Funny how no one ever mentions the1500 years christianity put to death non believers in the name of the "loving" lord.

I suppose clothes are more importamt than human life.

 

Dude... I'm on your side. Admitting that without religion a lot of katrina victims would be in a lot more hurt right now does not make their doctrine correct and does not take away from the things they did in the past. I'm simply saying that religion in modern times has done a lot of good for a lot of people

 

Just because someone is born in a certain country where a certain religion was dominant, that does not mean I would be Hindu. I believe the bible is right, because I'm christian. I believe what the bible teaches, and I understand that when you live your life to the way that God teaches you to, your life is better. The bible is availible in hundreds of different languages to over 90% of the earths population today. There are christians in India/Pakistan/Russia/Japan/Korea just like in other countries. There are muslims, islamic people, jewish people, athiest in EVERY country. The bible teaches truths, it is not contradictory.

BTW, I love cheeseburgers.

 

I believe the Bible does teach this...
By "trinity" I mean that within the nature of the one true God, there are three eternal, distinct Persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three persons are the one God. By using the logical technique called the transitive property of equality (things equal to the same thing are equal to each other), I will now demonstrate the biblical doctrine of the Trinity.

The Bible teaches that there is only one uncreated, eternal, true God (Exodus 3:14; Deuteronomy 6:4; John 17:3).

The Bible teaches that there will never be any other uncreated, eternal, true God(s) to come into existence (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6-8; 1 Cor. 8:4-6; Galatians 4:.

The Bible teaches that this one true God created everything ex nihilo, or from nothing (Psalm 90:2; Isaiah 44:24; Hebrews 3:4; 11:3).

When we say "the Father is God," we mean that a distinct person known as the Father is identifiable as the one true God, the creator ex nihilo (1 Cor. 8:4-6; 2 Peter 1:17). When we say "the Son is God," we mean that a distinct person known as the Son is identifiable as the one true God, the creator ex nihilo (John 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16).

When we say "the Holy Spirit is God," we mean that a distinct person known as the Holy Spirit is identifiable as the one true God, the creator ex nihilo (Job 33:4; Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 2:11).

Therefore, as the transitive property of equality shows us, the three Persons Are the One God (Matthew 28:19).


Also, Jesus a magician? good explaination, But did David Blaine or Chris Angel calm a storm, feed thousands with fish and a couple loaves of bread from a basket, raise the dead, heal blindness, heal the deaf, cure leprosy, etc. etc. etc? Oh, and that's without modern technology...or was he maybe a man from the future? (sarcasm) There were others in Jesus' time, that were sorcerers, magicians, etc. They claimed to be god or god-like, but were quickly proven false.

I still don't understand how you say the world could be started by anything other than God. And you're right about the cyclic argument of who created God... and who created that God, etc. etc. No matter how youlook at it, there has to be a beginning... And God, is the Alpha and Omega, beginning and end. The earth, and space, and the cosmos too, had a beginning. You've stated this yourself, as evidenced by the universe expanding. So how'd it start?

It's seems to me that when the HUGE gaps in the theories of a natural creation, big bang, macro evolution, etc just happening are pointed out, people are quick to just say they don't know and don't care, but still, the same people would say there is not a single possibility that there is a creator or that the Bible is true.

 

What you have is faith and is not fact. It is only what you believe. No matter how much faith you have, no matter how much you wish otherwise, it does not make it "proof".


No.
Faith, being belief that isnt based on evidence, is the principal vice of any religion. And who, looking at Northern Ireland or the Middle East or the United States, can be confident that the brain virus of faith is not exceedingly dangerous? Scienceis not religion and it doesnt just come down to faith. Although it has many of religions virtues, it has none of its vices. Science is based upon verifiable evidence. Religious faith not only lacks evidence, its independence from evidence is its pride and joy, shouted from the rooftops.

 

It's kinda like saying:

 

LOL!!!!!!!!!! He says the bible is not contradictory and then a couple posts later his belief that there is no trinity based on the bible is contradicted by a theist also based on the bible!!!! HOW DO YOU PEOPLE NOT SEE HOW FUNNY THAT IS????

 

Just because we understand the Bible differently, or have a differenet amount of knowledge or type of knowledge about the Bible does not make the Bible contradictory. Do you not have a different understanding or amount of knowledge about evolution or the big bang, or science in general than other people, professors, students, scientists, etc.?

BTW, my whole point in being here, is to say that after 2000 years, the Bible holds more true today than ever. I'm not "shouting from the rooftops" that there is not evidence to prove God and that it is only a leap of faith. It is a leap of faith, but I believe it is at the same time an educated decision based upon evidence.

 

Sorry but leap of faith and educated decision don't go hand in hand. And if two people can take two drastically different beliefs out of the same bible that we can pick up and read today then who took what from which story before it was even written? Understand?

 

Arguing about the bible anyways is a mood point because in order for the bible to have any validity there has to be a god, which there is no evidence to support.
Krusty, sorry to pick on you but you said that even if your parents were devout muslims you would have picked up a bible and told your parents the koran is for suckers. Fine, that is the extreme exception but I'll run with it. You do realize that there are people and have always been people(like the native americans) who have never heard of the bible. If you were born into one of those cultures not only would you not "KNOW" the bible was true, you would not "KNOW" the bible existed and you would be arguing in favor of a God that the bible condems you to worship. First Comandment. Your turn.

