Moderator's note: This discussion was split off from a thread in the Sponsored Sales forum at the request of the seller. The debate is about whether the strut bar being offered is the same as the one being offered on Ebay.

I have the one from ebay and its 100% perfect! Its look 100% exact to the one this guy is selling. Here are some pics. If you want more just ask and ill go take more.
Also the bar I got from ebay weights almost nothing. I have had it installed for about 4-5 months and there is no fade in the clear coat and no cracks in the carbon fiber.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/681000-681999/681378_114_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/681000-681999/681378_110_full.jpg

if u dont frekin like it, dont buy it. otherwise stop giving him a hard time. he's already explained why it costs so much. you know those piece of crap bars on ebay will break and bend and will do nothing for your car, so if you wanna buy somethin cheap buy that and quit yer yappin.

sorry, but these things ____ me off.

As I stated ... I got mine off ebay and it works perfect. There was no difference in stiffness from this bar and my old Hotckis bar. All we are staying is that the bars look 100% exact and why is his $175 and the one on ebay is $80. I from expierence know that the ebay bar is not cheap. Its held up for 5 months and has not faded or cracked and there are NO blems in the Carbon Fiber.

i have no problem, that you guys talk about other. But remember if you do want talk about it, please go ahead post at nother forums.
This is my post, and i already say that different processing of carbon can cost different.



As I stated ... I got mine off ebay and it works perfect. There was no difference in stiffness from this bar and my old Hotckis bar. All we are staying is that the bars look 100% exact and why is his $175 and the one on ebay is $80. I from expierence know that the ebay bar is not cheap. Its held up for 5 months and has not faded or cracked and there are NO blems in the Carbon Fiber.

thanks man for the support, i feel you what you feeling.
there are many way to make the product, cheaper way and expensive way. Products can come out look the same, but price & performance sure will be different.
i'm just try to offer different products here, if you don't like it you don't need to buy it from me.
let's end the "other" talk here. Thanks.

if u dont frekin like it, dont buy it. otherwise stop giving him a hard time. he's already explained why it costs so much. you know those piece of crap bars on ebay will break and bend and will do nothing for your car, so if you wanna buy somethin cheap buy that and quit yer yappin.

sorry, but these things ____ me off.

2 questions and im done ...

1 - How did your bar come out to be 100% exact looking as the bar from ebay?
I have seen the bar on ebay for aleast 8 months. Which means that one had to come out first and you coppied it. I just went out and looked at mine and even the bolts that attach the bar to the mounting brackets are exact that same. Just please explain how they came out 100% exact.
2 - Can you prove that your bar is the more "expensive" way of making these bars?
You stated that there is a cheap way and an expensive way. Can you prove that? If you can prove that then all the doubters would go way.

he dont need too. apparently you cannot afford his product, so be quiet already. everyone makes copies of everything simple as that. as i stated before, if you are not planning to buy one yourself, why do you keep asking questions?

excel, i'll answer his question.
1- can you tell me how thick is 80layer+ is? To make stuff exact the same look is easy, but how it done it is cost different. BTW, i have this bar very long time. I was the one who doing marketing of this type products for the factory.
I see you are on staten island, if you have ever been to the Scion meet by toyota at English town NJ race track last year. You already see this bar over there.


2- i can prove you what and how things make at different cost, but you gotta to tell me what u know about the processing of carbon and production. If you don't know the processing, then you are compare the E320 with Accent.

Let me ask you this, how much your HKS stuff cost your Accord? Do you know there is identical item selling 50% less of HKS price or even lower?
check out this item selling by the same seller.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33638&item=7957617719&rd=1

U think wrx owner will buy this? I'm sure there will be some. Did sTi copy his or he copy sTi? hum... it is 100% look the same even the color.

he dont need too. apparently you cannot afford his product, so be quiet already. everyone makes copies of everything simple as that. as i stated before, if you are not planning to buy one yourself, why do you keep asking questions?

My HKS stuff was expensive but that is name brand. I paid to have my stuff say HKS and I paid for HKS quality. If your product was made by HKS and the one I have was made by Joe ____ The Ragman then I would understand why it was more expensive. But your product is not a major name brand and neither is the one on ebay. So there for you can't compair them that way.

All I ask is that you PROVE with physical evidence that your bar is the "more expensive" way of making it and this will all end.

