Toyota? Are you listening? I hope so. I feel that I am not alone in believing that there are too many differences between the classic and the next-gen cars that the designation xB should be retired. As a comparison, the xD is similar enough to the xA, i suppose, but it has received a new designation... why?

When Toyta redesigned the bB they didn't change the name. Thats kinda the way I feel. I want one, will gladly trade in my 05 camo for one.

When Toyta redesigned the bB they didn't change the name. Thats kinda the way I feel. I want one, will gladly trade in my 05 camo for one.


that's true, but the bB was not as revolutionary a vehicle in Japan. There have been quite a few 'box' style cars there for some time. The xB is a very unique car to the states, and it should stay that way. Would you still want to buy one if it were called something else? I happen to believe you would.

To me, there's something very unique about the current xB. Yes, I agree that it's a source of ridicule for some. That's ok, because I recognize that it is different.

The zen buddhists have a saying 'ichigo ichie', literally, one chance, one encounter. It's kind of an eastern way of saying 'bet you couldn't do that again if you tried'. It looks to me as though scion wants to try and force the issue, which is unfortunate. The vehicle is so unique and revolutionary to the usdm market, that I wish scion would consider changing the designation for the new xB.

:clap:

Sound off, folks! Let's hear what you think!

well the original beetle was a revolutionary design...and they didn't change the name when the newer one came out...the Five Hundred is a radical change from the Taurus but guess what it's been renamed a Taurus

it's a name...you own a xB 1st gen be proud of what you have and welcome the 2nd gen

yes it is really an xB and I'll be proud to drive around in one and have it sport the xB logo...

-wC

I think that the generation transition stays true enough to the xB to justify keeping the name. What I dont understand is why we have a new xB, but a replacement for the xA rather than a new xA and xB. The xD is just as similar to the xA as the gen2 xB is to the gen1. So I guess my point is that if they wanted to change the names the should of changed both instead of keeping the xB and introducing xD.

Basically how I feel about it is that if your going to introduce a new name why not introduce two. If the xA can be tansfered into xD, than the second xB should recieve a new name as well.

Does the xA have such a negative conotation that Scion felt it better to totally remove the name from the line?

Based on the pictures on scions home page, the new xB looks pretty cool. I am fine with Toyota calling it an xB. However, it is nowhere near as cool as my xB, which I plan on driving forever.... and leaving stock.

I honestly don't know where to start or what to read! I am wishing that scionlife was as full of posters when the first gen xb came out! I have to say everyone said the same thing then as they are doing now..


the best thing I have recently herd was....


With Scion coming out with an improved model, questions were raised like this.. HOW DO YOU IMPROVE ON A BOX?

Its hard to please everyone and since everyone in ScionLife are already scion owners or entusiasts, with the old scion model lines..

Heck, I personally like it! And I plan on trading in my 1 gen box and getting a 2 gen box, with more rounded curves!

It has more of what "WE" asked scion to put on it!

SO WE ARE THE ONES 2 BLAME FOR THE NEXT GENERATION SCION,
NOT TOYOTA, THEY JUST GAVE US WHAT WE WANTED!

Again just my 2 cents, but we did ask for it!

They should've named it xcrossover suv...
Seriously though, this is Toyota's way of capitalizing on the xB name. It doesn't matter what it looks like to them, but people want the name. I would've preferred the xB name to die with the design, but I'm okay knowing that there's never going to be another car like ours again.

The original xB was easy and obvious to nickname "The Box."

I seriously doubt that people will think the same about the new one, so long as they are sober.

The original xB is a "City Car" with a design based on getting the absolute maximum usable interior space on a tiny footprint.

The new one is essentially a small van without the sliding doors.

http://tijil.org/xB2_sil_side_L.gif

The "replacement" for the xB Classic is a much larger, less space-efficient, more powerful vehicle. It is in a different class, no longer a tiny City Car.

See also: http://tijil.org/blog/ http://tijil.org/tom_icon.gif

Tom

tom, i talked with them about your "city car" concerns, and that is what the xD is filling that convern...

