I have been researching a couple of the TC forums on the net for sometime now, and I came across www.yoursciontc.com. The one thing that really caught my eye was the fact that they, in a way, do not like ZPI products. One example can be the turbo kits. Can anyone shed some light on this issue? I have no clue why they say what they say, but I get confused when I read what they say about the turbo kits and what you guys have to say about them. Thanks for any info.

 

They're just not sure of ZPI's quality.

YSTC folks, the ones that talk about engines and tuning, are extra careful and fairly cynical. ZPI had a few times that they were not 100% clear with us and running a turbo kit without engine management is red flag for them.

Hell, YSTC guys barely even trust Turbonetics or GReddy.

They're also at the forefront of the anti-solid lightweight pulley movement.

 

Just a little FYI also, ZPI isn't the only turbo company that has a kit that does NOT use any engine management. Greddy's turbokit is coming without management, and there are a few other 1-off kits on some peoples cars without any management. ZPI has a kit that does come with management, which is the Stage 1. On a side note: There are no other companies out right now that are making 12sec 1/4 passes in Turboed tC's other than ZPI. Does that help a little?


I haven't been over to YSTC.com that much, but from other people that have, the impression I get is that they are a bunch of "teeny-boppers" who act like they know everything there is about the tC, and that they have 20+ years in the automotive industry. Maybe you should do some research on SL, to get the valuable information.

 

Yea but I talked to Greddy at SEMA and asked them if their display car was driveable, they said no. You need the management.

 

I don't have all the info. on Greddy's kit. I just know that it's not being included in the kit. And not to mention the countless other tC's running around on the stock ECU.


Then again, just get the ZPI Stage 1....Fastest tC's on the market..

 

yah i guess so. . . their tc is making 12 sec passes so they must be doing something right!!!! thanks for the input guys. I think I will stay here for the most part.

 

Dr ISO, and Lo_BUX post over there a whole bunch, and I dont think that they are are "teeny boppers".
The thing is, there are really smart people, and really retarded people on both of the forums. You need to spend some time on each, to figure out which guys are the ones to listen to.

From my experience here is a short list of who knows their sh*t...

ScionDad
Engifineer
Oldman (dont know if he is still on here, or has moved on)
Thomas
lo bux racer
RAAMAudio (weight managment expert)
Scott17
Instigator(brakes expert)

....and others that just havnt come to mind right now. Im sure others can add to this list.

 

You should do some of your own research. The main guy at YSTC is lo_bux_racer. He actually has worked on cars and motorcycles for over 25 years. He doesn't know everything about the tC but knows damn near everything there is to know about anything else in life.. For a sales engineer, he knows a lot about medical treatments, classical text, classical languages, physical and mechanical engineering, chemistry, and host of other completely random things. RAAMaudio also hangs out there a lot. He hangs out here a lot too so you should know him. There are some other guys who work with performance tuning companies, notably, APR, the company making performance chips for a quick 40 some hp on VWs and 1000 hp VW R32s and whatnot. In all, they're not a bunch of teeny boppers.

Also, YSTC generally doesn't like the GReddy kit either. It looks pretty but doesn't overcome the obstacles of that the 2AZ brings up. And like I said, a lot of them don't trust Turbonetics either. There's no bias that singles out ZPI.

They do like Sound Performance.

Most of the folks at YSTC are pretty old, although, there is one 15 yr old kid. All the teeny-boppers are over at Scion-Tech.


BTW, it's easy to hit 12 seconds in the 1/4 mile. It's hard to do so again and again while still remaining easily streetable. So props to ZPI for their pretty well mannered but beastly stage 1 kit. Like I said, there's no specific bias against ZPI but rather a general cynicism to cover all aftermarket turbos. YSTC is probably the most automotively conservative tC forum right now. They're waiting for a ZPI stage 0 and a lightened pulley tC to hit over 100k miles to pass final judgement.

In my experience, there are far more intelligent threads per capita at YSTC than there are at SL.

 

AGREED

 

YSTC likes SP because they love dem supras!
They also like their own Turbo Kits that they are/where developing.

 

maybe you should add kungpaosamuraiii to your list, hes always been all round pretty knowledgeable

 

Clearly, I'm chopped liver, eh?

-Ed

 

I didn't say EVERYBODY was a "teeny-bopper Know it all"? I said some other people were saying that.


FYI: You probably will NEVER see a ZPI Stage 0 hit 100k miles. Heck man, I bet you will never see it hit more than 20k miles. Wanna know why? Cause of our GREED for MORE HP. The minute you upgrade something, it's no longer a Stage 0 imo.

Also, about the intelligent threads here vs. there, you also have to take into account how BIG each site is. I've been over to YSTC, and it dosen't seem they have that many memebers(well, compared to SL that is).

 

Just because a car hits 12s doesnt mean it is put together worth a damn. I could go out and buy some parts and make the tC run ridiculous numbers if I didnt care about longevity. Dont get me wrong, I am not saying ZPI is not building right, but the comment that they are pushing 12s so they must be doing something right is not real accurate when it comes to not destroying a car.

