i just saw this while checking out their website like i do periodically:

http://www.scioned.com/turbos.asp

looks like a pretty good setup if it works like they say it will.

Very cool. Hey Eric, are you going to get that turbo once you sell your stereo equip? I'd drop the airbag system and go with the turbo's bro. It's your choice though.

so $2499 is for stage 1 without intercooler?

Anybody know if that kit will be getting a CARB EO?

I heard Eric will be the first one with the kit on his car. Eric, if you have any questions you can ask Teddy tonight at the meet. He'll have all the info you need.

I talked to Spy a couple of days ago and they said the kit should be ready in 4 weeks. I cant wait to see one in person...

has spy said anything about the reliability of the kit? It looks like the will out about 135-150 hp, but i wonder if that is to the wheels or not.

It should be very reliable. Have you seen their kit on the MR-S? It has 308 hp to the ground and 340 to the flywheel on pump gas.

I'd like to see the results of some dyno time, pictures of what the kit looks like, and what the install involves (w/pics).

As soon as we get it all done we will post pics and dyno sheet, don't worry.

teddy

Any updates on Spy's Turbo Kits.. The website provides minimal description and I have a few questions below. Maybe someone from this Forum may know the answers to my questions.

1. Which Garret Turbo (t3 or t3/t4)?
Does it come with oil feed/return line?
2. Maverik Motorsports Manifold & downpipe... does it come with all needed Gaskets and what size is the downpipe?
3. What kind of fuel management system? is it programmable?
4. What kind of computer? Is it going to be a piggy-back on the stock ECU or is it a replacement to the stock ECU or just modded stock ECU?
5. Will the new computer removed the Scion xB's top speed 100MPH limitation?
6. What size is the plumbing (circumference) ?
7. Which hardware is included?
8. Does it come with a manual boost controller or electronic boost controller?
What's the stock boost and what's the max boost settings?
9. Any pictures of the complete turbo kit including all hardware?

I guess all the gauges are extra (a/f mix, boost, egt gauges ).

the kit will probably come with a t25 or something small and might have a boost level somewhere around 5-7 psi. i am just making assumptions, but that would be my best guess.

1. Which Garret Turbo (t3 or t3/t4)?
T3 are you crazy?! I don't build cars with Turbo lag. We are looking at a couple of Turbos to fit the application. We consider the T25, but we feel the Turbo that we are considering will be better suited for the little engine.

Does it come with oil feed/return line?
It will be a kit, it will include everything that you will need to install.

2. Maverik Motorsports Manifold & downpipe... does it come with all needed Gaskets and what size is the downpipe?
The MAVRIK Motorsport Turbo kit is a "kit", it will include everything that you need to install it. It will come with all the needed gaskets and parts. Still working out the details of the "kit". The stock engine has a pretty good size exhaust pipe for the size of the engine. For the stage I, kit it will be a direct bolt in.

3. What kind of fuel management system? is it programmable?
Still working on that. It will not be programmable. It will be preprogrammed. I don't need any of you blowing up.

4. What kind of computer? Is it going to be a piggy-back on the stock ECU or is it a replacement to the stock ECU or just modded stock ECU?
It will be more than likely a piggy-back.

5. Will the new computer removed the Scion xB's top speed 100MPH limitation?
We are considering it, but that is in a different part of the computer. That does not have anything to do with the fuel management, it might be an added cost?

How many people considering the Turbo kit would like to eliminate the 100 mph limiter?

6. What size is the plumbing (circumference) ?
Plumbing for what? Intake? Why do you want to know the circumference? What are you using the circumference for?

7. Which hardware is included?
All needed hardware to put on the Turbo kit, Turbo, Exhaust Manifold, Down pipe, Computer, Intake piping, BOV, gaskets,

8. Does it come with a manual boost controller or electronic boost controller?
What's the stock boost and what's the max boost settings?
No, it does not come with any type of boost controler. The boost will be pre-set. I am building a "reliable" kit. We are working on a bored and stroked engine that should do approx. 200 WHP. Unless you do intensive internal modifications, you will blow up the engine!

