:44 PM

i don't have any chips yet, however i did notice a decent amount of swirls on my hood from the first time i washed it by hand, granted it was my fault, but i washed it carefully, i never had to worry about scratches with my old corolla, scions have weak paint

smash

03-10-2005, 01:47 PM

personally I don't have an issue with swirl marks.. i believe that's involved with what you use to wash your car. the '01 Jetta I had had gorgeous rich black german paint on it and got swirl marks all over it from one wash-- really just goes to show some brushes/pads/squigies/car washes/etc. can be rough on any paint!

engifineer

03-10-2005, 02:06 PM

dctennis10

03-14-2005, 02:57 PM

i've tried to touch up the first one...
http://petitcoeurs.net/car/IMG_1122.jpg
http://petitcoeurs.net/car/IMG_1124.jpg
http://petitcoeurs.net/car/IMG_1125.jpg

SCI_TC_GUY

03-14-2005, 03:15 PM

did you use a toothpick for the touchup??? that's what i'm going to try...

dctennis10

03-14-2005, 03:25 PM

yup, i just did the first coat like 45 mins ago, i have to put on a few more cuz its pretty deep

xBino

03-16-2005, 11:23 PM

haha... and the dealer tried to get me to buy the "special paint protection" thingie for $800 when I got mine.

if they can't get the paint right, how're they going to get the protective coat right?

romper145

03-17-2005, 01:20 AM

so how did arbitration go?

daveman235

03-17-2005, 02:44 AM

YEAH HOW DID IT GO, IM DYING TO KNOW. I just saw this forum now, i was gonna tell u, that u should of gotten a lawyer. Just for intimidation. EEh whatever, just a thought. well i hope to God that some good came out of this arbitration. Maybe this case will be one that will effect all scion drivers, or the future of the paint on all toyotas. I hope so. well let us no. :-)

Digital_Infiniti

03-17-2005, 04:01 AM

xnevergiveinx

03-17-2005, 05:01 AM

kinda sucks, i don't have any defects yet, but i looked at my car in the sun today. it's got swirls in the clearcoat. i didn't cause them, because i don't swirl anything when i was my car, and they are in an area that wouldn't be worth swirling motion anyways, right above the windows in the paint, but they are all over.

reason why i have them, they washed my car at the dealership before they gave it to me, they don't have a touchfree car wash...

smash

03-17-2005, 02:48 PM

!! Update !!

The hearing went well yesterday.. the arbitrator was an older gentleman who was very nice and seemed to actually care about what I had to say. The Toyota rep was decent as well, a bit rude at times but she was just trying to prove her point I suppose. Here's how it went down..

1) We all sat down.. myself, the arbitrator, the Toyota rep and the Leesburg Toyota manager in a conference room.
2) I was told to present my case- which I did.
- Logs upon logs from SL showing what a widespread issue this paint is
- Statement from body shop describing "excessive paint chipping and fade spots beneath paint resulting in the need for a repaint of front end of the car.. unusual for a car of such age."
- Pages of TSB's and "recalls" or cases handled by auto manufacturers in which paint was found to be faulty for chipping or peeling and having been applied improperly- dealer agreed to repaint/rebuy the car. This was the case for the Mazda RX-7, many of the Dodge Rams and countless Fords throughout the years.
- Logs from SL where two different Scion dealers confirm tC paint colors SSM and IIP will be changed to two different paint codes (same colors however) for the '06 lineup.
- Statement from myself somewhat along the lines of "I am a Marketing major and we have studied the Scion brand. Scion's target market is the youth of this country. The goal of the Scion brand is to get younger Americans to essentially buy in to the Toyota market, and eventually work their way up to Lexus. I feel that based on my experiences with the brand and speaking with many others about their experiences as well, that Toyota is not treating these young adults with the courtesy and respect they deserve. There is an obvious paint problem on these cars and there is a fine line where Toyota must ask themselves if the paint chipping, although clearly stated as not being covered under warranty, becomes an issue that is so bad and so obvious that it must be dealt with in one way or another. I for one can most confidently say that unless several major factors change I will not be a repeat Toyota buyer and will do my best to keep everyone I know from owning one. I understand that impact chips are not covered under warranty- what I'm saying is that when it comes into question that there is a problem with the paint at hand and as a result the paint is being ruined so quickly there is apparently a problem, and suffice it to say Toyota is only alienting current and potential buyers by dealing with the problems in such a brash manner."

.... I went on about other issues but I could seriously write a book about this and don't feel the need to waste all of your time.

The Toyota rep didn't have much of a case other than that "chips aren't covered under warranty" and she brought in a picture that diagrammed a common chip but looked more like an amoeba or some sort of parasite under a microscopic lens.. didn't do much to help her either. She tried to say that all the other proof I'd brought in of past paint "recalls" from other manufacturers was not relevant because they were "not Toyota".. she obviously missed the entire point there.. (I was starting to wonder how bright this lady actually was..)

She then tried to dismiss all the logs I'd brought in from SL, saying they were merely conversations between people. However, I told her if Toyota cared at all about their customers they would do well to read those logs and understand that there is more of a problem than they care to admit. Furthermore "blog" sites are becoming a major factor in companies' decisions.. there have been several articles on the matter this year alone in magazines such as Time and Newsweek. Finally, she of course had no idea and no comment about the paint code changes, and upon inspection of the car itself brought out a magnetic paint thickness meter which you stick on the hood and pull up really quicky.. its supposed to give an approximate reading of the thickness of the paint, she said it should be anywhere from 4-6.5 mils. She said it appeared my paint's thickness was around 5.5 mils. I couldn't even see the numbers because you had to pull the meter up so quickly.. I think she confused the arbitrator a bit as well. I managed to comment that the meter in no way shape or form could test to see if the clearcoat or paint was applied or mixed properly, that it didn't really show much at all. She responded it was merely a "general measure" of the paint's thickness.