You are here trying to sell a product, so as a salesman you need to prove to us that your product is better and we should pay more money for your product.


excel xb there is nothing about affording it becasue I already have one ... So keep your useless comments to your self.

name brand don't = high end item.
i already told you, my carbon bar is dry carbon processing.

i already have the spec on the first post, people who know carbon knows it. I guess you know nothing about carbon.


My HKS stuff was expensive but that is name brand. I paid to have my stuff say HKS and I paid for HKS quality. If your product was made by HKS and the one I have was made by Joe ____ The Ragman then I would understand why it was more expensive. But your product is not a major name brand and neither is the one on ebay. So there for you can't compair them that way.

All I ask is that you PROVE with physical evidence that your bar is the "more expensive" way of making it and this will all end.

You are here trying to sell a product, so as a salesman you need to prove to us that your product is better and we should pay more money for your product.


excel xb there is nothing about affording it becasue I already have one ... So keep your useless comments to your self.

There are no specs ... all you did was SAY it was dry carbon process ... that dosen't prove anything! Show us some pics of it being made, show us some pics of the 8-11 layers of carbon fiber, SHOW SHOW SHOW us the process your bar went though and prove to us that it is better ... REMEMBER pics are worth 1,000 words!

AND name brand does equal price because behind name brand come quality ... You pay for HKS stuff because you know where it is comming from and you know the quality and performance behind it ... Its proven quality and proven performance!

I'm sorry this is not the place for your education, if you want to learn go back to school or i can give you some site to learn.
-EOM-

There are no specs ... all you did was SAY it was dry carbon process ... that dosen't prove anything! Show us some pics of it being made, show us some pics of the 8-11 layers or carbon fiber, SHOW SHOW SHOW us the process your bar went though and prove to us that it is better ... REMEMBER pics are worth 1,000 words!

Stop avoiding the question ... Im NOT asking you to teach me ... I asking you to show me yours was made using the dry carbon process as you claim ... I don't want you to teach me how to do it, but show me that your was done with that process!

id agree, saying its carbon processed doeant prove anything, its just saying it was carbon processed, if you had it made how about a reciept of where it was made, or a invoice of its making.

nobodys trying to make you look like a fool, its just that when you try to sell something thats looks 99% identical to another one thats half the price, and then you say its different becaust it was manufactured different then how do you explain the fact it looks 99% identical, i do know about manufacturing proccesses of carbon and the layering process, and it does produce a slightly different looks per bar, they arnet all perfectly the same look.

lets just say that through a fluke mark of luck your product made through a dry process just happened to lay and clear looking exactly the same way as the supposed cheaper wet one sold on ebay, how would one explain the fact that the mounts, the brackets, the welds, all the aluminum parts were manufactured exactly the same with the same rounded ends, same rounded edges and same angles.

theres nothing wrong with selling something that you didnt make, but when you claim that you made something custom or try to take credit for something made when theres another thats identical it kind of throws off the chance for people to believe you. maybe if you had said the one online was another one you had made, or it was somehow related to your product but it was cheaper because its used, or somethign like that then fine, but when you try to absolve any existive link between that bar and your bar by just saying it was made with a diffrent process and yours is superior because you said so does not prove anything, claiming that only you know about carbin processing and noone else knows what thier are talking about wont sell your product.

I tried to give you the benifit of the doubt that somehow your product was different, but i just cant help read the back and forth banter between you two, if your bar is truley superior there would be some sort of proof or test.

when i make products they look unique, theres no other that look like it, and thats how i make them, not only that but if there was an identical product selling for half the price i would save myself the time and money and just buy thier product at half the price and sell that one, unless my product was superior then it would justify the higher cost, if there were any question i would buy the unsuperior product, and test it side by side letting my Gtech Pro Competition tell me whos product is superior. thats just me however, and i am a jow schmoe small time fabricator, but at least i stand by my products enough that i would invest the time and money to prove my products are what they are sold for, some are expensive, but your paying for superior performance, some are way way cheaper than my competition, that it because if i cant offer a superior product ill at least make it way cheaper to make up for its lower performance, because sometimes you cant compete with a multi million dollar company doesnt mean you cant just sell a cheaper product in which you get a better performance-to-dollar ratio.