 

There are people who never did get a chance to know about God. Be it ancient chinese people who never encountered christians, or native americans. The bible says that there will be a resurrection of good and bad, the ones who never did hear about god, will be given a chance to live their lives to the way God commands.

Mitchell, Who did Jesus pray to on the torture stake? Himself?

 

I see where you are going with this... So, For who knows how many thousands of years,
natives in Australia, the Americas, and so on knew nothing about Jesus or the Bible.
Did the God who wants no one to perish leave them without a chance of salvation?

So here are my 'answers' without going into Biblical theology as to why I believe them...

*Although Scripture says God is partially revealed outside of the Bible (by creation, for instance) his full revelation to humanity is found only in the Bible. Except for the purpose of evangelism, there is nothing to be gained by Christians studying non-Christian religions.

* There is no hope for those who die having consciously rejected Jesus’ sacrifice as their sole means of salvation.

* We are commanded to preach the Gospel to all people groups. God would only command this if it were important.

* It would be perfect justice for everyone on this planet to be sent to hell. Our consciences have grown so callous by the corrupting effect of our own sin, that we have no conception of how deserving of hell every one of us is. Not one of us has kept our own moral standards, much less God’s holy standards. No one, whether Christian or pagan, deserves heaven.

 

Wow? And you buy that rationalization? If it pleases god for us to know and love him why wouldn't he give us all the same opportunity?

 

I agree. I agree that God will judge those that did not have a chance to hear the gospel (even babies) in a manner that will be truly righteous.

He was praying to God the Father... thus "Father, why have you forsaken me?" You see, Jesus, taught us how to pray (The Lord's Prayer), but he was also in constant communication and interaction with God the Father and The Holy Spirit. I believe this was for an example to us, where we can constantly live as if we are in the presence of God (which we are). We can constantly commune with him through our thoughts and prayers.

 

George Carlin's take on the subject matter (Lots of cursing...if that bothers you do not watch):
His take on the Ten Commandments
His take on religion

 

"There is no hope for those who die having consciously rejected Jesus’ sacrifice as their sole means of salvation."
So glad you mentioned that. It is where our doctrine conflicts most.
It continues to amaze me that Christian doctrine teaches that the man who goes to church every sunday and puts a couple bucks in the basket who "knows" christ is his savoir is better than the atheist who gives up all he has to help those less fortunate. You guys are so arrogant in your beliefs. Just that an all powerfull being would need to create you to make himself happy shows how so. The guy could build himself a Play Station 8 with a 90" plasma if he wanted. Scrath that... a 90' plasma!!!!

 

Damn it! Everytime I mention hypocrasy, people say thats not what we are talking about. Yet, you keep on bringing that up! How do we not help people? I preach to people all the time, I try to show them that without God, there is no meaning to life, I show that Jesus came to earth to die for our sins. I give them hope for the only real future mankind has. What do you do? I (with Gods holy spirit) do more than you EVER could.

 

WHOA!!! Putting yourself on a pedestal there Krusty...that's vanity...on the border of self idolization. Watch that thin line you are trippin' on.

 

You preach to people...
Meanwhile Atheist feeds people...
You show there is no meaning to life without "God"
Atheist builds homes for homeless...
Hmmm... Yeah your a giver.

 

I don't know, exactly. I'd like to think that I am a studied Christian, but this issue is actually one that leads us to have different denominations in the church. I'm a presbyterian, so, please, after this quick answer, let's sly away from this subject. (there are entire books written about it).

I believe that God, being all powerful, all knowing, omniscient, etc. etc. that when he made creation, he already knows all time. past, present, future, etc. He knows who will reject him and who won't. I believe too, that without God making the fist move, none of us would actually choose Him. In other words, God uses the Holy Spirit to move in us, so that our hearts are softened and we may choose Him. It is a concept called predestination that we Presbyterians are infamous for.

To better conceptulize this concept, we use the acronym T-U-L-I-P

T stands for “Total depravity.” - It simply means that we are weak in every part. That we are all effected by sin.

U stands for “Unconditional election.” - This means that God chose who the believers would be. Tough concept, but what it means is that man can't claim any credit at all for being saved. God takes all the credit.

L stands for “Limited atonement.” - The gift of redemption from sin applies to thos who were elect as believers.

I stands for “Irresistible grace.” - the Spirit irresistibly draws sinners to Christ. Working from the inside, God causes the believer to change their beliefs. This means that God's work can never fail.

P stands for “Perseverance of the saints" - The Father chose a people, the Son died for them, the Holy Spirit makes Christ's death effective by bringing the elect to faith and repentance, thereby causing them to willingly obey the gospel.

If this is confusing to a non-believer, please let it rest, because it is confusing to or rejected by many Christians as well. But, this argument has no sense in this thread, because it is a belief, that has no aspect on the beliefs that are core of the Bible... That you are saved through the acceptance of Christ.