At any rate, I feel I did all I could and presented the strongest case possible without the aid of legal counsel- which would have been ridiculous for me to do seeing as it would cost me more to get a lawyer than to repaint the front end of my car. The arbitrator said he would be making his decision in the next 1-10 days and I will be getting a letter from NCDS with the ruling. It's hard to say at this point whether they will find in my favor or not; the scope of this case is large and very widespread and could potentially have a lot of repercussions for Toyota if they do find in my favor. Needless to say I won't be shocked and destroyed if they don't. All I can say is that I tried my best and brought it to their immediate attention that there is a large problem with the paint on these vehicles, whether or not they choose to admit it.

Digital_Infiniti

03-17-2005, 03:52 PM

Smash,

Thanks for all of your hard work on this and we wish you the best. While its hard to debate about the chips... there is definitely something wrong causing the bubbles and the peeling.

Pimpe_Ok

03-17-2005, 04:06 PM

:nails: pleas pleas pleas pleas keep us up to date on waht happens waht is said and what not..... when u get the letter pleas pleas pleas let us know what it says..... i hope we get this problem solved and delt with soon......... :pray: thank you for all your hard work and help.... :pray: my prayers are with you and with the hole scion comunetty.

pdrizzle

03-17-2005, 04:13 PM

Awesome job, Smash... I wish everyone with a problem had the leadership and fight in them that you have displayed in this matter.

dctennis10

03-17-2005, 04:39 PM

i second that pdrizzle. thank you and good job Smash

daveman235

03-17-2005, 06:40 PM

Awesome job, Smash... I wish everyone with a problem had the leadership and fight in them that you have displayed in this matter.

I agree, keep up the good work, and dont stop fighting. YOU ROCK !!! and your my hero....seriously u are. I hope you turn this around. I hope by the time the 06 tC comes out the problem will be fixed so i can go one. Thank u smash, your really making a difference. :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Pimpe_Ok

03-17-2005, 07:28 PM

XBman

03-17-2005, 10:41 PM

http://www7.plala.or.jp/igloo/picture/pen/Thank%20you!!.gif

http://www.thepccp.org/cd/album2003/group%20thank%20you.jpg
**This is all the people from SL**
:bow: :bow: :bow:

KevinxB

03-18-2005, 01:42 AM

Smash, was the rep Kimbra something? She was the rep I went to arbitration with. Not much pleasant about her...

Sounds like you were much more prepared than me. Best of luck.

TheFly

03-18-2005, 10:42 PM

http://www.thepccp.org/cd/album2003/group%20thank%20you.jpg
**This is all the people from SL**
:bow: :bow: :bow:

They certainly look a bit young to be driving. Even with Toyota's "youth" target market. :P

engifineer

03-18-2005, 10:58 PM

So the car has been ordered and now I have this to look forward to.

My dad works for multiple car companies as part of their warranty claims investigation departments. The biggest claim is paint. He will tell all of you that a chip from an object is not covered and is deemed normal wear and tear.

The circles, bubbles, and peeling are defects and will be covered if you take the car in. Rust is only covered in certain areas... if you live in snow or near the beach... the adjuster will say its normal.

He says Toyota tends to be reasonable with their paint claims and you need to call your dealership and have it looked at as soon as possible. In most arbitrations, he goes on behalf of the car company. If he saw the evidence like on here... he would be in our favor.

Rust is covered. The scion comes with a 5year/60,000 mile corrosion warranty. If the metal is perforated by rust, they cover it. Does not matter where you live. I made sure of all of this before buying mine here in MN, due to the salt in the winter.

And don't worry too much about your paint on your new car. From what I have seen the paint issues are few and far between. Mine looks great, no chips bubbles, swirls, etc and I have 9500 miles, including two 1200 mile road trips. I am curious to know when the vehicles with the paint issues were purchased. May have been a bad production run.

engifineer

03-18-2005, 11:04 PM

xBino

03-18-2005, 11:13 PM

Honestly, how much more could it have cost Toyota to do the job right the first time, than now to deal with countless angry owners who want to settle this?

Shame on you Toyota... :no:

smash

03-19-2005, 08:44 PM

Thank you all for your kind and generous comments.. I'm just doing what I think is right- mama always taught me to fight for what I believe in!

Keep your fingers crossed and I will definitely post on here the second I receive a letter from NCDS.

dctennis10

03-20-2005, 02:18 AM

we cant thank you enough! I wouldn't have known who to contact or how to go about bringing that up with Toyota. Hopefully this will turn out well.

tcmiami

03-21-2005, 04:19 AM

I have a flint mica tc, less than 5k, and there is at least 10 nicks/scratches on the front bumper, and i hand wash/dry my car every week, and i haven't driven behind any rock trucks, and today i also noticed 2 hours after washing my car, that a spot that was perfect now had two scratches all the way to the bare metal, this next to my hood and the metal part of the fender, so the front now looks like it's been to war

blackstallion

03-21-2005, 06:10 AM

Wow! sounds like a serious issue. Maybe I should cancel my order for new black xB.

I just booked a new scion xB at the dealer's. They didn't have the color I prefer (black) in the lot. So, I will have to wait until they get in their next shipment in about 2 weeks. I was so excted to get my new xB. But after reading the above comments about paint job, I'm having second thought. Maybe should opt for scion and get a civic or mazda.

Sciond

03-21-2005, 07:07 AM

dctennis10

03-21-2005, 03:32 PM

no no no its not as terrible as it seems. not everyone has these problems. go for the Scion.

RedheadedStepChild

03-21-2005, 03:52 PM

Thanks for speaking out on this issue for us all. I hope they rule in your favor. Keep us posted.

w1ngzer0

03-21-2005, 04:04 PM

more problems with this company... great.. :doh:

I own a 90 240sx with 200,000 miles and the paint is still there. No rust from dents, and i have lots of dents :P . I live in the mountians where there is every road hazard you can think of. A rock wouldn't scrape the paint off the car. It would dent it.... and fly behind you. Hell even my crunched quater panel has paint on it.

blackstallion

03-26-2005, 02:38 PM

aight! I will get the xB, but is there anything I can use to protect the paint?

timinaz

03-26-2005, 05:47 PM

aight! I will get the xB, but is there anything I can use to protect the paint?

