Engine Break-In
07-18-2004, 04:00 PM
#21
Member
SL Member
Scion Evolution
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 63
You two should hug! or just pick up the phone and call each other.
Who ever gets ____ed and hangs up loses.
Good idea huh?
____
Who ever gets ____ed and hangs up loses.
Good idea huh?
____
Last edited by MR_LUV; 12-07-2020 at 05:55 AM. Reason: Awarded 15 Yr Badge
07-18-2004, 04:17 PM
#22
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 13,963
boy you save money at the pump, but you spend that saved money on your synthetic oil, i don't think its really worth it cause you still get no money in the pocket from all this,
the way i see in breaking in an engine is do not take on the highway, use city streets and country back roads, who doesn't like country back roads... :D
the way i see in breaking in an engine is do not take on the highway, use city streets and country back roads, who doesn't like country back roads... :D
07-18-2004, 06:12 PM
#23
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2
Oil and beer
Loved the oil discussion!!!!! I use synthetic after a break in period because its just better. Too much research has been done to show this. I have a Pathfinder with the 3.5L, Honda Civic 1.5, and now my new tC. All of which will use Mobil 1. I drive about 50K a year and on the interstate at 85. I just feel better about the synthetic.
And if it makes me feel better, then its worth it. Besides would you rather drink the beast of Miller Lite. Yeah they are both beers, but Miller Lite is much better!!!!!!
And if it makes me feel better, then its worth it. Besides would you rather drink the beast of Miller Lite. Yeah they are both beers, but Miller Lite is much better!!!!!!
07-19-2004, 09:12 AM
#24
Junior Member
Scinergy
Scion Evolution
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Alhambra, CA
Posts: 5
hey
Scioco,
I am totally with you on this one. i have read and talked to master mechanics that if your going to go synthetic oil you want to do it at a very early stage. Number one because synthetic oil has a lot of detergents in it that keeps the engine running clean.Synthetic oil is also a little thinner then dino oil. The reason you don't want to change to synthetic oil at a later higher mileage date is because by using the dino oil for so long the oil has left deposit in the gaskets and seals that acts like a liquid seal. So when you put the new synthetic oil in with all the new additives and detergents it washed them out and you might have a leak somewhere.
And I am living proof that synthetic oil does work and i will be putting synthetic oil in all of my future cars. I bought a Nissan 240 SX about 2 years ago at 120,000 miles on it . now you might be saying hey you said to change it at a early stage, well I knew the risk but I read so many good thing about synthetic oil that I was willing to take a risk. So I put it in ran it for 1000 miles then i changed it again, to clean out all the oil dino oil and deposits. Well lucky for me I only got good thing out of it other then my valve cover gasket started to leak after but that was a easy fixer. I noticed a big difference in the top end rev, it was much much smoother. i drove the car all the way until 223, 987 miles and took the valve cover off just for fun one day and DAMN! The engine was really cleaner then i gotten it from the beginning. i was so amazed i am hooked on synthetic forever.
S
__________________
I am totally with you on this one. i have read and talked to master mechanics that if your going to go synthetic oil you want to do it at a very early stage. Number one because synthetic oil has a lot of detergents in it that keeps the engine running clean.Synthetic oil is also a little thinner then dino oil. The reason you don't want to change to synthetic oil at a later higher mileage date is because by using the dino oil for so long the oil has left deposit in the gaskets and seals that acts like a liquid seal. So when you put the new synthetic oil in with all the new additives and detergents it washed them out and you might have a leak somewhere.
And I am living proof that synthetic oil does work and i will be putting synthetic oil in all of my future cars. I bought a Nissan 240 SX about 2 years ago at 120,000 miles on it . now you might be saying hey you said to change it at a early stage, well I knew the risk but I read so many good thing about synthetic oil that I was willing to take a risk. So I put it in ran it for 1000 miles then i changed it again, to clean out all the oil dino oil and deposits. Well lucky for me I only got good thing out of it other then my valve cover gasket started to leak after but that was a easy fixer. I noticed a big difference in the top end rev, it was much much smoother. i drove the car all the way until 223, 987 miles and took the valve cover off just for fun one day and DAMN! The engine was really cleaner then i gotten it from the beginning. i was so amazed i am hooked on synthetic forever.
