AT vs MT
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Although normally AC with recirc cools faster, it can be so hot inside the car that it cools faster to grab less-hot from outside for the first couple of minutes. Or like me, start driving with the windows open, and about 30 seconds later, close windows and use AC with recirc.
Yes, MT is more fun. But not while being stuck in traffic for long periods. Depends on what you use it for mostly. 90 to 120 minutes of a typical every day freeway tie-up doesn't endear me to any stick shift on any car. Maybe all you college kids just hopping down to 7-11 or to the library or girlfriends, great. Us over-30 breadwinners with long commutes have already been beaten down by our kids, our spouses, our jobs. With no dignity left, I must at least save my knees and what sanity I have left - AT for me, an old fart.
Yes, MT is more fun. But not while being stuck in traffic for long periods. Depends on what you use it for mostly. 90 to 120 minutes of a typical every day freeway tie-up doesn't endear me to any stick shift on any car. Maybe all you college kids just hopping down to 7-11 or to the library or girlfriends, great. Us over-30 breadwinners with long commutes have already been beaten down by our kids, our spouses, our jobs. With no dignity left, I must at least save my knees and what sanity I have left - AT for me, an old fart.
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From: In the Hot Tub
Originally Posted by claffeyb
Yes, MT is more fun. But not while being stuck in traffic for long periods. Depends on what you use it for mostly. 90 to 120 minutes of a typical every day freeway tie-up doesn't endear me to any stick shift on any car. Maybe all you college kids just hopping down to 7-11 or to the library or girlfriends, great. Us over-30 breadwinners with long commutes have already been beaten down by our kids, our spouses, our jobs. With no dignity left, I must at least save my knees and what sanity I have left - AT for me, an old fart.
AMEN, Brotha, Amen!
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[quote="cme42ns"]Test drove an auto, bought a 5 spd., the difference is NIGHT and DAY!quote]
I hear ya... try driving an auto Echo in bumper-to-bumper rush hour traffic outside of Chicago, and then cruising on a manual xA in the country hills near Milwaukee :D I have absolutely no regrets about the manual tranny. I thought i would, but even being stuck in traffic today i'd totally go with a manual in our little cars!
I hear ya... try driving an auto Echo in bumper-to-bumper rush hour traffic outside of Chicago, and then cruising on a manual xA in the country hills near Milwaukee :D I have absolutely no regrets about the manual tranny. I thought i would, but even being stuck in traffic today i'd totally go with a manual in our little cars!
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From: In the Hot Tub
Originally Posted by cme42ns
Test drove an auto, bought a 5 spd., the difference is NIGHT and DAY!
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the difference might as well be night and day. . . the flat out accleration difference is more than 1 second, but add to that the difference in responsiveness! I love auto. . . but if my xA were auto, I would not have bought it, as it would be dangerously slow (for me).
I actually have no complaints about traffic. . . my main complaint is the lack of cruise control; my ankle aches so bad after long drives. Something about the upright seating position puts more strain on the muscle that pulls your foot upwards. I end up laying my foot side ways to avoid the pain, but then my foot slips off the pedal.
I actually have no complaints about traffic. . . my main complaint is the lack of cruise control; my ankle aches so bad after long drives. Something about the upright seating position puts more strain on the muscle that pulls your foot upwards. I end up laying my foot side ways to avoid the pain, but then my foot slips off the pedal.
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From: Athens, TX
Originally Posted by djct_watt
I actually have no complaints about traffic. . . my main complaint is the lack of cruise control; my ankle aches so bad after long drives. Something about the upright seating position puts more strain on the muscle that pulls your foot upwards. I end up laying my foot side ways to avoid the pain, but then my foot slips off the pedal.
I also had a pair of shoes that drove me crazy when driving, but I could run in them all day. Strange.
Steve
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From: Orlando, Florida
Originally Posted by steve wolverton
Trucker's leg? This happens to me sometimes if I have my wallet with me. I know it sounds silly, but it may be your wallet. When I'm going on long drives I usually place my wallet in my front pocket, or in the glove box.
I also had a pair of shoes that drove me crazy when driving, but I could run in them all day. Strange.
Steve
I also had a pair of shoes that drove me crazy when driving, but I could run in them all day. Strange.
Steve
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I don't fully understand why the Manual tranny is better than an Auto tranny. I think I understand the value of being able to go from 0 - 60 in less time and there's probably a better sense of control with regard to engine speed, but I went with the XA automatic because I didn't want to spend the next 5-10 years having to do all that extra stuff (shifting).
