how do people feel about the manual vs auto in the xa. I love MTs, but I live in a hilly city. Does the auto have any power?

I like manual, a lot. This is my first manual car, too. Automatic is okay, but for a 108hp car, manual is the way to go...

thanks dude. I'd much rather listen to you than my dad.

Manual feels twice as fast as the auto!! If you dont live in a city with alot of traffic- go with the manual-BTW I have had 0 probs with any gear/clutch probs...

thanks dude. I'd much rather listen to you than my dad.

Pee into the electrical outlet. :D

hills hmmm how experienced are you? I love manual, and I don't have problems with hills, but take your time to consider auto. . . you will have to live with this decision for a long time. Yes tha manual is considerably faster (why I bought it) but it is much easier to live with auto if you hate it then with manual if you hate it.
But this car has plenty of pick for me. . . but I'm used to my ol' V8. . . so if it were any slower I would not have bought the car. . .
choose wisely, I understand your trouble choosing.

I just got my black 5spd xA today. It was the first time I drove the 5spd around on open roads. 5spd is where its at. I've driven plenty of auto Scions/Echos and they are dogs. The 5spd on the Scion feels nice also. I had to test drive a Matrix XRS today at work and the 6 speed on that feels like crap and shifts horribly and the gearing is just not good at all. I am very impressed with the Scion 5 spd so far. I came from driving Hondas and Honda is known for awesome manual transmissions and the Scion one is pretty close to being just as good as a Honda one. I don't know about mechanically but feel and gearing is great.

I would of loved to get a manual xA, but I couldn't which I dont want to get into. The auto xA isn't too bad though, but the auto tranny is sluggish from a stop.

I would of loved to get a manual xA, but I couldn't which I dont want to get into. The auto xA isn't too bad though, but the auto tranny is sluggish from a stop.

The manual seems to bog off the line also. That or Toyotas require a lot of pedal power for the manuals.

The manual seems to bog off the line also. That or Toyotas require a lot of pedal power for the manuals.

you make me want to go to the track tomorrow with "off the line." hehe, the first time I went to the strip, I was launching at 4000-5000rpm...lots of wheel hop. I noticed the powerband is after about 3500rpm...

Personally, I always roll an auto. It's just easier in heavy traffic plus you get to pay attention to other things more than having to shift all the time. Of course, the manual will get you where you are going a lot faster, technically the auto and the manual have the same amount of power, but a manual puts the power to the ground more effeciently.

My previous vehicles have all been manuals, but I went with an automatic xA this time. I have an hour commute to work, and it's nice to be able to have a cup of coffee in hand and not have to worry about grabbing gears.

This is an entirely personal preference thing though. It's nice being able to put it in drive and not have to hunt gears, especially in traffic.

Steve

MT!

The car that I enjoyed the most was my old Honda CRX. Even more so than my Fiat X-1/9 was. It was a light, zippy car and the Scion reminds me of it a lot. So, from that as well as many years of driving in various cars in many circumstances, yes, if you don't drive in LA or WDC or other long-lasting and frustrating traffic, or often have to sit at a light on a SF hill, or have a bum knee, manual is the way to go. Most fun.

As a sidenote, in the quest for lighter, more fuel-efficient vehicles, MT clutch assemblies have become less-robust than AT. It used to be that manuals were more reliable and long-lasting than automatics, but that isn't so any more.

big MT!

why???????? i try both manual and auto by xA .......i step on the gas on auto moves like 10-20-30mph in about 10 seconds or even more then that with manual 5 seconds lil bit more but its definetly faster!

I'm willing to deal with traffic or hills or anything, give me MT anytime.

One thing I don't like is it just seems that cable shifter cars just don't have the precise shifting that my Civic had with it's linkage. I'm wondering if the TRD short shifter will make the shifter feel improved.

I finally drove an auto xA this evening. I drove the manual about three weeks ago and then had to wait for the dealer to get an auto so I could compare the two. My impression: MT all the way.

Yes, it was nice not having to shift the auto when I was test driving around town, but on the highway, once I was cruising in high gear, it made little difference. Today I drove up a steep hill in the auto and my first thought was “This thing is a dog.” No offense to AT owners. I drive an AT Subaru and like it just fine. But I miss manuals, which I drove for 20 years before getting the Subaru. The auto xA seemed to have lots of time delay between “foot on gas pedal” and “car going up hill.” Same thing on the highway on-ramp. In contrast, I found the MT quite zippy.