S
__________________
Last edited by MR_LUV; 12-07-2020 at 06:04 AM. Reason: Awarded 15 Yr Badge
07-19-2004, 10:33 PM
#25
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 8
Wow, so much false information being thrown around that I don't even know where to begin. I am not going to proclaim anything about how smart I am, or what degrees I have, but I will say that you can't believe everything you read, and doing some REAL research will uncover most of your questions.
Before any of you make any more posts about the qualities of synthetic motor oil vs. conventional, please spend at least a few hours reading what real experts put in their own cars, and the topics they discuss.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi
First off, synthetic IS worth the additional investment IMHO.
Here are some of the reasons why I believe so...
1. lower pour points and lower cold viscosities resulting in much lower starting wear, especially in winter when an engine will acquire MOST of its wear and tear.
2. Longer oil drain intervals. Using UOA's (used oil analysis) one can often go 10,000 miles or longer on a TRUE sythetic (more on this later). Some have gone as many as 25,000 miles before any signs of the synth. giving up the ghost were noticed
3. Synthetics have fewer VI's (viscosity index improvers) that break down under high heat and leave deposits. Cleaner engine means better efficiency and less chance of damaging particles.
4. Higher HT/HS (high temperature / high shear) properties. This is a rating that describes the exact oil trait that plain engine bearings require. Good resistance to shearing at high temps. Sythetics can easily be 1.5 times greater with film strengths often 10 to 100 times greater.
These are actually just a few. I invite you to do some looking into that forum I posted above. You will find that there are many reasons to run synthetic. The most important being the chance for longer drains intervals which will actually save you money in the long run.
Myths:
Start synth at 50,000 miles...etc. Synth can be started any time, and I suggest the earlier the better. On all my new cars I change out the factory fill to Mobile 1 synth at 500 miles. Synth comes as a factory fill on many new cars, so obviously it can be used right off the bat.
Synth can't be used in some cars...total crap! While some engines respond to different oils with different wear, one can only tell through details UOA's. Any synthetic oil that carries the proper approval can be used in your engine.
All synths are the same...again not true. The only true group IV / PAO oil that is easily attainable (say Wal-M@rt) would be Mobile 1. The rest (Castrol, Penns, havoline) may have some ture synthetic mixed in their bottle of 100% synthetic. The fact is that they are using group III base stocks that are hydrocracked from regular old dead dino oil. There are other true group IV synths as well, but are harder to come by.
Synth stops wear...not true. Synth may slow wear due to better cold starting, or higher film strength at high stress points, but a UOA will show wear metals just the same.
Ok, I'm done for now...
Your right, regular old dino will work for the regular old driver. I like to think of myself as a driving enthusiast. I work my engine a little harder than most would. If you took your engine to the dyno after its life of conventional oil it may well run just fine, but I think you will see less HP, less torque, worse emissions, poorer cooling, and an overall less healthy engine that has been running on a true synthetic its whole life. I like to get the best bang for as long as I can out of my engines so I will stick with my synth.
If you would like to dispute anything I have stated, feel free, but please do some looking before you go shooting your mouth off. Much of what has been posted as fact on this thread is in fact total BS! I feel bad for the people that read some of it not knowing the difference.
Before any of you make any more posts about the qualities of synthetic motor oil vs. conventional, please spend at least a few hours reading what real experts put in their own cars, and the topics they discuss.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi
First off, synthetic IS worth the additional investment IMHO.
Here are some of the reasons why I believe so...
1. lower pour points and lower cold viscosities resulting in much lower starting wear, especially in winter when an engine will acquire MOST of its wear and tear.
2. Longer oil drain intervals. Using UOA's (used oil analysis) one can often go 10,000 miles or longer on a TRUE sythetic (more on this later). Some have gone as many as 25,000 miles before any signs of the synth. giving up the ghost were noticed
3. Synthetics have fewer VI's (viscosity index improvers) that break down under high heat and leave deposits. Cleaner engine means better efficiency and less chance of damaging particles.
4. Higher HT/HS (high temperature / high shear) properties. This is a rating that describes the exact oil trait that plain engine bearings require. Good resistance to shearing at high temps. Sythetics can easily be 1.5 times greater with film strengths often 10 to 100 times greater.
These are actually just a few. I invite you to do some looking into that forum I posted above. You will find that there are many reasons to run synthetic. The most important being the chance for longer drains intervals which will actually save you money in the long run.
Myths:
Start synth at 50,000 miles...etc. Synth can be started any time, and I suggest the earlier the better. On all my new cars I change out the factory fill to Mobile 1 synth at 500 miles. Synth comes as a factory fill on many new cars, so obviously it can be used right off the bat.