I wish I could find the thread in here or somewhere that stated all the things people wanted to change on or about there scions.....

No offense meant here in any way......but it's the tC Wagon....

I'm an old skool VW guy....I remember the original Rabbit.....that's what the xB is like.....but VW changed it for the US.....and it BOMBED big time. They even built a plant here in PA that lasted only a few years. Anyone remember the '85 Golf.....??? Anyone??? I didn't think so.....

I'm with you Tony (cherrybox), I think the xB should be retired,
to tell you truth the xB2 should be the one being called the xD
and new xD should be the next generation xA, cause the are
indeed very similar.

I say we do some kind of strike thing, to get Toyota to retire
the xB, and name the xB2 something different. 8)

It's still "not for everbody" that stayin true
Lots of room in the back (more than most luxury vehicles)
Thomas's pic shows loss of its ID profile, well yeah. Look at the corolla and how its lost it's profile like 12 times. It's a corolla because of its nitch it fills in the Toyota brand.

I have bought Toyota since 1987. This is how they evolve each car.


Sure looks like a new b 2 me.

I have bought Toyota since 1987. This is how they evolve each car.



I'm with ya. The nuances of vehicle naming conventions are not lost on me.

From the word go, Scion has seemed as though they would not care to fit into the 'mold' that other brands all seem to come from. It's always been about being different. Underground marketing and new tactics have been the norm.

Why now would they choose to be like the 'joneses'? Why change the designation of the xA, and not the xB?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not interested in hearing the arguments over the styling - there are several threads on that. Let me be very clear that I am saying simply that whatever they call it, it is what it is.

Has anyone noticed that none of the official pictures of the new 'xB' have any sort of xB badge?

tom, i talked with them about your "city car" concerns, and that is what the xD is filling that convern...

Well, that's nice, but the "space efficiency" of the xD is NOT the same as the space efficiency of the xB Classic: The rear hatch and load space are much more limiting than on the xB Classic. The xD is a very nice compact hatchback, but there is NOT any way it is as easy to load, nor can it handle the bulky items that the xB swallows without complaint.

Also, the driver/passenger access is much poorer on the xD. Yet another crouch-to-enter small car.

(And can anyone imagine trying to do a wheelchair conversion similar to the Braun Rampvan conversion of the xB on the xD? That is one very clear, very solid example of the difference in usable interior space on a similar footprint.)

I repeat, "There is nothing on the current US market from any manufacturer with the same space efficiency as the now discontinued Scion xB. Nothing. There are no equivalent City Cars available here."

Thanks for asking them, though, I guess they don't understand what a magnificent design the xB Classic was for usable space in a tiny vehicle, and in turn do NOT understand that they have abandoned that niche and those customers. :(

Tom http://tijil.org/tom_icon.gif

tom, i talked with them about your "city car" concerns, and that is what the xD is filling that convern...

Well, that's nice, but the "space efficiency" of the xD is NOT the same as the space efficiency of the xB Classic: The rear hatch and load space are much more limiting than on the xB Classic. The xD is a very nice compact hatchback, but there is NOT any way it is as easy to load, nor can it handle the bulky items that the xB swallows without complaint.

Also, the driver/passenger access is much poorer on the xD. Yet another crouch-to-enter small car.

(And can anyone imagine trying to do a wheelchair conversion similar to the Braun Rampvan conversion of the xB on the xD? That is one very clear, very solid example of the difference in usable interior space on a similar footprint.)

I repeat, "There is nothing on the current US market from any manufacturer with the same space efficiency as the now discontinued Scion xB. Nothing. There are no equivalent City Cars available here."

Thanks for asking them, though, I guess they don't understand what a magnificent design the xB Classic was for usable space in a tiny vehicle, and in turn do NOT understand that they have abandoned that niche and those customers. :(

Tom http://tijil.org/tom_icon.gif
Tom think of it this way, IMO...for anyone to espouse that the "car they want next" is even "heard" by a manufacturer sets you apart from 99.0% of the rest of the planet....you folk have an impact on what comes next. As much as you'd like to deny it....scionlife can dictate model changes....they may just be model changes you functionally fixated folk have a tough time swallowing.