Get Rockblocker for your front end...

mypursuit

03-26-2005, 07:06 PM

good job smash

hotbox05

03-26-2005, 07:18 PM

mypursuit

03-26-2005, 07:34 PM

i had swirls on the hood the second time I washed it...

mypursuit

03-26-2005, 07:35 PM

...oh yeah and a huge rock chip from a dump truck the second day i had my xb

smash

04-04-2005, 03:11 PM

Okay well according to NCDS who I just got off the phone with, my decision was mailed out to me on March 21st. Seeing as this is already the worst day of my life I can't say that I'm surprised at this news. Lost in the mail? Of course! Why not!

The lady on the phone was a total b----. No need for that, either. She said she would re-mail the package out to me.. that no she could not tell me over the phone what the decision was.. and that she would also fax a copy of the decision to my office-- at what time today? She didn't know, of course. Just some time today, maybe.

I will be freakin' glad when this entire ordeal is overwith!!

smash

04-04-2005, 06:55 PM

!! UPDATE !!

SUMMARY OF REPRESENTATION: (My Rep was Kimbra Marsh, in fact).

"The parties presented and I reviewed and considered the following evidence: Customer Claim Form with Customer correspondence, vehicle service tickets, an estimate from Classic Automotive, Inc., internet postings regarding paint problems and vehicle repair history summary.

The position of the Customer was the her new vehicle experienced paint chips within the first 2 months of ownershipr and more have developed since. She stated that there is one "moisture fade spot". The Customer stated that she believes the chips are from road rocks, but the deterioration of the chip indicates a defect in the paint. This was not actually my point-- my point was that the car was chipping too excessively and too rapidly to be considered normal- but apparently the arbitrator didn't get it.

The Customer wants the entire front-end of the vehicle repainted.

The position of the Manufacturer was that the condition of the vehicle is, indeed, paint chips caused from road debris and is not covered under the warranty. Duh. The Toyota Rep stated that only defects in the paint are covered. This is the part where I tried to point out that there is a fine line between defective and normal paint-- I still feel to this day that the Silver Streak Mica paint has some sort of defect in it-- either in the way it was mixed or applied-- however I had no way of physically proving this, obviously.

At the request of the Customer, an inspection was conducted as part of the hearing. During the inspection, the paint thickness was measured by a tool provided by the Toyota Representative. Again, here I pointed out to the arbitrator that this tool in no way can accurately measure if the paint was mixed and/or applied correctly to the car.

DECISION:
After reviewing the complaint(s) and hearing the proofs and arguments of the parties and taking into consideration the applicable manufacturer's new vehicle warranty, and the applicable warranty including the applicable State Statute commonly referred to as the "Lemon Law", and after due deliberations, I find and Award as follows:

The Customer's request for the entire front-end of the vehicle to be repainted is hereby DENIED.

I have reached this conclusion because the Customer did not present compelling evidence of a defect in the paint at the hearing."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

So that's it, folks. I tried my best; I honestly had no other way other than spending thousands of dollars to have the paint scientifically tested, of proving a defect in the paint-- or at least this is how Toyota and the Arbitrator felt. Looks like anything short of an extremely large-scale class action suit (which is very improbable) is going to sway them. I tried! Sorry to everyone who had their hopes up as much as I did!

kgzero

04-04-2005, 08:16 PM

Damn.

Thanks for all of your hard work, and don't get yourself down. We all appreciate what you did. Again, thank you.

blankz

04-04-2005, 08:26 PM

damn, i think i have the same "moisture fade spots" on my car too. but the dealership said its just water spots, or moisture that was trapped until the tape or whatever bs he told me. he suggested i would bring it back and let him apply a heat gun to it for a little and it should be fine...... and btw i have a silver streak mica....

sciontc2005

04-04-2005, 08:35 PM

honestly if you cannot handle the rock chips and etc. then dont drive it, tow it around

TimmyT

04-04-2005, 08:37 PM

I have swirl marks on my tC from washing also.. I don't understand why you guys would think this would be covered in the warrenty. If the paint was fine until YOU did something to it. even wash. then its YOUR fault and would not be covered in the warrenty. If you have chips and you are complaining about the integrety of the paint around the chips. its your fault, cause there the defect is caused directly by the compromise of the paint from an outside influence. The "moisture fade spots" is a different story. The factory paint should be able to resist that kind of damage for at least the first few years. but as for swirl marks and chips, you are gonna have to live with. Now if you NEVER washed your car or drove it, and the paint swirled or chipped you could get that covered.

04whtbox

04-04-2005, 08:40 PM

i have some paint coming off of my rear underbody spoiler.and a few chips about 8 on the hood .

owenbaier

04-04-2005, 08:47 PM

Here we go again with Timmy. I guess it is my fault if I wash my car like I would any number of cars and it creates swirles in my xB, but not on any other car. Then it is my fault?? I shouldn't be responsible for crap paintjobs when I paid $15k for the car it. And I don't care if that is cheap for a car. It is supposed to be a Toyota product. And to think that right after I bought it they tried to push me this $3,000 paint protection coverage on me. Sounds like a raquet to me. I personally would not have bought my xB if I had known this earlier. :tap: So was it ok if I found out afterwards that if the exterior was egg shells and it broke when I was washing it? If so, then the myth that all warranties are junk is no longer a myth.

Satmax

04-04-2005, 08:53 PM

TimmyT

04-04-2005, 08:59 PM

You are totally off base. It is your fault that you want to wash the car you like. The point of a warrenty is to cover factory defects. Not consumer habbits. Thats why if you are racing and there is a malfunction, it isn't covered. Thats like someone arguing "is it my fault i like to drive fast and shift aggresivly? I did that in other cars, so why wouldn't they cover this car in the warrenty." If something goes wrong with the car that is directly related to something you did. its not covered in the warrenty. and if you are sooo enthusiastic about keeping your car looking pristine (wich it isn't, people are gonna have to come to realize this) you should have gotten the 3k protectant. I did on my tC cause I live in california where the sun will just bake the crap out of your paint, and I live in apartments, so scratches scare me. Also people ride in my car, and accidents do happen so protecting the interior is important also.