9. Any pictures of the complete turbo kit including all hardware?
Sorry, not as of yet. Still working on it. Hang in there. As soon as I get it done you guys will be the first to see it.

teddy

the kit will probably come with a t25 or something small and might have a boost level somewhere around 5-7 psi. i am just making assumptions, but that would be my best guess.

Yes, those are all very good guesses. We have found a better Turbo than the T25. Looking at the availablity/price.

teddy

so $2499 is for stage 1 without intercooler?

Yes, no intercooler. The added piping will hurt you more than it will help you. I know everyone wants the look, though. I think we have an alternative, but unfortunately for that price that is for stage I.

teddy

Anybody know if that kit will be getting a CARB EO?

I would like to, but it is an incrediable added cost.

teddy

has spy said anything about the reliability of the kit? It looks like the will out about 135-150 hp, but i wonder if that is to the wheels or not.

Thanks, V! Yes, it will be reliable. It will be in that range, at the wheels. WHP is real HP.

teddy

6. What size is the plumbing (circumference) ?
Plumbing for what? Intake? Why do you want to know the circumference? What are you using the circumference for?

Plumbing for What? Your ad mentioned about plumbing and I'm assuming it's the intake piping. I wanted to know the size in cicumference so I know what I'm buying. For example, when I want to buy a turbo back exhaust system, I always want to know the circumference of the piping which is 2.5 inch or 3 inch and so on.

Below is a portion your turbo kin ad.

Garret Turbo, Maverik Motorsports Manifold & downpipe, fuel management system,
computer, plumbing & hardware.

R210K

1.Not clear on what turbo you are looking at. Compressor maps available? lb/hr?

2.DP size is important

3.Not a good idea. All the power is in the tuning.

4.Piggy back is fine.

5.Shouldn't make that an added cost.

6.IC piping is important as well. Depends on end tanks on IC and what size turbo you run.

7.Don't see a wastegate in there.

8.Boost more than likely you will set with wastegate on the turbo if you don't want people messing with the boost.

The best thing would be to convert MAF to MAP.

From the info you have provided I'd say you must be far off from this getting into production, or you haven't provided all the info on the the "kit".

so $2499 is for stage 1 without intercooler?

Yes, no intercooler. The added piping will hurt you more than it will help you. I know everyone wants the look, though. I think we have an alternative, but unfortunately for that price that is for stage I.

teddy

Unless you are running alcohol you are clearly mistaken. 99% of all OEM cars that come with a turbo have intercoolers, mostly side mounts (Saab, Supra, Eclipse). Now more than ever they going to the front mount (lancer, Srt-4). The IC will keep detonation down and allow safer boost at extended periods.

Now if you are offering alcohol injection with PCI's for 2500 then its a good deal, but I doubt that.

99% of all OEM cars that come with a turbo have intercoolers, mostly side mounts (Saab, Supra, Eclipse). Now more than ever they going to the front mount (lancer, Srt-4). The IC will keep detonation down and allow safer boost at extended periods.

I think what he means is the length of the piping for a FMIC so that people can get that "grinning look." I agree with you that the IC would be a bonus but to run the amount of piping from the manifold to the FMIC and then back would be crazy especially with the limited amount of space in the engine bay. Given that showoff setup I'm not too sure how the pressure would be able to maintain itself consistently through out the bends of the absurd amount of piping.

Anyway props to anyone that runs a FMIC on the xB. I mean after all the xB's have personality, now all they need is a grin. :D

BTW if you know so much then you should build a kit for us. Not trying to be offensive or anything, I just want someone to release a turbo kit already.

99% of all OEM cars that come with a turbo have intercoolers, mostly side mounts (Saab, Supra, Eclipse). Now more than ever they going to the front mount (lancer, Srt-4). The IC will keep detonation down and allow safer boost at extended periods.



BTW if you know so much then you should build a kit for us. Not trying to be offensive or anything, I just want someone to release a turbo kit already.

