cherryBox

Toyota? Are you listening? I hope so. I feel that I am not alone in believing that there are too many differences between the classic and the next-gen cars that the designation xB should be retired. As a comparison, the xD is similar enough to the xA, i suppose, but it has received a new designation... why?

oni424

When Toyta redesigned the bB they didn't change the name. Thats kinda the way I feel. I want one, will gladly trade in my 05 camo for one.

cherryBox

that's true, but the bB was not as revolutionary a vehicle in Japan. There have been quite a few 'box' style cars there for some time. The xB is a very unique car to the states, and it should stay that way. Would you still want to buy one if it were called something else? I happen to believe you would.

To me, there's something very unique about the current xB. Yes, I agree that it's a source of ridicule for some. That's ok, because I recognize that it is different.

The zen buddhists have a saying 'ichigo ichie', literally, one chance, one encounter. It's kind of an eastern way of saying 'bet you couldn't do that again if you tried'. It looks to me as though scion wants to try and force the issue, which is unfortunate. The vehicle is so unique and revolutionary to the usdm market, that I wish scion would consider changing the designation for the new xB.

whatmovesu

cherryBox

Sound off, folks! Let's hear what you think!

WheelSee

well the original beetle was a revolutionary design...and they didn't change the name when the newer one came out...the Five Hundred is a radical change from the Taurus but guess what it's been renamed a Taurus

it's a name...you own a xB 1st gen be proud of what you have and welcome the 2nd gen

yes it is really an xB and I'll be proud to drive around in one and have it sport the xB logo...

-wC

hotweelz4me

I think that the generation transition stays true enough to the xB to justify keeping the name. What I dont understand is why we have a new xB, but a replacement for the xA rather than a new xA and xB. The xD is just as similar to the xA as the gen2 xB is to the gen1. So I guess my point is that if they wanted to change the names the should of changed both instead of keeping the xB and introducing xD.

Basically how I feel about it is that if your going to introduce a new name why not introduce two. If the xA can be tansfered into xD, than the second xB should recieve a new name as well.

Does the xA have such a negative conotation that Scion felt it better to totally remove the name from the line?

EmjayUu

Based on the pictures on scions home page, the new xB looks pretty cool. I am fine with Toyota calling it an xB. However, it is nowhere near as cool as my xB, which I plan on driving forever.... and leaving stock.

ScionEyes

I honestly don't know where to start or what to read! I am wishing that scionlife was as full of posters when the first gen xb came out! I have to say everyone said the same thing then as they are doing now..


the best thing I have recently herd was....


With Scion coming out with an improved model, questions were raised like this.. HOW DO YOU IMPROVE ON A BOX?

Its hard to please everyone and since everyone in ScionLife are already scion owners or entusiasts, with the old scion model lines..

Heck, I personally like it! And I plan on trading in my 1 gen box and getting a 2 gen box, with more rounded curves!

It has more of what "WE" asked scion to put on it!

SO WE ARE THE ONES 2 BLAME FOR THE NEXT GENERATION SCION,
NOT TOYOTA, THEY JUST GAVE US WHAT WE WANTED!

Again just my 2 cents, but we did ask for it!

burstaneurysm

They should've named it xcrossover suv...
Seriously though, this is Toyota's way of capitalizing on the xB name. It doesn't matter what it looks like to them, but people want the name. I would've preferred the xB name to die with the design, but I'm okay knowing that there's never going to be another car like ours again.

Tomas

The original xB was easy and obvious to nickname "The Box."

I seriously doubt that people will think the same about the new one, so long as they are sober.

The original xB is a "City Car" with a design based on getting the absolute maximum usable interior space on a tiny footprint.

The new one is essentially a small van without the sliding doors.



The "replacement" for the xB Classic is a much larger, less space-efficient, more powerful vehicle. It is in a different class, no longer a tiny City Car.

See also: http://tijil.org/blog/

Tom

ScionEyes

tom, i talked with them about your "city car" concerns, and that is what the xD is filling that convern...

I wish I could find the thread in here or somewhere that stated all the things people wanted to change on or about there scions.....

Bubble2Box

No offense meant here in any way......but it's the tC Wagon....

I'm an old skool VW guy....I remember the original Rabbit.....that's what the xB is like.....but VW changed it for the US.....and it BOMBED big time. They even built a plant here in PA that lasted only a few years. Anyone remember the '85 Golf.....??? Anyone??? I didn't think so.....

ROBs-xB

I'm with you Tony (cherrybox), I think the xB should be retired,
to tell you truth the xB2 should be the one being called the xD
and new xD should be the next generation xA, cause the are
indeed very similar.

I say we do some kind of strike thing, to get Toyota to retire
the xB, and name the xB2 something different.

toyotatodd

It's still "not for everbody" that stayin true
Lots of room in the back (more than most luxury vehicles)
Thomas's pic shows loss of its ID profile, well yeah. Look at the corolla and how its lost it's profile like 12 times. It's a corolla because of its nitch it fills in the Toyota brand.

I have bought Toyota since 1987. This is how they evolve each car.


Sure looks like a new b 2 me.

cherryBox

I'm with ya. The nuances of vehicle naming conventions are not lost on me.

From the word go, Scion has seemed as though they would not care to fit into the 'mold' that other brands all seem to come from. It's always been about being different. Underground marketing and new tactics have been the norm.

Why now would they choose to be like the 'joneses'? Why change the designation of the xA, and not the xB?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not interested in hearing the arguments over the styling - there are several threads on that. Let me be very clear that I am saying simply that whatever they call it, it is what it is.

Has anyone noticed that none of the official pictures of the new 'xB' have any sort of xB badge?

