Well, to tell the truth, I like the looks of this new Camry, but the hybrid model stinks. EPA for the hybrid is 43mpg city & 37mpg highway. Given the extra cost for the hybrid model, thats actually quite pathetic. You can almost get that rating with a standard corolla or a Scion xA for much much less. Cant Toyota do better than that??

Other auto makers also showed a bunch of new hybrid models at this years Detroit Auto Show & they were all pretty terrible. Most of them were big SUV's or trucks that all get around 27-32mpg. Wow, im like so NOT impressed.

These auto makers are going about this hybrid thing all wrong, even Toyota. Why do they have to spend all this money & effort to put hybrid engines into big a$$ SUVs or cars that didnt get good mpg to begin with? Are people really gonna be that impressed & pay allot extra for an SUV that gets........*Drum Roll*..........28mpg!!!!??? Thats moronic.

Why the hell cant they come out with a hybrid version of a car that already gets great gas milege so we would see a bigger benefit in mpg? Like Corolla, xA, xB, etc. I swear, if they came out with an xB hybrid version that cost a couple thousand more, I would totally get it & I think allot of other people would too. The mpg would be a huge increase! Or better yet, a diesel hybrid would be outstanding. But, are they working on this? NO! But hey, they got a new Saturn Vue hybrid that gets a whopping 27mpg. Sheesh.

I dont understand what they are thinking. This isnt helping the situation at all. Link to new hybrid models at Detroit Auto Show (http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-11443_7-6418184-1.html?tag=ss). Very unimpressive.

Well, the hybrid camry is rated at 192hp, so 43/37mpg isn't really shabby at all. Also, you're comparing completely different sizes/classes of vehicles when you were comparing the camry to the corolla and the xa -- both of those cars cannot hold nearly as much stuff and/or sit people as comfortably as the camry. The Hybrid Camry offers quite a bit more power (but is quite a bit heavier than the other two models), more space, most likely more refined driving dynamics (if it's anything like the current gasoline model, it will be very refined), and good gas mileage to go along with that.

Hydrids are not all entirely about high MPG. If you want high MPG go buy a diesel...except available diesel models in the US is scarce compared to the rest of the world. The Camry Hybrid is able to attain Advance Technology Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle status...similar to the Prius. The new GS430H(?) only gets a Super Low Emissions Vehicle status. However the GSH is more performance oriented. The xB only gets Low EV status.

If I buy a hybrid, high MPG will not be at the top of the requirement:
#1. Emissions rating
#2. Power/torque delivery at 0-40MPH (get up 'n go).

Well, the hybrid camry is rated at 192hp, so 43/37mpg isn't really shabby at all. Also, you're comparing completely different sizes/classes of vehicles when you were comparing the camry to the corolla and the xa -- both of those cars cannot hold nearly as much stuff and/or sit people as comfortably as the camry. The Hybrid Camry offers quite a bit more power (but is quite a bit heavier than the other two models), more space, most likely more refined driving dynamics (if it's anything like the current gasoline model, it will be very refined), and good gas mileage to go along with that.
Well, its true that the xA/xB and Camry are in different classes, but I dont think they are that different when it comes to space & sitting people comfortably. Especially with the xB & its tons of front/rear legroom & headroom. And as far as actual usable space, the xB wins hands down because the trunk & cabin are combined. You can put large items in an xB that you could never put in a Camry, just because its a car with a trunk VS a sorta mini-mini van with a hatch.

I just think they are concentrating on power too much & not enough on fuel efficiency. Not everyone needs a 192hp Camry Hybrid with an MSRP of $25,000. They are just scaring away potential hybrid customers. But with gas prices the way they are, most people just want a nice, fuel-efficent car that will get them around & not have to pay a fortune for it. Toyota (and others) are missing out on a potential revolution for the hybrid industry. The time is right for them to release a consumer-based hybrid.