I was nearly scared off by the reviews that spoke about the XA's lack of acceleration. Fortunately, I found my XA automatic to perform flawlessly for my type of driving.
I previously drove a 1995 Honda Odessy mini van which was bigger and more capable. But the transition to the XA has been easy. I do not feel that I've lost anything or compromised the driving experience - except for the small car feel.
My driving consists of freeways, city and country (hilly) roads. I have no complaints with take off speed, getting on the freeway or keeping up with the other traffic going at 65 to 80 MPH. I've even done some careful passing.
I tend to drive just a little faster than the norm. So, it's others that are slow, not me.
The engine in the XA auto doesn't ever seem to be strained with the way I'm driving it. Even at 70-80 MPH, the tach shows about 3000 RPMs. I guess this is good because it's only half way to the red line.
The only thing I haven't done yet is go over the Cascade mountains. I expect that it will do fine.
Maybe after a year, I might come to realize that the XA automatic is under powered. But for now it has easily provided all of the power that I've needed to go from point A to point B.
I was nearly scared off by the reviews that spoke about the XA's lack of acceleration. Fortunately, I found my XA automatic to perform flawlessly for my type of driving.
I previously drove a 1995 Honda Odessy mini van which was bigger and more capable. But the transition to the XA has been easy. I do not feel that I've lost anything or compromised the driving experience - except for the small car feel.
My driving consists of freeways, city and country (hilly) roads. I have no complaints with take off speed, getting on the freeway or keeping up with the other traffic going at 65 to 80 MPH. I've even done some careful passing.
I tend to drive just a little faster than the norm. So, it's others that are slow, not me.
The engine in the XA auto doesn't ever seem to be strained with the way I'm driving it. Even at 70-80 MPH, the tach shows about 3000 RPMs. I guess this is good because it's only half way to the red line.
The only thing I haven't done yet is go over the Cascade mountains. I expect that it will do fine.
Maybe after a year, I might come to realize that the XA automatic is under powered. But for now it has easily provided all of the power that I've needed to go from point A to point B.
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From: In the Hot Tub
Originally Posted by robert_gately
I don't fully understand why the Manual tranny is better than an Auto tranny. I think I understand the value of being able to go from 0 - 60 in less time and there's probably a better sense of control with regard to engine speed, but I went with the XA automatic because I didn't want to spend the next 5-10 years having to do all that extra stuff (shifting).
I was nearly scared off by the reviews that spoke about the XA's lack of acceleration. Fortunately, I found my XA automatic to perform flawlessly for my type of driving.
I previously drove a 1995 Honda Odessy mini van which was bigger and more capable. But the transition to the XA has been easy. I do not feel that I've lost anything or compromised the driving experience - except for the small car feel.
My driving consists of freeways, city and country (hilly) roads. I have no complaints with take off speed, getting on the freeway or keeping up with the other traffic going at 65 to 80 MPH. I've even done some careful passing.
I tend to drive just a little faster than the norm. So, it's others that are slow, not me.
The engine in the XA auto doesn't ever seem to be strained with the way I'm driving it. Even at 70-80 MPH, the tach shows about 3000 RPMs. I guess this is good because it's only half way to the red line.
The only thing I haven't done yet is go over the Cascade mountains. I expect that it will do fine.
Maybe after a year, I might come to realize that the XA automatic is under powered. But for now it has easily provided all of the power that I've needed to go from point A to point B.
I was nearly scared off by the reviews that spoke about the XA's lack of acceleration. Fortunately, I found my XA automatic to perform flawlessly for my type of driving.
I previously drove a 1995 Honda Odessy mini van which was bigger and more capable. But the transition to the XA has been easy. I do not feel that I've lost anything or compromised the driving experience - except for the small car feel.
My driving consists of freeways, city and country (hilly) roads. I have no complaints with take off speed, getting on the freeway or keeping up with the other traffic going at 65 to 80 MPH. I've even done some careful passing.
I tend to drive just a little faster than the norm. So, it's others that are slow, not me.
The engine in the XA auto doesn't ever seem to be strained with the way I'm driving it. Even at 70-80 MPH, the tach shows about 3000 RPMs. I guess this is good because it's only half way to the red line.
The only thing I haven't done yet is go over the Cascade mountains. I expect that it will do fine.
Maybe after a year, I might come to realize that the XA automatic is under powered. But for now it has easily provided all of the power that I've needed to go from point A to point B.
If you think the auto's a dog, come let me take you for a ride... I bet I can make you wish I would SLOW DOWN! :twisted:
Like I said before, I'm not saying the Auto is better for everyone. I just hate to see people get scared away from it by biased opinions...