As a matter of fact I am building a system, too bad its for the 2ZZ GE that's going in the xB :)

I am not trying to step on toes here either, but I've seen too many people get burned on ____ quality kits, myself being one of them. If I'm gonna represent with an xB then the parts better be the best they can.

Good luck boosting the 2ZZ, With 11.5:1 compression there is no room for error.

Good luck boosting the 2ZZ, With 11.5:1 compression there is no room for error.

You can always lower the compression several ways. :wink:

just from reading teddy's posts, i can tell he knows what he's doing. so i am a lot more confident about his turbo kit now.

he is making something that is preset, and ready to install and run. it has everything you need, and doesn't require extra tuning, which can cause problems with reliability and performance. the boost is pre set, the wastegate is probably built onto the turbo (as is common with smaller turbos) and all the hoses and such will be included and will fit fine. diameter of piping and intercoolers, etc...isn't important.

try to think outside the box here, you guys. why use an IC if you don't have to? it doesn't make sense. the IC cools the air going to the turbo, the more boost and the bigger the engine and turbo, the more an IC helps. with this small engine, the intercooler will probably just add lag and not help top end enough to make it worthwhile. it will also add a lot more piping and weight to the engine area.

a piggyback computer will be fine for this application. it will adjust timing, and air/fuel levels according to the TPS (throttle position sensor) and the engine RPMs. with the right tuning, this will be very effective and will work well. keep in mind, you guys will need to run 91 octane because the car can be tuned to run faster without detonation if you use higher octane. if you insist on 87 octane, the turbo kit won't even be worth it because it will be detuned so much that the benefits will be negligible.

anyway, even though i have 19s and airbags, it would still be cool to have a more powerful engine. even a heavily modded scion isn't a race car, so i think you can have mild performance and showcar stuff at the same time.

If you really want an intercooler, the way the xB's engine compartment looks, why not have a top mount intercooler that way the pipings are not toooo long. Add a functional hood scoop and open up the grill.

If you really want an intercooler, the way the xB's engine compartment looks, why not have a top mount intercooler that way the pipings are not toooo long. Add a functional hood scoop and open up the grill.

that's what i would do if i had an IC with the 1NZ-FE-t

I would like to see a water cooled turbo rather than oil cooled turbo though.

I would like to see a water cooled turbo rather than oil cooled turbo though.

Water cooled would be nice but i don't thinki it would really be practical for a everyday street use. Now a top mount IC like in the WRX's would be nice and efficient. Only thing is then we have to get a hood scoop (good for performance and looks but bad for the budget)

Also I agree with Eric on the the Maverick kit. It's "for dummies." For those might "blow themselves up" from messing around with the tuning (that most know nothing about) it's safer with the Stage 1 kit. Now once you get into the higher stages thats a when you can complain if it has no tunability.

Actually, all turbos use oil for lubrication, and to some capacity, for cooling. Water/coolant is used on some turbos to provide additional cooling. You will most often find OEM turbochargers with water cooling because they have to take into account the possibility of most owners not letting their turbos cool down after use. Without water, you will have to be a little bit more religious about cooling down your engine, especially after long and/or hard use. Usually, just taking it easy for the mile or two before you reach your destination is enough, and almost negates the need for a turbo timer, although having a turbo timer never hurts.

Also, with correct turbo sizing, even a straight T3 can be made to spool quite well on a smaller-displacement motor. Granted, boost onset might come at a few hundred rpm later than a smaller turbo (assuming that smaller turbo is also properly-sized for the same motor), but with today's quick-revving motors, coupled with modern turbos, lag is almost a non-issue, and is nothing like the turbo cars of yesteryear. I was actually planning on running a straight T3 turbo on a Scion kit, and probably still will if I ever get around to continuing development.

just from reading teddy's posts, i can tell he knows what he's doing. so i am a lot more confident about his turbo kit now.