Any salesman would prove what thier selling is worth what theyre selling it for, if you dont feel you need to prove anything then you shouldnt be a sales man, or you should go to ebay with the rest of the crowd who charges 5 bucks buy it now and 100 dollars shipping

hi daewoot, as for business secrect i don't think any other company will show your they factory infomation and they receipet right?
If you say no, i want to see the stuff you buy from major name brand for your car.

the CNC machine can make stuff 99.9% identical, it is easy using those machine to copy or duplicate products.

maybe it was bad idea to have polish finished for dry carbon, but more people like they finished look good. Dry carbon finished look like raw, dirty color. So the idea to have polish is looking better, but so do other carbon finished is with polish clear coat on it.

maybe i'll ask factory one of bar with out polish it, will that help to to understand?

id agree, saying its carbon processed doeant prove anything, its just saying it was carbon processed, if you had it made how about a reciept of where it was made, or a invoice of its making.

nobodys trying to make you look like a fool, its just that when you try to sell something thats looks 99% identical to another one thats half the price, and then you say its different becaust it was manufactured different then how do you explain the fact it looks 99% identical, i do know about manufacturing proccesses of carbon and the layering process, and it does produce a slightly different looks per bar, they arnet all perfectly the same look.

lets just say that through a fluke mark of luck your product made through a dry process just happened to lay and clear looking exactly the same way as the supposed cheaper wet one sold on ebay, how would one explain the fact that the mounts, the brackets, the welds, all the aluminum parts were manufactured exactly the same with the same rounded ends, same rounded edges and same angles.

theres nothing wrong with selling something that you didnt make, but when you claim that you made something custom or try to take credit for something made when theres another thats identical it kind of throws off the chance for people to believe you. maybe if you had said the one online was another one you had made, or it was somehow related to your product but it was cheaper because its used, or somethign like that then fine, but when you try to absolve any existive link between that bar and your bar by just saying it was made with a diffrent process and yours is superior because you said so does not prove anything, claiming that only you know about carbin processing and noone else knows what thier are talking about wont sell your product.

I tried to give you the benifit of the doubt that somehow your product was different, but i just cant help read the back and forth banter between you two, if your bar is truley superior there would be some sort of proof or test.

when i make products they look unique, theres no other that look like it, and thats how i make them, not only that but if there was an identical product selling for half the price i would save myself the time and money and just buy thier product at half the price and sell that one, unless my product was superior then it would justify the higher cost, if there were any question i would buy the unsuperior product, and test it side by side letting my Gtech Pro Competition tell me whos product is superior. thats just me however, and i am a jow schmoe small time fabricator, but at least i stand by my products enough that i would invest the time and money to prove my products are what they are sold for, some are expensive, but your paying for superior performance, some are way way cheaper than my competition, that it because if i cant offer a superior product ill at least make it way cheaper to make up for its lower performance, because sometimes you cant compete with a multi million dollar company doesnt mean you cant just sell a cheaper product in which you get a better performance-to-dollar ratio.

Any salesman would prove what thier selling is worth what theyre selling it for, if you dont feel you need to prove anything then you shouldnt be a sales man, or you should go to ebay with the rest of the crowd who charges 5 bucks buy it now and 100 dollars shipping

check out this item selling by the same seller.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33638&item=7957617719&rd=1

U think wrx owner will buy this? I'm sure there will be some. Did sTi copy his or he copy sTi? hum... it is 100% look the same even the color.


I am not getting into the discussion on YOUR bar, but the difference between a Fuji Heavy Industries bar:
http://www.rallispec.com/images_elements/title_suspbar.jpg

and this eBay one:


http://www.rallispec.com/images_product/RST2090_small.jpg



http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sell/SSProfiles/10053086/Images/wrxstrutbarset.jpg


...........is that this seller DOES NOT state that it is a STi bar or even a STi replica/style...................... the seller just states that it fits the car.

and anyone who has ever owned a WRX/STi would instantly be able to tell that that eBay part is A) a replica and B) a piece of garbage.[/b]

i was showing that to show people how item can be copy identical

[quote="Maicca"][quote="calvinwch"]

How can you ask the factory for 1 raw bar when you said they only made the 3 ... The only way a CNC machine can make things 100% identical is if you program it in that way ... which means you had to get the deminsion from one bar and program the machine to copy it ...

There is no buiness secrete to making carbon fiber products ... you are trying to prove to us that your bar is better so you should show us that your bar is better ...

Lava i already say that i may request one un-polish bar, to show the dry carbon.
program cnc is not the only way, there is computer digitizer to scan 3D object and run CNC by computer.

i agree that there is no secrect to making carbon, but how u did it what u using on it is company secrect. Like how long was the bake time, chemical mix ration. The result will come out different.