No, I fully understand that the "new xB" is a direct result of the designers paying very close attention to all the folks who were pleading with Scion to change specific things about the xB Classic. It is absolutely amazing how closely they followed their vociferous customer's "demands."

What may have fallen through the cracks, though, or at least fell below the threshold of being actively noticed, is the even larger group who DIDN'T demand those changes - those who were essentially saying by their silence that the now discontinued Scion vehicles were very appreciated and met their needs and desires.

If *I* were to have been asked what changes I would like to see in the xB Classic, mine would have been very simple and direct: Cruise control, side airbags, and slightly more substantial front and rear pieces that could withstand having another car gently bumping or brushing against them in parallel parking - without damage.

I'm one of the silent ones who did NOT find fault with the original, because 99 and 44/100ths percent of it fully met my needs and desires.

I wouldn't be one to say don't innovate - innovation is one of Scion's strong points, innovation and taking chances.

I fully believe that the new xB2 station wagon will be a strong seller, and will have an avid following: It is a well designed, well put together vehicle specifically designed to answer to the customer's desires. Same for the new xD.

Neither one, however, is a continuation of the City Car theme first introduced to this country with the Scion xB Classic. Tiny car, tiny engine, massive interior space, sophisticated simplicity (minimalism), and undeniably form-follows-function VERY MUCH OVER form-follows-fashion.

Yes, the xD, for example, may have been intended to be a follow-on design for the City Car theme, but each and every extra curve and flowing line added subtracts from the utility and usability of the vehicle in the City Car functions.

Rounded sides, top, rear, and hatch opening? Reduction in usable interior space, even with the same size exterior. A one foot cube holds MUCH more than a one foot sphere even though both take the same size storage niche (parking space).

Exterior curves placed solely for styling tend to make doors and other panels thicker, thereby also increasing the difference between usable interior space and required exterior space.

The real beauty of the xB Classic was that the usable interior space was essentially the required exterior space minus only mechanical and safety required space. No corners trimmed off for looks and lost to utility.

The original xB was a brutally unapologetic, efficient vehicle, and sophisticated well beyond what most can appreciate. There are a lot of very subtle things going on inside those flat panels that make it a pleasing and reliable little box on wheels.

The xB2 is the redesign of that concept up into a totally different class of vehicle, to meet the expressed desires of the loudest 10 percent of those who either bought the box and found it wanting, or who refused to buy the box and said why. I doubt the silent 90 percent wanted their beloved boxes to morph into tC station wagons.

I wish the xB2 buyers all the best, and feel confident that they will be getting a very fine vehicle priced way below what it could be. I'm sure that Scion will listen to them also, as their vehicle matures and changes. The xB3 will reflect the changes the dissatisfied xB2 owners demand. :)

Scion is doing an amazing job of listening and changing, in this instance it may be their customers who failed. :( Only those with complaints seem to have said anything at all. Either from a lack of belief that anything we said would count, or simple apathy, the rest of us were silent. For whatever reason the (I believe) majority who appreciated their beloved boxes for what they were didn't make ourselves known.

It could be HOW the questions were asked: The questions were always "What should we change?" or "What would you change?" The questions never seemed to be "What under NO circumstances should be changed?" :(

Always the focus was "What did we get wrong?" never "What did we get right?"