he is making something that is preset, and ready to install and run. it has everything you need, and doesn't require extra tuning, which can cause problems with reliability and performance. the boost is pre set, the wastegate is probably built onto the turbo (as is common with smaller turbos) and all the hoses and such will be included and will fit fine. diameter of piping and intercoolers, etc...isn't important.

try to think outside the box here, you guys. why use an IC if you don't have to? it doesn't make sense. the IC cools the air going to the turbo, the more boost and the bigger the engine and turbo, the more an IC helps. with this small engine, the intercooler will probably just add lag and not help top end enough to make it worthwhile. it will also add a lot more piping and weight to the engine area.

a piggyback computer will be fine for this application. it will adjust timing, and air/fuel levels according to the TPS (throttle position sensor) and the engine RPMs. with the right tuning, this will be very effective and will work well. keep in mind, you guys will need to run 91 octane because the car can be tuned to run faster without detonation if you use higher octane. if you insist on 87 octane, the turbo kit won't even be worth it because it will be detuned so much that the benefits will be negligible.

anyway, even though i have 19s and airbags, it would still be cool to have a more powerful engine. even a heavily modded scion isn't a race car, so i think you can have mild performance and showcar stuff at the same time.

Diameter piping is VERY important. For example explain compressor surge and backpressure. How much does the head flow? Will the turbo flow? I don't doubt the kit will have all the pieces necessary to make it a complete kit. You still need the right parts. Don't plan on going turbo unless you go with 91, I agree that's just retarded. I would definately go with a top mount if possible, but I'm not for cutting my hood. I'm not sure what weight you are talking about adding here but for the boost you will be running you can definately get away with Al piping not steel. You won't have to worry about running over your pipes because of the boost :) But if you are going turbo without an IC you are asking for trouble. The engine compartment doesn't breath well from the looks of it and the fact I can hear my fan kick on all the time and I'm just cruising. I can definately do some thermocouple testing if people are interested. Up to 6 inputs. Turbos generate massive amounts of heat which will be transferred to the head, maybe a venturi plate ala hondata. Detonation is going to happen on Cali gas.

there is also room to put a side mount like the mazdaspeed protege or audi/vw 1.8T engines have, in the top passenger part of the engine. piping will be short and you will have cool air coming in from the front. and you don't have to cut your hood. just a thought.

Hmmm... just wanted to try uploading an image into the scionlife galleries.
Here's what I was working on in terms of a top-mount ic for the Scion. Unfortunately, such a design would only work well on the xB, and it's not very efficient (from an engineering standpoint) to have a design for one engine work only in one chassis, but not on the same engine in another chassis. That, and it's not cool to exclude xA owners. :)

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/albums/196.jpg

Van, cool sketches. Based on your sketch, no need to alter the hood for hood scoop... Very Cool. I like it.

i think water cooled would be better, most stock turbo'ed cars are water cooled for the reason van explained. my sr20det is like that. as far as the i/c goes i'd rather have front mount cause it would run a lot cooler instead of getting all the rising heat off the motor since hot air goes up. just stick in a nice t28 ballbearing turbo in there and everything would be fine. a hks gt series ballbearing turbo would be even better.

i think van's idea w/ the i/c might work out too. just try different ways to see what works best.

....the IC cools the air going to the turbo....

hummmm......u know i could have sworn it cools air comming from the turbo not into the turbo... =0)

i meant the air going to the engine from the turbo. sorry.

i have been thinking that van's idea is a good one. i don't think the heat from the engine will be as bad as you think, espeically running low boost. and a front mount intercooler will look cool but not be as fun to drive compared to a stock engine.

The cool thing about the ic setup as I designed it is that you can use it with existing turbo kits such as the one from HKS. Just use it in lieu of the stock hot pipe that goes from the turbo, over the valve cover, into the throttle body. You'll have to fab up the piping to adapt it yourself, but you can usually do so by sectioning the existing pipe and fitting the ic in between. As for cores, check out www.bellintercoolers.com

From the looks of the posts here it would seem as if people are not talking from personal experience, ie owning a turbo vehicle.

