If so, when did you start?
What you use? Mobile 1 i hear is good ____.

I am thinking about changing when i hit 9k.

Share the knowledge!

I switched at my 1st oil change, i ddint use the ones from scion. I always put synthetic in my car and i do use mobile 1. But make sure you get full synthetic, sometimes they put in synthetic blend (not good).

Mobil 1 extended life 5w30 in the engine (changed out at 318 miles). Redline Mt-90 75w90 in the transaxle (5speed). Always use synthetic, dino oil is dead.

I just cahnged to Mobil1 yesterday at 1005 miles and I have to say that it pulls a little harder in mid to upper RPMs. It really smoothed out the engine at upper RPMs too. I was shocked to see how much of a difference it made.

hmm.... i dont want to start a synthetic vs. regular debate... but does the tC actually need or benefit from using synthetic? i've never used synthetic before and honestly dont know too much about oil. thinking along the lines of those gasoline (what grade do you use) threads... does any engine benefit from using synthetic?

i asked my mechanic once whether it would be good to switch to synthetic on another car i had, and he said "it'll only help if you've been running synthetic since the beginning" and i know the tC doesn't come with synthetic.

thoughts, opinions?

Mobil 1 full synthetic, since first oil change @750mi

i'm getting the free 3 oil change from the the dealer,think i'll make the switch after the third oil change..

Mobil 1 in the engine and tranny at 3,000 miles. I have 25k now... i really noticed how much smoother it shifted right away.

who isnt using synthetic?

im using mobil 1. can never go back...

hmm.... i dont want to start a synthetic vs. regular debate... but does the tC actually need or benefit from using synthetic? i've never used synthetic before and honestly dont know too much about oil. thinking along the lines of those gasoline (what grade do you use) threads... does any engine benefit from using synthetic?

i asked my mechanic once whether it would be good to switch to synthetic on another car i had, and he said "it'll only help if you've been running synthetic since the beginning" and i know the tC doesn't come with synthetic.

thoughts, opinions?

Definitely better to run synthetic. The results are proven and time tested. It wont hurt to switch to after the fact. I run Mobile1 in everything I have, definitely worth the money.

switched to Mobil 1 after my free oil changes from toyota....toyota uses great liquids...but synthetic is still alot better

Using mobil 1 too. Started with the first free oil change. I brought it in and asked for the empty containers.
It is a big deal if you have many miles on your odo and then change to synthetic. At that time your engine is well worn and using a synthetic would do more harm than good.

I don't like Mobile 1. I only use Motul on my baby.

im at 1400 miles and i havent changed the oil yet. should i wait till 3000 and then change?

hmm... i have 1100 miles on my car, do you think its too late to switch? i haven't gotten any oil changes yet, so maybe i should get it done anyway.

the earlier the better i changed my car to mobil 1 with mobil 1 oil filter since 300 miles f**k the cheap ___ three free oil changes pfhhhhhhhhhhh now i have almost ten thousand miles and ive always used mobil 1 synthetic in any car i ever had!

Let me dispell a few myths about synthetic oil:

Myth 1) you can't change to synthetic oil after running dino oil for an extended period.
Answer: You can change to synthetic oil at anytime, I have done it on the numerous used cars, both domestic and foriegn, with no ill effects.

Myth 2) Synthetic oils cause leaks.
Answer: If your car starts to leak oil after going to synthetic, that means you had oil leaks before, synthetic oil is that slippery and it is expoiting the gaps that dino oil can't get through. Dino oil will often volatize or coke around a seal defect, leaving little to no evidence of a seal leak. Synthetic lubricants however possess a very high thermal stability and resist evaporation. These exceptional performance characteristics, coupled with synthetic lubricant's inherit "creeping" ability, will unmask a seal leak not readily visible before.


From www.synlubes.com faqs

Why should I switch to synthetics?

You should only switch to synthetic lubricants if you want better equipment performance and longer equipment life than you're getting with your dinosaur (petroleum based) lubricants. The advantages you'll get with synthetic lubricants include:
* Dependable and easier cold weather starting.
* Increased thermal protection reducing the likelihood of engine overheating.
* Increased fuel economy.
* Better throttle response and increased power.
* Improved exhaust emissions.
* Longer oil drain intervals without compromising engine life.
* A cleaner engine.
* Significant reduction in engine wear.

:clap: :clap: good stuff.

gotta look into switching over to synthetic now.. how much are the synthetic filters btw?

also, anyone ever ask for synthetic during your free oil changes from toyota? if so, how much more did they add to the cost, and did they give you a hassle (like, oh you dont need that....)

i switched right after my free oil changes were used up. im currently using 5w-30 royal purple.

one mistake i see alot.. and that is people thinking that synth oil is not dino oil... except for AMSOIL.. all synthetic oil comes from the same good old dinasour......... what makes the synth ..synth.. is in the way the oil is proccessed.. synth oil is chemically proccessed.. this process allows for a much tighter/uniformed oil molecule.. which is what make synth better.... after that both regular and synthetic oil get the same additives..

i use to think the same way .. in which i thought synthetic oil was not petrolium based.. until i read about it.. again.. that is except for AMSOIL which i believe is not petrolium based..

while it is true that you can switch between regular and synth oil.. like a post above stated.. if you switch to synth on a high milage engine that has used regular oil all it's life.. the likelyhood of having leaks will go up.... but it is not true in the other direction.. due to synth oil being better at preserving seals.... while i believe if you change your oil religiously , there is no reason why you should not get the same wear out of regular oil.. the other advantages of synth oil is worth the extra cost..

I always use synthetic.
I use mobil 1 on my tc as well.
But I use royal purple in my honda.
Why?
I have no idea ahhaha.
Well toyota race cars use Mobil 1 so i might as well do the same =).

do you use the same oil filters when you use synthetic?

and you change every 5k now?

How late is to late? I already had my first oil change..i have had my tC for almost 7 months now and have 4,144 miles on it now. I want to use Synthetic but i heard you dont have to? I am not sure. Also if i want to change the tranny fluid (manual) to synthetic aswell do i take it to a place? I have never changed any oil type fluids on a car before, dont want to start with my tC.

i think there is anotehr type of filter, especially for synthetic oil. how much is the cost btw for people who've done this switch already.

How late is to late? I already had my first oil change..i have had my tC for almost 7 months now and have 4,144 miles on it now. I want to use Synthetic but i heard you dont have to? I am not sure. Also if i want to change the tranny fluid (manual) to synthetic aswell do i take it to a place? I have never changed any oil type fluids on a car before, dont want to start with my tC.

i think late is like 60,000 or like 100,000 miles.. 4k miles is still a new engine.. if you do not want to do the work yourself.. buy the oil and have a shop do it.. you will only have to pay for the laybor... the reason i say buy the oils yourself is to make sure you get what you want...

O OK..thanks! yeah i never changed the oil before in any car. I have always taken it to a place. I will ask my dad to help me, but my co-worker offered to show me how to do it. What's the best Sythetic blend out there? and if i waited until 5,000 it wont hurt right? I was going to get the mobile 1 stuff?

Also, i think this has been discussed before, and i apoligize ahead of time for asking again, But what are the benefits of switching to synthetic? Better preformance? Smoother running engine? Please tell me.

O OK..thanks! yeah i never changed the oil before in any car. I have always taken it to a place. I will ask my dad to help me, but my co-worker offered to show me how to do it. What's the best Sythetic blend out there? and if i waited until 5,000 it wont hurt right? I was going to get the mobile 1 stuff?

Also, i think this has been discussed before, and i apoligize ahead of time for asking again, But what are the benefits of switching to synthetic? Better preformance? Smoother running engine? Please tell me.

Someone else listed some of the benefits above. Synthetic takes much, much longer to break down, and is a much cleaner oil. Good post from Petem above regarding the dino/synth myth. Synthetic is made from regular oil, only the best parts are taken out and used and the rest is discarded. It is never too late to change it over. I have changed over engines that had 100,000 miles on them, then driven them to 200,000 (thats right, drive the wheels off of em :P ) I have used Valvoline Synthetic, and now use Mobile 1. It is good stuff.

I have another question sorry. For the oil filter do i have to change to a different one too special for synthetic oils? What will i need if i do this myself. Where is the filter drain plug etc. I am sorry i have never done this before and i want to try it on my own, when i asked my co-worker he thought i was kidding..but no one ever showed me how to do it. :eyebrow:

Yup yup synthetic baby i used Mobil 1 on my eclipse and decided to try somthing diff on the scion I used that royal Purple Full synthetic what do you guys think about this oil?

Turned 2000 miles today. Used my first freebee oil change and I brought them 4 quarts of AMSOIL to put in my tC.

Royal Purple since 5000.

Sweet royal Purple so far seems liek it made it a lil smoother an dim glad im not the only one using this oil how do you like it? wait Toyota still honors that free oil changes even though your not using their stuff? or where they nice enough to take it/

I have another question sorry. For the oil filter do i have to change to a different one too special for synthetic oils? What will i need if i do this myself. Where is the filter drain plug etc. I am sorry i have never done this before and i want to try it on my own, when i asked my co-worker he thought i was kidding..but no one ever showed me how to do it. :eyebrow:

You couldnt pick an easier car to learn on regarding oil changes. Just jack up the front (use jackstands!) lay underneath, and you will see the oil pan. The oil filter is right next to it facing straight down, so it is super easy to get to. Unscrew the oil plug and drain the oil. Use an oil filter wrench to remove the filter after draining the oil. To put on the new filter, rub a little bit of new oil on the new seal, and put it back on BY HAND. Do not tighten with the oil filter wrench! Hand tight is plenty. The oil seal will swell and tighten the filter even more, so if you use a wrench to tighten it, you will have one hell of a time next time! One thing to always check is that the seal stays on the original filter when you pull it off... every now and then one will stick to the block. If so, just pull it off.