On a side note, I have read some complaints about Scion air conditioning. We have been having near-record heat up here in Alaska (in the 80s F, which feels like 120 to me), and I found the AC quite good. Better than the AC in my 1998 Subaru. And the xA I drove today was a 2004 that the dealer has for demos only (it's not for sale). Maybe I should post this comment in another thread.

Anyway, it’s going to be a manual xA for me later this summer. I think I’m going to get a silver one.

I agree with you, I'm glad I got the MT.

I do see a decrease in power with the AC on, but now that I can roll my windows down (had them tinted) I never use my AC.

The A/C in my 2005 Scion seems fine. It cools the car well. It just seems like it takes a little longer to finally get going.

I ordered a black MT this weekend, so I don't want to hear anyone else talking about how the AT is better. At least not on this thread.

Thanks for the help.

Although normally AC with recirc cools faster, it can be so hot inside the car that it cools faster to grab less-hot from outside for the first couple of minutes. Or like me, start driving with the windows open, and about 30 seconds later, close windows and use AC with recirc.

Yes, MT is more fun. But not while being stuck in traffic for long periods. Depends on what you use it for mostly. 90 to 120 minutes of a typical every day freeway tie-up doesn't endear me to any stick shift on any car. Maybe all you college kids just hopping down to 7-11 or to the library or girlfriends, great. Us over-30 breadwinners with long commutes have already been beaten down by our kids, our spouses, our jobs. With no dignity left, I must at least save my knees and what sanity I have left - AT for me, an old fart. :)

Sounds like you need to find a different route to work!

my personal pref too...

auto just because i want to buy a civic hatch
or older vw manual

didnt want my daily car to stick
anymore

emilio

Yes, MT is more fun. But not while being stuck in traffic for long periods. Depends on what you use it for mostly. 90 to 120 minutes of a typical every day freeway tie-up doesn't endear me to any stick shift on any car. Maybe all you college kids just hopping down to 7-11 or to the library or girlfriends, great. Us over-30 breadwinners with long commutes have already been beaten down by our kids, our spouses, our jobs. With no dignity left, I must at least save my knees and what sanity I have left - AT for me, an old fart. :)

:lol: 8) :lol:

AMEN, Brotha, Amen!

Test drove an auto, bought a 5 spd., the difference is NIGHT and DAY!

I have no regrets and no complaints about the 5 spd.

[quote="cme42ns"]Test drove an auto, bought a 5 spd., the difference is NIGHT and DAY!quote]

I hear ya... try driving an auto Echo in bumper-to-bumper rush hour traffic outside of Chicago, and then cruising on a manual xA in the country hills near Milwaukee :D I have absolutely no regrets about the manual tranny. I thought i would, but even being stuck in traffic today i'd totally go with a manual in our little cars!

Test drove an auto, bought a 5 spd., the difference is NIGHT and DAY!


That's odd, the difference between night and day here is about 12 hours, not 1 second... :wink:

the difference might as well be night and day. . . the flat out accleration difference is more than 1 second, but add to that the difference in responsiveness! I love auto. . . but if my xA were auto, I would not have bought it, as it would be dangerously slow (for me).

I actually have no complaints about traffic. . . my main complaint is the lack of cruise control; my ankle aches so bad after long drives. Something about the upright seating position puts more strain on the muscle that pulls your foot upwards. I end up laying my foot side ways to avoid the pain, but then my foot slips off the pedal.

I have spoken with two dealers about cruise control for the xA. Both offer it as a dealer add-on for about $300. I plan to get it for sure. You might ask some dealers near you.

I already bought the car without it :-( . . . but I think I can find an aftermarket installer to do it cheaper. . .

I actually have no complaints about traffic. . . my main complaint is the lack of cruise control; my ankle aches so bad after long drives. Something about the upright seating position puts more strain on the muscle that pulls your foot upwards. I end up laying my foot side ways to avoid the pain, but then my foot slips off the pedal.

Trucker's leg? This happens to me sometimes if I have my wallet with me. I know it sounds silly, but it may be your wallet. When I'm going on long drives I usually place my wallet in my front pocket, or in the glove box.

