My Hotchkis swaybars are on the way and I was wondering about whether I should install both or just the rear. I read a few posts about this and am still a little confused. What effect does each have and why would one not want to install the front sway on the xB? Has anyone rolled with just a rear sway? I'd be interested to hear how it went.

i think probably because the front is alot harder to install than the rear. i was looking under my car the other day and it doesn't look toooo hard, but better to not risk your car and a screwy job. i think the rear is pretty easy to get on... just the bolts are tucked down so you gotta stick the nut on with tape inside the socket or whatever... someone posted on this before about getting that nut in there.

Yup. I read that thread as well, but was more concerned with some of the things that I read about the merits of a front sway. Some were of the opinion that this was not a good idea. Below is a link to the discussion I was talking about (it also discusses strut tower bar). I suppose I was wondering if anyone else had any opinions as to whether it was actually a good idea NOT installing the front sway and only going with the rear for a Hotchkis install. Are these bars designed to work together?

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8319

well, pretty sure they are designed to work together if they come together...

waiting for stylis to get in here and help... think he knows some more about these sway bars. i just know what i've read from people, but i'm pretty sure you're gonna want both on there.

i believe they can go together b/c what are we lava owners to do take the strut bar off to install the sways? i plan on doing the rear install but haven't got the balls to do the front with my lack of tools and all.

I have the Hotchkis bars on both of my cars and tend to think they are designed to work together. Of course the rear bar on the xB is somewhat slinny, but it was designed to compliment the stock bar. If you don't install the front bar, you will have some degree of oversteer. My preference would be to install both.

try it and see, its the only way to know.

the optimal swaybar setup will depend on your springs, tires, and use of the car.

Install them as a set. I was really worried about doing it too but decided on trying. The back is super easy. A trick my son did was to use thread to pull the bolt through the one in the back. It works! The front was easier than I thought. We took our time and took about 2-3 hours to do. Just take your time and you'll get through it. Good luck and enjoy the handling afterwards. :D

Thanks all for the replies. Re-reading my posts I seem to have been a little unclear. I am not concerned with the difficulty of the install. Well perhaps I am, but that is a separate issue all together. I am more interested in understanding opinions such as these:
Overall though, IMO, in most front wheel drive cars the ideal set up is a stiff antisway bar in the rear with a real IRS (mac struts or d-wishbone-- NOT torsion beam) and no front swaybar at all. Front swaybars don't do anything but contribute to oversteer in a front wheel drive, front engine car. I don't know why the hell they even make them for the aftermarket. What for? To give you some training wheels if you're a sucky driver? You might as well leave the suspension stock then and save your money.

Stiff rear anti-sway and a coat hanger or nothing in the front, that's the way to go if you're experienced and know your car well enough to take it close to the edge safely and know when to back off.


I will most likely install both bars, but thought some one might want to comment on the above quote from a previous discussion.

stiffer chassis in the rear promotes over steering. stiffer in the front encourages understeering.

yeah, he is wrong.


Thanks all for the replies. Re-reading my posts I seem to have been a little unclear. I am not concerned with the difficulty of the install. Well perhaps I am, but that is a separate issue all together. I am more interested in understanding opinions such as these:
Overall though, IMO, in most front wheel drive cars the ideal set up is a stiff antisway bar in the rear with a real IRS (mac struts or d-wishbone-- NOT torsion beam) and no front swaybar at all. Front swaybars don't do anything but contribute to oversteer in a front wheel drive, front engine car. I don't know why the hell they even make them for the aftermarket. What for? To give you some training wheels if you're a sucky driver? You might as well leave the suspension stock then and save your money.

Stiff rear anti-sway and a coat hanger or nothing in the front, that's the way to go if you're experienced and know your car well enough to take it close to the edge safely and know when to back off.


I will most likely install both bars, but thought some one might want to comment on the above quote from a previous discussion.

Thanks all for the replies. Re-reading my posts I seem to have been a little unclear. I am not concerned with the difficulty of the install. Well perhaps I am, but that is a separate issue all together. I am more interested in understanding opinions such as these:
Overall though, IMO, in most front wheel drive cars the ideal set up is a stiff antisway bar in the rear with a real IRS (mac struts or d-wishbone-- NOT torsion beam) and no front swaybar at all. Front swaybars don't do anything but contribute to oversteer in a front wheel drive, front engine car. I don't know why the hell they even make them for the aftermarket. What for? To give you some training wheels if you're a sucky driver? You might as well leave the suspension stock then and save your money.

Stiff rear anti-sway and a coat hanger or nothing in the front, that's the way to go if you're experienced and know your car well enough to take it close to the edge safely and know when to back off.


I will most likely install both bars, but thought some one might want to comment on the above quote from a previous discussion.

OK, here I go. The front swaybar on our vehicles is for our own benefit and really this person is talking about drifting and/or racing. So do you really think your xB is going to be on the autobahn anytime soon. The sway bars are for our benefit to better ground control on the turns when we need them. And the hotchkis swaybar set-up feels great, I have the set-up and let me tell you that it's not going to be easy for you to install the front, but after everything is installed you'll know after the first drive that it was worth it. 8)

nope, he isn't talking about racing either. He is just taking a rule of thumb he heard about bigger front bars adding understeer, and adding another thing he heard about FWD cars having understeer problems, and coming to a totally wrong conclusion.

nobody even knows what the effective rates of the hotchkiss bars are so you can't really even begin to debate how they will function. you can only try it and see.