What happened was that 95% of those things ostensibly "wrong" were corrected in the new design, which is absolutely fantastic! :D Thing is, it also meant some of the really great things they got right were lost. :(

The xB2 and xD look to be great cars, and should propel Scion forward. Sadly, those of us who MOST liked and appreciated the earlier xB design for what it was no longer have a home. There is no follow-on vehicle that does for us what the box does. That makes me sad. :(

Tom http://tijil.org/tom_icon.gif

Tomas, you stated it all. I think after this next 3 year run hopefully people will realize what they lost in the xB classic(and yes everyone should start calling it that.) I think like minded folks like us know what was so great about the idea of the car, the aesthetics aside. I absolutely love the xB classic and I have since I first saw it. Unforntunately for me there was never an oppurtune time for me to get one. I missed out on a car based on the idea of a 'City Car' in every since of the word. It was the first time I saw the American car companies "wake up" to what was practical in the rest of the world. I thought this car would start a revolution not only in design but in the idea of what cars in America could be. I am so utterly let down by Scion's decision to drop the City Car from their line-up.

Thanks, Lonestar. I quoted you in my blog. Hope that's OK. :)

Tom

I think most of the complaints about the gen 1 xB could have been solved with an option for a bigger engine. I do not need a larger xB. 99% of the people I see on the road are alone in their vehicle. I have plenty of room for four people if I desire. I get over 30 MPG. I am not saying that they should have made the same box forever, but they could have still made a small very utilitarian and unique car. Bigger is not always better.

more votes!

If they changed the name of the xA, they should change the xB. That was what everyone on here always believed that "Scion will change the names with their redesigns".

Personally, I like the new "whatever they wanna call it". I do not like it better than my original 05'.

I would never trade my 05' for it, but would maybe consider purchasing a new one to go with my classic and have both.

But it really should be re-named ......TxB or T2B

how bout xtC? :P

well the original beetle was a revolutionary design...and they didn't change the name when the newer one came out...the Five Hundred is a radical change from the Taurus but guess what it's been renamed a Taurus

it's a name...you own a xB 1st gen be proud of what you have and welcome the 2nd gen

yes it is really an xB and I'll be proud to drive around in one and have it sport the xB logo...

-wC

But we are talking about a scion, they fuel off of innovation. what is more innovative? Doing it the way it was done, or completely dropping the xB and xA and and bringing in a new line with new names and different designs. I think thats why people have such an issue with the name xB on the new car. We took so much pride in our cars from the outside to the inside. Regardless of the things it has been called we embraced the innovation. When you design a new car and put the same name on it, we as scion xB drivers say, " That is not the car that I have been driving. That is not the car that I have to defend. That is not the car that I have reinvented. It says Scion on the front but xB on the back..."

Where is the innovation???

well the original beetle was a revolutionary design...and they didn't change the name when the newer one came out...the Five Hundred is a radical change from the Taurus but guess what it's been renamed a Taurus

it's a name...you own a xB 1st gen be proud of what you have and welcome the 2nd gen

yes it is really an xB and I'll be proud to drive around in one and have it sport the xB logo...

-wC

But we are talking about a scion, they fuel off of innovation. what is more innovative? Doing it the way it was done, or completely dropping the xB and xA and and bringing in a new line with new names and different designs. I think thats why people have such an issue with the name xB on the new car. We took so much pride in our cars from the outside to the inside. Regardless of the things it has been called we embraced the innovation. When you design a new car and put the same name on it, we as scion xB drivers say, " That is not the car that I have been driving. That is not the car that I have to defend. That is not the car that I have reinvented. It says Scion on the front but xB on the back..."

Where is the innovation???

That's the point I was trying to make, but you did a much better job with your words.
:clap:

one of the original names for the tC was xTC, but they scratched it.

i think toyota specifically said that they are keeping the xB tag, because that is the car everyone associates with scion.

with that said, i agree with wanting a bB more and that the new xB isn't a new xB. but, we'll see when it gets here, and i sit in it and whatnot. maybe it won't be as bad as i think.

i agree they shouldnt use the xb name on the new xb2, it kills the resale value of the current xb's cause there is a new model out. and i do remember scion stating that they will not remake any of there current vechiles once they bring new models out they would retire the old models! thats one of the reasons i bought my xb, cause i figured once it was retired i would have a collectors car.