I would take this info with a grain of salt.

what? i am talking from experience. i have worked on and helped build turbo setups before, and i understand the importance of compression and boost pressures and how different engines can handle different amounts of forced induction. anyway, we are just discussing stuff here. i know for a fact that over 99% of people who say they are going to turbo their car don't do it. and most people here haven't even owned a turbo car, but for the few that have worked on them, i would listen to what they have to say. there are a lot of different ways to approach turbo setups and there are a lot of different opinions, even amongst educated engineers. when it comes to things like intercooling, boost levels, and tuning methods, you are going to hear tons of different solutions for the same problem, and they might all be right.

hopefully, i'm going to be one of the people who tries to design my own turbo setup, or at least make one based on an existing proven design, but i need to do more research and see how strong the engine is first. if the engine can handle 6psi of boost, then it will be a worthwhile project. yes, we have all seen the turbo kits on the show cars but we don't even know if they work. a lot of those kinds of things are fake, and just for show. if they aren't, where are the dyno numbers?

the US version of the bBs are going to be more performance oriented and more powerful simply because ours are avilable with a manual transmission. the AWD automatic 108hp engine must be so slow, and turboing it will still make it slower than most front wheel drive manual transmissions with less power. that is why the turbo thing hasn't really been huge in japan, i think.

Any new info...especially as far as a ballpark release date?

What happend to this kit?!

The light bulb went off in my head.

How about a ball bearing t28? :D

i think a t28 will be too big, but who knows.

i think this project died. :(

i might have to do this myself.

i know what happened?!?? I tried calling them but no one answered.... ill call back tomorrow... yeah now that i think of it t28 would be too big. I was just excited at the time and thinking "whoa ball bearing small turbo" then i realized it flows just as much as a big16g.. lol

Hmm......the webpage says the release date was September of 2003......and it's got a price and all and a number to call and order. I haven't called or tried to contact them. That would suck if it was dead. Someone needs a damn kit for these cars.

KiL

Just got off the phone with spy. Exhaust manifold and turbo selection pipes blah blah are complete. There is no ETA on the kit however, they said that they are running into problems with the stock computer... :(

Just got off the phone with spy. Exhaust manifold and turbo selection pipes blah blah are complete. There is no ETA on the kit however, they said that they are running into problems with the stock computer... :(

yay. you can do that stuff in one day. obviously the ECU is the hardest part to deal with. i'm sure they will figure out some kind of piggyback thing to screw with the air/fuel mixture and the timing to maximize the effectiveness of the turbo.

oh well, the toyota engineers told me it would be about a year from now until the TRD turbo kit is ready, so i guess it just takes a while.

i talked to the guys at spy. the kit is only for the xb right now. and the stage 2 kit hasnt realy been as good as they where hopping but they sayed they are working on it,

I think how different companies treat the fuel and ignition management will be the one major factor in determining which forced induction kit is better than another. Most of those kits from Japan are expensive, but it's for a reason: they've invested the time and money into the R&D it takes to ensure that what you're paying for is quality stuff. You will get the hp you expect, and you don't have to worry about whether the parts you got are going to fall apart, or worse yet, blow your engine up. The only downside to going with one of those big-name manufacturers is, of course, cost. Smaller-name manufacturers can sometimes offer some good stuff too, but just be wary of what you're getting... and again, in this case, how they treat the fuel and ignition management will determine whether you should go for it, or run away!

Not to get your hopes up, but I may have an excellent engine management solution for the xB in the future. We're planning on tuning the new US Lotus Elise, which as most of you should know by now, is coming with the glorious 1.8l 2ZZ motor. We will have our Xede piggyback working on that engine and ecu, so it should also work on the 1NZ. I'll definately have one tested on my car before the Elise is released.

Good luck with the turbo kit, just don't get greedy and expect huge power gains. (we've only got 1.5l to work with!) Hopefully next year after my turbo AE86 is finnished, I'll start my 2ZZ swap. :D