Dont appologize for asking, you would have no way of knowing if you have never been taught!

Sweet royal Purple so far seems liek it made it a lil smoother an dim glad im not the only one using this oil how do you like it? wait Toyota still honors that free oil changes even though your not using their stuff? or where they nice enough to take it/

They will, but you have to supply the oil. The bad part is that they do not make up the difference between the conventional oil they would have used and what you bring in. So you are really just getting a filter and a drain and replace for free.

I have another question sorry. For the oil filter do i have to change to a different one too special for synthetic oils? What will i need if i do this myself. Where is the filter drain plug etc. I am sorry i have never done this before and i want to try it on my own, when i asked my co-worker he thought i was kidding..but no one ever showed me how to do it. :eyebrow:

You couldnt pick an easier car to learn on regarding oil changes. Just jack up the front (use jackstands!) lay underneath, and you will see the oil pan. The oil filter is right next to it facing straight down, so it is super easy to get to. Unscrew the oil plug and drain the oil. Use an oil filter wrench to remove the filter after draining the oil. To put on the new filter, rub a little bit of new oil on the new seal, and put it back on BY HAND. Do not tighten with the oil filter wrench! Hand tight is plenty. The oil seal will swell and tighten the filter even more, so if you use a wrench to tighten it, you will have one hell of a time next time! One thing to always check is that the seal stays on the original filter when you pull it off... every now and then one will stick to the block. If so, just pull it off.

Dont appologize for asking, you would have no way of knowing if you have never been taught!

dude, i feel like you are god and i should worship you for your attitude and sharing of knowledge... ok, maybe not that far, but thanks for the info. i used to live in manhattan in nyc, and there were no such things as garages or driveways, so i never got to learn how to change my oil. glad i picked up every bit of information.

btw, everyone should go download the tech manuals from this guy's website: http://mancide.net/scion/tech/ i forgot the original poster who owns the website, and am too lazy to find it. shout out to him for giving up the free bandwidth. i'm reading it and just for kicks, i know the lubrication system of the engine now... not like im going to rebuild it or anything.. just very interesting stuff.

I like this product
http://www.motul.com/uk/produits/index.html

how do i go about getting these special synthetic oil filters???
Where?
Which one?
the works!!!!

Check this out for all your 411 on Synthetic Oil and other oils!
http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=52480

You can buy a Mobil 1 Synthetic Oil filter. The part number for xB/xA/tC is M1-103

Every to be said has been...but nothing but Mobil1 for me.
My Escort was run solely on Mobil1 15w50. Blew the oil supply line to the turbo and it was still doing over 100mph under 9psi with rod knock, and never actually threw a rod. I was impressed...even though it has been diven in so long.

more info:



Let's break down the details of synthetics, and what makes them better. One definition of "synthetic" is big molecules built up from small ones. Like genetic engineers, the oil companies figured they could improve the performance of engine oil and eliminate some of the shortcomings in the laboratory.

In the simplest terms, the base stock of synthetics, polyalphaolefin (PAO) starts as ethylene gas, a simple two-carbon molecule that is built up to a 10-carbon molecule. Three of these super molecules are combined to form PAO, a base stock that offers a number of advantages over Mother Nature's version. Synthetics are more stable, flow at lower temperatures, are more resistant to boiling off, and less susceptible to oxidation, which causes thickening with prolonged high temperatures.

The inherent element with crude stock for motor oil is the molecular construction. Conventional motor oil is a batch of short-chain and long-chair carbon and hydrogen atoms. In extreme heat, the short chains can evaporate and these unstable molecules oxidize and break down. In addition, contaminants and reactive and/or unstable hydrocarbons can sneak through the refining process.


from: http://www.advanceautoparts.com/english/youcan/html/ccr/ccr20050201so.html

more info:



Let's break down the details of synthetics, and what makes them better. One definition of "synthetic" is big molecules built up from small ones. Like genetic engineers, the oil companies figured they could improve the performance of engine oil and eliminate some of the shortcomings in the laboratory.

In the simplest terms, the base stock of synthetics, polyalphaolefin (PAO) starts as ethylene gas, a simple two-carbon molecule that is built up to a 10-carbon molecule. Three of these super molecules are combined to form PAO, a base stock that offers a number of advantages over Mother Nature's version. Synthetics are more stable, flow at lower temperatures, are more resistant to boiling off, and less susceptible to oxidation, which causes thickening with prolonged high temperatures.

The inherent element with crude stock for motor oil is the molecular construction. Conventional motor oil is a batch of short-chain and long-chair carbon and hydrogen atoms. In extreme heat, the short chains can evaporate and these unstable molecules oxidize and break down. In addition, contaminants and reactive and/or unstable hydrocarbons can sneak through the refining process.


from: http://www.advanceautoparts.com/english/youcan/html/ccr/ccr20050201so.html

Great info!

I just changed to Mobil1 yesterday at 1005 miles and I have to say that it pulls a little harder in mid to upper RPMs. It really smoothed out the engine at upper RPMs too. I was shocked to see how much of a difference it made.

yeah.. i'm bringing this thread back up from the dead.. but i want to speak my thoughts on synthetics as well since i made the changeover.

what erik said is pretty much holds true for me.. my car seems to run alot smoother and maybe even quieter..

it is as if my car is screaming at me to push it even harder... it's tough to resist.

also... i changed my tranny to Redline MT-90... that was also a noticable improvement.. shifts into gears much smoother.

all-in-all... synthetic is the way to go.

OK ...let me add some fuel to the fire.

Why I dont use syn: The synthetic base stock does hold up longer than petroleum-based oils, but the additives in both wear out at the same rate. The oil companies have tested their synthetics for longevity, but they still recommend following the specific owners manual for oil change intervals. If you still need to change out every 3500-4K miles, while put in oil that is 5 times as expensive? Even dino oil is still very much "active" after 4K.

Another reason I am not a fan of syns is because people tend to leave them in longer than 5K. Regardless of oil type or filter, the oil still holds onto harmful acids that result from combustion. A filter will not get the acids out of the oil. These acids (and other nasties) are held in suspension in the engine oil, and the only way to get rid of them is to change your oil.

Mobil 1 is the way to go...always. and if you mod the engine, even better with Mobil 1
We use it in all our cars, like some one above mentioned, I will never go back to regular oil.

We just finished testing an engine head on a block going up to Windermere in the Orlando area of Florida. The Short block is a regular xA short block (like the one in Windermere will be) and the temp was slightly higher due to a few reasons (the head is shaved a little :eyebrow: ) before finding out that there were air bubbles in the radiator we changed the oil from Regular to Mobil 1 and the temp drop was substantial. After that we included that in the list of recomendations going to our friend in Windermere who is building a nice (street) engine for a Scion xA

Switched to Mobil 1 full synth at 3k miles. I went with the extended life version, your suposed to change it only every 15k miles. I think im going to do it at every 10k, just to be on the safe side.

If so, when did you start?
What you use? Mobile 1 i hear is good poop.

I am thinking about changing when i hit 9k.

Share the knowledge! Please don't wait till 9K. I've always done the first oil change at 1K just to get the break-in residue out. If you plan on keeping it a long time this is a great time to switch over to Mobil 1 also. After that change it every 5K and you are good to go. :bow:

Yes, the "wait till it breaks in to change to synthetic" is a myth. You can change to synth anytime and switch back and forth as much as you like without hurting anything. The only time I have ever heard of issues with synth (and they were possible relation to leaks) was on some porches.. which are plagued by crappy oil seals in the case to begin with, so leaks are hard to avoid anyway. So the ones I heard of could not really make any correllation to the swithc to synth anyway.

Anyone know of a good place to buy the synthetic motor oil (mobil1) and also for the filter (M1-103)?

mobil 1... hmm.. wal-mart! :P

yeah.. you can get it just about anywhere for pretty much the same price. This is true for any of the common brands.

Swapping from regular oil to synthetic is really as simple as a regular oil change? Just take out the dino oil and filter, put in the synthetic oil and filter and that's it? Is there something involved in switching to synthetic?

nope ...just that easy.

Awesome! Thanks!

Anybody know the size of the oil drain plug that we use?

10 x 1.25
or
12 x 1.25

Now how about filters? I was looking at the K&N Air Filter, K&N Gold Oil filter and switching to Mobile 1 Synth... I'm at 33k and i'm a total n00b when it comes to this but I'm leaving for a 800 mile drive back to Washington and would like to change over before I take off.

Thx!

Now how about filters? I was looking at the K&N Air Filter, K&N Gold Oil filter and switching to Mobile 1 Synth... I'm at 33k and i'm a total n00b when it comes to this but I'm leaving for a 800 mile drive back to Washington and would like to change over before I take off.

Thx!
The K&N is a great idea. I love mine.

Oil filter, either Toyota one or the Fram Extra guard will work fine. Just avoid the plain Fram one and you are good to go.

When it comes to oil it's always better to switch to Mobil 1 sooner than later. You should be able to make the switch with no problems. Personally, I go 5K between oil changes with the Mobil 1

P.S. Have a safe and fun trip and report back when you return. :lalala:

how do i reset the maintenance light and how could i change it to 10k miles instead of 5k miles? i know it says you can change it every 15k, do you guys wait that long?

how do i reset the maintenance light and how could i change it to 10k miles instead of 5k miles? i know it says you can change it every 15k, do you guys wait that long?

I put the Extended Performance in my car and I plan on waiting 15k to change it unless I see reason to change earlier, like 10k miles.

how do i reset the maintenance light and how could i change it to 10k miles instead of 5k miles? i know it says you can change it every 15k, do you guys wait that long?

I honestly didn't know that one could change the milage interval there...that would be cool though. I'd like to go like 7K or so on the extended synthetic and that reminder would be easier than writing it down and forgetting to look!

how do i reset the maintenance light and how could i change it to 10k miles instead of 5k miles? i know it says you can change it every 15k, do you guys wait that long?