TimmyT

04-04-2005, 09:04 PM

Yes I would say. You guys are dillusional if you think your car is gonna stay like new. Soap has abbrasives in it, any soap. Did you buy your cars to drive, or for show? If it is a daily driver you people should just deal with it, Bugs can chip paint, sun oxidizes paint, hail chips paint, washing your car scratches paint, people touching your car scratches paint, There is absolutly no way you are gonna keep it like new and yah it sucks but thats the entire reason why your car depreciates so much as soon as you drive it off the lot. if you bought it for show keep it in your lil eco bubbles, and carry it in a trailer to the shows.

TimmyT

04-04-2005, 09:11 PM

People should take responsibility for their own actions. I don't like "Pass the buck" type people. I love my car, i would like to keep it like new, but I know that is not going to happen, and when i noticed swirl marks on my paint from washing yah i was upset, but I didn't go running to the dealer demanding them to repaint my car, NOT that it would matter. Cause a week later when you wash your car again, and the same stuff happens cause they are using the exact same paint You are gonna go and demand them to repaint it again? IF there is a genuine cause for a recall, they are going to have to develop a new paint and at that time would be the only logical time to take your car for a new paint job.

owenbaier

04-04-2005, 09:15 PM

You are totally off base. It is your fault that you want to wash the car you like. .

So you say that they were ok to design a car that cannot be washed without screwing up the appearance of it? This is the only car that I have had that cannot stand up to a washing.

As for abrasives in soaps. Unless you are using a soap that was powder (soda ash or sodium tripoly based). The surfactants and wetting agents in car wash soaps are specifically designed to be 'non' abrasive (sodium xylene sulfonate..etc), (I know way to much about soap BTW).

I understand your arguement as it applies directly to the warranty verbage. But as for standard practice in automobile manufacturing...no way does it apply.

I agree to disagree. Good discussion though.

TimmyT

04-04-2005, 09:25 PM

That is totally what I am saying. It is wrong that they painted the car with cheap paint, but you aren't gonna beat the legality of the warrenty. Instead of focusing on trying to get your car repainted under warrenty. You really should be working on getting a recall to fix the paint problem.

smash

04-04-2005, 11:15 PM

Okay, that's all well and good, except for the fact that they only issue real "recalls" for safety issues, which this is obviously not.

Plus-- my bad, I didn't realize normal driving on normal suburban roads at safe distances from other vehicles was considered a "bad habit" that the manufacturer should have to take responsibility for.

The only thing I believe Scion should take responsibility for is the crappy paint used on these vehicles. As stated before, I have no other problems with the car- it's been great. But based on primarily mine, but also others, experiences with previous cars there is evidently a problem with the paint being "prone" to excessive chipping. That's all I'm saying. No one ever said they didn't expect a car not to chip at all.

It's obvious that one person can't change an entire corporation in this case-- as I've also said it appears the only thing that would have some sort of weight against the company would be something large scale along the lines of a class action suit. Personally, I feel I've spent enough time and resources on this case alone and that a class action suit would be pointless unless I was able to find a large group of people ready to organize something. I've done my part :P

XBman

04-05-2005, 04:38 AM

http://www.imgag.com/product/180278/2014232d.gif

http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~asenger/Crew%20Only/Thank%20You%20Mr%20Bush.jpg

http://www.cfdonline.org/images/thank_you.jpg

I have wayy too much time on my hands

RockBlocker

04-06-2005, 04:50 PM

aight! I will get the xB, but is there anything I can use to protect the paint?

Get Rockblocker for your front end...only works if you have virgin paint , if theres allready chips it's pretty worthless

While I would agree that if you have excessive paint chipping that our products might be a realible alternative to the solution. However, we do get a lot of customers that have a few chips or even cars years old that are in pretty good shape as customers. If the chips are minimal you can touch them up beforehand if you so desire before the installation of our products.

This is only a suggestion and/or alternative to the problem since it looks like that there will be no relief from the dealer.

Of course there are other alternatives such as a black bra, bug delfector, not driving the car or just live with it. The choice is always the consumer on what they will and will not live with.

Chad

Lynch_Scion_CT

04-08-2005, 07:39 PM

If the person did not buff the car correctly, swirls can be created. See if a good detail shop can buff them out.

Actually, when a car is buffed... swirls are always created... It's impossible to avoid them. When you bring it through an automatic car wash, whether brushless or cloth or whatever, it strips the wax off and all you see is the swirl marks from buffing it... If you were to re-wax the car after bringing it through the car wash, or whenever you see swirls, it would cover them -or get rid of them- however you want to look at it...

Basically, when you start to see swirl marks, you need to wax your car again.
It's not a defect from the buffer or an issue with the paint.

Black cars especially need to be waxed often

Lynch_Scion_CT

04-08-2005, 07:48 PM

Okay, now I went back and read the entire thread... I hadn't realized what a widespread issue this was, I thought it was only about the swirlmarks and other small issues...

I apologize for sticking my nose into something I know nothing about.

Sciond

04-10-2005, 01:31 AM

more people need to fight Scion on this issue..make them spend time and money fighting the issue so it gets expensive for them..then maybe we can make some headway

UnFocused

04-11-2005, 06:27 AM

If "normal" car paint is not suppost to chip, then why does 3M make "paint protection film"

DING, DING ,DING - you cannot deny the laws of commom sense! And painted surface will chip if you hit it hard enough. If you drop your cell phone on the ground and chip it, are you going to take NOKIA to arbitration for not making a strong enough case too?- In my eyes it is the same logic.

When my windsheild was cracked by a rock, it was not considered the fault of the other driver...why? because it is called part of drivng on a public road!!

Somnambulated

04-11-2005, 06:35 AM

Paint chips. Doesn't matter how well it is applied. Yes, Toyotas have thin paint. You should know that when you purchase one of their cars.

I didn't, but ideally one would have researched that before buying the car.

If the paint bubbled and peeled off your car, I could understand why someone would be upset, even furious.

But if your car is chipping because rocks are hitting it at 60mph...

I have a chip on my hood I'm going to look at getting fixed tomorrow morning. I'll let you all know how it goes, and how visable it is after the repair.

