View Poll Results: Did you get a Scion No Hassel Car buying experience?
Voters: 99. You may not vote on this poll
Did you get a Scion No Hassle car buying experience?
03-09-2004, 01:47 AM
#21
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 233
My experience was excellent.
It took about 45 minutes total to decide on the car, get financed, call GEICO and get insured, sign paperwork and drive off the lot.
Zero pressure to buy accessories. I chose the XM radio antenna hookup and the rear bumper cover on my own..
The pure pricing scheme is not a scam. I've bought 4 new cars and helped 3 friends buy theirs and I know what negotiating a car deal is like and I'm very good at it. However, I won't go to the extreme of breaking the salesman's ***** over nickel and dime stuff like splitting $150 or demanding free floor mats.
IMO people who do that are just as much a-holes as the smarmy salesmen. The dealer and salesmen are entitled to make SOME money, OK? Don't be an ___. If you're smart and friendly but firm you can get a fair shake without splitting hairs and giving yourself an ulcer. You pay $15,16,17,000 for a car and you are going to spend 40 minutes arguing over whether the dealer should give you a car bra at his cost? I mean WTF? Get a life.
My experience with the Scion people was nothing less than mind blowing. There wasn't a minute of unpleasantness. No needless waiting. I had the full attention of both the sales manager and my salesman the whole time, no running off to keep another customer on the hook and leaving me sitting there. They were friendly and straightforward and filled out nearly everything on the paperwork for me, including my address from my license leaving me nothing to do but read and sign. The car was ready quickly and I went on my way. The salesman and manager walked with me outside to make sure everything was cool with the car, then the sales guy, who seemed as excited about my car as I was asked for the manager to take a picture of us both with the car!
Where else would you get that kind of treatment? It's almost incomprehensible. Compared to the usual way of doing business, this was a pleasure. I'd do it again tommorow.
I can't imagine Saturn did it this well and even if they came close, guess what. At the end of the deal, you're driving home a Saturn so you got screwed no matter what you paid. Haha
It took about 45 minutes total to decide on the car, get financed, call GEICO and get insured, sign paperwork and drive off the lot.
Zero pressure to buy accessories. I chose the XM radio antenna hookup and the rear bumper cover on my own..
The pure pricing scheme is not a scam. I've bought 4 new cars and helped 3 friends buy theirs and I know what negotiating a car deal is like and I'm very good at it. However, I won't go to the extreme of breaking the salesman's ***** over nickel and dime stuff like splitting $150 or demanding free floor mats.
IMO people who do that are just as much a-holes as the smarmy salesmen. The dealer and salesmen are entitled to make SOME money, OK? Don't be an ___. If you're smart and friendly but firm you can get a fair shake without splitting hairs and giving yourself an ulcer. You pay $15,16,17,000 for a car and you are going to spend 40 minutes arguing over whether the dealer should give you a car bra at his cost? I mean WTF? Get a life.
My experience with the Scion people was nothing less than mind blowing. There wasn't a minute of unpleasantness. No needless waiting. I had the full attention of both the sales manager and my salesman the whole time, no running off to keep another customer on the hook and leaving me sitting there. They were friendly and straightforward and filled out nearly everything on the paperwork for me, including my address from my license leaving me nothing to do but read and sign. The car was ready quickly and I went on my way. The salesman and manager walked with me outside to make sure everything was cool with the car, then the sales guy, who seemed as excited about my car as I was asked for the manager to take a picture of us both with the car!
Where else would you get that kind of treatment? It's almost incomprehensible. Compared to the usual way of doing business, this was a pleasure. I'd do it again tommorow.
I can't imagine Saturn did it this well and even if they came close, guess what. At the end of the deal, you're driving home a Saturn so you got screwed no matter what you paid. Haha
03-09-2004, 03:25 AM
#22
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 9
i didn't get hassled by the Scion guy.... now the toyota guy trying to tell me that an echo was just as good or better than an xB???? whatever... In my unique experience, i bought a car in San Diego but i was actually in Norfolk when the contract went down.. hmmmm.... sounds like no hassle to me... matter fact i'm taking my orange box and going home... oh crap i'm still in VA.....AGHHH!!!!!!