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I have been thinking about this topic a lot for the past couple of days. As I originally posted, I much prefer the manual. But I do think you auto fans make good points. I recently spent a good hour at www.howstuffworks.com studying the inner workings of both types of transmissions. If you have never done this, check it out. It’s most enlightening. The animated diagrams are great.
Indeed, there seems to be no quantifiable reason that one type should perform better than the other. So here is my theory: It’s mostly in our heads.
By “our,” I mean those of us whom Scion would call old folks (i.e., over 35). If you are my age or older, you probably grew up with the notion that small engine + AT = slug or that AT = worse mpg. It used to be pretty much true, like in the early 1980s, when I started driving. Things have changed in 20-plus years.
So maybe some of us, for whatever reason, are more conditioned to expect worse performance from an AT and therefore think we feel it when we drive one.
My other theory is that driving style has much to do with it, and this also boils down to personal expectations. To me, the difference in the xA trannies is not a matter of speed or off-the-line punch. I always drive the speed limit or under (those BMW kill stories make my blood boil; please slow down, guys), and I take off quite conservatively. But I also have a certain expectation of what the car will do when I do X or Y. If what I get is more like Q than Z, then my expectations have not been met and I feel less in control. Therefore I come away feeling partial to the MT because it “agrees” with me more or “sees things the way I do.” Now, if I weren’t so stubborn, I could take some driving lessons and learn how to fine-tune my technique and my expectations. Hmm.
All of this says more about me than about the transmissions. As I once told a female friend: there are revolver guys and semiauto guys; there are boxers guys and briefs guys; there are electric shaver guys and blade guys; there are plastic bag guys and paper bag guys. And, yes, there are AT guys and MT guys. You just have to experiment a little and figure out where you stand. After two years with an auto, I have realized that I am a manual guy. (For the record, my sweetheart lost a little respect for me two years ago when I sold my manual Tercel for an automatic Subaru. Keep that in mind, men.)
So maybe this is a better answer to the question that started this thread: Go to the dealer and try each trans for yourself. Then buy the one you get along with better. It’s more like finding a mate than picking a racehorse.
Indeed, there seems to be no quantifiable reason that one type should perform better than the other. So here is my theory: It’s mostly in our heads.
By “our,” I mean those of us whom Scion would call old folks (i.e., over 35). If you are my age or older, you probably grew up with the notion that small engine + AT = slug or that AT = worse mpg. It used to be pretty much true, like in the early 1980s, when I started driving. Things have changed in 20-plus years.
So maybe some of us, for whatever reason, are more conditioned to expect worse performance from an AT and therefore think we feel it when we drive one.
My other theory is that driving style has much to do with it, and this also boils down to personal expectations. To me, the difference in the xA trannies is not a matter of speed or off-the-line punch. I always drive the speed limit or under (those BMW kill stories make my blood boil; please slow down, guys), and I take off quite conservatively. But I also have a certain expectation of what the car will do when I do X or Y. If what I get is more like Q than Z, then my expectations have not been met and I feel less in control. Therefore I come away feeling partial to the MT because it “agrees” with me more or “sees things the way I do.” Now, if I weren’t so stubborn, I could take some driving lessons and learn how to fine-tune my technique and my expectations. Hmm.
All of this says more about me than about the transmissions. As I once told a female friend: there are revolver guys and semiauto guys; there are boxers guys and briefs guys; there are electric shaver guys and blade guys; there are plastic bag guys and paper bag guys. And, yes, there are AT guys and MT guys. You just have to experiment a little and figure out where you stand. After two years with an auto, I have realized that I am a manual guy. (For the record, my sweetheart lost a little respect for me two years ago when I sold my manual Tercel for an automatic Subaru. Keep that in mind, men.)
So maybe this is a better answer to the question that started this thread: Go to the dealer and try each trans for yourself. Then buy the one you get along with better. It’s more like finding a mate than picking a racehorse.
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Thanks for sharing this link http://www.howstuffworks.com/ It's interesting to learn how transmissions work.
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robert_gately posted "I don't fully understand why the Manual tranny is better than an Auto tranny"
It's not really better, just more responsive in an instantaneous way. It feels better, discounting those with bum knees or lots of traffic hours. It is more fun. Is a golf cart more fun than a go-kart to drive? No, but they each have their purposes. If familiar with either mopeds or motorcycles, this may help: The moped rider pulls back fully on the throttle, and the little engine is going to move forward at a rate that allows smooth shifts through the gears without a lot of whining. It just never seems fast enough or optimizing when acceleration is more important than top speed or gas economy. The motorcylist can slip or dump that clutch with whatever mix of throttle he wants, and that thing gives the feel, acceleration or power he wants at the moment he wants.