Why cant they do that?? The new Toyota Yaris would be perfect because its already priced super low (like $10,500 base) and gets awesome mpg already. Add a couple extra thousand onto that price for a hybrid model & that would be something everyone could afford. Think of it. The added cost to put in a hybrid engine is around $3,000-$4,000. So, that would be a brand new Toyota Yaris Hybrid for about $15,000 that would probably get at least 60mpg (or more). If that ever happened, Toyota couldnt make enough of them because they would sell like crazy.

Everyone now knows about hybrids. Gas prices arent coming down ever again. The market is ready for a consumer-based hybrid now.

Hydrids are not all entirely about high MPG. If you want high MPG go buy a diesel...except available diesel models in the US is scarce compared to the rest of the world. The Camry Hybrid is able to attain Advance Technology Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle status...similar to the Prius. The new GS430H(?) only gets a Super Low Emissions Vehicle status. However the GSH is more performance oriented. The xB only gets Low EV status.

If I buy a hybrid, high MPG will not be at the top of the requirement:
#1. Emissions rating
#2. Power/torque delivery at 0-40MPH (get up 'n go).
No offense, but you are not the norm. Most people buy hybrids because of the improved fuel economy. The low emissions rating is a given & an added bonus. Thats the whole point of shelling out the extra cash for a hybrid. For most people, anyway.

plus in some states Hybrid owners get tax brakes

This is not really any sort of news or press release or article. Moving...

(BTW... 28 mpg for an SUV IS pretty good. Go look up some other ones)

If you add the weight of the battery pack to a Yaris, you will most likely loose the great mileage you once had.

It is well known that most people in this country don't base their car buying decisions on mileage. It is a concern, but it is not the deal breaker. Why else do families of 3 get a huge SUV? Because they want it.
Same goes for 500+ hp cars...They have never been more plentiful.

The statement was made that gas prices will never come down again... Just less than 6 months ago it was over $3 a gallon, so it can come down.

People care about mpg because a higher mpg saves money, right? So the goal is to save money...


Buying hybrids nowadays won't save you money because you still pay extra for the hybrid technology and gas isn't expensive enough to make up the difference....at least for now.

People care about mpg because a higher mpg saves money, right? So the goal is to save money...


Buying hybrids nowadays won't save you money because you still pay extra for the hybrid technology and gas isn't expensive enough to make up the difference....at least for now.

:no: you save in the long run

Not really when the break even is about 5 years down the road..If you trade before then you lost.

Personally, I'd love to see what they could do with the diesel hybrid. Run that bad boy on man made fuels.... And the torque you can get out of them........That would be a trip!

People usually buy hybrids to make a statement. Thats why the Prius is the best selling hybrid. As stated above, you don't really save money by purchasing a hybrid.

The only thing I like about hybrids are that in CA, those that get >45mpg can drive in the HOV/carpool lane with only the driver in the car.

Besides that, I dont like the added weight of the batteries, added cost, and slow acceleration time.

just my 2 cents..
some families need an SUV. can you leagaly fit 6 or 7 people in an xB or xA? and some need towing capability. i know someone that would love to have more fuel efficient car but that won't pull a 5000-10000lb horse trailer.
Plus this america, we have freedom of choice and if someone can afford something then why shouldn't the get what they work hard to have. i know its a touchy subject and i expect the hate posts to start any min lol...

oh and 28mpg for a decent size SUV is really good.

No hate from me tC.....You made a very good point.

I think that peestandingup is mostly mistaken.

Hybrids, whether you like it or not, ARE the future of automotive technology. It improves economy, improves power production, and vastly improves emissions. The environmental impact is the greatest benefit to hybrid technology, with power and economy coming in second. A sedan that gets 44mpg? An SUV that gets 28mpg? How is either of those things bad? Those are called improvement. Evolution.

Now let's look at the numbers. So instead of making the most popular car in America in hybrid, you would take a car with already great fuel economy and tack on 50% to the price. Brilliant.

And where did you get the $25K price tag for the Camry Hybrid? Toyota has not released ANY pricing information on that car. Your argument holds no water until the facts come out.