03-09-2004, 08:34 PM
#23
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Quality Scion (FL)
Posts: 240
Re: forgot: HOLDBACK IS HIDDEN.
Originally Posted by George
Originally Posted by qualityscion
Originally Posted by bradinsocal
You won't see Holdback on any invoice... it is a perk paid to the dealer by corporate directly... The dealer gets the money, just not from the buyer. Corporate gets it from their profit of the car.
The last car I negotiated, a Mercury Sable (for my Dad, not for me!), didn't have holdback listed on the invoice, but the dealer readily acknowledged it. After all, he was selling the car for below the invoice price and he had to make his money from somewhere!
Originally Posted by qualityscion
You seem to know everything. 
For your information on every invoice that the dealership gets from the manufacture, be it a Ford, Chevy, Toyota, Honda, etc, right on the invoice it shows the hold back on there. It will be designated with abbreviations or just state holdback. So far I have been really impressed with your knowledge of the auto industry, most of it has come from books of people with the same vast knowledge you have. I am about the same age as you. I have bought alot of cars since 15 years old when I paid cash for a new z28 camaro. I think you have only what you have read and the cars that you bought for knowledge which is pretty small in comparision to having worked on both sides of the desk. 
For your information on every invoice that the dealership gets from the manufacture, be it a Ford, Chevy, Toyota, Honda, etc, right on the invoice it shows the hold back on there. It will be designated with abbreviations or just state holdback. So far I have been really impressed with your knowledge of the auto industry, most of it has come from books of people with the same vast knowledge you have. I am about the same age as you. I have bought alot of cars since 15 years old when I paid cash for a new z28 camaro. I think you have only what you have read and the cars that you bought for knowledge which is pretty small in comparision to having worked on both sides of the desk. George,
You are completely right! That is one of the sad things of this profession. I have seen alot of people come in go in the auto industry. Alot of sales people come and go without really trying to learn their product and their profession, that brings up where customers feel like they are being lied to, etc. These sale people( not professionals) would take the time to really learn the products and the business. If sales people learned the business they can really help people with good financial advice and product information. When you do that the sales career can be really fun and rewarding. This goes for any sales person no matter what you sell. :D
03-12-2004, 09:02 AM
#24
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Team N.V.S.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Los Banos, CA
Posts: 398
sales people lie to sell....just like the sunroof that only takes a day to put in....i asked him how long it would take....he said only a day...after i paid for the car i went to make an appointment to have it done....3 days minimum.....dont trust salesmen....they lie
i was also told the price wasnt being haggled cause its a new production model and toyota is losing money on them....toyota town of stockton...dont go there
i was also told the price wasnt being haggled cause its a new production model and toyota is losing money on them....toyota town of stockton...dont go there
03-16-2004, 06:14 PM
#25
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Team ScioNRG
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: The Moderator Castle
Posts: 1,218
My experience was great, granted I allready knew what I wanted and what I was going to get but the experience was great. Went to New Rochelle Scion in NY and the sales guy was really helpful. As someone said, he was actually as excited as I was to get the car. Went into the dealer at 10AM drove out with my XB at 1:30.
My sales guy actually showed me his XB and let me borrow it while mine was getting cleaned and a few accesories that were extra were removed.
Once I got my car, he called me later that night to see if everything was fine and how I was dealing with all the attention I was getting from my box.. :D
I went back this past saturday to get my spoiler and fog lights installed and once again everyone was helpful and very friendly. A few guys up here in the Tri-State (NY-NJ-CT) area are trying to get a club together, told my sales guy and he was thrilled about it. We went spoke with the GM and he said that any time we want to meet in the dealer he would close the parking lot at night, provide the food, drinks, music and some freebes.....How can you beat that?
Overall my experience was great and I give Scion three thumbs up!
My sales guy actually showed me his XB and let me borrow it while mine was getting cleaned and a few accesories that were extra were removed.
Once I got my car, he called me later that night to see if everything was fine and how I was dealing with all the attention I was getting from my box.. :D
I went back this past saturday to get my spoiler and fog lights installed and once again everyone was helpful and very friendly. A few guys up here in the Tri-State (NY-NJ-CT) area are trying to get a club together, told my sales guy and he was thrilled about it. We went spoke with the GM and he said that any time we want to meet in the dealer he would close the parking lot at night, provide the food, drinks, music and some freebes.....How can you beat that?
Overall my experience was great and I give Scion three thumbs up!
03-16-2004, 08:00 PM
#26
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Springfield Scion (VA)
Posts: 526
What an absolutely fascinating discussion. I've been in the car business for over 10 years and have been playing at Edmunds Town Hall for nearly 5 years and I don't recall ever witnessing this level of distrust. That's sad to me because most Scion dealers really are trying to do this whole thing right.
1. The is no holdback on the Scion. Invoice is really the actual gross cost of the vehicle. Don't get me started on the gross cost versus net cost becuase you'll never get me to shut up.
2. There currently are no "factory to dealer incentives." This is a term that really means a second holdback and manufactureres put it on cars that are not selling fast.
3. There sure as hell shouldn't be any negotiations. Even if you have a trade, this is true. Think about it for a moment, if they can mysteriously add money to your car, what makes you think they can't add a few dollars more later and shaft the used car department and you over the value? Dealers are just as likely to "under allow" as they are to "overallow" on a trade.
4. The Scion is a perfect opportunity for the consumer to do what I have always argued they should be doing in the first place: Shop for the right dealer and not the price. Because most dealership's pure price is the MSRP (at least it is in my area), find a dealer that does things your way. You should be able to enjoy buying a car. You are not getting a root canal and you shouldn't dread car buying. Shop for the dealer that understands how you want to be treated.
1. The is no holdback on the Scion. Invoice is really the actual gross cost of the vehicle. Don't get me started on the gross cost versus net cost becuase you'll never get me to shut up.
2. There currently are no "factory to dealer incentives." This is a term that really means a second holdback and manufactureres put it on cars that are not selling fast.
3. There sure as hell shouldn't be any negotiations. Even if you have a trade, this is true. Think about it for a moment, if they can mysteriously add money to your car, what makes you think they can't add a few dollars more later and shaft the used car department and you over the value? Dealers are just as likely to "under allow" as they are to "overallow" on a trade.
4. The Scion is a perfect opportunity for the consumer to do what I have always argued they should be doing in the first place: Shop for the right dealer and not the price. Because most dealership's pure price is the MSRP (at least it is in my area), find a dealer that does things your way. You should be able to enjoy buying a car. You are not getting a root canal and you shouldn't dread car buying. Shop for the dealer that understands how you want to be treated.
03-16-2004, 08:36 PM
#28
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: North Los Angeles County
Posts: 2,627
Originally Posted by cliffy1
What an absolutely fascinating discussion. I've been in the car business for over 10 years and have been playing at Edmunds Town Hall for nearly 5 years and I don't recall ever witnessing this level of distrust. That's sad to me because most Scion dealers really are trying to do this whole thing right.
1. The is no holdback on the Scion. Invoice is really the actual gross cost of the vehicle. Don't get me started on the gross cost versus net cost becuase you'll never get me to shut up.
1. The is no holdback on the Scion. Invoice is really the actual gross cost of the vehicle. Don't get me started on the gross cost versus net cost becuase you'll never get me to shut up.
I doubt that they would want to have incorrect information on their site and would not hesitate to correct it if a longtime Edmunds Town Hall member brought the error to their attention.
In the meantime, I believe that Edmunds is a more impartial source than a dealer for this sort of information.
03-16-2004, 09:19 PM
#30
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Team ScioNRG
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 37
I had a good experience here in New Jersey. I walked in told him that I wanted the RS 1.0 with Fog lights and he ordered it. No prob. I did want floor mats and the rear bumper applique but decided to just get them after I saved a few bucks for the car. The dealership I went to is pretty cool first 3 oil changes free then every other service is free not a bad deal ( I'll probably still change my own oil though) I asked him if he could though in the floor mats and he said he could loose his dealership over it. I didn't press the issue, wherther I believe him ot not is another story. All in all a pretty nice guy that made me feel pretty good about buying a car from his dealership.
I hope this snow ends before my lava gets here. Oh well, it's a good excuse for having the stock wheels on the car ( Those are my winter wheels, heh)
I hope this snow ends before my lava gets here. Oh well, it's a good excuse for having the stock wheels on the car ( Those are my winter wheels, heh)
03-16-2004, 10:04 PM
#31
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Scion Evolution
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: My-Am-Eeeeee
Posts: 501
My dealer went out of his way to take options off a fully loaded Scion xB RS 1.0 a day after it was already allocated to the dealer loaded.
He said it would be difficult, but he got it done.
So now I wait for the car to get released from port..
these next few days will seem like months...
He said it would be difficult, but he got it done.
So now I wait for the car to get released from port..
these next few days will seem like months...
03-17-2004, 01:20 PM
#32
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Springfield Scion (VA)
Posts: 526
Originally Posted by George
Originally Posted by cliffy1
What an absolutely fascinating discussion. I've been in the car business for over 10 years and have been playing at Edmunds Town Hall for nearly 5 years and I don't recall ever witnessing this level of distrust. That's sad to me because most Scion dealers really are trying to do this whole thing right.
1. The is no holdback on the Scion. Invoice is really the actual gross cost of the vehicle. Don't get me started on the gross cost versus net cost becuase you'll never get me to shut up.
1. The is no holdback on the Scion. Invoice is really the actual gross cost of the vehicle. Don't get me started on the gross cost versus net cost becuase you'll never get me to shut up.
I doubt that they would want to have incorrect information on their site and would not hesitate to correct it if a longtime Edmunds Town Hall member brought the error to their attention.
In the meantime, I believe that Edmunds is a more impartial source than a dealer for this sort of information.
For the record, Edmunds is not infallible. They still claim the V6 Camry requires premium unleaded fuel. That has never been true but they post that year after year.
03-17-2004, 02:41 PM
#34
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: North Los Angeles County
Posts: 2,627
Originally Posted by cliffy1
Not trying to be a jerk here, but could you give me a link to that information? I've been searching through Edmund's pricing info on the Scion and I don't see any mention of holdback.
Go to "Tips and Advice" on the Edmunds site and type "holdback" into the search box.
Or, go to Google and search on the word "holdback", The article is question is the top item.
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/incent...ack/index.html
03-17-2004, 03:07 PM
#35
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Boston
Posts: 379
I went to three dealerships:
First one told me 'no hassle price' and did not have any 5-speeds in stock
Dealer #2 told me 'no hassle' and offered me only $500 for my car (which is too much already IMHO) but they dicked me around a little with things like the 19" TRD's saying they were under warrenty and the fact they wanted $350 to install them ____ed me off and again no 5-speeds for about 2-3 weeks he tells me.
Dealer #3 was very friendly and again was given the 'no hassle' BS BUT for some reason unknowing to anyone they offered me $2200 for my POS car and the kid was very laxed as me getting more options and was more than willing to let me leave with a bone stock xB.
While I do love to play the numbers game with crooked car salesman and always have I must say my Scion purchase was the LEAST stressful car sale I have EVER made, I still think there is some wiggle room in there somewhere but honestly at the price after my trade with the bumper applet, floor mats and cargo cover (12k and some change) so I am very happy with my overall experience.
What I think may end up happening is that in a few years they prices may go up and there may be a bit more wiggle room in the price as I am still not sure if Scion just beat this 'no hassle' price thing into the dealerships heads and it true or if it is just a new technique.
If you think about it the Scion is 'marketed' for the 35< crowd SO that means all these young people are getting familiar with the 'no hassle' policy they will be more custom to it when buying cars in the future as I know my dad is 'old school' and always nickel and dimes over everything (don't blame him) including floor mats and everything else and the 'no hassle' thing did not fly by him.
Either way it was a nice experience I would say 9/10
First one told me 'no hassle price' and did not have any 5-speeds in stock
Dealer #2 told me 'no hassle' and offered me only $500 for my car (which is too much already IMHO) but they dicked me around a little with things like the 19" TRD's saying they were under warrenty and the fact they wanted $350 to install them ____ed me off and again no 5-speeds for about 2-3 weeks he tells me.
Dealer #3 was very friendly and again was given the 'no hassle' BS BUT for some reason unknowing to anyone they offered me $2200 for my POS car and the kid was very laxed as me getting more options and was more than willing to let me leave with a bone stock xB.
While I do love to play the numbers game with crooked car salesman and always have I must say my Scion purchase was the LEAST stressful car sale I have EVER made, I still think there is some wiggle room in there somewhere but honestly at the price after my trade with the bumper applet, floor mats and cargo cover (12k and some change) so I am very happy with my overall experience.
What I think may end up happening is that in a few years they prices may go up and there may be a bit more wiggle room in the price as I am still not sure if Scion just beat this 'no hassle' price thing into the dealerships heads and it true or if it is just a new technique.
If you think about it the Scion is 'marketed' for the 35< crowd SO that means all these young people are getting familiar with the 'no hassle' policy they will be more custom to it when buying cars in the future as I know my dad is 'old school' and always nickel and dimes over everything (don't blame him) including floor mats and everything else and the 'no hassle' thing did not fly by him.
Either way it was a nice experience I would say 9/10
03-17-2004, 05:54 PM
#36
Senior Member
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Springfield Scion (VA)
Posts: 526
Originally Posted by George
Two ways to find it.
Go to "Tips and Advice" on the Edmunds site and type "holdback" into the search box.
Or, go to Google and search on the word "holdback", The article is question is the top item.
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/incent...ack/index.html
Its things like this that really frustrate me. Toyota is trying hard to create a consumer friendly process and many dealerships are following suit and trying to shed the image we've had for decades. Something like Edmund's making an error like this does nothing but set that back and create distrust.
Thanks for bringing that to my attention.
04-08-2004, 06:07 AM
#37
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Right Scion (AZ)
Posts: 2
Edmunds is a great information source- but it is hardly gospel. If you go to all of the sites (kbb, edmunds, inv dealers, consmr rpts) you will get diff info from each.
for the last time THERE IS NO HOLDBACK OR KICKBACKS ON SCIONS
Holdback is on every MANUFACTURER invoice, If I showed a paper that I said was the manuf invoice, and it wasn't- I'd have some lawsuits to deal with.
finally something good for the customer comes along, and you guys don't see it- scion wants to change that old car buying experience for good- and if it works- toyota will eventually follow, heck everyone will. Dealers are freaking out because of the internet- because now you have to earn business respectively. I am an internet manager for a toyota dealer, there are four of us, and we sell 80+ cars every month- no hassle, haggle, pressure - easy and HONEST. Suprisingly people don't mind paying for eceptional service and experience. I also will not work with customers like the 40 yr old above that says everything is neg, they can go give someone else brain damage- and if 10+ hours of your time is worth a couple $$$- more power to you.
I understand the car salesman stereotype- totally. But now there are a few of us out there trying to make it different- better. I respect every customer unless they give me a reason not to- and I expect the same in return.
sorry for the lenth guys- had to vent.
for the last time THERE IS NO HOLDBACK OR KICKBACKS ON SCIONS
Holdback is on every MANUFACTURER invoice, If I showed a paper that I said was the manuf invoice, and it wasn't- I'd have some lawsuits to deal with.
finally something good for the customer comes along, and you guys don't see it- scion wants to change that old car buying experience for good- and if it works- toyota will eventually follow, heck everyone will. Dealers are freaking out because of the internet- because now you have to earn business respectively. I am an internet manager for a toyota dealer, there are four of us, and we sell 80+ cars every month- no hassle, haggle, pressure - easy and HONEST. Suprisingly people don't mind paying for eceptional service and experience. I also will not work with customers like the 40 yr old above that says everything is neg, they can go give someone else brain damage- and if 10+ hours of your time is worth a couple $$$- more power to you.
I understand the car salesman stereotype- totally. But now there are a few of us out there trying to make it different- better. I respect every customer unless they give me a reason not to- and I expect the same in return.
sorry for the lenth guys- had to vent.