I also had a pair of shoes that drove me crazy when driving, but I could run in them all day. Strange.

Steve

Trucker's leg? This happens to me sometimes if I have my wallet with me. I know it sounds silly, but it may be your wallet. When I'm going on long drives I usually place my wallet in my front pocket, or in the glove box.

I also had a pair of shoes that drove me crazy when driving, but I could run in them all day. Strange.

Steve

Yeah, It depends on the pantaloons I wear. I have a pair that make it hell for me to have my wallet in my back pocket, so I put it next to the ebrake. I shift the best in my broken-in birkenstocks...

I don't fully understand why the Manual tranny is better than an Auto tranny. I think I understand the value of being able to go from 0 - 60 in less time and there's probably a better sense of control with regard to engine speed, but I went with the XA automatic because I didn't want to spend the next 5-10 years having to do all that extra stuff (shifting).

I was nearly scared off by the reviews that spoke about the XA's lack of acceleration. Fortunately, I found my XA automatic to perform flawlessly for my type of driving.

I previously drove a 1995 Honda Odessy mini van which was bigger and more capable. But the transition to the XA has been easy. I do not feel that I've lost anything or compromised the driving experience - except for the small car feel.

My driving consists of freeways, city and country (hilly) roads. I have no complaints with take off speed, getting on the freeway or keeping up with the other traffic going at 65 to 80 MPH. I've even done some careful passing.

I tend to drive just a little faster than the norm. So, it's others that are slow, not me.
The engine in the XA auto doesn't ever seem to be strained with the way I'm driving it. Even at 70-80 MPH, the tach shows about 3000 RPMs. I guess this is good because it's only half way to the red line.

The only thing I haven't done yet is go over the Cascade mountains. I expect that it will do fine.

Maybe after a year, I might come to realize that the XA automatic is under powered. But for now it has easily provided all of the power that I've needed to go from point A to point B.

I don't fully understand why the Manual tranny is better than an Auto tranny. I think I understand the value of being able to go from 0 - 60 in less time and there's probably a better sense of control with regard to engine speed, but I went with the XA automatic because I didn't want to spend the next 5-10 years having to do all that extra stuff (shifting).

I was nearly scared off by the reviews that spoke about the XA's lack of acceleration. Fortunately, I found my XA automatic to perform flawlessly for my type of driving.

I previously drove a 1995 Honda Odessy mini van which was bigger and more capable. But the transition to the XA has been easy. I do not feel that I've lost anything or compromised the driving experience - except for the small car feel.

My driving consists of freeways, city and country (hilly) roads. I have no complaints with take off speed, getting on the freeway or keeping up with the other traffic going at 65 to 80 MPH. I've even done some careful passing.

I tend to drive just a little faster than the norm. So, it's others that are slow, not me.
The engine in the XA auto doesn't ever seem to be strained with the way I'm driving it. Even at 70-80 MPH, the tach shows about 3000 RPMs. I guess this is good because it's only half way to the red line.

The only thing I haven't done yet is go over the Cascade mountains. I expect that it will do fine.

Maybe after a year, I might come to realize that the XA automatic is under powered. But for now it has easily provided all of the power that I've needed to go from point A to point B.

In a "best-case" scenario and under controlled conditions, the stick is a little faster. Everything you said about the auto is true though. In the real world, over the course of various driving conditions, the difference is not that big, definitely not as big as some would make it sound. Also, if you're revving to launch at a nice high rpm, kiss your MPG good bye, not to mention that clutch... It's not the way I drive, but you better be ready cuz i jackrabbit off the start

If you think the auto's a dog, come let me take you for a ride... I bet I can make you wish I would SLOW DOWN! :twisted:

Like I said before, I'm not saying the Auto is better for everyone. I just hate to see people get scared away from it by biased opinions...

I have been thinking about this topic a lot for the past couple of days. As I originally posted, I much prefer the manual. But I do think you auto fans make good points. I recently spent a good hour at www.howstuffworks.com studying the inner workings of both types of transmissions. If you have never done this, check it out. It’s most enlightening. The animated diagrams are great.

Indeed, there seems to be no quantifiable reason that one type should perform better than the other. So here is my theory: It’s mostly in our heads.

