Everyone is talking and no one is doing so I took it upon myself to gather some of the major intakes on the market and take them for a dyno run.

First off before I go off on any information I would like to give major props out to

Chris and his Crew at HOOK-UPS Import Tek in Upland for helping me find out the truth. Without Chris's expertise on dyno testing and his calibrated DYNOJET none of this would be possible. He's very interested in helping out the Scion community so anyone needs anything please hit him up. He supported us and we should support him!!!!

Also props to:
Steve @ bBist.com for directing me to HOOK-UPS Import Tek. If you all don't know then check out the cool stuff that www.bBist.com offers.

Also to these people/companies for donating/lending intakes to the cause:
Dude w/ the AEM (Still in the box from the dealership)
The Crew @ Injen (Thought it was cool what I was doing even if it didn't favor them)
Eric @ E.L. Prototypes (Sorry about the last minute notice)
John @ SPFR (Has since taken the intake back for further inspection)***EDITED***

Anyways...here it goes.

Time:
Dec. 10th @ 12pm

Place:
HOOK UPS Import Tek
8455 Loma Place
Upland, CA. 91786
909-373-RACE

People working on it:
Chris running the dyno
Me (Scionic) doing the installs
Richard (aka CamoScion) doing the picture taking

Subject:
My Blue Onyx xB 5 speed w/ ~10K miles on it
Stock w/ the exception of a grounding kit by Happies (OG Scionlife member that has since gone AWOL)

Dyno:
3 month old DYNOJET that is well kept, well calibrated, well placed (towards the front of the shop and facing outward toward fresh cool air)

Method:
3 runs per intake with cool down intervals of 3 minutes
Doing a simple Baseline measuring the peak HP & lbs/ft @ the wheels
All intakes are brand new still in sealed package

Intakes: (in the order that they were tested)
1. Stock
2. AEM Cold Air
3. Injen Short Ram
4. SPFR Cold Air
5. EL Prototypes Cold Air

Results: (to make it fair I compared the first run results)

Stock:
92.73 Hp / 95.82 lb/ft.

AEM:
95.86 Hp / 99.09 lb/ft.
+3.13 Hp / +3.27 lb/ft

Injen:
96.80 Hp / 100.59 lb/ft.
+4.07 Hp / +4.77 lb/ft.

SPFR:
94.15 Hp / 98.95 lb/ft.
+1.42 Hp / +3.13 lb/ft.

EL Prototypes:
95.75 Hp / 98.82 lb/ft.
+3.02 Hp / +3.00 lb/ft.

This post is getting long so as soon as I get some questions and critiques I'll post the rest of the results.

man... i really had higher hopes for the SPFR intake...that is too bad.

Looks like injen takes the day.

I wouls however like to see the average power gains for the three runs done with each intake.

SPFR charged you--an OG on here, as well as at the meets...not cool! Anyway...

They got it in the butt in the end...When eric said 20 hp--looks like he was about 19 horses too high on his estimate.

Injen it is, if you want to run an intake it seems.

Thanks alot bro for doing all this...there seems to be a bad case of recommending ____ just because you are buddy buddy with certain companies around here instead of recommending them because they are good products....you all know who you are.

Just wondering...any dyno test or plan for K&N typhoon intake? cuz i'm getting one installed this friday as sponsorship...

just curious.

thanks alot for the intake shootout much props to you and everyone who helped settle this..

also, do you think you can post the dyno sheets? so we can see what was the hp thru out the entire RPM band.. if its possible if not its fine you've done alot already

hmmm thanks mark.
i actually was thinking about AEM but i expected
a lil more than ____ ___ for ponies.
i guess injen or EL is the best for the price.. BOTH under 200 bucks i believe..
and providing like 3-4 ponies to the WHEELS! not flywheels..

i think we should be careful on what we buy.
im sure the peeps who got SPFR must be ticked off
a lil cuz for the same price they could of had a superior product!
i would be ticked off. let us all have DYNO results or track results
or SOME KIND of concrete detail available before we do
recommending of products.. like.. OH YEA.. THIS IS GOOD and that is good..
i defiantly agree with jdmxb(not cuz he's my friend).. i just think
a forum is meant to LOOK OUT or help each other..
now if we all recommended the WRONG STUFF then we'd be
harming ourselves versus helping!

all of this info without the graphs is a little useless really..

Who knows, at LOW rpm, maybe the SPFR intake gives the best gains...which is where you would really feel it...

at what RPM are these numbers taken from???

Thanks for doing all the work Mark..you are the man!

See you saturday...hopefully you don't forget to bring my cd this time ..lol

Great post man...thank you sooooooo much....i was leaning towards getting the injen intake but i still had some doubts, but now i'm sold...thanks for providing us with some facts...keep up the great work man...thanks again

all of this info without the graphs is a little useless really..

Who knows, at LOW rpm, maybe the SPFR intake gives the best gains...which is where you would really feel it...

at what RPM are these numbers taken from???

Honestly, the graphs wouldn't help you much--because most if not all Dyno numbers are taken at MAX HP/MAX TQ Gain.

Do you really want to see an intake making .04 hp at 2krpm, and 1.4 at 5.5k?

The point is, that the numbers are the highest amount of hp/tq gained THROUGHOUT the powerband at ANY given point.

By your logic...the SPFR could make it's mighty 1.4hp at 3k, while the Injen/others make the 4hp at 5.5k...and you would still rock the SPFR????!

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid92/pd906e370709cb5d936919eb835d533a9/fa551759.jpg
well theres the dyno chart from INJEN..
the RED line is INJEN intake on the xB.
and the blue line is stock
SPFR is somewhere BETWEEN THEM 2(closer to the blue)
just eye it

JDMxb...makes sense.

alright, here's a question...
i remember there was a thread showing the dyno results of the SPFR exhaust and intake
http://digitalgraffiti.net/spfrdyno.jpg
based on these figures, are we able to extrapolate the intake hp numbers only? if so, it would appear that the intake makes close to four hp.
just wondering...there appear to be too many variances

hey i just noticed.. out of all the companies.. the one
that produced the LEAST amount of power MADE U PAY FOR IT!
ironic isn't it.. maybe it was their only way to TURN U away from
dynoing their product... but other companies were CONFIDENT
so they were like BRING IT! let the games begin

that sheet shows numbers for the intake AND exhaust...if i am reading correctly.

that sheet shows numbers for the intake AND exhaust...if i am reading correctly.
yeah, so can't u just subtract the numbers?
(intake and exhaust #) - (exhaust only #) = intake # Right?

I can't wait to get my Injen CAI!

BTW, thank you Mark for doing this.

It is greatly appreciated.

scionic, thanks for all the info, i am planning on getting one after christmas and that answer a lot of my questions, good work and thanks again. BIll

Well done...

nice write up Mark!

It was definitely a pleasure so I don't need any props but the guys that helped me organize it does. All those people (HOOK UPS Import Tek, bBist Steve) deserve the props for helping me find out the truth.

Also you guys have to give special props to Rich (aka CamoScion) because after we left HOOK UPS, right as we were getting onto the highway.....HE GOT REAR ENDED BY A SOCCER MOM in a Suburban!!!! Talk about taking one for the team. Anyway he's cool but his box gotta pretty smashed up so next time you see him or talk to him......

Here are the rest of the numbers for the intakes:
3 runs each

AEM:
95.86 hp / 99.09 lb/ft.
95.63 hp / 98.68 lb/ft.
95.14 hp / 98.00 lb/ft.
Average: 95.54 hp / 98.59 lb/ft.

Injen:
96.80 hp / 100.59 lb/ft.
96.25 hp / 100.30 lb/ft.
95.93 hp / 100.48 lb/ft.
Average: 96.32 hp / 100.46 lb/ft.

SPFR:
94.15 hp / 98.95 lb/ft.
94.60 hp / 98.88 lb/ft.
94.23 hp / 98.72 lb/ft.
Average: 94.33 hp / 98.85 lb/ft.

EL Prototype:
95.75 hp / 98.82 lb/ft.
95.96 hp / 99.19 lb/ft.
95.56 hp / 99.34 lb/ft.
Average: 95.76 hp / 99.17 lb/ft.

I'll go ahead and say it now INJEN IS THE WINNER!!!!!
Then comes EL Prototypes, AEM, and SPFR.

Props again to HOOK UPS Import Tek....I can't say enough good stuff about these guys for hookin me up with these awesome numbers to show you peeps at Scionlife.

Avus...it doesn't really work that way because the presence of the exhaust effects the performance of the intake and the point is to find out what the intake can do on its own. Make sense?

that sheet shows numbers for the intake AND exhaust...if i am reading correctly.
yeah, so can't u just subtract the numbers?
(intake and exhaust #) - (exhaust only #) = intake # Right?

You can't--it just doesn't work that way. The exhaust will help the intake along the way, so you can't get true intake numbers by just subtracting.

