djct_watt

I always thought of the xA as Toyota's version of the Mini. It's a sleeker version of the xB which is meant to appeal to those who want something a little zippier (even though it's just about the same).

I was looking at the Dahaitsu Mira Gino (Daihatsu is owned by Toyota) and thought it would make a kick butt successor to the xA (since we all know that it is going to be discontinued). I say, make it a tiny bit bigger, modernize the safety features and the interior, give it a 1.8L motor, and call it a day.

Instant Mini killer, and personally I would TOTALLY buy one. I think it's a pretty sweet looking car.

http://www.cars-directory.net/specs/...picture/10305/





http://www.cars-directory.net/pictur...1000_10306.jpg[img][/img]

ryukenden

hmmm...

InfideL

hm....no i like something with a more modern exterior design

evosky

classy interior. i can see someone in a tweed jacket and cap going through the countryside in that thing.

jct

yeah the seats do need to be in tweed

Milhamscion

That thing is hot. I would rock one of those.

THE_DON

Actually... I think a japanese Mini would sell in America...

I wouldn't rock one.... But it would sell.

-THE DON

Xenon_tC

Performance wise...BMW > Toyota. That thing wouldn't stand a chance against a Mini.

djct_watt

I beg to differ. . . BMW is not greater than Toyota. . .

It has to do with what they intend to build and what markets they cater to. If Toyota WANTED a performance car, they could build it. . . but it's a fact that Camry's sell more than 3 series. . . and that's the reason Toyota's market share (and profitability) blows BMW right out of the water. Toyota could make a BMW killer if it wanted to, but it chooses not to. Like it chooses not to offer a MT with the new IS350. It certainly could provide one if it wanted to.

And Toyota COULD easily build a mini killer if it wanted to. It's a question of how much profit you would be willing to give up as a company.

DarkH666

No, Toyota couldn't build a mini killer. If you think Toyota can easily best BMW, you're either insane, or such a blind fanboy that your logic and common sense is overridden by "OMG! OMG! TOYOTA IS BEST EVAR."

Oh, and for the record, the $14,130 price difference does figure into that. So please, try to compare to a car with another one that's ten thousand out of it's price range.

Oh yeah, because Toyota seems *so* fixed on making a high performance car, they have the..no, I'm sorry, they can't build one. They're too fixed on building "lolz, hybrid" and cheap plastic boxes that the word "performance" is lost.

Idiot.

dskinner

^^^ Why are you even on a Scion site, when you disapprove of them (ironically using an xB as your avator).

Anyway...

IF Toyota could convert that thing to sell in America. IF they could sell it at the current xA price. IF they took 100+ other steps such as this, it would definately steal some Mini sales. Certainly not the big supporters, but the thousands of people that love the Mini... Then see the price. Keep in mind too that this Toyota would make 130hp in the 1.8L, at <2400lb, whereas the base Mini at 116hp using the 1.6, weighs in at about 2500lb.

Facts are facts though, and the xD will most certainly sport a trendy appearence such as the xA.

I still think that Toyota should send over the Daihatsu Copen as a Scion. Just as the Mino Gino is your big "if". Mine is the Copen (maybe with a little more power than the 63hp motor it currently sports).

dskinner

[quote="DarkH666"]Ever sat in a base Cooper... Way more of a cheapy feeling than that of the "plastic box"

Speaking of Plastic Boxes, did you get the xB mixed with the Element?

djct_watt

It has nothing to do with being a "fanboy." It's simple economics and the application of "economies of scale" theory. Toyota's net worth, assents, revenue, profit, and market share completely dwarf BMW. If Toyota really wanted to, it could BUY BMW. But that wouldn't be profitable. A little far fetched? It could easily BUY the BMW engineering team too. There's no reason they can't build a full carbon fiber car with a V10 engine stuffed into a tiny frame and sell it for a HUGE loss. Toyota COULD do it, but it won't. Like a proper company, it's going to stick to what is profitable.