Synth can't be used in some cars...total crap! While some engines respond to different oils with different wear, one can only tell through details UOA's. Any synthetic oil that carries the proper approval can be used in your engine.
All synths are the same...again not true. The only true group IV / PAO oil that is easily attainable (say Wal-M@rt) would be Mobile 1. The rest (Castrol, Penns, havoline) may have some ture synthetic mixed in their bottle of 100% synthetic. The fact is that they are using group III base stocks that are hydrocracked from regular old dead dino oil. There are other true group IV synths as well, but are harder to come by.
Synth stops wear...not true. Synth may slow wear due to better cold starting, or higher film strength at high stress points, but a UOA will show wear metals just the same.
Ok, I'm done for now...
Your right, regular old dino will work for the regular old driver. I like to think of myself as a driving enthusiast. I work my engine a little harder than most would. If you took your engine to the dyno after its life of conventional oil it may well run just fine, but I think you will see less HP, less torque, worse emissions, poorer cooling, and an overall less healthy engine that has been running on a true synthetic its whole life. I like to get the best bang for as long as I can out of my engines so I will stick with my synth.
If you would like to dispute anything I have stated, feel free, but please do some looking before you go shooting your mouth off. Much of what has been posted as fact on this thread is in fact total BS! I feel bad for the people that read some of it not knowing the difference.
07-20-2004, 02:09 PM
#27
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 8
Synthetic oil should not be used in a rotary engine (i.e RX-7 and RX-8's). This is due to the fact that the rotary engine burns oil in the combustion chamber,
and due to synthetic burning at a higher temp, it doesn't fully combust and causes seals to stick. Google 'synthetic oil rotary engine' and you'll see many articles about this.
and due to synthetic burning at a higher temp, it doesn't fully combust and causes seals to stick. Google 'synthetic oil rotary engine' and you'll see many articles about this.
_____
Last edited by MR_LUV; 12-07-2020 at 06:07 AM. Reason: Awarded 15 Yr Badge
07-20-2004, 03:46 PM
#29
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 388
Change oil first 1000 miles
This is a very controversial topic…
There are various "Break-In Secrets" for new engines on the internet
Especially for motorcycles and small engines (like ours).
From what I have been told by my mechanics and what I have read, the best thing to do is drive normally but not at continuous high speeds for a long time for the first 500 miles. Occasional quick bursts of speed followed by quick deceleration during this period, is beneficial. Long trips (and towing) are not recommended until after 1000 miles.
The only thing almost all the articles agreed on for a new engine was to change the oil after the first 1000 miles to get rid of any metal particles that may damage the engine.
For my xB, I drove it "normally" with the occasional "quick burst" and changed the oil at 1000 miles. Now I've got 3500 miles and it runs fine. I have also noticed that the gas mileage went from 25MPG (when new) to 29MPG (at 3000 miles) and the car seems a lot quicker than when it was new.
SOURCES:
http://www.enginesonly.com/break-in.html
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm.
http://www.stretcher.com/stories/02/02feb25k.cfm
There are various "Break-In Secrets" for new engines on the internet
Especially for motorcycles and small engines (like ours).
From what I have been told by my mechanics and what I have read, the best thing to do is drive normally but not at continuous high speeds for a long time for the first 500 miles. Occasional quick bursts of speed followed by quick deceleration during this period, is beneficial. Long trips (and towing) are not recommended until after 1000 miles.
The only thing almost all the articles agreed on for a new engine was to change the oil after the first 1000 miles to get rid of any metal particles that may damage the engine.
For my xB, I drove it "normally" with the occasional "quick burst" and changed the oil at 1000 miles. Now I've got 3500 miles and it runs fine. I have also noticed that the gas mileage went from 25MPG (when new) to 29MPG (at 3000 miles) and the car seems a lot quicker than when it was new.
SOURCES:
http://www.enginesonly.com/break-in.html
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm.
http://www.stretcher.com/stories/02/02feb25k.cfm
07-21-2004, 04:55 PM
#31
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 3
Synthetic oil..
Hey everyone, I am a new Scion xA owner. I used to work in an independent BMW shop and I am about to leave for Connecticut to work for Skip Barber Racing School at Lime Rock racetrack. I was reading all of your comments about synthetic oil and what not and I just want to clarify some things: starting off (0-7500 miles) you do not want to use synthetic oil, just regular stuff will do. If you're really that obsessive over your car after 7500 miles use semi-synthetic, if you use fully syn. it might not work right and you could screw up your engine (unlikely, but their is still a risk), anywhere after 75,000 miles I would say it's safe to use fully synthetic. For the record I am 19, so I'm not one of those "older elitist mechanics" but seriously, a lot of them know what they're talking about.