Yes, hybrid technology costs more. But only for a little while longer. Our technology is advancing at such a rapid rate, our production rates will follow very quickly. Pretty soon, it will odd for a car to NOT be hybrid. You watch - Toyota ALREADY dictates what happens in the automotive world. We've decided (correctly) that hybrid technology is what is the future. Once the rest of the industry gets on board, it will be obvious.

LATER

When I see hybrid technology going into SUVs and other larger, inefficient vehicles, I see the technology going into the vehicles that need it most.

If one has an actual need for the size and capabilities of an SUV (as I did with my engineering job, etc.) It would be nice to get reasonable mileage.

Improving the milage capabilities of a larger vehicle saves the fuel of several small ones, and does more overall good.

Think of it as if the manufacturer were to eventually turn their entire line into high-milage vehicles.

One starts at the small, reasonably priced end to 'prove the concept' (Prius), and once that is done one makes the changes where it will have that most overall effect: High volume vehicles with mediocre mileage (Camry, etc.), and vehicles with very poor milage (SUVs, etc.).

The only way making a Camry into a higher milage vehicle, while still being a Camry, is to retain the reasons people buy that particular line, and that includes it's performance. One does NOT do it by making it a stripped down 100HP econo-car... One makes a Camry that simply gets better milage and retains (or improves) on the expected performance and features.

It's a business, folks, and that business is one of selling a LOT of cars... :D

I still think hybrids today are heavily hyped up.

Most hybrids have good mpg because they lack horsepower. The same applies to standard ICEs.

Once the new EPA mileage testing standards are revised in 08, we will all see that the perceived mileage benefit isnt really that great for hybrids.

With respect to the environment, what do you say about the batteries that all hybrids have. Where will they be disposed of? How toxic are they?

How do you figure that hybrids lack horsepower? The Highlander Hybrid is FASTER than the gas version, doing 0-60 in 7.2 seconds! The new Camry Hybrid will have somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 MORE HP than the standard gas car.

You must be thinking of the Insight and Civic hybrids. The Accord Hybrid is the fastest in that lineup as well.

Guys, im all for improving gas milege in ALL vehicles, including SUVs. Im just trying to make the point that there is currently no consumer-based hybrid. Everything right now is power power power. Thats all good, but im just saying lots of people dont need all that.

And YES, gas prices will NEVER come down. Just because prices are below $3 now, dont mean much. Dont you worry, we will see those prices again soon. I for one am tired of playing the "watch the gas prices" game. And I know lots of other people who are too.

Not really when the break even is about 5 years down the road..If you trade before then you lost.

Personally, I'd love to see what they could do with the diesel hybrid. Run that bad boy on man made fuels.... And the torque you can get out of them........That would be a trip!

Savings is proportional to gas price. . . and that calculation dates waaaay back to when hybrids were first introduced. Back then, I think gas was about $1.60. . . not it's increased substantially. I did a big long economic report on this for my thesis, about a year ago. I'd have to dig up the old excel files.

I did a pretty in dept analysis. . . you have to consider that you do not completely lose the money you put in: yes there is depreciation, but the added cost of a hybrid is partially recovered when you sell the car.

And for outright MPG, diesels are probably a better bang/buck. . . at least for what is available in Europe.

Exactly. And let us not forget that when you buy a hybrid, or any car for that matter, most people finance and set up monthly payments. So, for most people who already finance, the added monthly cost of owning a hybrid is all relative to owning any type of automobile. Its not that much more $$ when payments are usually stretched out to 4-5 years anyway.

But, when a person pays for fuel at the pumps, that $$ usually comes straight out of a persons pocket, or their weekly "spending money" if you will. I know thats how I operate & almost everyone else I know does too.

So, the point is I would rather tack on a few extra $$ to my monthly auto loan payment (which I gotta pay anyway) than to get raped at the pump a couple times a week.

Yes, and don't forget. . . it all becomes moot if gas prices keep rising. If gas prices were to double, you'd make your money back in an EXTREMELY short time.

I think a lot of people will buy the hybrid camry not only for the gas mileage, but also for the "gotta have it" factor. Think about it. If their neighbor says "I just got the new '07 Camry," they can say, "I just got one too. Except it's the hybrid." Now that person thinks they are the hero. They spent extra money to "save the environment" and got the same car with BETTER overall performance.