04-08-2004, 01:28 PM
#39
Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: New Country Scion (NY)
Posts: 32
Re: KoonsAnnapolisScion: your car should come with a FULL TA
I apologize in advance if I offend anyone here, however I have to add my 2 cents here...
as a salesperson (Scion Manager, Toyota sales, Inventory Manager here) I am so glad Scion has the Pure Price strategy... I'm tired of customers coming in and negotiating a deal down to $50 over invoice and then expecting to have $500 worth of stuff included... with Pure Price everything is out in the open (transparent)...if you want it, buy it... if you don't, that's your choice... this streamlines the whole process and makes it easier for everyone involved...
Brad,
How many other vehicles have you purchased where you DIDN'T get a full tank of gas on delivery? All Toyotas and Scions are required (by Toyota and Scion corporate) to be delivered with a full tank of gas... $6 for a full tank of gas?? who got boned? let's see... average price of gas here in NY $1.95 X 11 gallons = $21.45... hmmm... that's $15.45 free...
Unlike with other vehicles (Toyotas, etc) the Scions don't have a holdback built into the invoice... they may never have holdback, who knows... however, in all reality you did NOT get one over on the dealer, and you did NOT get your vehicle at $100 over invoice... perhaps the dealer checked the real money value of your car (what they could purchase a similar car for at an auction) and found that it was worth more than they originally thought... if they lose money on your car, that's the way the cookie crumbles (they might even MAKE money on your car...how sweet is that now??) :o
and as you stated in your earlier post, if you really didn't want the spoiler you would have waited for a vehicle to come in without one... I agree, you can do "better" if you have a trade, however the only way you can do "better" is by having a trade that is a) worth more than what you owe, or b) paid off with no closeout... that way the full trade value is taken off of the price of the Scion
Sorry for the rant... I'm done...
as a salesperson (Scion Manager, Toyota sales, Inventory Manager here) I am so glad Scion has the Pure Price strategy... I'm tired of customers coming in and negotiating a deal down to $50 over invoice and then expecting to have $500 worth of stuff included... with Pure Price everything is out in the open (transparent)...if you want it, buy it... if you don't, that's your choice... this streamlines the whole process and makes it easier for everyone involved...
Originally Posted by bradinsocal
Damn, they boned you for $6!
Also, in reply to the other posts... I did not know if there was a holdback, or not. I suspected NOT. That makes my $100 over invoice deal that much more sweet! To those of you that will say that the dealer wouldn't have sold it at this margin, please understand: if they are stupid when assigninging a value to your trade, they won't know they are losing $ until the deal is done and gone. ~hehe
Also, in reply to the other posts... I did not know if there was a holdback, or not. I suspected NOT. That makes my $100 over invoice deal that much more sweet! To those of you that will say that the dealer wouldn't have sold it at this margin, please understand: if they are stupid when assigninging a value to your trade, they won't know they are losing $ until the deal is done and gone. ~hehe
How many other vehicles have you purchased where you DIDN'T get a full tank of gas on delivery? All Toyotas and Scions are required (by Toyota and Scion corporate) to be delivered with a full tank of gas... $6 for a full tank of gas?? who got boned? let's see... average price of gas here in NY $1.95 X 11 gallons = $21.45... hmmm... that's $15.45 free...
Unlike with other vehicles (Toyotas, etc) the Scions don't have a holdback built into the invoice... they may never have holdback, who knows... however, in all reality you did NOT get one over on the dealer, and you did NOT get your vehicle at $100 over invoice... perhaps the dealer checked the real money value of your car (what they could purchase a similar car for at an auction) and found that it was worth more than they originally thought... if they lose money on your car, that's the way the cookie crumbles (they might even MAKE money on your car...how sweet is that now??) :o
and as you stated in your earlier post, if you really didn't want the spoiler you would have waited for a vehicle to come in without one... I agree, you can do "better" if you have a trade, however the only way you can do "better" is by having a trade that is a) worth more than what you owe, or b) paid off with no closeout... that way the full trade value is taken off of the price of the Scion
Sorry for the rant... I'm done...