I cant say one way or another about thier builds since I havent looked into one closely. So far my priorities are elsewhere when it comes to spending large chunks of money right now (ring, house, another car purchase, etc ) so I havent begun getting into the motor on it yet.

As far as getting the impression of teeny boppers that think they know everything, I get that impression of this site more an more every day. Everytime someone comes on putting thier trust in soft **** (cause the pics of girls are about the only value in them) mags that slap every bolt on and nasty body kit on a car and call it good it shows even more. People come on posting up thier "knowledge of physics" (take a look at some of the peoples explanation of what torque and horsepower are for one example) that are as far from scientific proof it hurts to read. Then the posts get locked and many go away with horrible mis-information.

Now, before anyone takes offense, this occurs on ALL forums. But when you look at a place that is very skeptical of parts, they are most likely that way out of REAL experience, not something they read out of a magazine. A lot of those guys over there have either been building cars for quite some time or have been working on them for quite some time, so they actually know how the whole system works. When you see a group of people that just say "well, they built it so it must be great!" and slap it right on thier car they are most likely in-experienced. People forget, these magazines and many shops are either building the car for show, advertising or racing only. So they dont care if it can last over 50k cause it will never see that many miles. They arent building cars to drive everyday and maybe take to the track on a weekend here and there. So you really HAVE to be skeptical and make sure what they are selling is good for the everyday driver.

Another gross misconception is that the designers of the car knew nothing and all the "tuner" companies can build it better. car manufacturers build a car to last 150k miles and use people with real engineering degrees to do so. Now, I will say they tend not to design with any repair in mind sometimes And they have to deal with cost, time etc. so they arent perfect. But chances are when you see something on a car that cost MORE to design it is there for a damned good reason. The designs they make have been through all of the measurements, physics studies, simulations and testing before even making it on the car. Then they are tested again, and again. Especially on powerplants that have been used over multiple car models. When you build for pure power output you can easilly shorten the life of the car, and the huge bang for the buck mods typically do so in greater effect.

And as far as some of the people mentioned over on that site, they post some VERY valuable info. And most arguments I have seen against it lack any real understanding of the issue they are really trying to speak about (like laughing at the harmonic vibration issue thinking it has ANYTHING to do with shaking the rest of the car violently). Lo BUx posts some very good info backed by info from places like Dinan and other well known shops as well as toyota themselves. Not some magazine trying to sell ads and post hot chicks posing with the latest floppy body kit nightmare that they bolted on every part known to man on.

Ok, this is WAY too long I know, but just some things to think about.

 

The ZPI quality speaks for itself. Ask those that have actually meet the team in person, and the man behind the builds.



This site is FIIIIILLLLLLEEEEEEDDDDD!!! with "know it all teeny-boppers".

Bottom Line....If you want to keep your car for 150k+miles, Don't put a turbo on it, don't put a pulley on it....CRAP MAN...don't put anything on the car. It dosen't get any reliable than that. But seeing as how this is a performance driven forum, that's not we are here for. We want to go faster, make more power, and look good doing it. And with that comes a price, and that price is reliability. If you can't hang, then don't mod. If my engine were to blow, I'd buy another, and turbo that too. Pick and choose your battles.

In terms of being skeptical of a Stage 0 kit only kit, or a Greddy kit(basically tC's with no management)...NO ONE is stopping you from buying a $300 dollar E-manage that can be included in ALL of the kits. People always scream..."OH it doesn't come with an manage...You should not buy it, or get that, or they scream, IT's GARBAGE with no Manage"... JUST BUY A FREAKIN MANAGE THEN.....Geesh! If you want to be safer, then just get the dang manage to begin with... People get so bent out of shape over it all, when you can just add a single piece that will solve your worries.


PS... Dosen't this thread belong in "Shop Experience" or something? For sure not in the F/I section. The title makes you think he had a problem with his turbokit or something.

 

And dont get me wrong, I was in no way saying anything about zpi, just peoples reasoning behind buying parts. So far what I have heard about zpi has been great

 

[quote="EddNog]Clearly, I'm chopped liver, eh?

-Ed[quote/]
my list was in no way complete, those were just some guys that automatically popped into me head. Please feel free to add to my list.

 

Blah; I'm a no-name here on SL anyway.

And who'd have the audacity to add themself to the list?

-Ed

 

When my posts question ZPI (or any other manufacturer for that matter), it isn't with the intent that my business or someone elses business is automatically better. Going for the engineering degree and working at APR I have _REALLY_ high standards for the design, testing, and production phases of a end-product.

While ZPI isn't bad, they are also not that great (keep in mind, this is my humble opinion)... on a scale of 1-10 I'd rate them a 6-7. Considering my rankings for a lot of other manufacturers, that is in the 90th percentile. I'd probably rate Sound Performance a 7-7.5, and that's the highest any company working on the tC has ranked. Hell, even my own business is ranked as a 0 until we have something to show off and sell

I have no intention of trying to discredit other companies to make my own business look better. I try to keep it as un-biased as possible so that way I can make logical decisions on products. Another thing to keep in mind, my decisions are based off of pictures, physics, and common engineering practices only. Most of the people with these products I have yet to encounter directly.

 

what is your company working on for the tC?