How can you ask the factory for 1 raw bar when you said they only made the 3 ... The only way a CNC machine can make things 100% identical is if you program it in that way ... which means you had to get the deminsion from one bar and program the machine to copy it ...

There is no buiness secrete to making carbon fiber products ... you are trying to prove to us that your bar is better so you should show us that your bar is better ...

Im not asking for all the baking time and ____ like that, im asking for pics of your 8-11 layers and pics of it going though the dry carbon process. I would like something to prove that your bar is infact a better made bar.

I can say all day long my hot lava is better then all the other hot lavas, the only way to prove that would be to supply evidance and pics of why my hot lava is better then then other hot lavas out there. Me just saying it dosen't prove anything.

did i say i may request one dry carbon bar with out polish finished?
and you stop confuse other, i was answer your question that how can it be made different for carbon processing.

so once i got the bar you see it as dry carbon, then u know it is different.

Im not asking for all the baking time and ____ like that, im asking for pics of your 8-11 layers and pics of it going though the dry carbon process. I would like something to prove that your bar is infact a better made bar.

I can say all day long my hot lava is better then all the other hot lavas, the only way to prove that would be to supply evidance and pics of why my hot lava is better then then other hot lavas out there. Me just saying it dosen't prove anything.

Ill wait for you to get a non polished bar ...
How do you explain even the bolts & nut that bolt the bar to the mounting bracket are the same? Also explain how all the same parts used on the ebay bar are also used on your bar i.e. The adjustable nuts on the bar, the end links on the bar & the welds on the mounting bracket.

i think that when calvin was refering ot businesses secrets i think he ment he didnt want to show us a reciept of where he got the bar made, which i can respect.
because if he did that theres nothing to stop us from bypassing the middle man and going straight to that company and having them made for cost, minus his cut.

so no problem, however you can edit or blur parts out for confidentiality, but who cares its not important.

Ok lava, i can explian this to you.
As for cut cost production, easy way is get a product and copy it.
This way you saving design and development cost, only thing is both item will come out as same look. You are saving thouands of money by doing that.

is that helping you understand today's business market?


Ill wait for you to get a non polished bar ...
How do you explain even the bolts & nut that bolt the bar to the mounting bracket are the same? Also explain how all the same parts used on the ebay bar are also used on your bar i.e. The adjustable nuts on the bar, the end links on the bar & the welds on the mounting bracket.

if u dont frekin like it, dont buy it. otherwise stop giving him a hard time. he's already explained why it costs so much. you know those piece of crap bars on ebay will break and bend and will do nothing for your car, so if you wanna buy somethin cheap buy that and quit yer yappin.

to excel, i cant speak for hot lava, i have no problem with calvin, I as a possible buyer of either this or the ebay bars would like to research both products, so i do feel it is in my and others interest to find out the differences, advantages and disadvantages between both bars.


you know those piece of crap bars on ebay will break and bend and will do nothing for your car

Thats just the fact, WE dont know that they will do that, can you prove that the ebay ones will crack and break, and if they will crack and break, and calvins is manufactured to such similar specs that it came out identical, that what would that say about his product? we as the consumer have the right to know thier products before we purchased them, would you pay twice as much for an item that you could possibly get for half the cost? it depends right? if the cheaper item is identical, in all retrospects then why shell out double the money? however if the more expensive item was justified because it was somehow proven to be a superior product then i would have no problem paying double the money for a product that was double the quality or more.

however would you buy something for your scion that you were told was JDM? just because it was named JDM doesnt mean its JDM, you would want to see some sort of proof of its importing from Japan, right? i know i would if i truley wanted a JDM piece.

Maybe your not a JDM fan, lets co-relate this thought into something similar, would you buy a diamond ring for your wife/daughter if it was claimed to be 5 karat perfect diamond? wouldnt you like to see the certificate?

I allways try to give the benifit of the doubt, but nothing beats proof.

So since you cut cost there why should we think you didnt cut cost and a make the bar the "cheap" way.

Trust me I know the business market ... Im in the oil sales business. I work for an ExxonMobil oil distrubtor and as a salesman on the road I come across ____ product all day long being sold as good product.

Im not saying your product is ____ but I would like to see proof that it is better.

When a customer ask me to explain why my Mobil product is better then the product he is using, I show him written & proven data on paper, API Engine Oil Licensees, product data sheets & MSDS sheets. All this is in writing and backed by ExxonMobil & API. API is the company who decides what spec oil has to meet and also Licensees & Certifies all the oils that meet the spec.