SleeperXB

04-11-2005, 07:43 AM

one thing i noticed from the aribtration letter at the end it denied for the repaint of the front end...why not ask for a ruling on further research to be done on the paint on the cars?????? just a thought because than you really aren't asking for them to just benefit yourself and no harm done i think you would have a better chance

smash

04-11-2005, 01:48 PM

well.. it's too late for that now. that could be something done in small claims court i guess but like i said, i'm done with this for now. unless someone else makes a move i'm tired of fighting with Scion over it. i'm just not going to buy another toyota again :P

Solarxb20

04-11-2005, 02:09 PM

you deserve to drive a ford fiesta or a chevy lumina or something if you think the tC sucks.

I had a festiva. 47 mpg and I sold it to my bf's brother. That car could crush a TC in a turn (Think short, wide, and low wheelbase). They are fun little cars... You would have to own one to know though. The only reason I got rid of it is because I don't have the room to fix it if something seriously went wrong with it. Warrenties are a good thing ;)

NYCxB

04-11-2005, 03:23 PM

smash

04-11-2005, 05:53 PM

very, very well spoken and i couldn't agree more with you.

Rip_Van_Winkle

04-12-2005, 03:30 AM

what colors do you people have that have experienced the chip/swirls?

or is it pretty much every color for the xB?

engifineer

04-12-2005, 03:57 AM

Thanks for the effort on getting this problem documented in the court system. More of us should do it to get this dissatisfaction on record in all 50 states. As for arbitration cases they are stacked in favor of the manufacturer and have been since its inception (9/1/84).

If you won, Toyota would have had all their profits on the Scion models eaten up and then some to repaint the roughly 150,000 cars they have sold and then re-do the ones they haven't.

Unfortunately, Scion gives the appearance that you are getting so much more for your money, but in fact you are getting exactly what you pay for.

Don't be a victim of a marketing capaign that makes you believe you belong to some elite class. These cars sell for $14k, anyone can get one. ANYONE.

They're nothing more than bic lighters and while I love my xB, there is no way the quality of this thing matches other cars I've owned. Any american car under $15k has far better paint, etc. than what we got on these Scions.

Hell, my dad paid $17K for a new Oldsmobile Alero, has 19k on it and not a single scratch in the paint, came with a sunroof, alarm, the works, etc. Yes I know it doesn't have a WOW factor at all, but lets face it, neither will the xB in a few years when everyone is familiar with it (look at the MINI).

Drive it, have fun, don't invest too heavily in it, let others know that the workmanship is poor and then sell it for a real car when you get out of college.

you couldnt be more wrong about american cars and their paint.... chevy, ford and dodge are NOTORIUS for horrible paint!!! Every seen a 2-3 yr old cavalier, sunfire, neon, mustang etc without big peices of paint missing? Most of them had paint issues. Granted, they dont chip... they just flake off! And I wouldnt bash the scion quality just yet... I have been very impressed so far.. especially compared to all of the american cars I have owned (and I would much rather be able to buy american... ). 10,000 miles and I am happy with the engineering on mine... and I am VERY picky. And when you think of it logically, the tC is not much cheaper than other cars like it.... they just sell them at bottom price to start with... you can get most cars that cost a few thousand more for the same price if you talk them down.... it is all the way they are marketed. Its like trading in (generally a rip off!!!!) To prove that point.. go in and talk a salesman down on a car until you get their bottom dollar price... THEN offer a trade and see how much you get.

NYCxB

04-12-2005, 05:31 PM

engifineer

04-13-2005, 12:42 AM

I'm not gonna argue with you when I have experience with this.

I have a Scion xB 2005 with less than 2500 miles.

If you look at it the wrong way it scratches and is the absolute most unforgiving paint job I have ever had on any car American or foriegn. My Dad had a Fiat 128 that didn't have a scratch on it for years.

Scion skimps on the clear coat to the point that if you want to keep this toy for more than four seasons, you best be friends with Earl Schieb.

Not saying your particular scion does not have a paint issue, I am arguing your point on other cars issues..... go to the link below (it is just one that I found on a quick search) that will show you that the problem is industry wide and has been for many years

http://www.autosafety.org/getautodefect.php?scid=99

Toasterbox05

08-24-2005, 12:56 AM

FACE IT ALOT OF CARS HAVE PAINT PROBLEMS>>>>>>i have a few chips on my frontend from a 2100 mile trip across the country.......my worst chip is in my back bumer from dropping a drill on it, although the paint is thin, i started applying liquid glass to my paint one week after i bought it, and i am really happy with my paint,, i feel bad for all of you who cant understand that chips happen, and you have to deal with it, no suprise to me that the arbitration claims were denied............sorry, maybe you all that have paint "problems" that are that "bad" should just trader in and get something that you think has no paint problems, although you wont know for a short time.......

Ashe_WCM

08-24-2005, 10:59 AM

If you have nothing constructive to add, Shut up.

Smoses799

09-28-2005, 11:28 PM

scion paint sucks! thats the bottemline. The way we fix this is by moding the hell out of your tc, then take it to the dealership for all the repairs and vouch up and down that your car is completely stock with the exception for any parts the dealership may have installed. It will usually take them about 2 or 3 trips before they realize that they didnt install your CAI, headers, exhaust, bmw 5 series headlamps, led lights, tint, wheels, grounding kit, vertical doors, stereo system, leather seats, short shifter, or the Toyota Sucks sticker on the back. Atleast this was my experience. I cant wait to take it in with a ZPI turbo stage 1 kit sometime next year and tell them "what are you talking about??? this is trd supercharger i bought from you guys" "its a turbo?" "so you guys stole and cheated from me... wtf" "i want my supercharger" ... god that is going to be great.

moral: enjoy the car. if you have problems with it and the dealer is difficult. Then fix the problem and wage a personal war on the dealership.