Tomas

Well, that's nice, but the "space efficiency" of the xD is NOT the same as the space efficiency of the xB Classic: The rear hatch and load space are much more limiting than on the xB Classic. The xD is a very nice compact hatchback, but there is NOT any way it is as easy to load, nor can it handle the bulky items that the xB swallows without complaint.

Also, the driver/passenger access is much poorer on the xD. Yet another crouch-to-enter small car.

(And can anyone imagine trying to do a wheelchair conversion similar to the Braun Rampvan conversion of the xB on the xD? That is one very clear, very solid example of the difference in usable interior space on a similar footprint.)

I repeat, "There is nothing on the current US market from any manufacturer with the same space efficiency as the now discontinued Scion xB. Nothing. There are no equivalent City Cars available here."

Thanks for asking them, though, I guess they don't understand what a magnificent design the xB Classic was for usable space in a tiny vehicle, and in turn do NOT understand that they have abandoned that niche and those customers.

Tom

surfcity40

Tom think of it this way, IMO...for anyone to espouse that the "car they want next" is even "heard" by a manufacturer sets you apart from 99.0% of the rest of the planet....you folk have an impact on what comes next. As much as you'd like to deny it....scionlife can dictate model changes....they may just be model changes you functionally fixated folk have a tough time swallowing.

Tomas

No, I fully understand that the "new xB" is a direct result of the designers paying very close attention to all the folks who were pleading with Scion to change specific things about the xB Classic. It is absolutely amazing how closely they followed their vociferous customer's "demands."

What may have fallen through the cracks, though, or at least fell below the threshold of being actively noticed, is the even larger group who DIDN'T demand those changes - those who were essentially saying by their silence that the now discontinued Scion vehicles were very appreciated and met their needs and desires.

If *I* were to have been asked what changes I would like to see in the xB Classic, mine would have been very simple and direct: Cruise control, side airbags, and slightly more substantial front and rear pieces that could withstand having another car gently bumping or brushing against them in parallel parking - without damage.

I'm one of the silent ones who did NOT find fault with the original, because 99 and 44/100ths percent of it fully met my needs and desires.

I wouldn't be one to say don't innovate - innovation is one of Scion's strong points, innovation and taking chances.

I fully believe that the new xB2 station wagon will be a strong seller, and will have an avid following: It is a well designed, well put together vehicle specifically designed to answer to the customer's desires. Same for the new xD.

Neither one, however, is a continuation of the City Car theme first introduced to this country with the Scion xB Classic. Tiny car, tiny engine, massive interior space, sophisticated simplicity (minimalism), and undeniably form-follows-function VERY MUCH OVER form-follows-fashion.

Yes, the xD, for example, may have been intended to be a follow-on design for the City Car theme, but each and every extra curve and flowing line added subtracts from the utility and usability of the vehicle in the City Car functions.

Rounded sides, top, rear, and hatch opening? Reduction in usable interior space, even with the same size exterior. A one foot cube holds MUCH more than a one foot sphere even though both take the same size storage niche (parking space).

Exterior curves placed solely for styling tend to make doors and other panels thicker, thereby also increasing the difference between usable interior space and required exterior space.

The real beauty of the xB Classic was that the usable interior space was essentially the required exterior space minus only mechanical and safety required space. No corners trimmed off for looks and lost to utility.

The original xB was a brutally unapologetic, efficient vehicle, and sophisticated well beyond what most can appreciate. There are a lot of very subtle things going on inside those flat panels that make it a pleasing and reliable little box on wheels.

The xB2 is the redesign of that concept up into a totally different class of vehicle, to meet the expressed desires of the loudest 10 percent of those who either bought the box and found it wanting, or who refused to buy the box and said why. I doubt the silent 90 percent wanted their beloved boxes to morph into tC station wagons.

I wish the xB2 buyers all the best, and feel confident that they will be getting a very fine vehicle priced way below what it could be. I'm sure that Scion will listen to them also, as their vehicle matures and changes. The xB3 will reflect the changes the dissatisfied xB2 owners demand.

Scion is doing an amazing job of listening and changing, in this instance it may be their customers who failed. Only those with complaints seem to have said anything at all. Either from a lack of belief that anything we said would count, or simple apathy, the rest of us were silent. For whatever reason the (I believe) majority who appreciated their beloved boxes for what they were didn't make ourselves known.

It could be HOW the questions were asked: The questions were always "What should we change?" or "What would you change?" The questions never seemed to be "What under NO circumstances should be changed?"

Always the focus was "What did we get wrong?" never "What did we get right?"

What happened was that 95% of those things ostensibly "wrong" were corrected in the new design, which is absolutely fantastic! :D Thing is, it also meant some of the really great things they got right were lost.

The xB2 and xD look to be great cars, and should propel Scion forward. Sadly, those of us who MOST liked and appreciated the earlier xB design for what it was no longer have a home. There is no follow-on vehicle that does for us what the box does. That makes me sad.

Tom

lonestar

Tomas, you stated it all. I think after this next 3 year run hopefully people will realize what they lost in the xB classic(and yes everyone should start calling it that.) I think like minded folks like us know what was so great about the idea of the car, the aesthetics aside. I absolutely love the xB classic and I have since I first saw it. Unforntunately for me there was never an oppurtune time for me to get one. I missed out on a car based on the idea of a 'City Car' in every since of the word. It was the first time I saw the American car companies "wake up" to what was practical in the rest of the world. I thought this car would start a revolution not only in design but in the idea of what cars in America could be. I am so utterly let down by Scion's decision to drop the City Car from their line-up.