I put the Extended Performance in my car and I plan on waiting 15k to change it unless I see reason to change earlier, like 10k miles.Have you looked closely how nasty the oil looks after only 5K? It is very nasty. People like the sound of being able to wait longer in between oil changes but in reality there is far too much dirt and contaminates (moisture and blowby residue) left over for the oil to absorb. These are hard working motors. Why make them suffer with dirty oil past 5K and run the risk of shortening their life just to save a few bucks. Oil changes after 5K is just cheap insurance if you want to get the max life from your engine PERIOD.
It's your car so you all can do what you want. For me I plan on getting 300K plus before I'll need an new motor. :bow:

Well, 1st of all, it's not acually mine, my dad wanted me to change his oil in his Rendevouz(sp). He dosn't plan on keeping it for 300k, infact as gas prices rise, he plans on selling it within the next year or two. I decided why not use it as a test vehicle. If the gas milage drops or the car starts to feel slwoer, then I'll change it again for him at like 10k or 7k...We'll see.

Well, 1st of all, it's not acually mine, my dad wanted me to change his oil in his Rendevouz(sp). He dosn't plan on keeping it for 300k, infact as gas prices rise, he plans on selling it within the next year or two. I decided why not use it as a test vehicle. If the gas milage drops or the car starts to feel slwoer, then I'll change it again for him at like 10k or 7k...We'll see.You're not going to notice stuff like that from leaving old oil in too long. The damage is done over time with a shortened engine life. I'm sure the next person that gets your dads vehicle would love to know the kind of TWISTED experiment you did to their new (to them) vehicle. Way to go! :bow:

LOL, you make it sounds so horrible to keep an oil ment for 15k miles of life in the engine for 15k. Again, I may just change it at 10k or sometime around there.

if you drive under normal conditions and use Mobil 1 Extended Performance in your vehicle, the oil is guaranteed to protect your engine for 15,000 miles.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Extended_Performance_FAQs.aspx#FAQs3

if you drive under normal conditions and use Mobil 1 Extended Performance in your vehicle, the oil is guaranteed to protect your engine for 15,000 miles.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Extended_Performance_FAQs.aspx#FAQs3
:rofl: Good luck trying to collect on that one :rofl: It's your car.... Um your dad's car. Do what you want. You'll learn as you get older that you can't believe everything that you read. :silly:

^^ agreed!!

if you drive under normal conditions and use Mobil 1 Extended Performance in your vehicle, the oil is guaranteed to protect your engine for 15,000 miles.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Extended_Performance_FAQs.aspx#FAQs3
:rofl: Good luck trying to collect on that one :rofl: It's your car.... Um your dad's car. Do what you want. You'll learn as you get older that you can't believe everything that you read. :silly:

I'm not saying it's true, I'm just saying it's what Mobil 1 is promising so we'll see where it gets me. I plan on changing it a year from the day I changed the oil, so about 12k miles.

Why are you posting this here? You obviously don't care about the car or anyone that may buy it so why even change the oil? Just top if off when it gets low... :rolleyes:

Why are you posting this here? You obviously don't care about the car or anyone that may buy it so why even change the oil? Just top if off when it gets low... :rolleyes:

I'm posting this here because someone asked how long people keep their extended performance oil in and I answered. I do care about the car and I'm choosing to belive what Mobil 1 is saying and see how it works out for me when I change the oil after 1 year/12k miles. I change the oil because my dad wants the car to keep running and for it to be in good condition. By changing his oil with a very expensive high quality synthetic oil that is promising 15k miles of use, I don't forsee any harm being done to the engine, however if when I change the oil it comes out incredibly black and dirty, I will never change it at 12k again and continue doing routine 5k changes. I don't think changig it ONCE with this oil at 12k will do any longterm harm...

...I'm not saying it's true, I'm just saying it's what Mobil 1 is promising so we'll see where it gets me. I plan on changing it a year from the day I changed the oil, so about 12k miles.

What does a guarantee to protect your motor for 15,000 miles mean? It means the motor is guaranteed not to suffer undue wear with 15,000-mile oil change intervals. It means that it will suffer no worse wear than a motor run on petroleum for the mfr's recommended interval of 5,000 or 7,500 miles. That is Mobil's promise to you. Nothing more.

The US carmakers have 7,500-mile oil change intervals and Mobil 1 doubles that. Scion has a more frequent 5,000-mile oil change interval, which may mean that Mobil's promise is cut to 10,000 miles for our xBs.

But synthetic oil gets dirty the same as petroleum oil - it just has more detergent additives to hold everything in suspension as it goes 'round and 'round. At 5,000 miles conventional oil in the xB is black and smelly. Imagine what Mobil 1 would be like at 10,000 miles.

If you like to keep your engine clean, and want your xB's engine to last for a very long time, change petroleum oil at 3,000 and synthetic oil at 5,000.

however if when I change the oil it comes out incredibly black and dirty, I will never change it at 12k again and continue doing routine 5k changes

Have you ever checked your oil before? It's incredibly black and dirty after just 2k miles. Trust me, you don't have to wait until 12k to find out.

AGGHHH, I'm being bombarded by people that are against me! I payed $40 for a top of the line oil, and I plan on using it to it's potential..jeez you guys, I don't see what's so wrong about keeping an oil that is tested to still work well in the engine at 15k miles, in my engine for 12k miles.

Vintage42: What you just said about Mobil 1s gaurantee is all I'm asking for from Mobil 1, nothing more. And just FYI, I don't have an xB, I'm acually talking about my dad's oil in his '02 Buick Rendevouz as mentioned above.

First, the purpose in my mind in using better oil is to change it BEFORE it is in the same condition as conventional oil is after 3k. If not, you really arent saving yourself much of anything. Actually you are worse off since you are closer to its threshold for a higher number of miles. So basically you are running closer to its poor performance line for many more miles since it tends to break down in a somewhat linear fashion.

I dont run mobile1 cause I can change it at 7k and have it in the same condition as conventional oil is after 3k.. I do it so when I change it at 4k it is in BETTER condition. And as mentioned, you would NEVER prove that it caused issues.. the issues will arise down the road in the form of premature wear.. just like many "garaunteed" products and mods.. that is why they are willing to warranty them so well. The warranty is useless. And running it longer between changes really only saves you a noticeable amount of money if you pay someone else to change it. You could buy regulare mobile 1, change it yourself every 4k, and still be better off both monetarilly and mechanically.

And some clarification.. maybe a minor detail.. but synthetic oil IS petroleum. The same oil is broken down into the parts you need and the rest is discarded.

I'm not saying it's great to run the oil for 12k. What I am saying is that I purchased a $40 top of the line oil proven to be good for 15k miles and I don't see any purpose in draining it at 5k. If people were having serious problems from using an oil made to last 15k miles, for 15k miles they would stop buying it and Mobil would stop producing it. I know the oil will be dirty when I change it, the point is is that it won't be so dirty to a point to where I harmed my engine., that's Mobil 1's promise. And FYI, I never planned on using the "gaurantee" because you guys are right, you can't prove anything with it.

I just don't see the point of paying big bucks for oil just to extend oil changes. Changes every 5K with Mobil1 is just cheap insurance, Period.....

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/Performance_Gallery/2006_Performance_Gallery_Winners.aspx

There's tons of testomony's in there from people that have used the oil from 10-15k with no problems whatsoever. I know it's a Mobil run site but still, I don't see any reason for them to make it all up because if they did lie and people where harmng their cars they would loose more money then they made because people would just stop buying their products. I'll take some pics of the oil for you guys next year when I drain it.

hmm.. all this talk about oil lasting long... uhh... we forgot to mention the filter....

I just don't see the point of paying big bucks for oil just to extend oil changes. Changes every 5K with Mobil1 is just cheap insurance, Period.....

To tell you the truth, this was my 1st time changing the oil in any car, so I decided to buy the highest quality stuff I could find, I figured if it's ment for extended use it has more cleaning agents and will clean up the crap oil the shops have been using on the car for the past 40k miles. After hearing how many of you are against the extended drain intervals, my next oil change for my car, and my dad's car if he ask's me to do his, will be using normal Mobil 1 for 5k miles.

hmm.. all this talk about oil lasting long... uhh... we forgot to mention the filter....

AGHH, Just as I finish answering 1 comment another one pops up, I can't keep up with you guys! :P I'm using the Mobil 1 Extended Performance filter so it should last for as long as the extended performance oil...It was like $12 so it better last!

That extended junk hasn't been out long enough for the damage to surface. Using this stuff is like making your vehicle a guinea pig. I'm glad you decided to do right by your dads car. Thank You!!!

I'm sure there's people that have used it who drive 30k a year and change their oil twice a year. For example people who drive far to work everyday and don't have time to change their oill frequently but still don't trust mechanics to do it for them.

however if when I change the oil it comes out incredibly black and dirty, I will never change it at 12k again and continue doing routine 5k changes

Have you ever checked your oil before? It's incredibly black and dirty after just 2k miles. Trust me, you don't have to wait until 12k to find out.

I think that may have to do w/ your driving habits or conditions.

The longest I have gone between oil changes was 2300miles, and the oil still looked very translucent. The oil changed from a honey-like color to amber, but it was by NO means black and dirty.

That is using Castrol dino and a factory filter.

... The longest I have gone between oil changes was 2300miles, and the oil still looked very translucent. The oil changed from a honey-like color to amber, but it was by NO means black and dirty. That is using Castrol dino and a factory filter.