47 "courtesy" washes and 1 "courtesy" maf sensor and counting...

tat2dude25

01-31-2006, 04:26 AM

My paint is fine. Mine was wrecked in the front end. The rest of the untouched paint is great. I never use automatic carwashes or horsehair brushes or towles to dry. Just a spray it yourself car wash, that = no swirl marks. Dirt gets in those thing and you are actually scratching the clear coat. Even the expensive chamois they sell. Paint chips happen. Road debris, period. had an 01' Celica that was paint chip hell. I think it has to do with design of the car more. My xB has no paint chips what so ever. Only had one before it was wrecked. It was road debris bouncing down a highway and hit my front bumper. Totally not Scions Fault!

xDyingForYourLovex

02-06-2006, 01:53 AM

i have a paint chip on the hood where it is on the edge of where you would open the hood. it isn't big but it isn't from a rock, but it is starting to rust a little. Is there anyway i can buy touch up paint from the dealership for it? if so, how much does that cost???

tat2dude25

02-07-2006, 12:59 AM

Yes you can buy touch up paint. Not sure but its probably like $20-$30,"LAST TIME I BOUGHT TOUCH UP FROM TOYOTA". If its rusting I would go to a body shop. If you touch that up you are just painting over rust and it will keep going. Minor paint chips should be hit up immediately.

tat2dude25

02-22-2006, 12:31 AM

I know this thread is about dead but I visited many body shops recently that told me Toyota paint is some of the strongest on the market? Dont know for sure but thats the opinion of many body shops in the Columbus Ohio area. They may also use different formula on Scion though.

xDyingForYourLovex

02-22-2006, 02:14 AM

i ended up getting a free bottle of touch up paint from a local body shop since i got my new bumper from there (from a hit and run) but i am first going to bring it to my dealership before i apply it to my chips. but it was nice getting a free bottle :)

vintage42

03-01-2006, 12:01 AM

i have a paint chip... Is there anyway i can buy touch up paint from the dealership for it? if so, how much does that cost???

See http://www.brandsports.com/by_make.php?make=Scion&Submit2=Go

Carnauba

03-04-2006, 01:37 AM

I here everyone raising kane about the scion paint but i don't understand i have a 2005 xb blue onyx pearl 16000 miles and i am very pickey It has normal pecks on the front but for the rest it is flawless I use p21s wax religously and wash it every week and you will be luckey if there is another vehicle on the road as shiny. Mabye I got luckey?

handlebarz

03-11-2006, 02:57 PM

There were lawsuits filed against Apple by people who felt their Ipod Nanos/Shuffles "aren't made of materials that can withstand every day use". How come they can win bulls***t like that?

handlebarz

03-11-2006, 02:59 PM

Also, is this paint problem just for that grey mica color?

xDyingForYourLovex

03-11-2006, 09:01 PM

No, not just for mica, i have a sw and i have paint chips.

SciontCya

03-12-2006, 01:52 AM

After reading and following these "scion paint sux" threads, I'm not buying into it.
My FM tC's paint is great - and I just banged the door into a rock wall and dented it and the paint was still perfect (fortunately I can get this fixed easily)

I have owned lots of cars over the years, and the tC's paint is excellent.

Scott

-JoKeR-

03-12-2006, 08:30 AM

i was opening my hood the other day and my alarm remote kinda rubbed the hood and left a nice little scratch...i wasnt to happy about that and started questioning the paint job as well

xnevergiveinx

03-13-2006, 01:50 AM

i've put scratches through my paint down to metal by walking to close to my car and having my fingernail graze it

SciontCya

03-13-2006, 02:01 AM

i've put scratches through my paint down to metal by walking to close to my car and having my fingernail graze it

Oh come on. That's just insane - unless you're a T-Rex with claws for nails.

mfbenson

03-13-2006, 02:05 AM

Just to throw in my $0.02... my tC has 13,000 miles and about two dozen dings in the paint.

My xB has 6000 miles and the paint is still flawless, although it doesn't seem to hold a shine as well as the tC does.

Intuitively it would seem like the xB would be worse, since its less aerodynamic, but in my case its the tC that has the worse problems...

filmnews

03-13-2006, 11:31 PM

I have swirl marks all over my 2006 BSP TC. I have had them on the car since the first week. I have tried to wax it out, but it does not work. The paint on the TC's suck. My friends TC has the same problem.

SciontCya

03-14-2006, 12:16 AM

It couldn't be that you guys did something wrong?
I must be the luckiest guy around because my paint doesn't suck.

Spiderbox

03-14-2006, 09:47 PM

my xb is nasty has swirl marks all over, couple scratches here and there from what i have no clue but it looks like something small and thin caused it. not to mention weird white marks that wont come off even after i wash it and give it a good rub down.

cmdxb

03-15-2006, 01:03 PM

bluenjsciontc

03-15-2006, 01:11 PM

paint is paint

my camaro you could beam a rock at it though and it wouldnt chip ....maybe a sledge hammer to the hood would do some damage but other than that that paint wouldnt chip for the life of you

we tried to key it and it lightly scratched it lol :rofl:

but other than that my camaro was a 86 ...so pretty much your beat! new paint is crap thats all i have to say and my scion has 2 scratches on my front bumper/front driverside fender

one is from a piece of ice that caught my front bumper the other is from a rock that skipped off of 295 and hit it

other than that my car is pretty much mint

2006 tc soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo i dunno what to tell you guys

sp0t

03-17-2006, 06:17 AM

yup. the paint sucks. period.

cjastacio

03-17-2006, 07:01 AM

Don't want to flame anyone but do any of you do anything other than wash your cars? There is a reason there are paint cleaners, polishers, and waxes out on the market. To take care of some the the problems you guys are experiencing. Just like anything else you get out of your paint what you put into it.

mfbenson

03-18-2006, 01:35 AM

^^^

I wash and polish (not wax) both my cars the same, and the tC has dings and the xB does not.

SciontCya

03-18-2006, 01:48 AM

^^^

I wash and polish (not wax) both my cars the same, and the tC has dings and the xB does not.

Well there's the proof... :relief:

cjastacio

03-18-2006, 02:12 AM

I was actually talking about the paint quality. Dings are an effect from rocks that hit the car, I don't think any paint job could hold up to rocks hitting it. Swirls and shine are something that could be cared for and fixed.

SciontCya

03-18-2006, 02:14 AM

^^^ That is a given...

xBster

03-19-2006, 01:01 AM

I have always been a "car-trader" only keep them for a year or two. I find the Scion paint to be no worse than the paint on my '04 F-150 I traded. In fact no worse than the paint on the last 6 cars and trucks I have had. They all scratched and chipped too easily IMO and all have had some flaws in the finishes. I just figure "they just don't make 'em like they used to". I have found the new waxes and protectors out now do a better job than they ever did before (due to the lesser finishes I suppose) at covering up the flaws. So I just wax the scratches, touch up the chips and move on. It IS frustrating to find more scratches or chips ( I count them..LOL) but I just don't think its worth all the extra stress and worry over something that is going to happen over time anyway.