OK, here I go. The front swaybar on our vehicles is for our own benefit and really this person is talking about drifting and/or racing. So do you really think your xB is going to be on the autobahn anytime soon. The sway bars are for our benefit to better ground control on the turns when we need them. And the hotchkis swaybar set-up feels great, I have the set-up and let me tell you that it's not going to be easy for you to install the front, but after everything is installed you'll know after the first drive that it was worth it. 8)

coming to a totally wrong conclusion.

I had come to no conclusion whatsoever! Thats why I asked the question in the first place. Given the responses that I have gotten here I will install both bars, but I just thought I'd run this by some folks given what I had read in other posts about this.

Minsk --- if it would help and since you are close by to me, you are more than welcome to see if you like how my xB handles with the front and rear installed. I could listen to your Borla while we're at it... :D ! Are you installing this weekend?

Al.Truistic
aB

coming to a totally wrong conclusion.

I had come to no conclusion whatsoever! Thats why I asked the question in the first place. Given the responses that I have gotten here I will install both bars, but I just thought I'd run this by some folks given what I had read in other posts about this.

nobody even knows what the effective rates of the hotchkiss bars are so you can't really even begin to debate how they will function. you can only try it and see.

How can you say that, since so many people have the swaybars already. :? Haven't you noticed the many topics on swaybars and how many people have replied yes I have them. Have you even driven an xB with the bars on? So how can you even debate this yourself? :?

coming to a totally wrong conclusion.

I had come to no conclusion whatsoever! Thats why I asked the question in the first place. Given the responses that I have gotten here I will install both bars, but I just thought I'd run this by some folks given what I had read in other posts about this.


not you
the guy you quoted

nobody even knows what the effective rates of the hotchkiss bars are so you can't really even begin to debate how they will function. you can only try it and see.

How can you say that, since so many people have the swaybars already. :? Haven't you noticed the many topics on swaybars and how many people have replied yes I have them. Have you even driven an xB with the bars on? So how can you even debate this yourself? :?

I don't trust anyones opinion here as to whether or not their car handles better after a given modification.

swaybars reduce roll stiffness and it always FEELS good and stiff, but that doesn't mean the car is quicker or better balanced.

Don't mean to offend I just don't think many people here have much experience with actual racing.

I can tell you my experiences so far with just the hotchkiss rear swaybar combined with the ground control springs . The car does have a tad more oversteer tendency, but the rear suspension is so bizarre that it really doesn't do much goood. the rear seems to bind and then hop at the limit. Part of this may be due to me having very sticky street tires.

I'll put the front bar on eventually and post about whether or not the car feels too understeery in that configuration.

but again, if you don't have the same springs and tires as me, your results may vary

but, in the end, if you don't really race, all that really matters is if it feels good to you, and typically stiffer swaybars always feels better to people. so go for it =)

nobody even knows what the effective rates of the hotchkiss bars are so you can't really even begin to debate how they will function. you can only try it and see.

How can you say that, since so many people have the swaybars already. :? Haven't you noticed the many topics on swaybars and how many people have replied yes I have them. Have you even driven an xB with the bars on? So how can you even debate this yourself? :?

I don't trust anyones opinion here as to whether or not their car handles better after a given modification.

swaybars reduce roll stiffness and it always FEELS good and stiff, but that doesn't mean the car is quicker or better balanced.

Don't mean to offend I just don't think many people here have much experience with actual racing.

I can tell you my experiences so far with just the hotchkiss rear swaybar combined with the ground control springs . The car does have a tad more oversteer tendency, but the rear suspension is so bizarre that it really doesn't do much goood. the rear seems to bind and then hop at the limit. Part of this may be due to me having very sticky street tires.

I'll put the front bar on eventually and post about whether or not the car feels too understeery in that configuration.

but again, if you don't have the same springs and tires as me, your results may vary

but, in the end, if you don't really race, all that really matters is if it feels good to you, and typically stiffer swaybars always feels better to people. so go for it =)

jackmott- You need to understand also that you have a 14,000 dollar car and you want Corvette results, its not going to happen. And your experience on racing means that you are used to cars that have independent suspension and 200+HP. So you need to adjust yourself for this car. :roll:

You also need to get the front sway bar and then lets talk about over steer and why are you using Falkens in the heat that your in. Falkens are like the cheapest tires you can use, why not the perelli's or the Yokohama's? Are you sponcered by falken? Is that why? ---------I'm done with you man. :roll:

Now Now Ladys. Behave.

Hotchkis designed these bars, they didn't just find some left over bar stock and bend them to fit an xB. These people have a fairly good idea about whats going on under a car. I would say that you made a good investment buying the sway bar set, why waste half your money and half their engineering experience.

Yes your tires/rims/springs/struts will all make a difference in the outcome. But I would put the bars on first, make your judgement, then if you decide to only leave one in, put the stock one back. No big deal.

Oh and if you remove both of your new sway bars... sell them to me cheap ok cause I want some.

Now Now Ladys. Behave.

Hotchkis designed these bars, they didn't just find some left over bar stock and bend them to fit an xB. These people have a fairly good idea about whats going on under a car. I would say that you made a good investment buying the sway bar set, why waste half your money and half their engineering experience.

Yes your tires/rims/springs/struts will all make a difference in the outcome. But I would put the bars on first, make your judgement, then if you decide to only leave one in, put the stock one back. No big deal.

Oh and if you remove both of your new sway bars... sell them to me cheap ok cause I want some.

your right man. :oops: i feel dumb now. jackmott next time i visit my family in El Paso, i'll stop by your area to have a few coronas with ya. on me!
:D

Hee hee... :D Also, I think some people here have xAs.