Same miles, oil and filter here. My oil was dark translucent amber looking through the thin stream coming out of the sump. But when looking at the heavy stream coming out of the drain pan and going into my 5-gallon storage container, it appeared black. And it looks black in the container. So the color may vary depending on whether you are looking through the oil or at it.

who's warranty would you rather trust? Mobil 1's or Scion's? Scion says to change your oil every 5k miles, so you should change your oil every 5k miles if you don't want them to laugh at you when your engine is making strange noises down the road.

like jethro says, I'm glad your dad's car is the guinnea pig... we could all use less SUVs on the highway. just be nice to your scion.

......I'm glad your dad's car is the guinnea pig... we could all use less SUVs on the highway..

:clap: :clap: :rofl:

who's warranty would you rather trust? Mobil 1's or Scion's? ...

Read Mobil 1's warranty, requirements, and exclusions at:
http://mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Extended_Performance.aspx

I think im going to switch to 10w30 starting with my next oil change. It suposta help with the s/c sound.

IT wont make anything run any cleaner at all. As a matter of fact, the most common thing I have seen with changing to a heavier oil (especially in toyota 4 bangers) is a noisey drivetrain at startup that lasts a good while. I have seen a few with this issue.. who then switched back to 5W30 and corrected the issue.

who's warranty would you rather trust? Mobil 1's or Scion's? Scion says to change your oil every 5k miles, so you should change your oil every 5k miles if you don't want them to laugh at you when your engine is making strange noises down the road.

like jethro says, I'm glad your dad's car is the guinnea pig... we could all use less SUVs on the highway. just be nice to your scion.

My Scion will get an oil change every 5k miles with Mobil 1 synthetic, no question about that, but the Rendevouz will do as a guinea pig. :P

interesting - a few guys said that the odd grinding sound (which sound like a bearing problem but is normal as per TRD) ..... would get lower w/ 10w30.

maybe I didnt clarify myself or maybe they guys who said that would help were wrong.

I've been using Mobil 1 for about 13k miles now. I can't find Amsoil filters locally so I use Puralator Pure One. I've seen improvements in highway mpg. Use to be about 29-30, now I get 32-33.

I just bought a 6-pack of full synthetic for $2/quart. It was Pennzoil's new Platinum Plus. Pennzoil has a promotion with Pep Boys (and probably any other auto store like Auto Zone), good through July 29. There was a Pep Boys store coupon in the newspaper that reduced the price by over a dollar, and then a mail-in rebate from Pennzoil, which brought the cost down more than another dollar to a net $2.
Here's the web page on Platinum Plus:
http://www.pennzoilplatinum.com/

Same miles, oil and filter here. My oil was dark translucent amber looking through the thin stream coming out of the sump. But when looking at the heavy stream coming out of the drain pan and going into my 5-gallon storage container, it appeared black. And it looks black in the container. So the color may vary depending on whether you are looking through the oil or at it.

I actually save a small amount of oil from each change (I still dont know what I am going to do with it though..Im just a bit crazy) in a clear screw cap tube. The diameter is just bigger than a quarter, and 6 inches tall. Volume is about 100 mls.. This is what I use to judge the color.

I hold the tube and can see through the oil. I cant read a newspaper or anything through it, but I can see the graduation marks on the other side of the tube.



Anyone running the new standard for some the xB, the 5w20?

...I hold the tube and can see through the oil....

I would think that our oil must be the same color. We both have xBs with 4500 miles using Castrol oil and changed it after 2000 miles. You look at it a glass tube and call it translucent, while I look at it in a container and call it black.

An another matter, if we could really chose the color of our oil after 2000 miles, would it be better to have it clear or dark? I'll take mine dark.

The way the Mobil 1 is, I get a free oil change every 4 times because of the quart that is left over out of the 5 quart jug.

Shouldnt the tC be running synthetic if ya have a s/c?

Shouldnt the tC be running synthetic if ya have a s/c?I would for sure even without the S/C. I won't have a new vehicle that doesn't use synthetic. They are too expensive not to anymore.

the way it was explained to me was that mobil one synthetic is great oil. But not to switch to synthetic oil until my car hits 15k because everything needs to break in and seat properly which is harder to do with a synthetic. I'm sure this is debatable but it has worked well for me on alot of cars I've owned. Also most aftermarket filters Fram,STP,Mobil,to name a few are made at the same factory they are just sold under diffrent names. The only one I have heard isn't is puralator. The reason I know this is because my father owns a packaging company and they set up a stretch wrapping system in one of the oil filter plants. My reason for saying this is the factory filter is probably better than most aftermarket oil filters even if your running synthetic just run OEM filters. just my opinion and I respect everyone elses opinion.

I think my next oil change and on I am going to run synthetic 10w30

I think my next oil change and on I am going to run synthetic 10w30

Why would you use the wrong weight oil?

I know there are alot of people debating 5w-30 or 10w-30 on startup 10w-30 will be slower to reach the head of the engine but in hindsight it will also leak down from the head slower and bind to engine internals longer before draining into the oil pan. From what I understand our engines are pretty high compression and on startup need oil to the head fast so the lighter factory weight will reach the head faster. It will also circulate through the engine faster because it is lighter causing less stress on the oil pump. I'm not saying that the pump cannot handle 10w-30 by any means though. I would like to add in colder areas like colorado or new york new jersey vermont and so on in the winter 10w-30 will be alot thicker and you could possibly damage engine components. You should also see a loss in fuel economy by switching to the heavier oil of course most people in the forums have done enough mods to their cars that fuel economy isn't exactly a priority. I would say stay with what the factory recomends just switch to a synthetic. The engine desighners at toyota seem to be very intelligent and I'm sure they chose the oil weight for a good reason. the only time I could see swithcing to 10w-30 would be in a scion with over 100 thousand miles on it. In this situation there would be engine wear and wear on the cylinder walls and in the head that may actually benifit from a little bit heavier oil but even that may be dissproven I might also consider a heavier oil in a turbo or supercharger application during warm months. I would do research on high compression engines and heavier weight oil to make my final decision. Ultimatly it's your car and your choice let us know how it goes.

now that was interesting - anybody want to follow up on that?

I know there are alot of people debating 5w-30 or 10w-30 on startup 10w-30 will be slower to reach the head of the engine but in hindsight it will also leak down from the head slower and bind to engine internals longer before draining into the oil pan. From what I understand our engines are pretty high compression and on startup need oil to the head fast so the lighter factory weight will reach the head faster. It will also circulate through the engine faster because it is lighter causing less stress on the oil pump. I'm not saying that the pump cannot handle 10w-30 by any means though. I would like to add in colder areas like colorado or new york new jersey vermont and so on in the winter 10w-30 will be alot thicker and you could possibly damage engine components. You should also see a loss in fuel economy by switching to the heavier oil of course most people in the forums have done enough mods to their cars that fuel economy isn't exactly a priority. I would say stay with what the factory recomends just switch to a synthetic. The engine desighners at toyota seem to be very intelligent and I'm sure they chose the oil weight for a good reason. the only time I could see swithcing to 10w-30 would be in a scion with over 100 thousand miles on it. In this situation there would be engine wear and wear on the cylinder walls and in the head that may actually benifit from a little bit heavier oil but even that may be dissproven I might also consider a heavier oil in a turbo or supercharger application during warm months. I would do research on high compression engines and heavier weight oil to make my final decision. Ultimatly it's your car and your choice let us know how it goes.

If you look at the specs, 5W-30 is thicker than 10W-30 at operating temps on almost all brands.

Technically, They should be the same after they are warmed to operating temp. The first number is cold and the second is warm weights.

but he was saying that on startup ....how the thicker weight would be bad when cold.

Yes correct I take issue with 10w-30 on cold startup and use in the winter and cold climates. in the 1NZ-FE scion engines.

whenever i switch to synthetic (which will be as soon as I get to the 'yota dealer and pick up a filter) I'm going to do an oil analysis every so often to see if the oil is performing as it should (AMSOIL 5w-30 25k drain interval). If it does not meet specifications I'll let y'all know.

The New York Times did an article on motor oil and basically said that all of these companies making these guarantees are slowly but surely changing their m.o. about what the oil can do. The author said that its safe to say that the motor oil is safe to use for about half of the advertised length......just thought you all might be interested to know!

whenever i switch to synthetic... I'm going to do an oil analysis every so often to see if the oil is performing as it should (AMSOIL 5w-30 25k drain interval) ...

I was an Amsoil dealer for several years. Used it in my cars and bikes and sold it at bike rallies:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/roundel/21925669/

I would not do what you propose. The 25K interval will require a couple of messy filter changes using the special expensive Amsoil regular full-flow filters. The oil will still become very black, as filtering does not remove the finest particles that cause color.

If I remember correctly, the 25K drain interval may actually be for vehicles with a second Amsoil bypass oil filter, that filters the oil a drop at a time. There is no room for that item under the xB hood. Also, doing the oil analysis of the dregs in the regular filter is not cheap. That whole protocol of the two filters and analysis is good for crude commercial vehicles with large oil sumps where you have a dozen quarts invested, but I don't think it is appropriate for the xB with it's motorcycle-like jewel of an engine.

here is a silly question how long can you run synthetic say mobil on a factory oil filter safely will it go five thousand miles without a problem driving hard. since I assume the factory oil filter is about the best I can buy and everyone says synthetic is better and has gains in all areas how do I tackle the factory oil filter situation peoples experience would be of great help to alot of us. I think we all can debate oil filters and oil brands all day long. I'd like to see some combo results this oil this many miles this type of filter results noticed. I think that might help me and other people make better decisions because I have never heard of amsoil or ever seen it. recently my small town got royal purple but I have always run mobil synthetic but if there is a better brand I can buy at a local parts store and there is proof that it is better than mobil I'll switch.

whenever i switch to synthetic... I'm going to do an oil analysis every so often to see if the oil is performing as it should (AMSOIL 5w-30 25k drain interval) ...