BMW has a nitch market, but on a wide scale, it is not a very profitable idea. Stick to niche markets, and BMW will own it very well (which is what does, is doing, and will do for the next bazillion years). Toyota is a large company with mass sales and profit to consider. Niche cars are usually not worth the investment. It's more profitable to sell a million Camry's than it is to sell a hundred thousand McLaren's, adding up all the associated costs of design, production, sales, and support. Of course an McLaren would be better than a Camry, but it's not the best business venture. I think you're too much of a BMW fanboy to see my point that I'm not ripping on BMW, just stating the blantantly obvious.

You can see $5000k used Civics pulling 12 sec 1/4mi times and over 1G lateral grip, when money is dumped into them. Toyota is worth more than you and your rich aunt Gracie (and all the money your family or mine will probably EVER accrue). They COULD build whatever they want. . . but they don't choose to.

Skunk

Actually, you're the one who's way off base here. Toyota could easily make a car to best the Mini. In fact just about any car company could. If you haven't noticed, there's nothing particularly amazing about the Mini Cooper. It's a small, somewhat sporty, lightweight FWD car. It achieves good handling as a by product of being rather light. Not a new concept.

The weak point of the Mini is the engine, imho. A 1.6l producing 118bhp is not particularly impressive. Even the new S model uses a turbo (the old ones were supercharged, check before you argue with me) to achieve 175bhp. That's a rather weak powerplant, and one that Toyota can (and has) outdone before. I'd shudder to think what Honda can do with a 1.6l these days if they wanted to.

You're truly foolish if you think any major car manufacturer couldn't beat Mini at it's own game if they wanted to.

dskinner

With cash baby, cold hard CASH

djct_watt

I'm glad other people here know how to read too! I thought I was alone in the world.
And you're absolutely correct about the powerplant. Just look at the Lotus Elise/Exige. And you know what, it was a much smarter business venture than producing the car in house. Lotus assumed all the risk, design, engineering costs, production, marketing, sales, and support costs. Toyota didn't have to spend a dime. And they get revenue for every Lotus Elise/Exige sold. That's a lot smarter, IMO. Think about it! They didn't have to do a damn thing and they get paid for it! Brilliance. Now if only somebody would pay to smell my farts, I'd be a millionaire.

djct_watt

Toyota needs to change their slogan.

Toyota Motor Corp: we could BUY BMW if we wanted to.

Tito_Cruz

^^^LOL

BadMINI

MINIs were never made to drag race. You can say what you want to say about the MINI's power output. Don't blame BMW because they didn't over exaggerate the power of the car. They gave it enough power to have fun in it. By the way, is 108 hp out of a 1.5 liter supposed to be impressive?

The current MINI is just the continuation from the Rover Minis. The MINI is a car with heritage, so while Scion might have a cult following, where were they in 1959?
This isn't meant to knock on Toyota, as my wife's pride and joy is her 2000 Toyota Celica. I just get tired of Scion owners trying to compare their cars to MINIs, when in fact, the MINI is in it's own league. What I do want Scion owners to understand is, the MINI has spawned a number of "wannabes". Why, I don't know? The MINI is not a perfect car. I believe the car was overengineered. Another thing is, I hate Hondas. I do have respect for them and Nissan for that matter. They are original. Their small cars are in no way trying to imitate the look of the MINI. Oh, and if BMW wanted to, they could have made the MINI to go faster, but why? On US 129, power means nothing.

dskinner

BadMINI is totally right. Scion definately has no where near the following that Mini has, and rightfully so. BMW hit a homerun in America with the new Cooper. It was so good in fact, that the all-new '07 that has been redone inside and out, looks nearly identical to the same one they began selling in '02. Anytime an auto manufacturer is able to do that (not because of budget but because of demand) in a society where the vehicles have to be refreshed every three years to keep interest high, they have done something right.