No, I fully understand that the "new xB" is a direct result of the designers paying very close attention to all the folks who were pleading with Scion to change specific things about the xB Classic. It is absolutely amazing how closely they followed their vociferous customer's "demands." (and the rest of the post).
Tom http://tijil.org/tom_icon.gif
Well stated....but even Volvo has finally left behind their beloved "boxy" appearances. I love the look and functionality of the xB Classic but vehicles evolve. Take Camrys for example; early incarnations look nothing like later models, yet Toyota tries to maintain what makes a Camry a Camry in each incarnation, even though they often do not remotely appear like their predecessor.

An attachment to the form and function of the xB such that there is no room for an entirely different "appearing" vehicle carrying on the name is an "attachment", imo. Changing the moniker does not make it smell any sweeter. "A rose by any other name...."

I think of it this way. They are retiring the xB and a new Phoenix rises from the ashes.
;)

how come everyone is useing the defense that toyota remakes the camry, and still uses the camry name. the xb is different, and i dont remember toyota ever stating that they would retire the camry name once they make a new model! they did say that about the scion models :lalala:

I don't remember Toyota ever stating that they would retire the Camry name once they make a new model! they did say that about the scion models :lalala:
Okay, on a personal level....why is it important to you that this new vehicle not be identified as an "xB"? I sense an allegiance to the original xB. Is there a vehicle that you would have given a nod to carrying on the xB name plate that was differently esthetically.? If so, what difference would you have endorsed? Just for my own edification, because I have seen vehicle namesakes morph on a regular basis....the whole planned obsolescence thing. ;)

In reality we are being no different than other folks who have formed strong attachments to rather unique vehicles in the past. It is actually a common reaction.

People have mentioned all the "other" vehicles that have morphed into different classes while retaining the same name. One that stands out in my mind is the Ford Thunderbird, which started out as a tiny two seater roadster in direct competition with the early Corvette, but grew into a massive chrome barge actually built on a Lincoln chassis over the years. Trust me, the folks who lost that little sports car when it became a fat road hog with the same name were loudly complaining.

Of course Ford had made no promise to the Thunderbird people that the name would be retired when the product changed to something else - Scion definitely implied that in their earlier live presentations when they discussed their "3 years per model" goals.

The Camry name is attached to a particular 'niche' in the Toyota lineup. No matter what shape the current holder of that position/name wears, it is still a vehicle in exactly the same position in the Toyota lineup.

The old xB and the new xB are two different classes of car. Both are good, viable, well defined, clearly stated, representatives of their class. The new xB will likely be even more popular than the old xB because it fits into the 'average' American lifestyle better, and has the kind of lines the US market is more used to seeing. It is the small, suburban "2.3 kids and a dog" car.

The "old xB" folks who are not liking the new xB are for the most part not saying it is a bad car, but saying that no matter how good it is, it lost some of the reasons for them buying an xB.

Myself, I LIKE the nextgen xB, I just don't intend to buy one because it does not meet my personal needs or desires. I've strongly recommended the nextgen xB to two people now (not yet Scion owners) who will be looking for new vehicles shortly, because it would fit their needs very, very well.

My objection is not to the new vehicle, but (1) to the dropping of an entire class of vehicle with no alternative choices, and (2) the retaining of the name, counter to earlier implied promises.

Why is it important to me on a personal level that they are calling the tC station wagon an "xB?" Because when someone asks what Scion I own, I will say "an xA and an xB." When they then start in with "Wow! How do you like the xB? Is it pretty quick with the 2.4? Isn't that [whatever} on it great!?!!" and other comments that only apply to the nextgen xB, I'll have to patiently explain that no, I don't have one of the new big ones, but one of the original City Cars - the box.

Considering that many folks only have the attention span and memory of an immature gnat, I expect to get many blank looks.

I guess I really just don't want to be mistaken for being the owner of the new Scion mothership, no matter how fine it may be. I own a box. :)

Tom

....no matter how fine it may be. I own a box. :)Tom
As always, well stated. This quote may be the way to sum it up in future inquiries.

btw, Scion has another offering in the chute ;)

Well on a similar note: the Toyota Cressida was the prototype/inspiration for the Lexus sedans, and the Lexus' essentially became "luxury" Cressidas. So still Toyotas, just a new brand name. And our "Scions" here are just Toyotas overseas...
The xB overall is Still an xB; I think a name change couldn't hurt.