The numbers are out from Mark already...I'd like to hear from SPFR on this...

Also...did SPFR ever release a dyno sheet with JUST the intake? HMmm....

Just got off the phone with SPFR and they said that they were going to take back the intake for testing to see if there were any discrepancies in the casting/molding process of the intake since it yielded such low results. Talk about being on the ball.!!!

So all in all I didn't get charged a lick for any intake but then again I don't have an intake to show for it. :cry: Still good'ol stock box, but y'all know what I'm going to be running!!! :twisted:

If you guys need help in getting one then I can point you in the right direction and hopefully get you a better price then retail.

thanks for doing the dynos...
now people can decide what they want...

:lol: GREAT JOB :!:

Everyone is talking and no one is doing so I took it upon myself to gather some of the major intakes on the market and take the for a dyno run.


I am heading out on saturday for a dyno so just hold up your horses, I have the manifold back exhaust system and an injen fakie so I will see how it holds up also. I made my intake from 2 1/2in pipe and copied a certain design. :lol: HEHE , anyway I will find out this saturday at our bayarea dyno meet and let you guys know what happens. 8)

Just got off the phone with SPFR and they said that they were going to take back the intake for testing to see if there were any discrepancies in the casting/molding process of the intake since it yielded such low results. Talk about being on the ball.!!!

So all in all I didn't get charged a lick for any intake but then again I don't have an intake to show for it. :cry: Still good'ol stock box, but y'all know what I'm going to be running!!! :twisted:

If you guys need help in getting one then I can point you in the right direction and hopefully get you a better price then retail.

That's great that SPFR are doing that...but Mark...you seem to be missing something very important.

That intake was brand new, and not specially submitted or anything for the dyno. This means that the next person in line to buy an intake from them would have gotten the one that you tested. Now if that person never dynoed his/her car, they would have gotten the one that needs to be re-looked at because of casting/molding problems. I don't think people should have to dyno a product they just bought brand new in order to find out if it's jacked up or not...do you???

...but Mark...you seem to be missing something very important.

That intake was brand new, and not specially submitted or anything for the dyno. This means that the next person in line to buy an intake from them would have gotten the one that you tested.

I didn't miss it.....I just wanted someone else beside me to point that out :wink:

I'm here to present numbers and not opinions...well at least I'm trying.

Also to Stylis.....you weren't one the peeps that was doing the talking so props to you for the dyno run this weekend and I hope you post positive results. Post too please.

hahaha oh man thats funny.
well thank god SOMEONE pointed it out.
and i still think its VERY stupid...
first off they're not willing to sacarfice a piece of crap intake
for a dyno.. and now that they put out 1hp they "take it back"?
I BET U A NYTHING U CAN DYNO EVERYONE THAT HAS IT
and it'll give u the same result... its an intake? how much "FINE"
tuning can they possible do to it? its some pipes connected to an intake.
they swear like its a super charger or turbo setup..

anywhos.. BOO ON SPFR.. now i dont even know about the
REST of their shady products.. are they in the industry to
provide a good product? or are they just here to make a quick buck?
come on.. they "dyno'ed" their intake/exhaust setup.. SO that means
they DO have the resources to dyno.. now if they dyno'ed their own
intake im sure they'll see the 1hp deal.. is it that hard to come across
a STOCK xb? hell i'll take my car there just to make a point.

the SPFR numbers seem way off, i don't know if it was installed incorrectly, if the pipe had some kind of defect in it, or there was some other factors contribuiting to it but there's something weird going on about how poorly it performed.

I'd like to see it dyno'ed when someone from SPFR was there to oversee the install and testing, instead of only reps from EL and Injen (who were the only manufacturers invited to attend the "shootout") with any product there is a chance of getting one that's not manufactured to spec, it's just a bummer if that's the case with this spfr intake as it was specificly used for a dyno test!

anyways I'm taking my car down to be dyno'ed as soon as i have some time off of work - and SPFR is going to let me use the intake in question, and see if it really was a manufacturing defect that caused the low numbers, by running it against my current SPFR intake as well as my stock airbox for a baseline number :)

I don't even care about the performance anymore because it's just so miniscule. This test sux cuz it burns on the good guys. All I know is that SPFR has the nicest guys to talk to and that's all I really care about. They're always there to help out and not just to sell their products. I've never even spoken to Jon or beskone about the intake or exhaust, we just like talking about the possibilities of the scion or what each guy has as a secret plan to do or tried. Their good peeps and that's more I can say about the other people who show up. I'd take their products over anyone else's cuz I trust them.

oh yeah, don't nobody start any of that "biased" crap like in the other post.

Dang.... :shock: ...i'm speechless!

scionic,

Thanks for taking the time to do the dyno tests. I've had the Injen intake since it was released thru the group buy. The SPFR is kind of a disappointment with all of the hype surrounding it. I would have thought they would have given you the intake for testing, and not charging you for it.

Again, thanks for testing the intakes for those who don't already have one. I have Injen intakes on both of my cars!

squirrel

No comment on the SFPR intake dyno results.

As for the other intakes, you do know that you are arguing over less than 1hp!!!! Comical.

People are going to buy what they like, no matter what anyone says. Whether they had a good experience with SFPR as someone else has or if the dyno makes 1 extra hp.

Squirel, SPFR never charged them for the intake - they asked to buy an intake, and didn't tell Jon what it was going to be used for. if they had asked for an intake for testing they would have gotten one for free, and as it stands no money EVER changed hands!


and thanks showpaojoe, Jon is a really good guy, i'm sure he'll appreciate your post :)

I don't even care about the performance anymore because it's just so miniscule. This test sux cuz it burns on the good guys. All I know is that SPFR has the nicest guys to talk to and that's all I really care about. They're always there to help out and not just to sell their products. I've never even spoken to Jon or beskone about the intake or exhaust, we just like talking about the possibilities of the scion or what each guy has as a secret plan to do or tried. Their good peeps and that's more I can say about the other people who show up. I'd take their products over anyone else's cuz I trust them.


WOW!........I personally would rather get my money's worth when I buy a product, rather then buy a possibly lesser performing product just because they guy seems cool. :shock:

I could ____ more power than these things make. It's less than a 2hp difference. I personally had the AEM and am sorry for those that had to pay for the whole thing, $350. But for the price of the others, it's balanced. How much can you expect. We don't know if everything was done right or if something was faulty.

Did you read the AEM post the other day, the filter was completely ripped off and mine has been making weird thumping noises. If SPFR wants to go back to the drawing board and come up with something better or figure out what went wrong, I'd take their word for it.

Forgot to thank Mark for his work, thanx bro

Yea, EVERYONE wants to get there moneys worth when they buy a product...so I don't know why some of you guys are riding on peoples coattails...

Hey, spend 250 on your intake--the guy next to you will spend 180 or so, and kick your ___ doing it. But hey...it's all good because the guy you bought it from was "cool" and even if his claims were high and mighty--they weren't exactly justified in any way shape or form...but hey, he's a cool guy right!

Also to Stylis.....you weren't one the peeps that was doing the talking so props to you for the dyno run this weekend and I hope you post positive results. Post too please.

I will totally post up my results, mmm..I thought the SPFR was supposed to be dyno tested already. I don't understand how the results differ. :? Eric , you wanna add your two cents?

Now your gettin it http://www.scionlife.com/forums/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

LOL...freakin Showpao man...I needa buy you a drink sometime bro. LOL.

Time:
Dec. 10th @ 12am



Dayam.. Only free dyno time you could get was at midnight??? :lol:

Anyways, Sorry to hear about the SPFR intake. That intake was so hyped up too. Almost had me want to convert my injen to a SPFR..Just kidding I love my injen. I figured that if they make some awesome intakes for other ride, of course they are gonna make top notch ____ for the box.

Anyways.. :D GREAT WRITE UP!!! LET'S DO THE AXEL BACK DYNO TESTS NOW!!!!!

Squirel, SPFR never charged them for the intake - they asked to buy an intake, and didn't tell Jon what it was going to be used for. if they had asked for an intake for testing they would have gotten one for free, and as it stands no money EVER changed hands!

and thanks showpaojoe, Jon is a really good guy, i'm sure he'll appreciate your post :)

Hey I told him that I was going to have a shootout (so if he told you otherwise then...)and I also believe that Jon is a good guy. I've known him before he even started SPFR when TSW started so if you think I have something against him then you are wrong.

Do you think that I'm out to slander him? If you do then you got this all wrong.

I offered to pay for it because he is single man operation and everyone is not in business so that they can give away things for free. Beside I figured I would be running it after the dyno testing anyway because I had faith in it since you Besk and the many other people in this board talked so highly of it.

As for faulty install, ask Jon, I called him while we were doing the install to get his take on why I was having a difficult time putting it on. He ran me through it and I got it done.

Like I said before he's taking it back and he's not going to charge me. As for the exchange of money...there wasn't any but I was still planning on paying either way.

I did this to get the numbers out.....read as you want but the fact is people buy products believing that they will get claimed power. I just wanted to show people what I got. And if SPFR need be take it back to the drawing board or get the manufacturers to inspect the mold then it's to his and his consumers benefit.

The only favorites I'm trying to play is for the owner of Scions.

As for ShowPao, if you can ____ more power out then maybe you should market your ___ as the next intake upgrade!!! j/k You'd corner the market and also stink up the market :D

Time:
Dec. 10th @ 12am



Whoops I meant 12pm noon time you guys. Sorry.

Thanks for pointing out Komplex

did i say anything about slander? geeeeez! it was in no way meant like that - but you didn't pay for the intakes so you souldn't have put that down (even if you inteneded to pay, no money had changed hands, so it make it sound bad)

and there are all kinds of possiblilites why the intake didn't put up numbers, that's all i was saying about that.

jon really thinks it was a bad pipe from the manufacturing plant.

since he allways installs the intakes for people, he's able to inspect them as he's working - with the one sealed in the box from the plant, it's possible that something was wrong, and since he wasnt there to do the install there's now way to really know, until he gets the pipe back and has a look.

and ya, it is a good thing that this happened because he's on the ___ of his manufacturer about QC, he's been on the phone since yesterday to get them to tighen up, and he'll be hand inspecting every unit before it goes out to a customer now :)

it's all good, we'll see what happens when we run that pipe against my intake - if they run the same, then that's that - if mine shows a signifigant increase, we know it was a faulty unit - no biggie!

Looks like someone just got...OWNED!@

Hey Mark...thanks again man...good luck at your new place of work bro. We'll chill sometime and talk about intakes...LOL.

Mark here really is looking out for us Scion guys--and not NUT SWINGING from a certain company because he's buddy buddy with them--like I said in a previous post--there is a whole lot of that going on here, and it sucks, but some people just feel like they have to resort to that kinda bull____ for some odd reason.

Thanks Mark--for not being one of those sell-outs.

As for ShowPao, if you can ____ more power out then maybe you should market your ___ as the next intake upgrade!!! j/k You'd corner the market and also stink up the market

HAHAHA :lol: :lol: I'm on the floor!!!

since he allways installs the intakes for people, he's able to inspect them as he's working - with the one sealed in the box from the plant, it's possible that something was wrong, and since he wasnt there to do the install there's now way to really know, until he gets the pipe back and has a look.


Well then that is one thing that can be improved upon then.

Do you have the owner of AEM, Injen, or EL Prototypes come out and install your intake? It should be ,in the most part, a DIY kit.

For Jon's sake I hope he doesn't have to install every single one of the intakes that he sells. Also all inspections for defects should be done after production.....not after sale.

I'm only marketing my ___ to the female scion owners. That way the girlz will have more horsepower to play with, among other things

bang...bang

since he allways installs the intakes for people, he's able to inspect them as he's working - with the one sealed in the box from the plant, it's possible that something was wrong, and since he wasnt there to do the install there's now way to really know, until he gets the pipe back and has a look.


Well then that is one thing that can be improved upon then.

Do you have the owner of AEM, Injen, or EL Prototypes come out and install your intake? It should be ,in the most part, a DIY kit.

For Jon's sake I hope he doesn't have to install every single one of the intakes that he sells. Also all inspections for defects should be done after production.....not after sale.


EXACTLY--why does someone have to go through all that stuff just to buy a brand new product that should work in the first place?

Just think of what I said earlier...imagine I was the next in line to buy that particular SPFR piece and never dynoed it to see...my faith would have resided completely in SPFR's claims...but little would I know that my piece had a "defect" in it. No biggie to you and jon of course, right?

man...if you think coming up with excuses and stuff makes you sound better--to tell you the truth, it's doing the opposite.

But if you were next in line, got the bad unit, waited till this shootout where a good unit was used...you wouldn't think anything about it. You'd think your unit is exactly the same as the good one used in the test. Theoretically speaking of course. Then again, I'm just here for comical support

Then again, I'm just here for comical support

Thank goodness.....and before you market your "Power Making ___" to the ladies make sure you double wipe....alright.

lol! yeah, you wouldn't want to look like that dude playing twister!


seriously, I doubt I would notice a 1HP gain, and I drive scions all day for my job. My dealer car has an AEM in it, and next to my personal car with the SPFR, there's no contest. Jon's intake smokes the AEM, which leads me to doubt the numbers on this shootout.

The fact that Injen and EL were invited, and Jon wasn't adds further suspicion, and the fact that bBist arranged the Dyno (nothing personal Steve, but can we honestly say you're unbiased?) leaves me unconvinced.

Everything else aside (The quality control/ease of install, as well as the feud between bBist and SPFR are irrelevant, and are all issues for another topic), the debate here seems to be HP (and with all these intakes, it's minimal compared to T/C or S/C), and I'd like to see the numbers done again, when Jon is present to inspect the piece and install it. Yeah, from a company standpoint they should all be shipped free from defects and be DIY, but that's another issue.

Regardless, I appreciate the hard work Mark, and thanks to all who participated. I'm just eager to see if someone else tries to repeat the experiment.

lol! yeah, you wouldn't want to look like that dude playing twister!

Yeah dragstips in your tidey whiteys are not too pretty especially when you are playing with the women.

You guys are hillarious!!!

Good job Scionic, glad to see that everything went okay.

not all people look into the hp numbers when buying an intake. and this is talking from a show car point of view. if two different products were out and one only made 1+hp difference but wasn't as attractive. i'd sacrifice the 1+hp gain to gain the looks. and remember this is from a show car point of view. on the other hand if you build a full race car who cares what it looks like.

attention passengers the capt just want to remind you the landing strip has not been wiped down properly so its going to be a bit bumpy :D

attention passengers the capt just want to remind you the landing strip has not been wiped down properly so its going to be a bit bumpy :D

Especially if there were some peanuts eaten the day before! blaah

Hey man, I wear tidey whitey's

just wear brown-colored undies...they'll never know what hit them! :wink:

Just go commando style. that last line of defense is for the weak!

charlies!! charlies everywhere!! wait do they have wedgies, damit charlies going comandos! charlies going comandos!! Send back up !! send back up!!

not all people look into the hp numbers when buying an intake. and this is talking from a show car point of view. if two different products were out and one only made 1+hp difference but wasn't as attractive. i'd sacrifice the 1+hp gain to gain the looks. and remember this is from a show car point of view. on the other hand if you build a full race car who cares what it looks like.

wait a minute here, WHO DOESN'T look at hp when they buy performance products
everything about everything is all numbers.. how low can it go, how much hp does it
add, u can't possibly decide a product based on the BLING factor.

*sniff sniff sniff*
dude are we pulling up to a yoshinoya? cuz i sure as hell smell rice...

for those who have played need for speed UNDERGROUND..
i guess u can call sacraficing quality over LOOKS in an intake
as STYLE POINTZZZZZ... oh man...

ps: its a 3hp difference not 1. hence the mixed feelings about the SPFR.

As for the parties that were present, they had nothing to do with dynoing or the installs of the intakes.

I told Jon that I would be doing a shootout, I asked EL Prototypes for an intake so a representative came out to deliver and stayed around.

I picked up an Injen and then a representative followed us to the test site.

They touched nothing.

As for bBist setting it up...he did, but HOOK UPS Import Tek is on neutral ground. And I made sure that everything was fair (in other words, ran my car into the ground to get the best results from all of the intakes) I just posted numbers, if you guys want the full write up then that can be arranged. But then you guys definitely wouldn't like what I have to say about the installs.

If you think they play favorites then come talk to them. They specialize on making cars go fast...especially Honda's but they wanted to see what the truth was and they think Scion's are cool and would like to help support the community. Whoa!!! Honda guys that are trying to help Scion guys!!! Who would have "thunk it!!!"

I just posted numbers, if you guys want to the full write up then that can be arranged. But then you guys definitely wouldn't like what I have to say about the installs.

I can give a rats ___ about feud this and feud that. I think that they are both stupid (sorry Jon and Steve) for having it, but not everyone can get along.

Ultimately this was for the benefit of you guys....I'm just sorry it came up this way because I always love to see the underdogs come out on top and I hope that if there is a problem with any of the intakes that they get rectified and we make the sick amount of HP that these intake companies claim.

dude are we pulling up to a yoshinoya? cuz i sure as hell smell rice...

for those who have played need for speed UNDERGROUND..
i guess u can call sacraficing quality over LOOKS in an intake
as STYLE POINTZZZZZ... oh man...

ps: its a 3hp difference not 1. hence the mixed feelings about the SPFR.

Elroy has a point because some intakes can simply look butt ugly. So hook me up with some STYLE POINTZZZZZ for the show and then I'll slap back on my ugly ___ HP producing equipment outside before I go home.

So Ricey!!!! So Nicey!!! LOL....where are my stickers?!!!! I need HORSE POWER!!!!!!

I'd ask you to post the whole write-up and all your thoughts but I don't want you to spend all that time typing cuz I don't like when people waste time, even though it's not "wasting." I'd just like to get the bashfest rolling again and away from my ___.

Thank you

I'm all for getting off the topic of man ___!


I can give a rats ___ about feud this and feud that. I think that they are both stupid (sorry Jon and Steve) for having it, but not everyone can get along.

Ultimately this was for the benefit of you guys....I'm just sorry it came up this way because I always love to see the underdogs come out on top and I hope that if there is a problem with any of the intakes that they get rectified and we make the sick amount of HP that these intake companies claim.

Well said Mark. I like the way you put that!

I'm all for getting off the topic of man ___!


Yes definitely please. Talk about man ___ blows or in Showpao's case, it sucks......more horsies then the intakes I dynoed.

I'm so glad you all find me attractive. No wonder I'm always getting sucked and blown, my piping is in such high demand. Now if I can only find someone to back me up on the product design, we can ship it for personal use.

wow, this is an amazing thread. i will have to read the rest later.

I wonder if it'll get to 13 pages too...then the scion throwback page is going to have some competition

That's what I was thinkin but this will be run by me, dibujob, scionic, and anyone else who appreciates my butt

The SPFR has what seems to be the best intake design, but IMO are running what appears to be a crappy filter. Also it would be nice to see them all graphed, as peak figures don't tell the whole story! In this engine torque is what you want so the SPFR would not end up in last place!

Overall the SPFR makes more torque than the AEM! In this engine torque is probably more important for acceleration!

It was definitely a pleasure so I don't need any props but the guys that helped me organize it does. All those people (HOOK UPS Import Tek, bBist Steve) deserve the props for helping me find out the truth.

Also you guys have to give special props to Rich (aka CamoScion) because after we left HOOK UPS, right as we were getting onto the highway.....HE GOT REAR ENDED BY A SOCCER MOM in a Suburban!!!! Talk about taking one for the team. Anyway he's cool but his box gotta pretty smashed up so next time you see him or talk to him......

Here are the rest of the numbers for the intakes:
3 runs each

AEM:
95.86 hp / 99.09 lb/ft.
95.63 hp / 98.68 lb/ft.
95.14 hp / 98.00 lb/ft.
Average: 95.54 hp / 98.59 lb/ft.

Injen:
96.80 hp / 100.59 lb/ft.
96.25 hp / 100.30 lb/ft.
95.93 hp / 100.48 lb/ft.
Average: 96.32 hp / 100.46 lb/ft.

SPFR:
94.15 hp / 98.95 lb/ft.
94.60 hp / 98.88 lb/ft.
94.23 hp / 98.72 lb/ft.
Average: 94.33 hp / 98.85 lb/ft.

EL Prototype:
95.75 hp / 98.82 lb/ft.
95.96 hp / 99.19 lb/ft.
95.56 hp / 99.34 lb/ft.
Average: 95.76 hp / 99.17 lb/ft.

I'll go ahead and say it now INJEN IS THE WINNER!!!!!
Then comes EL Prototypes, AEM, and SPFR.

Props again to HOOK UPS Import Tek....I can't say enough good stuff about these guys for hookin me up with these awesome numbers to show you peeps at Scionlife.

I don't think you can tell whether an intake is "done right" until you take careful inspection of the design. For intakes, low pressure loss = high air flow = more power. Coming from an fluid dynamics background, the long, slow turn that the SFPR intake has may not result in the lowest pressure loss. Also, some of the plastic intakes I have seen are glassy smooth the inside. You may think that this reduces pressure drop, but for "low output" motors such as the XB, a slightly roughened interior surface (such as unpolished aluminum) will likely result in lower pressure loss (more air flow). This has to do with a reduced boundary layer. Same reason why golf balls have dimples. Many high performance intakes are bead blast on the inside not just to look good, but to reduce pressure loss. In addition to this, the obstuctions on the inside the intake must be minimised, the length should be minimized (as long as you receive cold air), turns should be minimized. The inlet to the intake pipe (at filter) should have a smoothed (prefferably elliptical) inlet. When it comes down to it, Injen has addressed each and every one of these design issues and this is why their intake produces the most power.

What surprised me is how well the AEM intake did. Not too bad considering how long and how many turns the intake has. I'm sure that AEM had a lot of requirements from Toyota that made them supply this crazy intake routing. Even so, the intake works.

Thanks for doing the dyno tests!!!! It confirmed the response that my Xb received by putting the Injen on. It did get a noticable pickup from about 3K up. (It was enough to spank the Mazda MP5 getting on the freeway!) Phillip, if you could please let us all know when the EO number becomes available, we would appreciate it :D . I remember you said they did the tests and you should have the confirmation about April or May but I'm just thinking about in case I get pulled over, I want to make sure they know it's legal. (I hate these California smog laws!!! :cry: ) Congrats on the test results of a great intake!

thanks for the effort put out by you and others for the dyno sessions. Thats a great thing youve done to help show all the scionlife members the outputs of the intakes. I do agree thats its a measly 1hp, but you know what? some people actually care (not me). Lets not forget this box only does 108 hp flywheel (quoting from the manufacturer). Sometimes its not just one angle of the product that sells, but the customer service as well as all the other ingredients to what makes the product "that product". It's funny how some people on this board take things personal and start bad mouthing. I know everyone here is entitled to free speech, but if its not helping the advancement of the group, then please, keep the opinion to yourself. Theres no point in starting wars over this board cause its plain retarded. Theres been companies products that ive ran on my car before that aren't the most EXPENSIVE thing on the market or the HIGHEST grade, but you know what? That company took care of me if ever and when something went wrong. Sometimes they help me out on parts not even related to them. Customer service sells and from what i hear, Jon does a kick ___ job of that. I'm glad theres people out there doing stuff for the scion independantly cause w/o thered be less of a choice. If you guys were wondering, NO i am not from any of the companies that had anything to do w/ this dyno testing, im just a guy that likes building cars.


Mike
97 Toyota Rav4 -Bomex- stolen :cry:
95 Lexus SC300 -Bomex- sold to pay for school :oops:
04 Scion xB -in the works- :wink:

Like I said it was definitely my pleasure and the guys at Hook Ups love finding the truth.

But you have to ask yourself one thing....would you trade customer service for power?

Jon's a great guy and he has been doing nothing but the best to take care of this situation to ensure that his customers are done right. and to save face. So props to him for that.

seriously, I doubt I would notice a 1HP gain, and I drive scions all day for my job. My dealer car has an AEM in it, and next to my personal car with the SPFR, there's no contest. Jon's intake smokes the AEM, which leads me to doubt the numbers on this shootout.

Not necessarily... it might feel like the SPFR "smokes the AEM." Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't.

The SPFR intake seems to rank amongst the leaders when it comes to torque. If it achieves full torque at a lower RPM band than any of the other competitors, the SPFR intake will indeed feel like it's "pulling" away from the others. In fact, if full torque for the SPFR *is* realized at a lower RPM than the others, it could even show up in 1/4 mile times. It would seem that the SPFR -- by design -- is a torquer. It probably has a higher intake velocity at lower RPMs, but lower CFM at higher RPMs. What we really need is a larger bore throttle body to take full advantage of these CAIs.

Having said that, each CAI has a dollar amount attached to it and an associated value based on price/performance ratio. Only the buyer can decide if their purchase is/was worth it.

BTW My next dyno will be off ShowPaoJoe's "Power mASSter ButtCharger"

I heard that his company motto was going to be
"Stinkin Up the Streets With Power You Can't Beat!!!"

Having said that, each CAI has a dollar amount attached to it and an associated value based on price/performance ratio. Only the buyer can decide if their purchase is/was worth it.

Very well put and super important so when it comes down to it....which intake gets you your best bang for your buck?

Squirel, SPFR never charged them for the intake - they asked to buy an intake, and didn't tell Jon what it was going to be used for. if they had asked for an intake for testing they would have gotten one for free, and as it stands no money EVER changed hands!


and thanks showpaojoe, Jon is a really good guy, i'm sure he'll appreciate your post :)

Ah, ok. maybe I should read these posts when I've had some rest.

Man im so glad i bought the injen thatnx for the info.

So it's early and really cold and I need to get the Hamster in my brain warmed up and rolling...here some more numbers for you guys.

Based upon the numbers I got and the prices from ScionTuner I did a cost/power comparison: (note this if course overall power from the car but I'm not about to add the price of my car so that we can results to the upteenth decimal)

SPFR:
@$249.00 yields
$2.61 per hp $2.53 per lb/ft

EL Prototypes:
@ $189.00 yields
$1.97 per hp $1.91 per lb/ft

Injen:
@ $210.00 yields
$2.18 per hp $2.00 per lb/ft

AEM:
@ $335.00 yields
$3.51 per hp $3.40 per lb/ft

So just based on numbers and no other factors considered AEM is the winner for taking your money and leaving you with little power.

While on the opposite end of the spectrum EL Proto is dropping the good bang for the buck.

But I've heard that SPFR and Injen have since lowered their prices but I'm too lazy to look. And I could have swore that the AEM was more expensive but we'll take low balls to keep it fair.

I've seen the Injen as low as $149.

That's what I was thinkin but this will be run by me, dibujob, scionic, and anyone else who appreciates my butt

Showpaojoe, The Scion owning girls do appreciate your butt! Just got your latest video. Love your work!

http://man-faye.mooniidx.com/index.php?page=1

:shock: Now that's just wrong on so many levels :lol: .

hey everyone. wow, controversial thread here. i think you guys need to look at not only peak dyno numbers, but numbers across the board. 1-5hp gain at 6000rpm isn't as important as how much power is being made over the whole range of engine speeds. i have the SPFR intake on my car, and it's fast. really fast. there is no way my car is making only 1 HP over stock. that is impossible. i can spin my tires in 2nd gear and i could never do that before. if it is possible, i would like to dyno my stock scion with spfr intake and see how much power it is making.

also, it should be noted that jon tested a few different intake designs to see which made more HP. the one he ended up going with made the most power, and it wasn't 1HP it was more. something seems odd about that test. but since this is the only shootout done so far, this is what we have to go by. it's just a shame to be that SPFR might lose sales because of this test, which may or may not be accurate.

by the way, i got pulled over 2 days ago for going "way too fast". this was in dana point going up a hill coming out of a gas station. he told me i had a modified exhaust on my car and there is no way i only had 108hp on my car. he said he saw me accelerate faster than most performance cars are able to. then he told me i had the "most god-awful ugly, car on the road", and to slow down because "it's hard to blend in with a car like that". then he let me go, laughing at me as he walked away. true story. not that my car is like screaming fast, but it was enough for him to make an illegal U-turn to chase me up the hill and pull me over in heavy traffic.

to sum it up: butt dyno says more than 1 HP. that is all.

looks like by cost. the el prototypes and injen intake are the best for the money. i would also like know about the installs.

Ashleigh, why do you have to share our private moments with eachother? I thought our love conquers everything.

And for your information, hairy = good flow/aerodynamic = hp

scionic, stop "spreadin" the word

hee hee..sorry. I wont show anymore videos....until you get rich & famous & I can make more money! :lol:

That's what I was thinkin but this will be run by me, dibujob, scionic, and anyone else who appreciates my butt

Showpaojoe, The Scion owning girls do appreciate your butt! Just got your latest video. Love your work!

http://man-faye.mooniidx.com/index.php?page=1

man oh man showpaojoe

you sure look good in drag....and man can u shake your booty :mrgreen:

hee hee..sorry. I wont show anymore videos....until you get rich & famous & I can make more money! :lol:

We'll lets pretend I'm rich and famous, I and give you a million dollars. So now I...
am rich and famous AND you made a lot of money. NOW SHOW US VIDEOS!! :D

I just have the worst image ever burned into my eyes. Thanks a lot ash

I just have the worst image ever burned into my eyes. Thanks a lot ash

Shouldn't that be burniated into your eyes???

BTW My next dyno will be off ShowPaoJoe's "Power mASSter ButtCharger"

I heard that his company motto was going to be
"Stinkin Up the Streets With Power You Can't Beat!!!"
its like a sore weiner....

you just cant beat it!

I just have the worst image ever burned into my eyes. Thanks a lot ash

Shouldn't that be burniated into your eyes???

:lol: !!!

I guess you're right about that! The gots burninated like a thatch roofed cottage!

That's what I was thinkin but this will be run by me, dibujob, scionic, and anyone else who appreciates my butt

Showpaojoe, The Scion owning girls do appreciate your butt! Just got your latest video. Love your work!

http://man-faye.mooniidx.com/index.php?page=1

I think I'm gonna ................................................puke!

Like I said it was definitely my pleasure and the guys at Hook Ups love finding the truth.

But you have to ask yourself one thing....would you trade customer service for power?

Jon's a great guy and he has been doing nothing but the best to take care of this situation to ensure that his customers are done right. and to save face. So props to him for that.

Hmmm...well, if everyone else has heard any horror stories with cust serv of AEM/Injen/EL please, share them.

I wouldn't trade either in for one another--but why can't we have both--as seen by AEM/Injen/EL...unless someone has a horrid exp. with these.

149 for the Injen as well...prices just make the whole thing a little more clear for everyone to see...

Ashleigh!! my eyes, my delicated eyes!!! :shock: I'm blind, I'm typing by memory because I've spent way too much on this site and know the tab placements of everything...

as for the intake results, bring it on again, I think if anything this will provide us some momentum to put together some real numbers. We can each try and put our work into it by creating some info we can all work with. Scionic and everyone else who worked on it should be thanked, if not for the results at least for the attempt because no one else has stepped up to see what we can do. This won't be the last shootout for sure, and we'll all be better for it

hey toufic

i was looking up what you have in your sig, ~~esse quam videri~~ out of curiosity....

Esse Quam Videri, is Latin for 'to be rather than to seem'. Basically it means that living in the present is better then reminiscing about the past or dreaming of the future. It also can be interpreted as, ‘truth is always more important than illusion’.

i like that! thanks!

***UPDATE***

SPFR came by today to pick up the intake in question. Jon overlooked the piece and assured me that it was a defect by pointing out numberous defects in that particular intake.

For instance, the inlet that hooks up to the throttlebody side was casted/molded incorrectly and it didn't make a full circle instead it was warped looking.

Also I noticed while holding the intake that there was a blemish or little plastic shard hanging but still attached to the inside of the intake barrel. Jon assured me that was an additional part of this casting defect.

And also Jon had noticed that one of the mounting holes for the MAF sensor was overtapped causing it to break through into the intake barrel.

The reason for me recieving this defect was for the fact that he was not able to review the intake before installing since I insisted that the package be sealed so that I got them all new and fresh.

So as I write this, Jon is in SD putting the whoop down on the manufacturer for FUBAR'ing his intake design and hopefully this situation will be resolved and he assured me that his intake should be making 3.8 hp to ground.

Props to him for taking care of this ASAP.

I'm sure that AEM had a lot of requirements from Toyota that made them supply this crazy intake routing. Even so, the intake works.

Bingo.

Anyone think about the positive pressure in the crank case under full load? There is air coming thru the breather hose on one of the kits that's already accounted for. I think CARB would be crazy to pass such a kit. Oil on the MAF sensor is not something I'd want. Not everyone is as anal as I am. :)

i think we should just take a bunch of cars to fontana and see who is the fastest :D

how come SPFR hasn't posted on this topic yet? mmm... well anyway I just filled up with some 91octane for tomorrows dyno meet at Modacar. Sooooo, many good posts up in here.

I'm sure that AEM had a lot of requirements from Toyota that made them supply this crazy intake routing. Even so, the intake works.

Bingo.

Anyone think about the positive pressure in the crank case under full load? There is air coming thru the breather hose on one of the kits that's already accounted for. I think CARB would be crazy to pass such a kit. Oil on the MAF sensor is not something I'd want. Not everyone is as anal as I am. :)

Is AEM the only one with a non oiled filament in the test..?

That would be very interesting indeed...as I didn't want an oiled filter to begin with.

Even though they weren't one of the companies in the shootout, I say K&N's Typhoon intake will top all these when it comes out.

***UPDATE***

SPFR came by today to pick up the intake in question. Jon overlooked the piece and assured me that it was a defect by pointing out numberous defects in that particular intake.

For instance, the inlet that hooks up to the throttlebody side was casted/molded incorrectly and it didn't make a full circle instead it was warped looking.

Also I noticed while holding the intake that there was a blemish or little plastic shard hanging but still attached to the inside of the intake barrel. Jon assured me that was an additional part of this casting defect.

And also Jon had noticed that one of the mounting holes for the MAF sensor was overtapped causing it to break through into the intake barrel.

The reason for me recieving this defect was for the fact that he was not able to review the intake before installing since I insisted that the package be sealed so that I got them all new and fresh.

So as I write this, Jon is in SD putting the whoop down on the manufacturer for FUBAR'ing his intake design and hopefully this situation will be resolved and he assured me that his intake should be making 3.8 hp to ground.

Props to him for taking care of this ASAP.

i wonder how many other intakes made it out with those defects?

Showpow joe can ____ more power than that. does this mean that he has a free flowing ___?Free of restriction, or is it over sized,reemed and bored out? I don't even want to know who did that work. Hey Joe do you make noise when you fart? No, you can't if your ___ is making more than 4 hp over stock. How much did it cost,or was it BANG for the buck. with a match I am sure he has a flame thower too, I am not going to bust on his ___ anymore, because somebody already did thats why it is so freeflowing. I am sorry Joe,I could not resist it. Iam just kidding. Bill

I'm sure that AEM had a lot of requirements from Toyota that made them supply this crazy intake routing. Even so, the intake works.

Bingo.

Anyone think about the positive pressure in the crank case under full load? There is air coming thru the breather hose on one of the kits that's already accounted for. I think CARB would be crazy to pass such a kit. Oil on the MAF sensor is not something I'd want. Not everyone is as anal as I am. :)

Is AEM the only one with a non oiled filament in the test..?

That would be very interesting indeed...as I didn't want an oiled filter to begin with.

Aren't most, if not all, CAI fitted with an oiled cone filter?

SPFR hasn't posted because he's super busy trying to fix his manufacturing problem, as well as making sure people with his intake didn't get a defect one, as well as aranging some dyno time for a re-test.

if you are at the show today and you have your car there, and own an spfr intake, ask jon to take a look, i'm sure he'd be happy to do a quick visual inspection to assure you have a good production peice :)

Today is my Dyno day!!! I will see how much horse I am pushing with my manifold back system and my injen fakie! :lol: I hope I don't make an ___ out of my self like that ___ performance company Showpowjoe :lol:

I'm sure that AEM had a lot of requirements from Toyota that made them supply this crazy intake routing. Even so, the intake works.

Bingo.

Anyone think about the positive pressure in the crank case under full load? There is air coming thru the breather hose on one of the kits that's already accounted for. I think CARB would be crazy to pass such a kit. Oil on the MAF sensor is not something I'd want. Not everyone is as anal as I am. :)

Is AEM the only one with a non oiled filament in the test..?

That would be very interesting indeed...as I didn't want an oiled filter to begin with.

The oil I was referring to was actually motor oil. All AEM and most filters come preoiled. If the filter has any color to it, it should be oiled. The cotton gauze is white first, then oiled. If you look at AEM's filter cleaning kit, it has a bottle of oil which is the same red.

Good luck on dyno NORCAL FOLKS!!

Anyone think about the positive pressure in the crank case under full load? There is air coming thru the breather hose on one of the kits that's already accounted for. I think CARB would be crazy to pass such a kit. Oil on the MAF sensor is not something I'd want. Not everyone is as anal as I am. :)

Are there any aftermarket intakes with the breather hose downstream of the MAF sensor?

i was looking at the dyno charts for the spfr inake and exhaust the injen intake. the inken dyno numbers from the shootout are actually really close to what they dyno'd and have posted on their site. you can't really expect a 10-15 horsepower jump fom just an intake on a car that puts out 108.

I'm still interested in seeing what numbers the SPFR intake puts out on re-test..

Hows about just using a K&N drop in and taking off the resinator box? You'll have to forgive me, i dont physically have my xB as of yet, but i did this on my Accent and my NEON, both had considerable gains after the filter switch and res. removal. It looks to be a hell of a lot cheaper for the K&N OE replacement filter, rather then a whole new intake, no?

CB

I did it!!! i DYNOED AT THE FABULOUS MODACAR!! here arre the results.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid93/pb46b0ccb16db4bf9015eebc0319d3234/fa4e5c34.jpg
close up on numbers
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid93/p5c3517a523c7d17e2753322018b2e9fc/fa4e5c35.jpg
Comments? I am using a manifold back system, a 2 1/2in pipe that copies the injen intake design and I am sitting on 18in velox rims.

I also want to THANK bBist (Steve) for trying to help me when I paniced about the traction control messing up the dyno. :oops: Steve, they did something wierd and it activated it. They just turned the car off and restarted it, it was fine after.

Hey Stylis,

you are using the K&N cone with tubing, correct? I was wondering about using the drop in and just opening up the filter box to allow more air into the box.

Anyone have a part number for the K&N drop in for the xB? I would think it is the same set up as the Echo, no?

CB

Well you could go K&N or TRD.. the K&N model number is 33-2211. However, just an FYI, my buddy and I g-teched a stock 1/4 mile vs. one with the TRD filter and found less performance out of the TRD. I might actually switch back to the OEM filter, unless I go with a CAI.

I am actually using an OBX cone filter (blue to match the car) and using the drop in will work fair. The short ram is exactly what it means short distance to the Throttle body. But I have never talked down about K&N, so I don't see why it wouldn't make a difference :D

Anyone think about the positive pressure in the crank case under full load? There is air coming thru the breather hose on one of the kits that's already accounted for. I think CARB would be crazy to pass such a kit. Oil on the MAF sensor is not something I'd want. Not everyone is as anal as I am. :)

Are there any aftermarket intakes with the breather hose downstream of the MAF sensor?

They better be, its metered air.

how come SPFR hasn't posted on this topic yet? mmm... well anyway I just filled up with some 91octane for tomorrows dyno meet at Modacar. Sooooo, many good posts up in here.

Jon's computer's been broken for a few days, and he hasn't had time to fix it. Between yelling at the manufacturer who shipped a screwed intake, he's also in the shop working on a ton of projects. Also, he had to get ready for the show yesterday...he made some awesome looking fender flares for the xA...very cool!

Stylis, not a problem. I just wish I could have been more helpful. Glad to see everything went okay.

Very nice results. Congrats! :D

-Steve

Ya man, when Jon's ready he'll bring it on for you guys. He's got the most going for him right now. Only other guy who did a bodykit including fender flare for an xA. That ____ was so clean, I kept doing flashbacks between his car and another xA to compare every piece. And his new fiberglass subbox for the xA is absoutely sick, don't lose anything in the trunk and it just pops out. He didn't return any of my messages because his computer was messed.

Bill, you just couldn't hold it in huh? I'm so bored out, neither could I I guess

Bust

He's got the most going for him right now. Only other guy who did a bodykit including fender flare for an xA. That ____ was so clean....


Yeah that kit is sickkk!!!!!!!! Jon hit it right on the money with that kit. That's the way widebody should be...not the bondo magic that yellow xA has. Now they just have to make damn lower offset wheels with some mad lippage for our cars!!!!!!!!!!

What are you talking about mark...plenty of companies already makes some sick lippage and low low offsets for our cars...the problem is the chedda is a lot to dish out for them though!!!!!

Haha...but with your new job and all...I don't see that being a problem, mr. high roller.

Drinks on the house, courtesy of MARK PHIZAM!!!!!!!!!!

thanks bBist for the props, I have been hearing that I should have used my stock wheels for more HP. Is that true? would that have worked better than my 18s?

THey would have worked A LOT better.. those 18s will sap torque in a hurry due to the excess rotational mass.

Agreed, thats why you never polish your intake manifold only port match,the combustion chamber is another story to prevent carbon from sticking. A few years ago one of the tuner magazines had a good article on air flow dynamics the golf ball ball effect, dimpling, polishing etc. I would have guessed AEM went with the long pipe path for more toruqe but this test proves otherwise, maybe a smaller diameter pipe would yeild better air velocity.



I don't think you can tell whether an intake is "done right" until you take careful inspection of the design. For intakes, low pressure loss = high air flow = more power. Coming from an fluid dynamics background, the long, slow turn that the SFPR intake has may not result in the lowest pressure loss. Also, some of the plastic intakes I have seen are glassy smooth the inside. You may think that this reduces pressure drop, but for "low output" motors such as the XB, a slightly roughened interior surface (such as unpolished aluminum) will likely result in lower pressure loss (more air flow). This has to do with a reduced boundary layer. Same reason why golf balls have dimples. Many high performance intakes are bead blast on the inside not just to look good, but to reduce pressure loss. In addition to this, the obstuctions on the inside the intake must be minimised, the length should be minimized (as long as you receive cold air), turns should be minimized. The inlet to the intake pipe (at filter) should have a smoothed (prefferably elliptical) inlet. When it comes down to it, Injen has addressed each and every one of these design issues and this is why their intake produces the most power.

What surprised me is how well the AEM intake did. Not too bad considering how long and how many turns the intake has. I'm sure that AEM had a lot of requirements from Toyota that made them supply this crazy intake routing. Even so, the intake works.

just a quick question to those with an Injen intake, with your intake installed does it cause your maintanance light to be on at all times?Thanks

that will happen with any intake, just take the positive lead off your battery for a few seconds and re-attach - viola! check engine light is reset :)

WOW! THANKS FOR THE INFRO!

What are you talking about mark...plenty of companies already makes some sick lippage and low low offsets for our cars...the problem is the chedda is a lot to dish out for them though!!!!!

Haha...but with your new job and all...I don't see that being a problem, mr. high roller.

Drinks on the house, courtesy of MARK PHIZAM!!!!!!!!!!

WTH....I'm only small fish for now but for you J, drinks on the house don't seem a problem. Call it a "Buddy Club" round!!!!

For those of you that don't know what I'm talking about, I am no longer with Longo Scion. I have since moved on to become an Accounts Manager (awesome title but the doesn't mean the pay is there yet) for Buddy Club USA. Yes you heard it right....USA. They've officially decided to represent for themselves so they are opening an office here in the States.

The great thing is they are going to be bringing over some very nice stuff for Scions, so stay tuned. And speaking of high offset wheels....trying to get Japan to roll us some SFII with a nice phat lip for us lip fetish peeps.

joe, your cool. way cool dude. Bill

i know this is off topic, but can someone post a link or a picture of the xA widebody kit jon did. i want to see it. thanks.

here are some pics of the widebody kit , just imagine with rims with a stoopid low offset and phatty lip on this car....whoooooo!:

http://autoimportcraze.com/images/classics03/cl34.jpg


http://autoimportcraze.com/images/classics03/cl33.jpg


http://autoimportcraze.com/images/classics03/cl35.jpg

and can someone post the dyno sheets from the shootout? i'd like to see how all the intakes made power throughout the rev's rather than just a peak number :)

sorry but lj's is better than that "widebody".it looks like a pt cruiser :(

sorry but lj's is better than that "widebody".it looks like a pt cruiser :(

you have to be smokin....the only thing that didn't look to great was the fact of wheel of the wheel tuck but aside from that......that kit smokes Bondoboy's xA by far.

I am going to have to agree...

I thought garcias xa looked like a big mess.

Those flares would look real hot with some better wheels.

jomo wrote:
I'm sure that AEM had a lot of requirements from Toyota that made them supply this crazy intake routing. Even so, the intake works.


the first injen intake looks exactley like the aem one...it has the same bends and everything...it is installed on the injen xb...saw it at the show...wonder what hp that one makes? :wink:

sorry but lj's is better than that "widebody".it looks like a pt cruiser :(

haha and i thought it looked like a ford bogus..
guess i was a lil off.

racer, you are right....i just looked at my pics from SEMA....i never even noticed that before.

The only advantage to that design (that i see) is esthetic appeal. The straight CAIs are practically hidden, but the AEM looks more trick cause you can see the bling.

that is xA is not really widebody. it is a fender/bubble flare. looks pretty good though. a lot cleaner look.

HI GUYS MY NAME IS LEO FROM WEAPON*R.
I WOULD LIKE TO INTRODUCE MYSELF, I WORK AT WEAPON*R IN THEIR R&D DEPT. I BEEN FOLLOWING THIS THREAD FOR SOME TIME.

SORRY WE WERE LATE TO THIS INTAKE SHOOTOUT..
I JUST GOT BACK FROM VACATION AND I HAD AN PROTOTYPE INTAKE FOR THE CAR READY BUT DIDNT HAVE TIME TO SUBMIT IT FOR THIS TEST YOU GUYS WERE DOING.

I WOULD LOVE TO SEND ONE OF MY PROTOTYPE INTAKES TO YOUR TEST AND SEE IF ANYONE IS INTRESTED IN TESTING IT FOR US.. OR WE CAN GO TO A DYNO AND TEST OUR INTAKE FOR THE XB AND SHOW YOU GUYS THE RESULTS..

THANKS,
LEO

I'm still really curious to see the dynos from the shootout. Why haven't they been posted yet?

i'm getting my car dyno'ed tomorrow morning, so i'll post my dyno sheets with my car stock and with the spfr intake in the evening when i get home from work.

but i'd still like to see the power curve and consecutive hp gains from the aem, el and injen, hopefully someone will post the dyno sheets for those too :)

i'm getting my car dyno'ed tomorrow morning, so i'll post my dyno sheets with my car stock and with the spfr intake in the evening when i get home from work.

but i'd still like to see the power curve and consecutive hp gains from the aem, el and injen, hopefully someone will post the dyno sheets for those too :)

Cool, can't wait to see the curve's for Jon's production piece. I'd seen the ones in October from the prototype, but I can't believe the results from the shootout. There is no way my car drives the way it does with 1hp gain...impossible.

I'd also like the see the curves from the other intakes. I hope Leo can get in on one of these too, because I'd also love to see the weapon R!

Sorry it took so long....I finally found someone with a scanner that was good enough to get the whole image since the lines are kinda skinny. Hopefully you can get the huge image as I scanned it. If you don't then copy and paste the image below the pic.

Keep in mind:
Scionic001 = Stock
Scionic004 = AEM
Scionic007 = Injen
Scionic010 = SPFR
Scionic013 = EL Prototypes

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid93/p2a0fec533a3b25c7b32655ef165ae1f6/fa41f628.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid93/p2a0fec533a3b25c7b32655ef165ae1f6/fa41f628.jpg.orig.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid93/p7eb3c9a40a0b16c73e3b843e7da93fa3/fa41f62d.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid93/p7eb3c9a40a0b16c73e3b843e7da93fa3/fa41f62d.jpg.orig.jpg

nicely done with the injen set-up scionic:D Now is everyone satisfied or are we waiting for someone else? I already posted mine on page 5 of this topic.

yup, now just waiting for me to dyno tomorrow :) i'll post the sheets as soon as i can tomorrow evening!

Cool mark...thanks for putting those up!!

those help.

those help.

sorry you have to have fish bowl glasses to see that dyno sheet but I swear if you cut & paste and hit the full size icon in the bottom right hand of the pic you should see it in all it's glory.

also let me know what you guys think.

I can see them perfectly, and I like what I see. Perfect results on all of the intakes. These results should really help.

I have a question........

Other than the AEM.....which other intakes are CARB approved?
Will Toyota warranty the egines with anything but the AEM?

right now only the AEM has a C.A.R.B. number

the SPFR is C.A.R.B. pending (paperwork submitted, waiting for an approval)

and i think the injen is pending also

most of the dealers won't trip on an intake for warranty work - my dealer even wants to stock the SPFR, but has to wait for the CARB number before he can offer it from the dealership.

most of the dealers won't trip on an intake for warranty work - my dealer even wants to stock the SPFR, but has to wait for the CARB number before he can offer it from the dealership.

yeah I agree....don't trip on it too much because they won't unless it's something that directly relates to the intake.

IMO ... it cant get any clearer then that. Looks like Injen is the right choice. Thanks for all the hard work for us who wanted to know. :wink:

can someone please update one of these stickies with the spfr results?

Stock: HP: 98.6 Torque: 103.4
SPFR Shootout Intake: HP: 103.2 Torque: 105.5
SPFR Inventory Intake: HP: 103.1 Torque: 103.7
SPFR Besk one's Intake: HP: 103.6 Torque: 105.0 !

Gains:
Shootout Intake: HP: 4.6 Torque: 2.1
Inventory Intake: HP: 4.5 Torque: 0.3
Besk one's Intake: HP: 5.0 Torque: 1.6

INJEN is actually a leader in the intake market now. They produce the most hp in most Honda applications that i'm aware of, if not all of them!

I'll be calling them if and when I get my xB!

Injen is good stuff. I prefer the SPFR, but you can't go wrong either way.

injens intake is only listed for the xB... won't it work on the xA also?

injens intake is only listed for the xB... won't it work on the xA also?
i think it hits the headlight. Jason has been working with Injen, they should have the xA intake done soon.

I believe the SPFR intake fits on both the xA and xB.

ya the SPFR works on both, there are a lot of xA's running it right now :)

Dumb question, but I come from a Nissan Z background.

Are there any "popchargers" for the Scions? For the Z's Jim Wolfe Tech makes some awesome popchargers, with great gains. The current one is even beating out most of the CAIs (Something like 9+ whp).

AMAZING! K&N Typhoon makes 8.4whp! They dynoed an automatic stock with 92whp and with the intake had 100+whp. AND I JUST BOUGHT THE INJEN! Oh well.

Check it out:

http://www.kandn.com/dynocharts/69-8605TP.jpg

now we need to figure which exhaust gives the best bang for the buck... get back to work Mark ! heh heh...

AMAZING! K&N Typhoon makes 8.4whp! They dynoed an automatic stock with 92whp and with the intake had 100+whp. AND I JUST BOUGHT THE INJEN! Oh well.

that is what k&n dyno'd at. we should have another shoot out with everyone.

I wonder how the Weapon-R Dragon intake fares against the AEM, Injen and others? On the Weapon-R site they quote a test that's been run against them and (according to them) they won.

I'm NO EXPERT, but I had the Weapon-R Dragon installed by the Scion dealer. I immediately noticed a significant improvement in acceleration, especially in the 4000-7000 RPM range.

I also talked to a Scion mechanic at the Dealer. He had a Ractive intake installed and he's happy with his.

Bottom Line - Everybody is proud of their Baby and "Intake Envy" (like the other "P.... envy") will abound. The results can probably be ingeniously interpreted to support whatever product the manufacturer is pushing.

Restate what was said in this thread once. Is 1-2 hp really going to make a difference between intakes on a 108 hp engine? No. It's all supplier preferance.

If you guys notice the K&N Dyno runs there done in 3rd gear!!!! As many of you know the way you get the real whp is doing the run in 4th gear. Not that the K&N doesnt make power I made 5 with it @the wheels.Its that its just a bit misleading for them to say they made 8hp extra when hey really just cheated the dyno. As well as cheated an unsuspecting consumer. But i give them props for putting out a high quality product. You arent going to find a more well rounded kit.. i ho[e thos helps!!
- ScionPimpN- OUT!!!!! :D

Every manual I've seen dyno at dyno days is always done in 3rd. Why should it be different for the xB?

ya your right im a dumb ___!!! :cry: oooohhh so this is why my parents told me to stay away from crack. My bad ScionPimpN OUT. PS I really dont know what I was thinking :?:

not trying to stir up the bees nest by bringing up an old thread, but i saw the sticky in the forum and just HAD to comment on this...

I worked at several performance shops and at one time worked for Dynojet. Air intake systems can never be properly dyno'd on a chassis dyno. The aftermarket industry has been doing this for years, well, because numbers sell. The problem is, that most dyno runs performed to test intakes are performed improperly and thus, do not give you real world numbers. For instance, i have seen many a tuner shops test intakes by leaving the hood up and putting a fan in front of the car. This is an improper method and will not yield you correct results. I am assuming this is what was done for this test.

While i appreciate someone taking the time to perform this test, the results are biased towards the short-ram intakes. If the hood is open with a fan blowing on them, obviously they will get more air than the AEM and SPFR CAIs. The flipside is that the true CAIs do make the air travel farther before it hits the throttle body, which robs power. Due to the test conditions, the true CAIs are not going to be getting as much air as the short rams that are located on top of the engine under the open hood. You obviously have some long-ram CAIs that did "well" on this test - but as i said, the results are undefined as you have an improper test condition.

Test Distortion #2: The anemic fan blowing on the front of the car does in NO WAY simulate real-driving aerodynamics or tunnel forces. the fan at most may put out a 15 mph breeze, but cannot simulate 50-80 mph winds that the vehicle would experience at freeway speeds. Physics teaches us that the velocity of forced air on an engine will increase effective combustion exponentially - it is not linear. What does this mean? That means the harder the force of air, the power you gain rises on a graph exponentially. This is why turbos are so effective on the combustion engine.

What does this mean to our dyno test? that the intakes will actually read more effectively when the vehicle is in motion. Dyno-wise, the readings could either be shy in readings or generous. Unfortunately, the dynamometer is unbiased to this and thus will not yield us a standard corrective formula.

Overall, what am i trying to say?

That all the data is (for the most part) flawed, and should not be your sole judgement on which brand to buy. It is safe to guess that most of these intakes will only add 2-3 true horsepower to your motor. And as someone else said, a gain this small will not be noticeable. If you do this modification in conjunction with other modifications, then you will notice more of a difference. Some modifications are complimentary to the overall performance of the vehicle.

My advice: get the intake which you think looks best in your engine bay, is CARB approved, doesn't ruffle the dealer's feathers, and is the easiest on the wallet. You won't tell the difference between your buddies' AEM and your Injen on the butt dyno. really.

Good Luck
-ABT-

K&N Typhoon Intake Rocks. end of discussion.

man this thread just won't die...hahahahhaha!


personally the 1.42whp SFPR intake rocks mah socks :P


but on a more serrious note:

we're still in the process of setting up a scion evo bbq / dyno day... that's gonna be the final word, i can't wait - gonna be a load of fun :) i haven't forgotten about it, just gotta get everyone on the same page :)

- Brian

Looks like a Injen intake for me!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

3-5 is noticable on a 100 hp engine? 5% is a lot... ??????

honestly, when i sat in brian's car.. it felt way more than
just 1hp(as the results yielded)..

but it was a defective intake(used in this dynorun)...

lets just keep it at just get what u want.
its no different than a civic or integra..
people just get what they want, and all the dyno results
range from 2-5 hp. just like any other intake for any other car..

but we CAN use some warfare.... its been so long :lol:

I am still disappointed no one dynoed the Blitz SUS intake...I feel left out :cry:

all of this info without the graphs is a little useless really..

Who knows, at LOW rpm, maybe the SPFR intake gives the best gains...which is where you would really feel it...

at what RPM are these numbers taken from???

Honestly, the graphs wouldn't help you much--because most if not all Dyno numbers are taken at MAX HP/MAX TQ Gain.

Do you really want to see an intake making .04 hp at 2krpm, and 1.4 at 5.5k?

The point is, that the numbers are the highest amount of hp/tq gained THROUGHOUT the powerband at ANY given point.

By your logic...the SPFR could make it's mighty 1.4hp at 3k, while the Injen/others make the 4hp at 5.5k...and you would still rock the SPFR????!
This is BS. You want to know the most, least, and average power made. Say one makes 1hp all the way down and then 4hp at peak. But another makes 4hp all around but only 1hp at peak. Which would you choose? I'd much rather have an itake with a higher average gain than one that only had a high peak gain.
Having done air filter comparisons for an old 300ZX, I can definately say that just showing peak numbers is about as useful as selling self-tanning lotion to people on the beach in the tropics.

ArinVolvo is right. Please show the dyno charts with lines.

Here is what I did with my test:
http://www.az-zbum.com/dyno.results.airfilter.na.shtml

Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead, but I just bought my xB and was wondering about the different intakes. Thank goodness for stickies, right?

this thread can't die... its tied to a sticky... but you are right I would've like to see the graphs... unfortunately this was way way long ago...

I'm still wondering what happened to SPFR... did they die out b/c of this shoot out? it sure sounds like it ...
if they did, it is kinda sad

honestly no matter who runs the dyno or how tightly its run, there will always be problems correlating it to real world performance.
But as people have said... can real world performance be THAT drastically different especially over only a few HP? shrug

There is no way to really declare a winner off a single dyno run... unless that many many sample runs are taken (and the intakes are constantly being switched). I don't think anyone is quite that enterprising just to figure out which intake has an advantage over one.

The other way way to go about this is actually to get as much data as possible from as many different dyno runs and to see if a pattern emerges. Given a large enough sample size, dyno differences should filter themselves out, and a winner could probably be declared using statistical analysis (but it will really require a lot of people to be posting data)

from a single trial runs, the more important thing to find from the graphs is probably where you are likely to see the gains and if you lose performance anywhere (or if you are gaining at all).

He did a good job with taking three runs and being consistent with the tests and timing. That's about all you can hope for.

I tried to get a CAI installed at the dealer when I bought my xA. :no: Was told no and that it would void my warrenty. Is this BS or what?

ummm tell them the RS series COMES WITH AEM!

ummm tell them the RS series COMES WITH AEM! :lalala: Thanks, I just took delivery of my xA. Now the story is that they (CAIs) have been modified due to emmisions bs and will be available around the 1st of the year. :eyebrow:

i think you guys should try running a fujita and a k&n just to be fair

not to mension all were cai except the injen that got the most power! :)

im confused what is spfr?

I just replaced the dealer AEM with the YDR (Injen clone) and I am pleased. The sound is very different and it feels more responsive. I recommend it.

I was woundering any chance to also test the Weapon-R and Fujita F5 Air Intake Systems?

I picked up and installed the Fujita F5, and it feels like a nice boost in power, and I love the way my box sounds!

Just like to say as a by-stander, that a lot of info has been shown here and even more opinions have been displayed.

I for one would like to see the entire graph from startup to top speed for each CAI. If those were posted I could not view them as most all graphs that were posted showed as a square with a red x in the middle or could not be viewed from the linked website. Please PM them to me if possible.

For my driving style/habit, I want performace enhancements throughout the whole Idle to 4krpm range. Most of my hwy usage is in the 3K rpm area with little or no change in acceleration. I don't race as it is an xB and I am not interested in racing, it is just not for me. Now I do like pushing the abilities of me and the xB from time to time for my own amusement ONLY. But that cost fuel mileage and happens very little. I am still driving a fully stock power train and stock wheels/tires/suspension. (YUP, Boring)

I am interested in fuel economy gains that can be had by adding a CAI. I can't see gaining 5mpg, but 1-2 mpg is realistic and has been posted by a couple members here. Also price is a MAJOR concern from my standpoint as well. While $150 is not a lot of money to hand over to gain a little MPG, $350 would take forever to recoop with such a small gain.

Mind you, this is a view from my perspective and is in no way meant to influence someone else. I want my xB to be more efficient and to not sink money into it that can never be recooped in a reasonable amount of time.

http://www.knfilters.com/news/news.aspx?ID=108 Testing on K&N's Dynojet 248 dynamometer revealed an average gain of 7 HP at the wheels! Performance results were consistent on multiple cars during repeated dyno runs, making K&N confident enough to offer guaranteed horsepower. Id like to see an individual test to see if the 7 at the wheels guarantee holds up....Im looking to buy one of these in a few weeks.