I think this is the case with a lot of hybrid buyers. They know they are paying extra for the technology, but it makes them feel better about themselves. The price of hybrid technology will come down eventually, but right now manufacturers are riding the "gotta have it" wave because they know people with buy them.
And what better car to exploit the "gotta have it" craze than the number one selling car in America???????

In my family we have a surburban and the toyota highlander hybrid. Just driving around town the highlander is a big cost saver on gas. Grnated that it isnt 60mpg or anything lke that, but it still has a lot of room for 7 passengers if need be

anyone seen the mileage of a prius? it's 60mpg, that's pretty awesome, but i heard they have some problems tho, like the suspension of turning corners... Hybrid civics have about 50ish mpg too i think.

the prius is a mileage hybrid , the highlander is a power hybrid, the rx400h is a power hybrid. the camry is a mixture of the two. almost the same power as the v6 camry and for about 2k more you get much better mileage.
imo they stink cuz they're ugly.

oh and whoever said the prius handles badly is POORLY , i repeat POORLY misinformed. with the batteries in the back and the hybrid drive up front the weight distribution is very very good. it handles very nicely. somewhat overboosted electrical steering but it's nice. when we set up a ride and drive i make it as an autocross course for my scion then run through it in the highlanders and prius's.



i promote for toyota/scion. and have actually been on a hybrid synergy drive tour lately.

just wait till u can get the 4.0v6 hybrid in the gs.

So can someone answer me this? I drive mainly highway miles and I read somewhere (I think off yahoo or msn) that City mileage is better than highway as the batteries can operate the car at low miles without the use of gas. Where as at cruising speed the engine is always on.

Is this right?

As for the arguement, I think hybrid technology is great. Just at current prices though... the additional cost versus the current price of gas doesn't make it that much more beneficial to drive a hybrid. It actually works out better to buy a better performing compact car that is cheaper. This is just speaking from the financial impact each month to your pocket book.

I do believe though that the technology is getting better and we'll see much better performing cars in the future. Just wonder how much it would be to replace some car batteries. Look how much cell phone batteries are. :doh: :P

it is the way of the future . toyota's plan is to make every car a hybrid or offer a hybrid option within 5-10 years.

and yes yopur understanding is pretty much correct.

the car is CONSTANTLY changing back and forth between just gas , just electric or the combination of both. at higher speeds you are using gas and the electric motor is used for a boost in speed.

the determining factors in whether you're on gas/both/electric are..... road speed , load , grade , throttle position , battery level.

i tell lot's of people looking for a hybrid who can't quite afford it to check out a corolla. 13,8xx dollars and it gets 41 highway.


but if u have a vehicle with an average combined mileage of over 45mpg you can use the diamond lanes and for the bay area that in it's self makes the prius , insight , or civic hybrids worth it. lol.


most prius owners are getting between 45-55 mpg in combined driving. so ......


toyota's warranty on hybrids in cali are:
powertrain 8yr/100,000
batteries 10yr/100,00
bumper to bumper 3yr/36,000


cost for parts and labor on batteries are estimated at 2500-3500

the batteries are expected to last the life of the car which toyota is referencing as a minimum of 15 years.

there are first generation prius's with over 200,000 miles on original batteries , original hybrid synergy drive , and original combustion motor.

28MPG For an SUV is pretty amazing. My dad's landcruiser (1997) gets about 12 city on a good day (they're considering trading said vehicle for a highlander hybrid).

Some companies do cheat though, like Honda, where the hybrid isn't for fuel efficiency but for additional HP. As mentioned before, it is very much a status symbol. Kind of like bottled water in the 90s (re: stupid symbols of status and/or class).

28MPG For an SUV is pretty amazing. My dad's landcruiser (1997) gets about 12 city on a good day (they're considering trading said vehicle for a highlander hybrid).