I was an Amsoil dealer for several years. Used it in my cars and bikes and sold it at bike rallies:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/roundel/21925669/

I would not do what you propose. The 25K interval will require a couple of messy filter changes using the special expensive Amsoil regular full-flow filters. The oil will still become very black, as filtering does not remove the finest particles that cause color.

If I remember correctly, the 25K drain interval may actually be for vehicles with a second Amsoil bypass oil filter, that filters the oil a drop at a time. There is no room for that item under the xB hood. Also, doing the oil analysis of the dregs in the regular filter is not cheap. That whole protocol of the two filters and analysis is good for crude commercial vehicles with large oil sumps where you have a dozen quarts invested, but I don't think it is appropriate for the xB with it's motorcycle-like jewel of an engine.

Thank you for some good experienced input. The filtering issue you mention above is what I (and the good shops I know) try to get through to people. There are particles and byproducts that you cannot get out of the oil through normal filtering. And again, my purpose is to change the oil when it is in better shape than conventional oil would be.. so I dont use extended drain intervals.

Here is another good point... lets say you have a tiny leak in your head gasket somewhere subtle (and yes, I have seen cars driven 20k or more with a seeping head gasket). When antifreeze and water mix with oil.. it makes a nasty little acidic soup, that begins damaging your bottom end components. Or, lets say you are not oiling well.. then there are metal shavings. I use my oil changes as one way to "inspect" the inside of my engine. I would hardly go 25k without knowing what is going inside my internals.

actually just for laugh's and to test I did the 25,000 mile oil change in my last car I started it at about 115,000 mile and stopped at 168,000 when I sold it..no problems I usedall Champion Labs made filters I even sent one sample to Blacktone Labs to check the oil at one point... the oil was fine during the whole test......I went against every rule here LOL as I started synthetics late in the cars life....
PS the car now has well over 200,000 and going strong it is a 1994 Eagle Vision TSI

i just changed my oil. i'm at 16k, i've used up the 3 free oil changes and i like to do my own service.
i used mobil1 5w30 full synthetic, tc takes 4 quarts according to the book, which is very convenient
i bought a 10 pack of genuine tc oil filters from trdsparks, i figure thats all i will ever need for the life of the car (will probably trade it in 4 years from now)

i don't know if this is just in my head, but my shifts seem smoother, especially my 1st to second, after changing the oil....but i think it's in my head because i thought i'd have to change the tranny fluid to mt90 to get smoother shifts...anyone experience anything like this?

maybe the car is running a lil cleaner now.

here is a silly question how long can you run synthetic say mobil on a factory oil filter safely will it go five thousand miles without a problem driving hard.You can use any filter OTHER than the basic Fram Filter. You will have zero problems changing the filter and Mobil 1 at 5K intervals. This is what I'm doing and plan on getting 300K plus carefree miles.

I'd like to throw my 2 cents into the pot here...

I was given a 94 Buick Regal 3.8L V6 back in 2003 with 112k miles. It had ran dino oil all it's life. I switched to Mobil 1 Extended w/ Mobil 1 filter and changed every 10k miles. The engine is now at 183k miles and getting about 24MPG, as opposed to 19-20MPG when I started drivning it.

I have a 06 Scion xA on the way that I plan on switching to synthetic at 1k and changing every 7.5k. Why? Synthetic oil has an extended wear period. That is a fact. It has other benefits but in my eyes, that's the main reason to use it. The arguement about particles in the oil is a vaild one, but it's been misguided to the oil. If you are worried about particles in the oil, change the filter every 5k miles. Anything small enough to pass though the filter won't do much besides make the oil a little darker. That's a cheap, fool proof solution to allow you to use synthetic oil for it's intended purpose.

I'd like to throw my 2 cents into the pot here...

I was given a 94 Buick Regal 3.8L V6 back in 2003 with 112k miles. It had ran dino oil all it's life. I switched to Mobil 1 Extended w/ Mobil 1 filter and changed every 10k miles. The engine is now at 183k miles and getting about 24MPG, as opposed to 19-20MPG when I started drivning it.

I have a 06 Scion xA on the way that I plan on switching to synthetic at 1k and changing every 7.5k. Why? Synthetic oil has an extended wear period. That is a fact. It has other benefits but in my eyes, that's the main reason to use it. The arguement about particles in the oil is a vaild one, but it's been misguided to the oil. If you are worried about particles in the oil, change the filter every 5k miles. Anything small enough to pass though the filter won't do much besides make the oil a little darker. That's a cheap, fool proof solution to allow you to use synthetic oil for it's intended purpose.

Except particles aren't what cause the majority of engine wear, it's acid buildup from combustion, something that the filter doesn't remove.

so mobil 1 oil and filter can all be found at walmart and other local auto stores??

yep..

i didn't realize how expensive mobil 1 is. it's like $6 for 1 qt. but at walmart, it's $5 something for a qt. but for 5 qts, it's only $22. so i guess i'll just buy 5 quarts, use up 4 then save the remaining. however i couldn't find any mobil oil filter. can i just use the toyota one?

toyota oil filter is fine. i personally use that combination (mobil 1 5w-30 synthetic with OEM toyota oil filter) as well as many other people on this board.

The Toyota filters are great.
Go to trdsparks.com and get them in paks of 10 for ~$35.
Get the "yzzf1" units.

Scott

i got about 17,500 miles on my car now. and i didn't know about or learn about synthetic oil until a couple days ago. so is it too late too change now or will i still feel the difference and have an affect on the car?

i know it won't have an effect after 1 oil change but say 2 or 3???

It's not too late.
Go ahead and do it.
It's not like you'll get a new car using it, but mileage can increase slightly and the car often feels smoother.
It's just a better oil, IMHO.

Scott

If I have about 21K miles on my xB, will synthic oil cause any problems to the engine or whatever? My oil change is coming up and I want to switch over for added protection............I'm going for Mobil, Redline, Royal Purple.

Nope - in some older, high-mileage cars, you might have an issue with a leaky seal, but not on your Box.
Go for it and enjoy.

Scott

If I have about 21K miles on my xB, will synthic oil cause any problems to the engine or whatever? My oil change is coming up and I want to switch over for added protection............I'm going for Mobil, Redline, Royal Purple.For those who are late to know. It just means you broke your motors in longer. You'll still get the added benefits :clap:
Forget the expensive stuff. Mobil 1 is all our little motors will need.

Switched to Mobil 1 5w-20 at 11k miles.
Only put an additional 1500, maybe 2k since.. runs great.

Save some money, do it yourself, and stick with toyota filters.

As mentioned you can change to synth at any time and back if you want. The only time I have heard of a real issue was on older porche case seals.. which were known to leak anyway. Some people reported terrible leaks right after they changed to synth on higher mileage engines. But the data is pretty scarce and could point either way. Other than that I have never heard of an issue. I have taken cars with 100,000 miles on them and changed to synth.

Switched to Mobil 1 5w-20 at 11k miles. Only put an additional 1500, maybe 2k since.. runs great...
Synthetic oil will not make any immediate change or difference in the way an engine runs.
I have switched back and forth for many years on many cars and bikes. I break in on petroleum oil, change to synthetic oil, then after 5-10 years figure the vehicle is no longer worth the expensive oil.
Toyota recommends the oil grade that is marked on the filler cap. My xB was made in Feb 2006 according to the mfr's sticker on the door jamb, and the filler cap says 5W-30. The change to 5W-20 came later in Feb 2006 according to this tech bulletin:

------------------
Technical Service BULLETIN
TSB #ENG01-06
March 29, 2006
Title: ILSAC GF-4 ENGINE OIL RECOMMENDATION
Models: All ’06 – ’07 Toyota & Scion

Toyota Motor Corporation manufacturing plants have begun using ILSAC GF–4 engine
oil. This engine oil is recommended due to its superiority in terms of fuel economy and
engine protection and due to its benefits for both the customer and the environment.
ILSAC GF–4 can be used in all Toyota and Scion engines.

Applicable Vehicles: 2006 – 2007 model year Toyota and Scion vehicles.

Recommended Engine Oils: ILSAC GF–4 SAE 5W–20
This oil has been set as the Toyota genuine engine oil, starting in February 2006 for
the U.S. This oil is superior in terms of fuel economy, engine protection, and cold
starting performance.

NOTE:
􀀀 The recommended viscosity grade for this oil differs according to vehicle model.
Use the recommended grade specified on the oil filler cap or in the Repair Manual
or Owner’s Manual for each vehicle.
------------------------

So why doesn't Toyota recommend 5W-20 for pre-Feb 2006 xBs?
Might be some slight internal difference in the oil pump or passages or clearances.

^
My TC was manufactured February 2006 as well. This is why I made the switch to 5w-20.
As far as I know, there weren't any changes made during the month of Feb 06' that made the switch critical.. I read it was something with the fuel economy. At any rate, even though my cap says 5w-30.. I'm running 5w-20.

I wasn't saying the car ran any better with synthetic, was just saying it runs great.. it does.

Synthetics are better oils, and I don't mind paying for quality since I've invested so much in the vehicle already.

If your tC is an '06, it doesn't matter when it was made.
All '06 and up can use 5w20 - ALL.

Scott

So, I guess its ok if my 05 xB uses 5-20w? Toyota needs to make sense the first time around, lol.

So, I guess its ok if my 05 xB uses 5-20w? Toyota needs to make sense the first time around, lol.
What is there about TSB #ENG01-06 that does not make sense?
It says use 5W-20 if your car was made after Feb 2006 and says 5W-20 on the filler cap.
If there needs to be a second time around, how should the TSB be clarified?

As to whether you can use 5W-20 in your 2005, of course you can. But normally you trust the vehicle manufacturer to recommend what they feel is the best grade of oil for each engine they make, and apparently there was a change in Toyota and Scion engines in mid-Feb 2006 associated with the recommendation of lower viscosity 5W-20 oil. Changes that could make use of such thinner oil might be better ring design, tighter cylinder clearances, an improved oil pump, etc. Maybe using 5W-20 in an older engine would result in an increase in oil consumption.

im sure this has been answered somewhere but what weight oil does the dealer use? do they change the weight if the s/c is on the car?