Some SL'rs were calling the new ones "B2s"
I like that a Lot :clap:
Weren't some old war aiplanes called B2s?

Tomas if they are differfent classes of vehicles what will that do to insurance rates? My company has a hard enough time categorizing my xB. I believe they call it a "micro van". Now with a completely different vehicle with the same name but a bigger engine and body, their heads will explode. Will i be lumped in to the SUV category?

Like Tomas, I am among the one 99% happy with my current xB. The new xB looks nice, but is NOT the "city commuter", quirky "Box" I flipped over at first glance last year. I have already been trying to decide what to look for in my next vehicle since my category is gone now. Maybe Scion will surprise us with their xB3...

The new xB has a two foot smaller turning circle (curb to curb) 36.1' in the Gen 1, 34.1' in the gen 2.

I think it's still a UUV.

anyone else?

How many of the following common comments about the original xB will apply to the future xB? Not as many as I would have liked.

"Hey! You forgot to take your car outta the box!"

micro-van
urban utility vehicle
mini-wagon
trucklet
sport cube
sport box
xBox
the box
city cube
utility box
toaster
sport box
ice cube
fox box
milk truck
post office truck
lunch truck
roach coach
rocket toaster
cement block
clown car
rat-powered boxcar
mini SUV
refrigerator
micro Hummer
lunchbox
dumpster
happy meal toy
washing machine
Maytag
Frigidaire
KitchenAid
short bus
cellular phone booth
shoe box
mail truck
box racer
Lego car
popemobile
boombox on wheels
ammo box
moon rover
Mini shipping crate
Spongebob Squarepants' car

http://tijil.org/tom_icon.gif

well i think scion should go back to their roots and call the 1st gen the bB and the nex one the xB due to the size xB= extended box.

well i think scion should go back to their roots and call the 1st gen the bB and the nex one the xB due to the size xB= extended box.

hehe, how would they do that? have a NAME recall?

I,m waiting for the the 09's now!

I,m waiting for the the 09's now!

You do know that the '09 xB is gonna be the same as the '08 xB which is due out the end of April this year, correct?

Ya, I know but its nice to hope... Lol To me when I saw the pics I wasn't impressed with the styling. Might look better in person. Not to keen on the interior..

Ya, I know but its nice to hope... Lol To me when I saw the pics I wasn't impressed with the styling. Might look better in person. Not to keen on the interior..

Its not surprising to me that most ( not all, cause there will always be haters ) change their opinons when they see the car up close and personal. Especially the 5 Axis, as it sits real low, setting off that wide stance.

I have seen 'em in person, Chris, and I am impressed and believe Scion has done an excellent job designing the xB2 for the people who didn't like the xB - those constantly griping about lack of load space or power, or whatever.

The xB2 is a definite upgrade to a totally new class of vehicle, and I'm sure it will sell well not only because it meets the needs of the buyers, but because it is Toyota quality at a low price.

In person the xB2 is more aggressive looking, and the design does flow well. There are a LOT of possibilities left for customizing the new xB2, and the looks will be a lot different that the first gen xB because the newgen xB is not a box and is not as tiny.

I know it is too late to make any difference this time around, but some of us still don't like that Scion continued the same model name past the three years they said, and onto a different class of car, just for "name recognition" to enhance sales.

The newgen xB is a good design, and would have done just fine on it's own without recycling the name from the box.

Tom

When did you turn 60 Tom? You sure as hell didnt look it in Miami.

About the time I was in Miami, Chris. :P (I was born December 1946...)

http://tijil.org/bio.html

Tom

About the time I was in Miami, Chris. :P (I was born December 1946...)

Tom

Congrats on not looking your age ... i have family who isnt 60 yet and looks like hell. :bow: