There's a rumor about the next Scion being shown at the NY auto show.

250 bhp coupe or sedan based on Avensis body. Basically a performance tC.

It's just a rumor but I can imagine Toyota engineers wanting to put down the Si. It's supposed to be Toyota's equivalence to the JDM current Integra Type-R which is the RSX-S.

Can you say 2AZ-GE?

This would make a much better comparison to the Si. We should wait until then to do a better stock vs stock comparison.

Ihope it's a real rumor.

 

I own an 05 WRX so I'll take this question. the 05 WRX is pretty much superior to the Si in all aspects. It costs a little more; I got my Premium for around $24K, about $3000 under sticker; but it's worth it. With the WRX, you get all-wheel drive, an awesome chassis, good handling, and the benefit of a turbo. I was tied between buying an RSX Type-S or the WRX. After doing a little research and a test drive I was certain the WRX was a better buy. And mod for mod, the WRX has much more potential since it's turboed. For a little under $2K in mods (turboback exhaust, uppipe, reflash), you can easily push 300hp AWD and be *slightly* faster than an STi or Evo.

The new 06 WRX is superior to the 05 in almost every way. Handling's been tweaked, there are a couple new standard features, and the new 2.5l engine. The new engine has eliminated turbo lag and improved peak and midrange torque. And despite the "claimed" increase in horsepower from 227 to 230, people have been dynoing the 06 at much closer to 260-270 horses. With the increased displacement, the "safe" engine potential for mods is probably up from about 330hp to somewhere around 350-400hp.

If you're looking for a good new performance car for under $25K the WRX is pretty much unmatched.

 

Very nice, thanks man I appriciate that feedback. That's what my buddy andrew keeps saying (He's a big wrx/sti junky)...

I guess i'll just have to test drive both, and see how I like each.

So the suby engine, how's that hold up over time? I know honda makes their engines to last, how do suby's hold up in the long run?

Thanks again

 

I haven't driven the 06 WRX but the changes sound pretty exciting as they should take care of most of the deficincies with the WRX, though hopefully they'll improve the shifter feel as well.

I can only comment on the pre-06 WRX and IMO while decently quick and with great potential, it always felt like an unfinished work. Turbo lag was noticible, shifter feel IMO was poor (compared to Honda/Mazda), and handling pretty much ran into understeer everywhere. Around a road course like streets of Willow, stock WRXs were good matches for stock RSX-S with summer tires, though they seemed to have to pull off for cool down laps in very hot weather. But the story of course is in modding- with comparatively little $$, you could get great hp gains. No Scion or Honda will compete with a WRX in terms of power gains available- just a fact of turbo vs non-turbo.

It's like anything else- for 3-4 K more than you want to spend, you can always get a nice jump in performance.

IMO as a daily driver, the Tc is a tough car to beat- it would be nice for the gas mileage to be a bit better, but overall probably the best bang for the buck in its class.

But as long as the Si isn't horribly marked up, for 4K more you get more hp, a superior suspension, LSD (YAY!), better brakes, better shifter- an all round nice step up in performance. The K-series engine gives great NA gains for bolt-on mods (intake, exhaust, Hondata) - 20 to 25whp for $1200. The Tc would need the supercharger, upgraded suspension and brakes, and an LSD.

Then again, for 3-4K more than the Si, you can get a WRX, and if it has the promised improvements for 06, will again be superior in pretty much every aspect and with some money for mods, will be amazing.

But then again, for 3-4K more, you can get a very lightly used Evo 8 which is a crazy step up again. The handling and brakes of this car are excellent- one of the most fun cars you can drive without going into a pure sports car.

Moral of the story- buy the best car you can without breaking the bank.

 

what ever happend to that si blue they had that almost sold me on it a few yrs back

 

Oh god here we go again "Si is better" "tc is better" "si will beat a tc" blah blah blah.

tc 16785 + 3700 for supercharger = 20,500 200 hp 185 lb torque

si 21,000 estimated 197 hp 139 lb of torque.

Uh it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this one out. The top of the line tC is gonna eat the top of the line civic for lunch. LOOK AT THE COMPARISONS.......

BOOYAAH

 

(tc) Whos your daddy?
|
|
|____F ___
| ( ( _ )----------(si) Ouch!
^---) |o|_| UU
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |

 

I ordered a 06 si, it should be here by mid December, I just can't wait.

 

I'm not even going to guess what that picture is about...

 

only think i like is the headlight and the gauges... everything else is ... blah

 

Like the Evo's engine, the EJ20 is a proven motor that's been in use for a long time. In stock trim it'll last a very long time, and I don't think I've ever even heard anyone having trouble with it without heavy/improper modding. Despite being a boxer, it's also relatively simple; there aren't a lot of technologies in it like VVT or anything like that. As I said though, the "safe" limit for mods on stock internals is around 320-330hp. Once you get that level you may want to start considering beefing the motor a little.

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say shifter feel is bad, but the optional short shifter is a hella good buy. Although I haven't seen both cars on the same road course, I have driven both, and I wouldn't say the Type-S is a match for the WRX. Handling is very similar, though the WRX is easier to control at the limit. The aforementioned boost lag can give a little headache on extremely slow (low second gear) corners. That being said, on a road course with any decent straightaway, the WRX should be able to pull ahead a bit.

Though the boost lag on 05 is a valid complaint, the handling is markedly improved by switching to decent tires. The stock all-weathers limit performance and I don't know if one would really consider this a "mod" since you have to change your tires anyway.

 

Well...there really isn't a dispute to which car is better...the Si is a step up from the tC so it's expected to be better

However, that is not the same in terms of bang for buck, so that's different.





And for the comment on the WRX being the best bang for buck under 25k, I'd still say the SRT-4 gives more for the money. And if you're including a car right at 25k, the Mustang GT is pretty nice as well

 

Well technically you'd also need new springs, shocks, sway bars, LSD, rotors, and pads on the Tc to bring the suspension up to snuff with the Si. So IMO from a value standpoint, the Si and Tc are equally good within their different price points.

You know, 25K has always been an awkward price point- for just a few K more, you can get very lightly used Evo 8s, STIs, and S2000s (if you're looking for a convertible).

But for under 25K I would say the WRX IMO is a better buy with its AWD. The SRT-4 is a great value and easily moddable, but running big power through FWD has never been my like.

 

Just to ruin it for you, the srt-4 is pos. Sure, it has power and looks okay. But its still a neon. I've known several people to complain 5k miles down the road that things are either broken for no reason, or the tranny starts freaking out for no reason. The neon is probably the least reliable car dodge has to offer.. Or at least one of many imo.

Wrx is nice, but i'd only drive the STI wagon. I love that thing.

I would never buy a used evo, sti, or anything like that. They are sports cars, 8 out of 10 are runned to hell im sure. So i'd rather get a new one, break it in correctly and know where its been. Thats the only bad thing about buying a used car like that. Otherwise, good point.

Cya

 

Really? Besides the outer shell..the SRT-4 shares almost nothing with the Neon that we all know of. And I'm sure it has its share of crappyness, but from what I've mostly heard from SRT forums and other owners is that their powertrain is quite tough; several owners have seen 60k+ miles with no problems. Interior panels....I can't say much about that, lol.

 

hmm.. I know of two that had problems way early on and ended up selling it for a different car. Maybe it was just bad luck? Who knows, i still wouldn't drive a srt anyway. *shrug*

Cya

 

Check out these SEMA Civics... I think they look hot.

http://www.autoweek.com/files/specia...1/pages/01.htm

http://www.autoweek.com/files/specia...2/pages/01.htm

 

For show cars they look great, but if they were street cars it would be pretty ridiculous looking in my opinion.

Thanks for sharing!
Cya

 

So, back on topic....haha, anybody else considering trading in their scion for a SI? I"ve got an xb, and I'M serously considering trading it.from 110hp to 200...nice jump.