What do you mean weight? How much oil the tC can hold? 4 quarts.

what type 10w30?

10w30 Royal Purple

There is a place by my house that I take my truck to - they use good products and have $24 oil changes - Im not going to the dealer for $37 oil change. So 10w30 is what they were using? .... and non-synthetic ...right?

5w30 for '05 and '06s
5w20 for '07s

$37 is very pricey for non-synthetic. DIY oil change with synthetic costs ~$20.

^ha - yea. Thats exactly my point. I have an 05 so 5w30 is gonna be it then. I want to stay w/ what the dealer is using for the next few years - then prob venture off from there.

5w30 for '05 and '06s
5w20 for '07s
No.
5w-20 for '06-07
5w-30 for '05.

"Applicable Vehicles: 2006 – 2007 model year Toyota and Scion vehicles.

Recommended Engine Oils: ILSAC GF–4 SAE 5W–20
This oil has been set as the Toyota genuine engine oil, starting in February 2006 for
the U.S. This oil is superior in terms of fuel economy, engine protection, and cold
starting performance."

Oops. I thought only '07s had 5w20 since they have a slightly different compression ratio, etc.

So, I guess its ok if my 05 xB uses 5-20w? Toyota needs to make sense the first time around, lol.
What is there about TSB #ENG01-06 that does not make sense?
It says use 5W-20 if your car was made after Feb 2006 and says 5W-20 on the filler cap.
If there needs to be a second time around, how should the TSB be clarified?

As to whether you can use 5W-20 in your 2005, of course you can. But normally you trust the vehicle manufacturer to recommend what they feel is the best grade of oil for each engine they make, and apparently there was a change in Toyota and Scion engines in mid-Feb 2006 associated with the recommendation of lower viscosity 5W-20 oil. Changes that could make use of such thinner oil might be better ring design, tighter cylinder clearances, an improved oil pump, etc. Maybe using 5W-20 in an older engine would result in an increase in oil consumption.

Actually, you're not reading it correctly.
The article came out in March, the recommendation changed in Feb. The article covers ALL 06 and 07 engines, not those from Feb-forward.
ANY 06 - including those made in 05 that are 06's are covered.

Scott

don't have impericle proof but i would imagine that the scion engines are the same from '04 on. i'd make a wager that the change is due to calculated fuel consumption reduction and the tax credits that would go along with making their product more oil friendly and less dependant on mideastern oil.

remember that to us an improvement of .5% increase in fuel economy would never be detectable multiplied over 500k units that makes a pretty big difference and since both the '06 and 07's are being sold as new and/or are being built they can get the tax benifits.

at any rate i use mobil1 and the mobil1 filter switched over at 43k if i recall

... The article came out in March, the recommendation changed in Feb. The article covers ALL 06 and 07 engines, not those from Feb-forward. ANY 06 - including those made in 05 that are 06's are covered....
If that is so, why would the TSB include that note saying:
NOTE:
􀀀 The recommended viscosity grade for this oil differs according to vehicle model.
Use the recommended grade specified on the oil filler cap or in the Repair Manual
or Owner’s Manual for each vehicle.

If Toyota wanted the 5W-20 to be used in pre-Feb 2006 cars, the note would have said:
Note:
Use 5W-20 no matter if the filler cap says 10W-30.

We don't know that, do we?
What we do know is that it says ALL, so I'll assume all is correct, as the dealer agreed with me.
Either way, my warranty won't be an issue with either one.
Both are acceptable.

Wasn't getting on your case - just raising the point that these things can be and are confusing.

Scott

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/Performance_Gallery/2006_Performance_Gallery_Winners.aspx

There's tons of testomony's in there from people that have used the oil from 10-15k with no problems whatsoever. I know it's a Mobil run site but still, I don't see any reason for them to make it all up because if they did lie and people where harmng their cars they would loose more money then they made because people would just stop buying their products. I'll take some pics of the oil for you guys next year when I drain it.


People can change at whatever interval they want when using synthetic, it their car. Just use some common sense. If you drive in heavy stop and go traffic, live in cold winters, take 2 years to drive 10k miles, etc etc you might want to change your oil a little earlier because that just common sense. There is more than one variable when it comes to when to change your oil. Oil like Mobil 1 synthetics are designed to go 10k-15k miles without a glitch. I would assume though they were testing under ideal conditions. No turbo engines, SC, etc... MB, BMW, Audi all have 10-15k mile oil change intervals on syn, high performance models require more frequent changes. You want a shocker, my wife's New Beetle 2.0 non turbo bug recommends 10k intervals after 10k miles on dino oil, not even synthetic. So if people are freaking out about changing syn oil between 10-15k imagine how I felt about VW's recommendation with dino oil. The bottom line is it is cheap insurance to change your oil and if you do your own oil changes even using syn will cost less than 30. But today most people don't even keep their cars for 5 years so it really doesn't matter. For those that want to keep their cars until the bearings wear out then it might be worth their time to baby the car.

Amsoil 0W/30 for me. First 2 oil changes were Mobil 1 5W/30, then change to Amsoil 0W/30. It's been about 15K and the engine idles much smoother than stock (after 6K it was quite rough), and engine temp. is a bit lower as noted by the needle.

Just my findings, so not saying it's what everyone should change to.

I've been using mobil 1 5w-30 for 25,000 miles now..

Oil manufacturers as well as car manufacturers feel a hard need to play to peoples sense of economy and oil usage. So coming out and saying thier car or oil can run on 10 - 15k intervals is great selling power. And hey, engine failure due to poor maintenance is hard to prove or disprove. The issues that would be attributed to it at those intervals would be well out of warranty, so what does the car company care? They dont. It wont cost them a dime down the road if your car only lasts 100k instead of 150k.

And as mentioned, its CHEAP insurance, you will ALWAYS benefit from overchanging your oil for the most part as far as reliability is concerned. So changing my Mobile 1 every 4k is cheap enough care for me. I do drive my cars till they die rather than trade them in every few years.. I like to actually own something and not make payments for a while. And even if I traded in or sold it, I dont want the buyer inheriting my bad maintenance, so either way I prefer to take care of them. Plus, when a potential buyer sees every reciept and record for every 4k interval oil change on synthetic, it is just more selling power.

^^Agreed. Amsoil claims a 25000 mile interval but I change mine every 4K. I don't trust the numbers. It's nice with synthetic that it can be stretched a bit over an interval that you do, but I would never let the oil stay in there for 25000. Not only do they not give a sh*t when they seel oil to you, but most manufacturers "forget" to tell you the life of the oil itself. Oil will break down on it's own without the help of your engine also. A lot of people don't know that but it's true.

... Oil will break down on it's own without the help of your engine also. A lot of people don't know that but it's true.
Interesting - please elaborate.

... Oil will break down on it's own without the help of your engine also. A lot of people don't know that but it's true.
Interesting - please elaborate.

http://www.carjunky.com/news/motor_oil/mom2.shtml



Petroleum oil begins to break-down almost immediately. A high quality synthetic, on the other hand, can last for many thousands of miles without any significant reduction in performance or protection characteristics. Synthetics designed from the right combination of basestocks and additives can last almost indefinitely with the right filtration system.

Synthetic oils, on the other hand, because they are not purified, but rather designed within a lab for lubrication purposes, are comprised of molecules of uniform size and shape. Therefore, even if a synthetic oil does burn a little, the remaining oil has the nearly the same chemical characteristics that it had before the burn off. There are no smaller molecules to burn-off and no heavier molecules to leave behind.

It's a very interesting article. Pertroleum based oils will break down naturally, where as synthetically manufactured oils can last almost forever..........with proper filtration.

OXIDATION AND DEPOSITS

Oxidation is the most important form of chemical breakdown of a motor oil and its additives. The chemicals in a motor oil are continuously reacting with oxygen inside an engine. The effects of oxidation due to this reaction as well as the by-products of combustion produce very acidic compounds inside an engine. These acidic compounds cause corrosion of internal engine components, deposits, changes in oil viscosity, varnish, sludge and other insoluble oxidation products that can cause a performance and durability degradation of your engine over a period of time. The products of oxidation are less stable than the original base hydrocarbon molecular structure and as they continue to be attacked by these acidic compounds can produce varnish and sludge.

This is why when you get an oil change at a shop or you go to a store and buy it, there are signs or employees that tell you to change your oil at 3000 miles OR 3 months. The 3 month time frame is for conventional, petroleum oil, and is extended with synthetics due to their different chemical make up and breakdown rate.



Hope all of this helps.

Also remember, that all synthetics are not necesarrily the same. Synth oils ARE dino oil, 100%. Nothing is made in the lab per se. They simply take the components needed from dino oil to end up with a good, synth oil. So they basically take dino, and remove the part you really want and need, which leads to the things mentioned above. The depth at which they do this I am sure can vary quite a bit.

^^Agreed

Also remember, that all synthetics are not necesarrily the same. Synth oils ARE dino oil, 100%. Nothing is made in the lab per se. They simply take the components needed from dino oil to end up with a good, synth oil. So they basically take dino, and remove the part you really want and need, which leads to the things mentioned above. The depth at which they do this I am sure can vary quite a bit.

Are you kidding?

Also remember, that all synthetics are not necesarrily the same. Synth oils ARE dino oil, 100%. Nothing is made in the lab per se. They simply take the components needed from dino oil to end up with a good, synth oil. So they basically take dino, and remove the part you really want and need, which leads to the things mentioned above. The depth at which they do this I am sure can vary quite a bit.

Are you kidding?

??? elaborate?

"Also remember, that all synthetics are not necesarrily the same. Synth oils ARE dino oil, 100%"

That's what I'm talking about.