My receipt is direct from factory, which is my secrect and you respect that i'm thank you.
I'm import those item myself, and i don't think that is you refer as "MIDDLE MAN".
without importer, you won't even get a middle man. If you like to buy it from factory at one piece, feel free to do it. There is alot open informantion about factory over sea, even USA factory.

like you say, sure you can edit or blur any thing you want. IF i show you some invoice, you can say that is fake, it has been edit or even you will say I made that up my self.

if you want some doc's i have my import document from broker. If this not stop you keep bashing me, feel free to contiune. Because turth is out there, it won't stop me keep telling you the turth.
http://www.scion4me.com/calvin/an.jpg

Dae, there is no free lunch. People do need make money, else you won't get a job and many others. So do the Scionlife here, as we are seller we pay fee too.

i think that when calvin was refering ot businesses secrets i think he ment he didnt want to show us a reciept of where he got the bar made, which i can respect.
because if he did that theres nothing to stop us from bypassing the middle man and going straight to that company and having them made for cost, minus his cut.

so no problem, however you can edit or blur parts out for confidentiality, but who cares its not important.

Its dated 11/22/04 ... why did it take 3 months to post the sale ...
Thanks for the shipping doc.
Now do you have anything showing how the bar was made?

That was shipped to NY ... are you located in NY?

Lava, you just can't stop slap your self right?

you ask me "how come it both itme are look the same" so i explian it to you why and how people doing this way by bapass the design and develop cost.

So let me do this way in reverse, you become me, i become you.

Lava, can you show me that your product of 93octin gas is 93? Can you show me the picture how YOU make 93octin? I would love to see that i'm buying what i get.
How do i know that you didn't put 87octin into 93 gas tank and sell it as 93?
Can you proof that?
Hey don't forgot show me your invoice of making 87, 89 or 93 octin oil? Where dose it make?
BTW, how come 87 and 93 Gas look the same?



So since you cut cost there why should we think you didnt cut cost and a make the bar the "cheap" way.

Trust me I know the business market ... Im in the oil sales business. I work for an ExxonMobil oil distrubtor and as a salesman on the road I come across ____ product all day long being sold as good product.

Im not saying your product is ____ but I would like to see proof that it is better.

When a customer ask me to explain why my Mobil product is better then the product he is using, I show him written & proven data on paper, API Engine Oil Licensees, product data sheets & MSDS sheets. All this is in writing and backed by ExxonMobil & API. API is the company who decides what spec oil has to meet and also Licensees & Certifies all the oils that meet the spec.

yeah man i respect what your doing, big upps for posting the freight bill.

I dont know anything about gas ... but oil I can tell you about oil ... Im not trying to bust your balls ... just trying to see why someone should pay $175 for yours and no $80 for the other guys.

I don't make the product either I just distrube it for ExxonMobil ... If you ask them they will tell you how it is made and what the differences is between them!

this is import document. Which proof that i import prodcut my self, not like you say i got it from some one here.
it don't mean that is the date i got those in here.

for product, i have to request one from factory with no polish. Which Dry carbon can be tell just by look.

If you really want to know different processing of carbon, here is helpful site at www.fiberglast.com
They selling video also, or you can try to search online. There is some forums for the fiber processing.

AS I SAY, I WILL TRY TO GET DRY CARBON BAR WITH OUT POLISH. That is good enough for people see it.

if that is not good enough for you, which i can ask you this also. Can you show me every oz of Mobil oil made for 93octin? How can i know that i buying 100% 93octin?

Its dated 11/22/04 ... why did it take 3 months to post the sale ...
Thanks for the shipping doc.
Now do you have anything showing how the bar was made?

i though you are the sales man, you have show people what you sale and how it made


2 - Can you prove that your bar is the more "expensive" way of making these bars?
You are here trying to sell a product, so as a salesman you need to prove to us that your product is better and we should pay more money for your product.
Show us some pics of it being made, show us some pics of the 8-11 layers of carbon fiber, SHOW SHOW SHOW us the process your bar went though and prove to us that it is better ... REMEMBER pics are worth 1,000 words!

How do you explain even the bolts & nut that bolt the bar to the mounting bracket are the same? Also explain how all the same parts used on the ebay bar are also used on your bar i.e. The adjustable nuts on the bar, the end links on the bar & the welds on the mounting bracket.

As my question to your oil gas too, can you tell me why yor oil/gas are look same as shell, BP or some other non name brand?
Please tell me as you ask me, else i won't stop until you stop.


I don't make the product either I just distrube it for ExxonMobil ... If you ask them they will tell you how it is made and what the differences is between them!

I told you I don't sell gas. I sell oil. All oil does NOT look the same. All the different weights of oils look different.
There are MANY differnent grades of oil
There is
Straight 10w
Straight 20w
Straight 30w
Straight 40w
Straight 50w
There there is also
0w20, 0w30, 0w40, 5w20, 5w30, 10w30, 10w40, 15w50, 20w50
Then there is different levels of the oil
Conventional
Semi-Synthetic
Fully-Synthetic

"Color" can vary depending on the refining process. Mobil uses a group 4 base stock which it more refined and most of your other companies only use a group 3 base stock which is less refined. and some even use a group 2 base stock which is even LESS refined. The "color" also depending alot on the additive pack that is in the oil. Each manufacture adds there own additive pack to their oil unique which inturn makes all the different oils "look" different.

Anything else!

ALSO Mobil has a quality controll program for all of their Gas Stations and Mobil 1 Lube Expresses, what is says is what you are getting, if the owner does not buy ONLY Mobil product and sell ONLY mobil product ExxonMobil will shut the station or quick lube down! You know what you are getting from Mobil!

Geez, do you demand this level of proof on everything? Especially when you're admittedly NOT in the market for the object being offered? You made your point, Caveat Emptor...

Stop avoiding the question ... Im NOT asking you to teach me ... I asking you to show me yours was made using the dry carbon process as you claim ... I don't want you to teach me how to do it, but show me that your was done with that process!


like you say, i'm not asking you to tell me different grade. I'm ASKing you to show me that how your oil was done with process.










I told you I don't sell gas. I sell oil. All oil does NOT look the same. All the different weights of oils look different.
There are MANY differnent grades of oil
There is
Straight 10w
Straight 20w
Straight 30w
Straight 40w
Straight 50w
There there is also
0w20, 0w30, 0w40, 5w20, 5w30, 10w30, 10w40, 15w50, 20w50
Then there is different levels of the oil
Conventional
Semi-Synthetic
Fully-Synthetic

"Color" can vary depending on the refining process. Mobil uses a group 4 base stock which it more refined and most of your other companies only use a group 3 base stock which is less refined. and some even use a group 2 base stock which is even LESS refined. The "color" also depending alot on the additive pack that is in the oil. Each manufacture adds there own additive pack to their oil unique which inturn makes all the different oils "look" different.

Anything else!

hey ScionMan, you were ask me or HIM?
If that is you asking me, i can say is. What he ask me is what I ask him. If he not stop asking question, i belive i have to answer to all his question. Else i'll be end up that i'm just try to ripoff people as he refer.

If you were asking HIM, i have no idea.


Geez, do you demand this level of proof on everything? Especially when you're admittedly NOT in the market for the object being offered? You made your point, Caveat Emptor...

I was asking him. Don't understand why he keeps jumping on your stuff...

I can show you how the oil is processed if you wanna meet me in Paulsbrough NJ and the ExxonMobil plant

You asked about the color & the looks and I explained that to you. Get your questions right

"Color" can vary depending on the refining process. Mobil uses a group 4 base stock which it more refined and most of your other companies only use a group 3 base stock which is less refined. and some even use a group 2 base stock which is even LESS refined. The "color" also depending alot on the additive pack that is in the oil. Each manufacture adds there own additive pack to their oil unique which inturn makes all the different oils "look" different."

Ok, I have no idea too.

I gave my word, and try to get a proof. If that is not good enough for some of you, you don't need to ask me again and don't buy from me.



I was asking him. Don't understand why he keeps jumping on your stuff...

Sure, why don't you meet me in Taiwan International airport. I'll show you how those bar finished or even processing in person at factory.

BTW, i didn't ask how you get your oil color made

I can show you how the oil is processed if you wanna meet me in Paulsbrough NJ and the ExxonMobil plant

You asked about the color & the looks and I explained that to you. Get your questions right

"Color" can vary depending on the refining process. Mobil uses a group 4 base stock which it more refined and most of your other companies only use a group 3 base stock which is less refined. and some even use a group 2 base stock which is even LESS refined. The "color" also depending alot on the additive pack that is in the oil. Each manufacture adds there own additive pack to their oil unique which inturn makes all the different oils "look" different."

i though you are the sales man, you have show people what you sale and how it made

As my question to your oil gas too, can you tell me why yor oil/gas are look same as shell, BP or some other non name brand?
Please tell me as you ask me, else i won't stop until you stop.


You asked my why they look the same did you not ... and I explained to you that they dont look the same and why they dont ... am I missing something ...

did you see i say color?

i though you are the sales man, you have show people what you sale and how it made

As my question to your oil gas too, can you tell me why yor oil/gas are look same as shell, BP or some other non name brand?
Please tell me as you ask me, else i won't stop until you stop.


You asked my why they look the same did you not ... and I explained to you that they dont look the same and why they dont ... am I missing something ...

You asked why they look the same ... the "look" of the oil is the color of the oil ... what other "looks" does oil have?

hum.. i though you were the sale man.
Look can have as COLOR, THICKENES and Clarity.
You asked why they look the same ... the "look" of the oil is the color of the oil ... what other "looks" does oil have?

Oil does not have thickness its called Viscosity ... and you can't tell the viscosity of an oil by looking at it. There is a test you can run to find out the viscosity of an oil.
Clarity falls into the same as color ... The heavier weight oils have a darker color ... the lighter weight oils have a lighter color.
NEXT!

hehehe

ofcuse you can tell the viscosity of different type of oil, if you going to a auto store that sell oil. I belive they will show you which has more viscosity, using small pully wheels and turn them
or if you want to say ofcuse you can't tell what is the technial # of viscosity, but sure can tell which is more viscosity.

Else how you proof and sell your oil to the customer? Mr. sales of month.
I though you say .....that dosen't prove anything! Show us some pics of it being made, show us some pics of the 8-11 layers of carbon fiber, SHOW SHOW SHOW us the process your bar went though and prove to us that it is better ... REMEMBER pics are worth 1,000 words!

REMEMBER PICS ARE WORTH 1,000 WORDS!


Oil does not have thickness its called Viscosity ... and you can't tell the viscosity of an oil by looking at it. There is a test you can run to find out the viscosity of an oil.
Clarity falls into the same as color ... The heavier weight oils have a darker color ... the lighter weight oils have a lighter color.
NEXT!

That pully wheel thing is something for Lucas oil ... The PROPER way to show the viscosity of an oil is the spec sheet!
Here is the spec sheet for 0w30 Mobil 1 Synthetic Oil! Look at the Typical Properties
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_0W-30.asp

Now here is the spec sheet for 10w30 Mobil 1 Synthetic AGAIN look at the Typical Properties
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_10W-30.asp

That is how you prove and show the viscocity of an oil!

NEXT! O and thanks for my Salesman of the Month Award!

did you say this?Oil does not have thickness its called Viscosity ... and you can't tell the viscosity of an oil by looking at it. There is a test you can run to find out the viscosity of an oil.
Clarity falls into the same as color ... The heavier weight oils have a darker color ... the lighter weight oils have a lighter color.
NEXT!

let me super size it you can't tell the viscosity of an oil by looking at it


So you say your oil will not work as lucas oil on the pully wheel, that make me feel it is like water. If i'm a customer, i won't buy it from you. Because you didn't SHOW me how good it is
So you still haven't answer my question, "can you tell by LOOK at it?" Ofcuse i didn't mean the technial data # of it, but by your eye you can see which has more viscosity


SoCan You?
I'm only expect 2 answer yes & no.

That pully wheel thing is something for Lucas oil ... The PROPER way to show the viscosity of an oil is the spec sheet!
Here is the spec sheet for 0w30 Mobil 1 Synthetic Oil! Look at the Typical Properties
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_0W-30.asp

Now here is the spec sheet for 10w30 Mobil 1 Synthetic AGAIN look at the Typical Properties
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_10W-30.asp

That is how you prove and show the viscocity of an oil!

NEXT! O and thanks for my Salesman of the Month Award!

BTW: Congratulation you are the salesman of the month at Feb. 28 2005.

That pully wheel thing is something for Lucas oil ... The PROPER way to show the viscosity of an oil is the spec sheet!
Here is the spec sheet for 0w30 Mobil 1 Synthetic Oil! Look at the Typical Properties
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_0W-30.asp

Now here is the spec sheet for 10w30 Mobil 1 Synthetic AGAIN look at the Typical Properties
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_10W-30.asp

That is how you prove and show the viscocity of an oil!