Some companies do cheat though, like Honda, where the hybrid isn't for fuel efficiency but for additional HP. As mentioned before, it is very much a status symbol. Kind of like bottled water in the 90s (re: stupid symbols of status and/or class).

I disagree with your labeling of Honda as "cheating". If power is the main objective, explain the Insight. 65 hp & 66 MPG. Please research before making totally inaccurate statements. I really dislike Honda bashing just because. :tap:

Oh yeah... thanks Darren for the info on the hybrid specs. Down the road I know I'll own one.

28MPG For an SUV is pretty amazing. My dad's landcruiser (1997) gets about 12 city on a good day (they're considering trading said vehicle for a highlander hybrid).

Some companies do cheat though, like Honda, where the hybrid isn't for fuel efficiency but for additional HP. As mentioned before, it is very much a status symbol. Kind of like bottled water in the 90s (re: stupid symbols of status and/or class).
only problem is imo it IS NOT an suv. it's a raised up elongated camry.

Yeah, the Highlander is a nice vehicle, but it is *NOT* a Land Cruiser. :P (I've had six Land Crushers - very honest and solid vehicles that come through when you need 'em. :) )

I think bigger more expensive vehicles are more popular for hybrids than small compacts. Many want or need larger vehicles and a few thousand more in price isnt a huge % increase like it is in something like a Corolla. Besides there are more SUVs on the road than compacts. It only makes sense to build was people want.

yet suvs are losing sales like CRAZY. why do you think people are still buying them? cuz gm and chevy sell em at 14,000 cash back. no one will buy them unless the dealers are losing money to sell them

yet suvs are losing sales like CRAZY. why do you think people are still buying them? cuz gm and chevy sell em at 14,000 cash back. no one will buy them unless the dealers are losing money to sell them
YES, you are correct sir! (my Ed Mcmahon impersonation).

But, really. That is very true. People are finally starting to wise up & not buy these big SUVs, unless they truely need them. Fact of the matter is that most people that bought SUVs before the gas prices went crazy did NOT actually need them. The market was saturated with these things for many years leading up to this point, now all of a sudden the game has changed & the auto makers are trying to play catchup. The numbers dont lie folks. Can anyone say "GM"???

So, yes. Dont buy an SUV unless you actually need one, get something more practical. And for the love of god, dont buy a Windows PC unless you really need it for work or something, get a Mac instead :-) You will be much happier. (Sorry, had to throw that in too)

Cheers!

i promote for toyota/scion. and have actually been on a hybrid synergy drive tour lately.

just wait till u can get the 4.0v6 hybrid in the gs.

Is this a new engine or something? Do you mean a 4.3L V8 hybrid, or a 4.0LV6 hybrid? I know that the new 3.5 is supposed to be the new standard engine (eventually), but I had no idea they were going to bump up to 4.0L! That would be the truck block for the taco's and 4runner's, no? That's downright silly! But it could potentially be very awesome.

Then again, that's not a very big displacement gap between the new V8 they are producing (4.6L) and a 4.0L V6?

I'm confused. . .

I thought the new block being put out were a 4.6L V8, 3.5L V6, and 3.3L V6 (the latter two of which are already on the market). . . at least for the non-trucks. . . or maybe this is for the GX and not the GS?

Or are you referring to the GS400h? I thought they were carrying over the RX400h's powerplant? But that's only a 3.3L V6 hybrid (and one of the very rare cases where the name designation does not match the displacement. . .

I have no idea, since you seem to be in the know, maybe you can help me out?

yes sid it is the 4.0 truck block which supposedly will make it's way into the gs for sheets and giggles.

toyota's going nuts with this newfangled technology. lol

OMFG! The 3.5 is already a beast at 300hp. I can only imagine what they can do with 4.0L of displacement and an advanced head. I wonder why they're only limiting the V8 to 4.6L. . . this makes me think the rumors of the V10 are true (for applications other than the LF-A)

which v8 is 4.6? u mean their 4.7 block?

For the new LS460. . . and yeah they also have the 4.7L truck block too.

i didnt know they ditched the 4.3

I dunno if they ditched it, but supposedly the new LS is going to feature a 4.6