"Also remember, that all synthetics are not necesarrily the same. Synth oils ARE dino oil, 100%"

That's what I'm talking about.

Oh ok. Yeah. Their base is, but their chemical additives are definately produced. Hence, "synthetic." Made in a lab and added to base petroleum oils.

... Oil will break down on it's own without the help of your engine also. A lot of people don't know that but it's true.
So oil breaks down sitting in an engine that does not run?
Does oil also break down just sitting in the can?

Also remember, that all synthetics are not necesarrily the same. Synth oils ARE dino oil, 100%. Nothing is made in the lab per se...
Wikipedia says synthetic oil can be made without using petroleum oil, as Germany did in WW2:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil
Amsoil says their synthetic oil is made from synthetic base stocks:
https://www.amsoil.com/frequent.aspx#whataresynth
SynLube also says "SynLube™ Synthetic Super Lubricants are 100% man-made Syn-Sols and NO petroleum is used in the production":
https://www.amsoil.com/frequent.aspx#whataresynth:

So some synthetic oils are made from enhanced petroleum oil, but other synthetic oils are made without petroleum.

... Oil will break down on it's own without the help of your engine also. A lot of people don't know that but it's true.
So oil breaks down sitting in an engine that does not run?
Does oil also break down just sitting in the can?

No, because the inside of an engine contains acids and other contaminants from combustion byproducts.

Oil in "cans" or otherwise known as bottles are in inert plastics which have no such contamination.

Scott

If the oil is made from group IV or V then it is a true synthetic. If it is made up of any base stock other then the above it is not synthetic. Now in the USA the word synthetic is only a marketing term so they can call anything they want to synthetic. This was not always the case and you have Castrol to thank for it. Most so called synthetics sold over the counter in the USA are not true synthetics. M1, Amsoil and Redline are all 100% synthetic and do NOT have any dino in them at all not even as a carrier for additives. If you review the groups and how they are processed it will explain a lot to you.

I borrowed an answer from a fellow oil-freak on another forum. That is the answer.
Synthetics MAY contain dino, but true synthetics are most assuredly NOT dino.

Scott

... Oil will break down on it's own without the help of your engine also. A lot of people don't know that but it's true.
So oil breaks down sitting in an engine that does not run? ... No, because the inside of an engine contains acids and other contaminants from combustion byproducts....
Didn't you mean to say "yes" -- the oil breaks down because of the acids and contaminates?
And don't you really mean to say "no" -- that clean oil cannot break down on its own, unless there is help from the engine to make the acids and contaminants?
Actually, acids and contaminants do not break down oil. The detergent additives in oil serve to neutralize acids and bond to contaminants to keep them in suspension. When the addditives are used up, the acidity will then rise and contaminants may settle out, but that does not break the oil itself down. Oil is broken by long use and heat that shear and cook the oil molecules.

Not only corrosive acids damage the oil, but just the air around it does as well. Oxidation, as I stated above, will react with the chemicals in the oil and break it down.

I am not sure about this, but even sitting on the shelf, because the quarts are not vacuum sealed, air can still penetrate the cap seal and oxidize the oil molecules. I've never opened an oil quart that was vacuum sealed, just that regular cap with lock seal.

But, I guess it would depend on how they put those sealed caps on too. Mason jars can be heated to have the air escape and form a seal on the lids without any type of plastic seal like when you open a ketchup bottle. Maybe they do something like that to preserve the shelf life of the oil.

As oxidation occurs, oil begins to break down chemically. You may not really be able to tell by site or color either, but if you feel oil that's been sitting out for about 2 weeks compared to oil just opened from a quart, the lubricity is totally different. One feels like you added water to it and the other feels like oil. With heat added to natural decompostition, it just keeps breaking down. It comes out black b/c of that and the varnish and sludge that forms in the engine as it breaks down.

I think it's a common misconception about that. The oil itself is not engineered per say, but all the chemical additives they add to the base oil are. Those are what are "synthesized" in labs.

Wikipedia:
Synthetic oil and synthetic blends

Synthetic lubricants were invented initially for high temperature gas turbine/jet engine applications where traditional mineral-derived lubricants provided inadequate performance. In the mid 1970s, synthetic motor oils were formulated and commercially applied for the first time in automotive applications. Improving the efficiency of lubricants, synthetic lubricants made wear and tear on gears far less than on the former petroleum based lubricants, reduced the incidence of oil oxidation and sludge formation, and allowed for extended drain intervals. Today, synthetic lubricants are used in modern day automobiles to lubricate nearly all lubricated components often with superior performance and longevity as compared to non-synthetic alternatives.

Instead of making motor oil with the conventional petroleum base, the molecules in the synthetic oil were artificially synthesized polyalpha-olefins, which are polymers specially designed to have improved motor oil properties. These polymers are made by bonding together alpha-olefin monomers which provide numerous flexible branching groups on the polymer molecule's backbone. Because this side branching interferes with the ability of the molecules to line up compactly next to each other, the flexible molecules can slide past each other more easily and the synthetic oil has good flow ability even at low temperatures. The molecules could be made large enough and "softer" to retain good viscosity at higher temperatures, yet the side branching interferes with solidification and therefore allows flow at lower temperatures. Thus, although the viscosity still decreases as temperature increases, these synthetic motor oils have a much improved viscosity index over the traditional petroleum base. Their specially designed properties allow a wider temperature range at higher and lower temperatures and often include a lower pour point. Because the viscosity changes much less with temperature, these synthetic oils need little or no viscosity index improvers that are used with the traditional petroleum based oils. The viscosity index improvers are the oil components most vulnerable to thermal and mechanical degradation as the oil ages and wears out. Because these synthetic oils have little or no viscosity improver content, they do not degrade as quickly as traditional motor oils. However, they still fill up with particulate matter like the conventional oils do, so the oil filter still fills and clogs up with time and must still be changed periodically. Synthetic oil still needs to be changed periodically; but some synthetic oil suppliers suggest the intervals between oil changes can be longer, sometimes as long as 10,000 - 15,000 miles between oil changes. The same SAE system for designating motor oil viscosity applies to synthetic oils also.

Tests have shown that this fully true synthetic oil is superior to conventional oil in many respects, providing better engine protection, performance, and better flow in cold starts than petroleum-based motor oil. Until recently the price difference between petroleum and synthetic motor oils was significant, however with the recent rise in the cost of petroleum the gap is closing. Since some companies of synthetic oil warrant their oils for extended drain intervals, then in the majority of situations synthetic oil actually saves the end consumer more money. Synthetic blend oil is a blend of full synthetic oil and conventional petroleum-based oil, a compromise between full synthetic quality and economy. The cost is intermediate between full synthetic oil and conventional oil. The benefits of synthetic oil are at least partially provided at a lower cost per oil change to the consumer.

Not only corrosive acids damage the oil, but just the air around it does as well... As oxidation occurs, oil begins to break down chemically. You may not really be able to tell by site or color either, but if you feel oil that's been sitting out for about 2 weeks compared to oil just opened from a quart, the lubricity is totally different. One feels like you added water to it Oxidation, as I stated above, will react with the chemicals in the oil and break it down. I am not sure about this, but even sitting on the shelf, because the quarts are not vacuum sealed, air can still penetrate the cap seal and oxidize the oil molecules. ...
Learn something every day. I am worried about a couple of cases of synthetic I bought on sale last year. I wonder if the oil has gone bad already.

If it's sealed, it should be ok. But again, that's questionable depending on the seal itself. What type of synthetic is it? Make sure it's in a dry, room temp area and you should be ok. Don't leave it out in the cold b/c cold air has more oxygen and could penetrate the cap more. Again, that's a theory of mine, but it sounds like it makes sense......haha

My other comment about oil sitting for 2 weeks was to say if it was sitting out in the open, exposed to the air, for 2 weeks. Sealed it should be ok.

... Oil will break down on it's own without the help of your engine also. A lot of people don't know that but it's true.
So oil breaks down sitting in an engine that does not run? ... No, because the inside of an engine contains acids and other contaminants from combustion byproducts....
Didn't you mean to say "yes" -- the oil breaks down because of the acids and contaminates?
And don't you really mean to say "no" -- that clean oil cannot break down on its own, unless there is help from the engine to make the acids and contaminants?
Actually, acids and contaminants do not break down oil. The detergent additives in oil serve to neutralize acids and bond to contaminants to keep them in suspension. When the addditives are used up, the acidity will then rise and contaminants may settle out, but that does not break the oil itself down. Oil is broken by long use and heat that shear and cook the oil molecules.

Meant to say YES, and oil goes bad inside of an even non-running engine.

... oil goes bad inside of an even non-running engine.
How long does that take?
Is there any way to tell when it has gone bad?
How often should oil be changed in a car that is in storage?
Or is it better to drain the oil out of the engine before storing a car?

... oil goes bad inside of an even non-running engine.
How long does that take?
Is there any way to tell when it has gone bad?
Is it better to drain the oil out of the engine before storing a car?

It depends on the oil, air temperature, humidity......many factors. Conventional is around the 3000 mile/3 month mark (90 or so days before it breaks down substantially). Synthetic all depends on the chemical additives.

Only way to tell is on a chemical level. You must be able to chemically seperate the oil from it's additives to see what you have left to what you started with. Also, flashpoint tests will change as the oil ages, viscosity will deminish, ...and more.

That I would say no. If you're storing your car, it is a good idea to have it started periodically (2-3 time per month). If that's not possible, I would then check with a good mechanic or high performance auto owners club. If they store their cars, they want them kept in top shape so they would know who to ask. I would say not to drain though, b/c the oil in there also prevents any rust build up from excess humidty and moisture in the environment. It all depends.