With the AT car, you go into a corner and stomp on the gas going out of the corner, and it will downshift or find the right gear before it accelerates. The MT driver downshifts to the correct gear going into the corner, using the engine as a brake and when accelerating out of the corner has instant acceleration as he gives it gas while coming off the clutch.
Yes, there are some mopeds that don't seem like electric scooters when they accelerate, and some golf carts can be very fun. I'm just trying to give some analogies. Might not be totally accurate, but just trying to convey what it feels like.
It's not really better, just more responsive in an instantaneous way. It feels better, discounting those with bum knees or lots of traffic hours. It is more fun. Is a golf cart more fun than a go-kart to drive? No, but they each have their purposes. If familiar with either mopeds or motorcycles, this may help: The moped rider pulls back fully on the throttle, and the little engine is going to move forward at a rate that allows smooth shifts through the gears without a lot of whining. It just never seems fast enough or optimizing when acceleration is more important than top speed or gas economy. The motorcylist can slip or dump that clutch with whatever mix of throttle he wants, and that thing gives the feel, acceleration or power he wants at the moment he wants.
With the AT car, you go into a corner and stomp on the gas going out of the corner, and it will downshift or find the right gear before it accelerates. The MT driver downshifts to the correct gear going into the corner, using the engine as a brake and when accelerating out of the corner has instant acceleration as he gives it gas while coming off the clutch.
Yes, there are some mopeds that don't seem like electric scooters when they accelerate, and some golf carts can be very fun. I'm just trying to give some analogies. Might not be totally accurate, but just trying to convey what it feels like.
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From: Long Beach, CA
Love that auto!
Ah, so many thoughts...
"It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow."
If this were the RX8 board, where the choice is between a 6MT and a 4AT, then I'd see the point. But I think we can all agree this car is not a race car, not a sports car, maybe you can call it a 'sporty' car. So talking about the 5sp as if it makes the car drive like an Enzo make me chuckle. ;)
Those of us trying to get to/from work as stress-free as possible will enjoy the auto. Hell, I enjoy the auto even when just going to the store to grab some food! It's a fun little car regardless.
Those of us with 6-speed-equiped sports cars in the garage will choose those for the weekend drives so making the commuter xA slightly quicker and less convenient is not necessary.
A friend's quote: "Why do you try to make you car into something it will never be?" As in: treat your economy car like an economy car and your race car like a race car. A Scion is step one in the Toyota ladder, with the xA at the bottom and the Toyota TF104 (Formula 1 car) at the top...if you could ever buy one of course. Rarely shall the twain meet.
Finally, let me introduce you to a little thing called 'resale value'. When we trade this thing in for a 2010 electric-hybrid or hydrogen-powered car, I have a feeling it may be worth slightly more than my neighbor's pimped-out xA.
But most importantly: if the wife says she wants an automatic, she gets an automatic. "But darling, you may 'enjoy' the 5sp more" doesn't seem to make a bit of difference. ;)
"It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow."
If this were the RX8 board, where the choice is between a 6MT and a 4AT, then I'd see the point. But I think we can all agree this car is not a race car, not a sports car, maybe you can call it a 'sporty' car. So talking about the 5sp as if it makes the car drive like an Enzo make me chuckle. ;)
Those of us trying to get to/from work as stress-free as possible will enjoy the auto. Hell, I enjoy the auto even when just going to the store to grab some food! It's a fun little car regardless.
Those of us with 6-speed-equiped sports cars in the garage will choose those for the weekend drives so making the commuter xA slightly quicker and less convenient is not necessary.
A friend's quote: "Why do you try to make you car into something it will never be?" As in: treat your economy car like an economy car and your race car like a race car. A Scion is step one in the Toyota ladder, with the xA at the bottom and the Toyota TF104 (Formula 1 car) at the top...if you could ever buy one of course. Rarely shall the twain meet.
Finally, let me introduce you to a little thing called 'resale value'. When we trade this thing in for a 2010 electric-hybrid or hydrogen-powered car, I have a feeling it may be worth slightly more than my neighbor's pimped-out xA.
But most importantly: if the wife says she wants an automatic, she gets an automatic. "But darling, you may 'enjoy' the 5sp more" doesn't seem to make a bit of difference. ;)