SciontCya

03-19-2006, 01:03 AM

Put well, xBster.

xA_Factor

03-19-2006, 01:18 AM

"They don't make 'em like they used to", because the EPA has mandated less volatile chemicals in modern paint. Paint is just a little softer than it used to be. It's not the fault of the manufacturers.

Believe me, they could make paint pratically bullet-proof if it weren't for cost.....and the tree huggers.

xBster

03-19-2006, 01:37 AM

The humor in the "Tree Huggers" reference, xB_Factor, is now that trees can grow healthier due to the more stringent EPA laws and regulations, We can't park under them because it will drip sap and permanantly damage our paint finishes.....LOL

mfbenson

03-20-2006, 12:10 AM

Swirls and shine are something that could be cared for and fixed.

Ok, as far as those are concerned the tC gets swirls if you're not careful, but they can be removed with careful cleaning, elbow grease, and a clay bar if push comes to shove. Swirls have not been a problem on the xB.

Shine, on the other hand, has been more of a problem on the xB than the tC. I think its because the xB has more flat surfaces on which water tends to not run off when it beads up, and then when the beads dry out they kill the shine. That's not necessarily the paint's fault, but a higher quality clearcoat would help.

PrivateTucker

03-26-2006, 04:13 AM

as old as this thread is, I can't help but agree the paint is bad, but I don't think it's all the paint. I believe a lot has to do with the surface it is applied to. Anyone press lightly on the body panels? They collapse under the lightest loads.

It also just seems that a person could fart towards these cars and blow a chip in it.

vintage42

03-26-2006, 01:14 PM

I've had my xB for a week and have completed applying paste wax by hand to most of it. So far the paint acts and looks OK to me.

xBster, where did you get that full front cover?

Spiderbox

04-04-2006, 01:39 PM

SciontCya

04-04-2006, 07:09 PM

You don't wipe paint with paper!

xA_Factor

04-04-2006, 09:29 PM

yesterday i replaced my license plate frames and i decided to wipe off some of the growth that had accumulated behind it with a tissue before putting the new one on. it left some really big scratches just from the tissue wipes.
It's not the tissue that caused the scratches.....it's the dirt and grime under the tissue.

Never dry wipe a car.

Darktitan

04-05-2006, 03:03 AM

First and foremost I can't believe I read the whole fricking thread! It seems that the ones saying get over it are the ones that really don't have paint issues!I thought that that's what it was about PAINT ISSUES not wow iwas lucky , maybe you're over
reacting. :tap: I've had a couple of new cars and eventhough I love my scion, it has the worst paint I've ever seen on a car-and yes you can scratch it with your fingernail!I'm taking my car to the dealership next week because like a sucker I bought the works when it came to warrenty and no your not going to tell me it's normal to scratch a brand new car with your finger! :no: BTW my car is a month and 1/2 old and has more "dings" than my ten year old corolla did!

smash

04-05-2006, 02:46 PM

haha.. good luck with that. sorry to inform you but no matter how much you paid them for any type of "paint protection" warranty, it will not cover "normal wear and tear", which to Scion, includes scratching from looking at the car the wrong way, or chipping due to excessive breathing on. best advice is to go out and pay to get a ClearBra why your paint still looks decent enough to do it.

vintage42

04-05-2006, 03:24 PM

... my scion, it has the worst paint I've ever seen on a car-and yes you can scratch it with your fingernail!... and no your not going to tell me it's normal to scratch a brand new car with your finger...

I use paste wax, and the paint is so slick that fingernails just skate around on it.

mfbenson

04-05-2006, 06:39 PM

scratching from looking at the car the wrong way, or chipping due to excessive breathing on.

:rofl:

So THAT's what's wrong with my hood... all those heavy breathers hanging around the front of my car...

deepfreezee232004

04-07-2006, 03:13 PM

for everyone on this thread you all need to go to the center for automotive safety or CAS website and file a complaint also go to the National highway traffic safety addministration website scions are listed under toyotas there and everyone needs to file an online complaint about the paint this is the only way you will ever get a recall on the car period. complaining to scion will not get them to budge an inch once there is enough people at the center for automotive safety they will start a class action lawsuit and demand a recall this is how firestone tires on fords got recalled and how the gas tanks in ford pinto's got replaced. You need to file a complaint online with both websites and it takes alot of people complaining just my 2 cents to help you all solve your issue's on scions faulty paint.

engifineer

04-07-2006, 03:23 PM

^^ paint is not exactly a safety issue. They wont do jack about that.

deepfreezee232004

04-07-2006, 03:53 PM

I understand your thoughts about paint not being a safety issue but they do successfully lititagate paint and other defect claims they have been responsible for numerous manufacturer paint recalls so please do what you want with my advice if you don't get the frequency of complaints pulled together you acomplish nothing and there you will and an attorney will be able to speak for everyone and hopefully get a recall or get everyones cars repainted that have valid claims. we also need to be contacting them about other issues as well. I am going to leave it at that but complaining on forums only goes so far complain to resources that might actually take action once they get enough complaints there is power in numbers. I'm off this thread but I think thats everyone's best chance.

mfbenson

04-08-2006, 09:17 PM

"Description :*

Incident Date :* Month_____Day___ Year_____
Was there a Fire : Yes No
Number of Failures: Property Damage : Yes No
Number of Deaths: Was there a Crash : Yes No
Number of Persons Injured: Reported to Police : Yes No
What source referred you to this site :"

^^^
From http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

which is the nhtsa complaint form. They are looking for things that lead to injury or death, or at least have the potential to cause injury or death. Paint ain't gonna cut it.

they have been responsible for numerous manufacturer paint recalls

Name one.