... oil goes bad inside of an even non-running engine.
How long does that take?
Is there any way to tell when it has gone bad?
Is it better to drain the oil out of the engine before storing a car?
It depends on the oil, air temperature, humidity......many factors. Conventional is around the 3000 mile/3 month mark (90 or so days before it breaks down substantially). ..
How long does conventional oil stay good in the non-running engine that you were talkiing about?

^ a few months. (3-4ish) - it all depends on the oil.

... oil goes bad inside of an even non-running engine.
How long does that take?
Is there any way to tell when it has gone bad?
Is it better to drain the oil out of the engine before storing a car?
It depends on the oil, air temperature, humidity......many factors. Conventional is around the 3000 mile/3 month mark (90 or so days before it breaks down substantially). ..
How long does conventional oil stay good in the non-running engine that you were talkiing about?


About 3 months before it breaks down a good bit and loses a lot of it's lubricity factors.

Viscosity?

Viscosity?
Like 5W-30 changing to 5W-20?

By factors, I meant all the chemicals added into the synthetic to give it a certain viscosity. The film/viscosity of an oil that leaves a lubricating "shield" between metal parts will begin to thin so it could break down in oil weight. i.e. 5w/30 to 0w/20 and so on. But that wouldn't be that huge of a deal. I run 0W/30 now. It's the chemcials that either burn away, react with O2 and turn into acid or sludge..........that's what will begin to break the lubricity of the oil.

... oil goes bad inside of an even non-running engine.
How long does that take?
It depends on the oil, air temperature, humidity......many factors. Conventional is around the 3000 mile/3 month mark (90 or so days before it breaks down substantially). ..
How long does conventional oil stay good in the non-running engine that you were talkiing about? About 3 months before it breaks down a good bit and loses a lot of it's lubricity factors.
....It's the chemcials that either burn away, react with O2 and turn into acid or sludge..........that's what will begin to break the lubricity of the oil.
The first question was, in the non-running engine, how long does the oil stay good, and you answered it was 3 months.
The next question was, after 3 months sitting in the non-running engine, what makes fresh clean oil lose its "lubricity"?

^ its not moving so its settling in a metal container. Something not moving will break down. Thats why oil comes in a plastic container that is sealed.

Also, the fact that oxygen is continually around the engine inside and out, it's constantly reacting with the oil whether sitting still or while the engine is on. That's what keeps it constantly breaking down and what will make it lose it's lubricity. If you could vacuum seal your motor, then yes, your engine oil would basically "never" break down. But, since there's always O2 in the air around the oil, it will break down no matter what.

... after 3 months sitting in the non-running engine, what makes fresh clean oil lose its "lubricity"?
^ its not moving so its settling in a metal container. Something not moving will break down. Thats why oil comes in a plastic container that is sealed.
Also, the fact that oxygen is continually around the engine inside and out, it's constantly reacting with the oil whether sitting still or while the engine is on. That's what keeps it constantly breaking down and what will make it lose it's lubricity. If you could vacuum seal your motor, then yes, your engine oil would basically "never" break down. But, since there's always O2 in the air around the oil, it will break down no matter what.
Some of those plastic oil containers are leaking oil in the store. I always ask for double bagging on those, but never realized that oil was losing lubricity on the shelf. In the old days oil came sealed in foil-lined cardboard cans with flat metal ends you had to open with a churchkey can opener. Maybe that was to keep the oxygen out.

Yeah, most likely. Just like K&W Motorflush; it comes in what looks like a coffee can and air tight. I think that is why they store it like that.

is lubricity even a word?

is lubricity even a word?


yup.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define%3A+lubricity

Sorry all, i just read the thread entirely. Imo, what is most important is that 5w30 is 5w30 whether or not it's conventional or synthetic oil. However, synthetic oil should lenghten the "main seal" life. I could be wrong.

^ im wondering really if 5w30 is what should be used w/ the s/c because the last few days have been cold and I was getting this gear sound for the first ten min that my car was running. After the oil warmed up (i guess thats the reason) the noise went away. It was warmer today ....no noise... go figure.

I ran my 80 Rabbit on Castrol 20w50 for 6-8k per oil change drove it 163k miles and it didn't smoke even without a cat on it - it rusted away before the engine failed from lube failure. Typically I would change the oil twice a year and the filter once a year. On my xB I broke it in with the factory oil and changed to Synlube 5w50 and I should be changing the oil again in about 150,000 miles or 15 years with only a filter change at 36,000 and 75,000 miles.

^ cant wait to hear people w/ this one.

I ran my 80 Rabbit on Castrol 20w50 for 6-8k per oil change drove it 163k miles and it didn't smoke even without a cat on it - it rusted away before the engine failed from lube failure. Typically I would change the oil twice a year and the filter once a year. On my xB I broke it in with the factory oil and changed to Synlube 5w50 and I should be changing the oil again in about 150,000 miles or 15 years with only a filter change at 36,000 and 75,000 miles.
I spit up my beer.

hahaha, whatever works for him. I, personally, would NEVER do that to my car.

EVERYTHING BREAKS DOWN..............mechanical and chemical.

i'm almost at 30,000 miles....is it bad if i change to synthetic now?? or should i just keep using what the dealers been giving me...???

Yeah well if you guys knew that your cars COME with really good synthetic oil . . . then you wouldn't be asking about changing it or throwing away perfectally good oil too soon just to put more synthetic in it again.
Check out the www.synlube.com site about how and why oil breaks down . . . it will change your ideas about oil.

It's too much of a standard for me and any car I work on. 3000 conventional and at most 6000 synthetic are my intervals. I choose to keep constant intervals to make sure the oil stays "new."

Changing to synthetic after 30K shouldn't hurt or do anything to your car. It's on higher mileage motors that are used to having conventional oil and then the change would cause leaks. Oil seals and gaskets swell to certain points with different oil compounds. If your conventional oil has something that the new synthetic doesn't, then the seals and gaskets may shrink and b/c synthetic oil is normally thinner than conventional oil anyways, it will leak out slowly. This is coming from personal experience with 3 vehicles of my own, 2 changing to synthetic and then back after it leaked.

So I'm okay since I changed to synthetic when the tC was as low as 5k?

Yeah, there's no real set number to do it. Some people change back and forth and don't have any leaks or any problems. Mine began to leak from the rear main seal on both cars. It just seemed like too much of a coincedence so I change it 3-5K all the time now.

Don't think of your tC with 30,000 as being old - it is a new car still so changing it should not matter - the rubber seals haven't aged yet!

Yeah, sorry. Forgot to mention that my vehicles were around 90K when I did the swap. Sorry.

ok cool! thanks for the replies. I'll probably perform the change some time soon.

going Mobile 1 when i hit 1000.

I swtiched to Mobil 1 after my first free oil change. I should have used up the other 2 but the dealership closest to me has crappy service. I switched to Mobil 1 Fully Synthetic after 3k.

I may go with the royal purple oil when my 3 freebies are up. Ive heard good things. I used Mobile 1 full synth for years in my Trans Am, its good stuff to.

BIG controversy online over M1 "MAYBE" being a Group III and not 100% synthetic/synthetic basestock.

Doesn't mean M1 isn't still a great oil, or that I will change, but it will be interesting to see what happens with this.

In the oil world, this is becoming a big one - more to come...

Scott

I have a little over 6k on Synlube reaching 10k before the end of the month and it still seems to be working great. If you really want to change . . . change all the way and get away from the dino drippings altogether . . . and almost forget about changing it again too . . . well as least for 150k or 15 years whichever comes first.

I have a little over 6k on Synlube reaching 10k before the end of the month and it still seems to be working great. If you really want to change . . . change all the way and get away from the dino drippings altogether . . . and almost forget about changing it again too . . . well as least for 150k or 15 years whichever comes first.


The only problem I see in leaving oil in for longer intervals would be, not necessarily the oil itself breaking down, but the filter not filtering anything out after a while. The longer you keep the filter/oil in, the more "left overs" begin to form within your engine due to slight burn off, dust from air intakes leading into valve cover, overall viscosity breakdown....ect. B/c you can't change the filter without losing a good bit of oil, have you ever had any problem with filter bypass or complete filter failure?

Just a question.

Yeah the filter is a lot bigger than the stock filter and is a 5-8 micron synthetic filter element and has added Neo magnets on the outside to retain metal particles. The filter actually gets changed at 36k and 75k with the initial 36k change removing the last of the dino original oil which will have broken down and gotten trapped in it by then. I did drain the engine over night and then jacked up the left side of my xB to get the last bit out of the oil pan. There was quite a bit in there until I jacked it up - maybe half a cup. When I do change the filter I plan on draining it pretty well and then saving the lube that comes out of it. Will let you know in about 3 years!! OMG it does take some time to get used to the idea that I don't have to change the oil for such a long time. BTW it ends up costing about HALF of conventional oil in the long run AND you get better gas mileage which saves even more money. Plus all that time changing the oil and getting rid of the old oil which is pretty toxic.

Yeah, I've been taught and still do the changes for conventional around 3K and synthetic around 5K so I'll stick to that.

Good luck with your car and keep us updated on any work needed or whatever due to oil problems. (not saying there will be any) Just trying to get different views of what can happen depending on different oil change intervals.

It is a proven product - the formulation has not changed since 1992 and other Synlube products are used on the Moon and Mars rovers. If you check out the Synlube.com site there is a long explaination on what happens to oil and why it breaks down. The one thing that is weird is that the stuff is black and it stays black but it makes it easy to check the level on the dip stick. Oh and you don't want to have any leaks $$$ - my biggest fear is bringing the xB in for some other non-oil related service and they drain it out ARGGGG!!! Need to weld the drain plug in or something.

hahaha :rofl:

Synlube is still working great past 10,000 miles and closing in on 11,000 miles - have some long trips this summer planned so I should be racking up more miles. It is amazing how quiet the engine is at idle you can barely hear it running and the gas mileage has pretty much leveled off at about 42-43mpg average per tank.