NEXT! O and thanks for my Salesman of the Month Award!

That lucas thing is not to show a viscosity of an oil. Viscoity stands for the ability of a liquid to flow at certain temps. This liquid we are talking about is oil. Unless you have a blow torch to heat the liquid over 100 degrees C and a freezer to freeze down to below 0 degrees F then NO you can not show the true viscosity of an oil.
NEXT!

did you say "UNLESS"? that mean you can see right?

I belive i say that already, but here is it again. I'm not looking technical data#, only is by LOOKING.
so if you heat up or freeze down, then you can tell? That sound to me you can tell by LOOK.

That lucas thing is not to show a viscosity of an oil. Viscoity stands for the ability of a liquid to flow at certain temps. This liquid we are talking about is oil. Unless you have a blow torch to heat the liquid over 100 degrees C and a freezer to freeze down to below 0 degrees F then NO you can not show the true viscosity of an oil.
NEXT!

READ ... You can NOT tell just by looking ... You have to change the factors ... You have do certain things to it before you can tell, I explained it to you ... You can NOT just open a bottle and tell ... you either have to heat it up to over 100 degrees C or cool it below 0 drgrees F ...

I did answer your question ... The only way you can tell is by changing the factors ... The lucas thing does NOT change any factors ... its just a selling tool for their product ... thats it!

READ.....then why don't u tell me what u mean "unless", or as u say "either" this time? Any one here is english teacher? i think i mis-understood when Lava say "unless"

so i guess that pully wheel is a toy false Ad toy.
Again i'm not asking factors, all i know is you telling me you can't even tell a little tiny ichy bit difference by look?





READ ... You can NOT tell just by looking ... You have to change the factors ... You have do certain things to it before you can tell, I explained it to you ... You can NOT just open a bottle and tell ... you either have to heat it up to over 100 degrees C or cool it below 0 drgrees F ...

I did answer your question ... The only way you can tell is by changing the factors ... The lucas thing does NOT change any factors ... its just a selling tool for their product ... thats it!

You are asking just by looking at regular oil and I told you NO ... you need to change the factors to tell ...

The Lucas thing is not for oil Viscosity ... Its a selling tool for one of their products.

umm how did this degenerate into a two person fight over the viscosity of oil?

so what is UNLESS?
hum.. i wonder what Lucas has in that toy, maybe coca cola or Dr. paper.


You are asking just by looking at regular oil and I told you NO ... you need to change the factors to tell ...

The Lucas thing is not for oil Viscosity ... Its a selling tool for one of their products.

i did what ever he did to me, so you tell me.


umm how did this degenerate into a two person fight over the viscosity of oil?

i did what ever he did to me, so you tell me.


umm how did this degenerate into a two person fight over the viscosity of oil?

EXCEPT I gave you facts to prove what I was saying ... I gave you the link to Mobil's website about the different viscosities and I explained to you the difference ... I answered all your questions ... you hide from all mine ...

those are nothing but technical data, i was asking you "REMEMBER PICS ARE WORTH 1,000 WORDS!" as u ask me.
I'M SORRY, i didn't ask u the FACTS.

What is that unless mean? I won't stop asking you PICS & UNLESS untill you answer me.

you are just try to make this longer.



i did what ever he did to me, so you tell me.


umm how did this degenerate into a two person fight over the viscosity of oil?

EXCEPT I gave you facts to prove what I was saying ... I gave you the link to Mobil's website about the different viscosities and I explained to you the difference ... I answered all your questions ... you hide from all mine ...

:flame: :gun:

1st ... you can't show pics of viscosity ... how would you like me to take a pic of something flowing ...
2nd ... you have proven post after post that you are infact an idiot and do not know how to read.

I am done here ... Have fun trying to rip people off!

1st. How? ok, there is moving pics call VIDEO. either 30pics per seconds or 60pics per seconds.
2nd. I'm just asking what YOU ASKING me as my product, if asking what you ask me is idiot. What are u? Stupidity idiotic? I still haven't see your "UNLESS" mean

Selling something cost more money don't mean rip off, if you done here then so do i.

1st ... you can't show pics of viscosity ... how would you like me to take a pic of something flowing ...
2nd ... you have proven post after post that you are infact an idiot and do not know how to read.

I am done here ... Have fun trying to rip people off!


LOCKED
This has gone way way off topic
questions
please pm Me DJ X Trodinaire