If any has any questions and they think I can help, feel free to PM me.
___
If any has any questions and they think I can help, feel free to PM me.
___
Last edited by MR_LUV; 12-07-2020 at 06:11 AM. Reason: Awarded 15 Yr Badge
07-21-2004, 07:49 PM
#32
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 8
Just wondering what data or facts you have to back up your claims?
Hey everyone, I am a new Scion Xa owner. I used to work in an independent BMW shop and I am about to leave for Connecticut to work for Skip Barber Racing School at Lime Rock racetrack. I was reading all of your comments about synthetic oil and what not and I just want to clarify some things: starting off (0-7500 miles) you do not want to use synthetic oil, just regular stuff will do. If you're really that obsessive over your car after 7500 miles use semi-synthetic, if you use fully syn. it might not work right and you could screw up your engine (unlikely, but their is still a risk), anywhere after 75,000 miles I would say it's safe to use fully synthetic. For the record I am 19, so I'm not one of those "older elitist mechanics" but seriously, a lot of them know what they're talking about.
07-27-2004, 03:18 PM
#33
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 3
well, ok, you're probably going to think i'm full of crap but trust me, i'm not. this info is all stuff that i've learned from over time and asking people i work with. i could find some test results that would prove me right, but i'm sure anyone could find test results saying otherwise. Besides, no one on these forums should worry about their oil for the first 15,000 miles, you get 3 free oil changes from Scion.
By the way, running fully synthetic motor oil does not add horsepower. This I can prove.
By the way, running fully synthetic motor oil does not add horsepower. This I can prove.
07-28-2004, 04:27 PM
#34
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 584
hey now..i'm not a master mechanic, chemical engineer, or psychiatrist, but i'll play all three here. I am sure if we all change our oil on a regular basis, and based on driving conditions, our econoboxes will last at least as long as it will take to pay them off. 
Use whatever oil makes you feel good.
or just split the difference, use a synthetic blend.
Use whatever oil makes you feel good.
or just split the difference, use a synthetic blend.
08-14-2004, 08:23 PM
#36
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 3
there's a good chance that the dealership won't have synthetic oil on hand but if they say they'll do it, i'd trust them. dealerships don't try to screw you over as much as some people say they will. although, there are some that you gotta watch out for.
as far as actually checking if they put synthetic in or not.... i don't know of any ways to tell, i'd just take their word.
as far as actually checking if they put synthetic in or not.... i don't know of any ways to tell, i'd just take their word.
08-21-2004, 07:08 PM
#37
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Seatown, WA
Posts: 2
I totally agree with the break in method of varying your rpms/differnt loads. I've used that technique on all my cars and motorycles with no problems whatsoever.
As far as synthetic, I've been using Amsoil synthetic. There was a really good oil comparison in one of my Sportrider magazines. Amsoil and Mobile 1 were some of the best syth oils on the market today. I chose Amsoil because it had the most anti-wear additives in their formula.
As far as synthetic, I've been using Amsoil synthetic. There was a really good oil comparison in one of my Sportrider magazines. Amsoil and Mobile 1 were some of the best syth oils on the market today. I chose Amsoil because it had the most anti-wear additives in their formula.
08-23-2004, 06:42 AM
#38
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SL Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: To all the Haters!
Posts: 517
Break-in Secret
I'm not sure if this has been posted or not but here you guys go.
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
This site has helped my friends with bikes, and cars alike.
It works and is still working for my buddies. It will be done to my tC when it comes in.
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
This site has helped my friends with bikes, and cars alike.
It works and is still working for my buddies. It will be done to my tC when it comes in.
09-04-2004, 11:12 PM
#39
Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hollywood, Florida
Posts: 30
This should be helpful for all you guys who have not got your car yet.
http://www.newscion.org/forums/showthread.php?t=307
http://www.newscion.org/forums/showthread.php?t=307
11-20-2004, 08:02 PM
#40
Senior Member
SL Member
Scion Evolution
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 799
I am not so sure why there is so much hyps about "breaking in " your car. As long as you aren't HARD on it for the first few hundred miles, you should be just fine. As far as long distance driving....they mean LONG DISTANCE. 40 miles is not long!!!