msu-dawg

So I've decided to buy an xB. I want rS4.0 (Torched Penny paint). I also must have cruise control and the ipod stereo. I looked at one very close to me listed at $19013 with options but didn't get to point of discussing trade in detail (it was late in day a few days ago). Car had bazooka tube as option (a $450 cost) that I didn't want (read: wife didn't want) so I searched around. Found same car less bazooka and the door sill enhancements for $18445 at a dealership about 1 hour drive away. Called them late today and said I want to buy your car if we can make trade-in work, it'll be close to closing time when I get there, can we make this work or should I call tomorrow? Yes, head this way sales guy says, and begins getting relevant info by phone.

We get there and discuss specifics of wheel upgrade I wanted to add while my trade is being looked at. Comes back with offer on trade of $10K. Now I realize that people have to make a living and I can't get as much for truck on trade as if I decide to just sell it outright but their number was lower than edmunds, KBB, and NADA on trade ($10,106, $11,565, and $12,275, respectively). So of course I said, no dice and was asked what I wanted. Since they went way low I figure the appropriate response is go high so I told them $12,500 (I had room for negotiation). Salesman speaks with sales manager briefly and then says sorry, $10K is best they can do. So I thank them for their time and wasting mine to drive the hour over to get insulted.

A slight bit of further discussion is had and I'm told by the salesman that because of Scion's pure price model, they're not allowed to negotiate on trade-in offers. He says that ONCE THEY PUT AN OFFER ON PAPER (his was a little scrap of paper) THAT THEY CAN'T CHANGE IT. The salesman seemed to be sympathetic to the fact they were trying to screw me on trade but said nothing he could do.

So we left as they were turning off lights and locking gate.

Has anyone else heard of this "once the number is on paper we can't change" garbage? Any other stories about how trade-in have gone? I want their car but if selling outright I'd list truck for $14 and sell for no less than $13 and that's still a lot less than the used car lots are asking for them here (try $17K to $20K). And those are real numbers based on as equipped, good condition (I don't pretend to think my truck is worthy of an 'EXCELLENT' rating). I'm not giving them on order of $2K they don't deserve.

I hope they don't call back today with an offer to haggle on trade price cause my wife will absolutely go off if they do. She was a little peeved and disappointed last night when we left without making deal.

bc

FYI - edmunds, KBB, and NADA do not buy cars. NADA is the worst guide you can look at, it is used by dealers to make sure they get a good loan value aka the Blue Book.

Again, none of these sites buy or sell cars, so they have no reprecautions when their numbers are off. In general, edmunds & KBB provide a quote based on national figures. If you were to put 400,000 miles in place of your cars actual milage you would also see that they do not adjust for high mileage properly.

The dealer you worked with did the right thing. Under 'Pure Pricing' they will not change their numbers. Otherwise, people would post on websites about it and they would be investigated by SCION - thus losing allocation.

ryno379

That is correct. Those price guides are only guides. They do not buy or sell cars. As for pure pricing, they are playing by the book. The only way they can offer more money is if they find a 3rd party (wholesaler) to buy the car from them for more money. And yes, it's funny how KBB goes stupid once miles are over 100,00.

Ryan

msu-dawg

I still don't see the connection between the pure price thing and trade-in offers / negotiations. I see it as two seperate transactions- I walk in knowing the price of the car and that they don't have a tremendous profit built into the MSRP and they know that they don't have to haggle- that's one transaction. But as far as my trade goes, that's another transaction. When I walk into the dealership we each have different opinions as to what my trade is worth. There is no predetermined value or price and thus they have free reign to build whatever amount of profit into my trade that they think they can get me to accept. The less I accept for the trade the more money they make.

That having been said, I was happy to get confirmation from another dealer (without prompting) that this policy exists. As much as I disagree with the policy, I am glad that the first dealer wasn't blowing smoke.

I am now an xB owner and in the end I did getting more from my trade- as much as I wanted- no. A significant more than the first dealer offered- yes. And the 2nd was much more pleasant to work with!

bc

msu-dawg,

Glad to hear you worked things out.

You have found the part of the process that does not make sense sometimes. That is, you can walk into another dealer, show them the offer you did not like, and allow them to offer more. The first dealer may have been light on their offer, or the second dealer just offered more than they normally would, to get the deal.

The appraisal process is totally independent, there are no set numbers. That what makes companies like CARMAX so neat, they will buy your car outright for the amount offered. My company operates the same way. Maybe we can be a little off, and that is something we can re-evaluate. But, because we make an 'offer to purchase' we never go low, we offer a fair value up front. We can be off a few hundered dollars, anyone can. But if it was more than that, then someone made a mistake one way or another in most cases.

ryno379

The key phrase there is "fair value up front". Pure price is there to keep the dealer honest. They can't low ball you because they don't get a second chance to give the "predetermined real value". The dealer has to give you the "best deal" up front. The trade is only worth what someone is willing to pay, and that can vary from person to person.

Ryan

kenr74

"Pure Price" is actually PURE BS! I went in with a trade and they low balled me. Everytime I tried to leave their offer got higher and higher to the point that it was more than the car was worth. So they were either paying way to much for the car or they were taking some off of their "Pure Price" Either way they had already ____ed me off enough that I sold the car myself and bought from another dealer.

ryno379

Unfortunately, not everyone plays by the rules. I would have called Scion to report your negative experience.

torqueTc

iTrader: (11)

Well I got taken care of personally.. i had a 89 dodge aires K car that had a blown head gasket (but ran) and they accepted it and knocked off $500... (that car was my trade in bait) I still have 3 other cars... but really, $500 for a car almost 20 years old, that ran like ____ was pretty decent. I worked the whole deal over the phone. At the dealership, no one tried to jerk me around when I got in either.

bc

I hope you created a post here about this bad experience?

Do not judge an entire process by one bad seed. And as was suggested, unless customers report these violations, Scion corporate can not do anything to fix the problem areas.

ryno379

That is correct.

Madzozs

Also remember that when you try to trade-in, they normally use the Galves system. Galves is an auction listing price. Even if they end up selling your car on the lot, they will give you auction price. Thats how they make the money.