deepfreezee232004

04-09-2006, 01:15 AM

there is a more complete complaint form available at the center for automotive safety so let me educate you first in order to have a recall on any vehicle wether it be paint safety or otherwise there has to be a large frequency of complaints about the same issue most of the time people file their complaints with the center for automotive safety or CAS then once their are enough complaints an attorney will contact all the people who have filed complaints and file a class action suite sometimes you get a recall sometimes you don't. prime example chevorelet S-10 pickup trucks were litigated through CAS and a recall was issued to have certain year models and colors repainted. Cas litigates against NHTSA in most recall cases it weakens the NHTSA to have as many complaints on file with them as possible even though it does no good imediatly it is going to help once a class action suite starts. There are thousands of recalls that should be done that aren't because of lawyers prime example the ford focus all models the aibag propellant has been shown to ignite in accidents burning occupants of the car causing severe injury sometimes death this one is still being fought in court. Ford focus fuel pumps stall sporadically causing people to rapidly deselerate in traffic causing accidents this one is currently being apealed my point is that if you never file a complaint with CAS and let your voice at least be heard what good is it yes your car may have to be repainted by you save your receipt. yes scion is going to do anything they can to get out of paying for a new paint job. If you were to get a new paint job from the factory don't you think that one is going to peel right back off too and go through the whole process over. the NHTSA site is hard to navigate and there is a longer complaint form then this guy posted he chose selective excerpts but I would definently recomend a complaint with CAS if a recall is ever issued at least you'll get reimbursed for the paint job you had to pay for and you help other by letting your voice be heard. Also if a complaint form doesn't meet your needs what ever happened to writing a letter. I just tried to help ot doesn't really matter to me my paint is fine on my scion I was just letting people know how if they ever want to try to get a recall issued thats how you have to do it yeah it sucks and the system is screwed up but I didn't make it and guess what sometimes it works most of the time it doesn't but you never know until you try.

mfbenson

04-09-2006, 02:29 PM

let me educate you first

For someone who can't write without using run-on sentences, you're a fine one to talk.

chevy s10

Nice try. The recall was because the windshield adhesive was applied to the paint, and the paint would fail, causing the windshield to not stay in place.

1996 CHEVROLET S10 Defect Summary:
THE TOP COAT PAINT SEVERELY PEELS DUE TO OVERBAKING OF THE POWDER PRIMER PRIOR TO THE TOP COAT APPLICATION. SINCE THE WINDSHIELD PRIMER AND ADHESIVE ADHERE TO THE TOP COAT PAINT ONTHE WINDSHIELD OPENING FLANGE, THE WINDSHIELD DOES NOT COMPLY WITH FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARD NO. 212, "WINDSHIELD MOUNTING."

deepfreezee232004

04-15-2006, 04:23 AM

you must work for scion because you have no interest in helping owners there were many recalls on the S-10 I know I own one and the paint flaked off the rear quarter panel and the whole car was repainted under a recall which was seperate from the winshield you can criticize what I posted all you want. You can also criticize my dislexia all you want it doesn't bother me but the bottom line is if peopel ever want a chance in this world of a recall they have to file a complaint period end of story.Or if the car is under warranty take it to the dealership three times and file it under the lemaon law through an attorney. I also find this issue very pressing since toyota is now swithcing to water based paints. I wonder how long watercolors will last on a car. I would suggest being a constructive thinker and helping others. and posting your own original ideas instead of trashing others beacuse your too ignorant to come up with an intelligent post yourself.

SciontCya

04-15-2006, 04:30 AM

My wife is lysdexic, and she can write perfectly. (sorry, that's what she and others call it to make light of it) :)
Being lazy - that's what your posts are - is not the same. Dyslexia is not run-on sentances, ALL-CAPS typing, or otherwise unintelligable writing.
I don't mock your problems, but if you want to participate, please think of those whom you want reading your posts.
Long posts, like those above, are almost impossible to read and absorb on a computer screen.

Scott

cjastacio

04-15-2006, 04:56 AM

Call me nuts but at this point this subject should be locked. The posts aren't even on the subject anymore, there seem to be nothing but insults going on, and people have already posted many solutions to the problem. Advice should be taken and used if wished. If it's not what anyone wants to hear they should come up with their own solution and follow. It's amazing how a tight knit group like ours can be so rude at times just because someone hears something they don't want to.

deepfreezee232004

04-15-2006, 08:24 PM

I don't mean to sound rude in saying this but judging somone because of somone elses problems is wrong I am dislexic,I was also hit by a drunk driver 3 years ago an illegal immigrant with no license no insurance I've had six back operations,reconstructive surgery on my hands face and legs I am constantly being treated with duragesic which is 12 times stronger than morphine I alos have to take percocet for breakthrough pain topomax for uncontrollable leg spasms as well as cymbalta just to be able to walk. I have to take 14 other medications that do affect my writing all of them as well as my dislexia unfortunantly and I still work and don't live off the government and your tax dolars and if that makes me lazy then so be it. ever since I have joined this forum and I have helped alot of people because I've always been the best automotive technican I could be I also have a degree in computer repair and I am a journeyman smith with the american bladesmith society I have been criticized for my writing,grammer,punctuation the whole time I was just doing the best i could and trying to help other people and it really hurts my feelings that people are so critical of others when we should all be trying to help one another with our cars. we shouldn't be enemy against each other we should work together to fix our cars get recalls done if need be expase problems if there are any I exposed a problem with the 2006 XA spark plugs recently. I am reaching the point where I am going to leave the forums altogether because of nasty things said and private messages sent it's terrible. I've never said mean things about people. I just wanted to help people try to get a recall on their paint issues and they call me vulger names and send me vulger messages it's wrong. I'm new to this forum and it has already made me wish I didn't purchase a scion because of a select few. I thought CAS might coud help people. I'm sure there are some smaller forums with people that will accept good information regardles of my disabilities and handicapes I live off 350 dollars a month now I rebuild engines on donated cars for our local salvation army and habitat for humanity. I can't afford half the stuff you guys take for granted like big stereos and rims I want a set of rims for my car I'll get them four years from now thats how meticiously I have to save. My car was a gift. I used to make a very nice living building engines for honda I also buit race engines but my dream was taken from me and now one of my only outlets to people. is being taken away because people have a problem with my grammer so I'm leaving sice I'm lazy. thanks alot your words cut like a knife lock the thread somone else on some other site will appreciate the problems I've found on the car and now the problem I'm currently researching with the factory thermostats. Happy easter to all the good people out there.