By “our,” I mean those of us whom Scion would call old folks (i.e., over 35). If you are my age or older, you probably grew up with the notion that small engine + AT = slug or that AT = worse mpg. It used to be pretty much true, like in the early 1980s, when I started driving. Things have changed in 20-plus years.

So maybe some of us, for whatever reason, are more conditioned to expect worse performance from an AT and therefore think we feel it when we drive one.

My other theory is that driving style has much to do with it, and this also boils down to personal expectations. To me, the difference in the xA trannies is not a matter of speed or off-the-line punch. I always drive the speed limit or under (those BMW kill stories make my blood boil; please slow down, guys), and I take off quite conservatively. But I also have a certain expectation of what the car will do when I do X or Y. If what I get is more like Q than Z, then my expectations have not been met and I feel less in control. Therefore I come away feeling partial to the MT because it “agrees” with me more or “sees things the way I do.” Now, if I weren’t so stubborn, I could take some driving lessons and learn how to fine-tune my technique and my expectations. Hmm.

All of this says more about me than about the transmissions. As I once told a female friend: there are revolver guys and semiauto guys; there are boxers guys and briefs guys; there are electric shaver guys and blade guys; there are plastic bag guys and paper bag guys. And, yes, there are AT guys and MT guys. You just have to experiment a little and figure out where you stand. After two years with an auto, I have realized that I am a manual guy. (For the record, my sweetheart lost a little respect for me two years ago when I sold my manual Tercel for an automatic Subaru. Keep that in mind, men.)

So maybe this is a better answer to the question that started this thread: Go to the dealer and try each trans for yourself. Then buy the one you get along with better. It’s more like finding a mate than picking a racehorse.

Thanks for sharing this link http://www.howstuffworks.com/ It's interesting to learn how transmissions work.

robert_gately posted "I don't fully understand why the Manual tranny is better than an Auto tranny"

It's not really better, just more responsive in an instantaneous way. It feels better, discounting those with bum knees or lots of traffic hours. It is more fun. Is a golf cart more fun than a go-kart to drive? No, but they each have their purposes. If familiar with either mopeds or motorcycles, this may help: The moped rider pulls back fully on the throttle, and the little engine is going to move forward at a rate that allows smooth shifts through the gears without a lot of whining. It just never seems fast enough or optimizing when acceleration is more important than top speed or gas economy. The motorcylist can slip or dump that clutch with whatever mix of throttle he wants, and that thing gives the feel, acceleration or power he wants at the moment he wants.

With the AT car, you go into a corner and stomp on the gas going out of the corner, and it will downshift or find the right gear before it accelerates. The MT driver downshifts to the correct gear going into the corner, using the engine as a brake and when accelerating out of the corner has instant acceleration as he gives it gas while coming off the clutch.

Yes, there are some mopeds that don't seem like electric scooters when they accelerate, and some golf carts can be very fun. I'm just trying to give some analogies. Might not be totally accurate, but just trying to convey what it feels like.

I have had many manuals, but in the city auto is easy..... Love the Xa auto

Ah, so many thoughts...

"It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow."

If this were the RX8 board, where the choice is between a 6MT and a 4AT, then I'd see the point. But I think we can all agree this car is not a race car, not a sports car, maybe you can call it a 'sporty' car. So talking about the 5sp as if it makes the car drive like an Enzo make me chuckle. ;)

Those of us trying to get to/from work as stress-free as possible will enjoy the auto. Hell, I enjoy the auto even when just going to the store to grab some food! It's a fun little car regardless.

Those of us with 6-speed-equiped sports cars in the garage will choose those for the weekend drives so making the commuter xA slightly quicker and less convenient is not necessary.

A friend's quote: "Why do you try to make you car into something it will never be?" As in: treat your economy car like an economy car and your race car like a race car. A Scion is step one in the Toyota ladder, with the xA at the bottom and the Toyota TF104 (Formula 1 car) at the top...if you could ever buy one of course. Rarely shall the twain meet.

Finally, let me introduce you to a little thing called 'resale value'. When we trade this thing in for a 2010 electric-hybrid or hydrogen-powered car, I have a feeling it may be worth slightly more than my neighbor's pimped-out xA.

But most importantly: if the wife says she wants an automatic, she gets an automatic. "But darling, you may 'enjoy' the 5sp more" doesn't seem to make a bit of difference. ;)