It is not just the illegals coming over the border to find jobs (easy to find if you are willing to work off-the-books with no taxes, low wages, no benefits - saves the company not only on wages, but on social security, state taxes, etc.), but the OTHER illegals - the terrorists, the criminals, the drug trafficers - that NEED to be stopped no matter WHAT you want to do with the guys after work...

It is not just stopping the folks coming over for a better life, but stopping the 'bad guys' hidden amongst them. Don't forget that a big part of "protecting our boarders" is about that very thing: Protecting.

Coming down on the employers of illegals IS necessary, but doing that will have little effect on the 'bad guys' in the flow.

Aside: One of the big differences between legal immigrants and illegal aliens is the background checks that can be done.

As tempting as a 'free fire zone' at the border might sometimes seem - say a 100 yard zone completely cleared of all brush and obstructions with permission to fire on anything that moves, like we had around Air Force bases in 'Nam - that really isn't the sort of thing this country is based on. There must be better ways.

In any case, with the 'black hats' definately 'out there' somewhere, we need better control of theeir entry into this country. We already have 'paths to citizenship' available with legal immigration, we need to control the 8,200 a day flood of all those other folks who for whatever reason want to avoid official notice...

 

does it make any difference that the 911 bad guys came here legally, through Canada? Maybe if the tide were cut by 75% law enforcement would be able to better handle the flow.

 

YES! And then anyone who breaks any law in this country should be shot and killed on site. Sweet! No more crime! Humane? Who needs to be humane?

 

Last time I checked, there's still insurgence going on in Iraq. You know, car bombs, shootings and such. Shame it's not feasible to have troops for every square mile of the country. But thanks for the math lesson.

 

yeah, i find it ironic how the mexican government police there border with a show of force but is racist and politically inncorrect if we do the same.

the mexican government needs to create a reason for these people to stay in thier country.
I think canada offers free health care but you dont see americans sneaking accross the border for that.
i agree with scott....just shoot them

 

Well Mr. Democrat, Let's hear your WORKABLE, liberal plan.

 

bring on the frontier justice.........

 

Thanks for proving my point!

>Last time I checked, there's still insurgence going on in Iraq. You know, car bombs, shootings and such.

That's right, so since there is NO insurgency in the US, it would be easier to police the border, if given the same amount of resources and money that Iraq & Afghanistan have going to them.

>Shame it's not feasible to have troops for every square mile of the country.

I made no mention of pulling out troops over there.

I made no mention of having troops in every square mile of any country; I stated that it would be much easier to police a BORDER than an entire countryside.

>But thanks for the math lesson.

You make it easy to be schooled.

 

 

Just proves how racist the senate is.

How does making English the national language racist and aimed at spanish speakers?

You mean to tell me the rest of the world speaks spanish?
Or people that speak spanish are the only ones allowed to immigrate to the US?

The US needs to police its borders better hands down. And enforce exsisting immigration policies.

Also quit catoring to the minority! This is a democracy, can i get a MAJORITY vote?

 

everyone should speak english here and go through a legal process to gain citizenship

 

a good freind of mine was stationed in japan for 5 years and he had to learn japanese to perform basic daily functions. Japan is not a melting pot like the US,it has one language, and one dominant culture. however language is not a racial issue its a culture issue and the US is a english speaking culture.

 

see http://www.us-english.org/inc/

Obviously, in this age there is no problem with speaking more than one language and americans should and need to learn more than one.
HOWEVER, within our borders ONE LANGUAGE SHOULD BE USED!
It unifies and identifies our country, ESPECIALLY this one made out of hundreds if not thousands of different lingual groups!
I should not have to know another language to get a job and use government institutions, or communicate with others within our borders. Plain as that!
Many nations that have experimented with multilingualism have vanished!

 

Careful: The United States is traditionally a "Melting Pot."

That does not mean "Multi Cultural" where everyone comes in to the country and maintains the same language, culture, social structures, etc. that they had "back home," but that the come here, having chosen to live here because of what we have and what we offer them, and learn the new languge, the new culture, the new laws, the new society they chose to become a part of.

One does not melt into and become assimilated by a society by holding oneself aloof and refusing to learn about it, or to even refusing to learn the language.

One of the most UNFAIR things I think this country does is provide schooling in immigrants native language rather than offering them high-intensity courses in learning English. If you take two 10 year old children who do not speak English, and put them through their remaining years of public education, one in their native language, one in English after a crash-course in English, which do you think will be farther ahead when it comes time to work or survive in a country where probably 200 million of their neighbors do not speak anything but English???

Melting pot: Bring the good parts of your culture, your memories, to this new culture you have chosen to join and add them to your new culture. Blend. Become assimilated. This is what immigrants have done for hundreds of years. Do not come here and refuse to take part in this culture, refuse to even learn the language. The language of this country is English. Our laws are written in English. The Constitution is written in English. To understand this country, its laws and even it's most basic tenets, one needs to understand English.

I'm not at all suggesting we force all immigrants to stop speaking whatever other language it is they speak, only that they learn THIS country's basic common language if they decide they want to be here.

(What has been offered in the Senate today is NOT a "racist" offering by suggesting that the language obviously in common use in the United States is English. "English" as a language isn't associated with race. What "race" are English speakers? Duh. Some folks are twisting the proposals in the Senate to be racist and 'anti-hispanic' when better than 95 pecent of the Hispanics in the United States speak English...)

Just a small problem in my local area is immigrants not even bothering to learn enough English to understand traffic signs, getting drivers licenses (they are allowed to have a 'translator' assist them with the written and driving tests!!!) then charging off and driving just like they used to in [INSERT COUNTRY]. Watch this quick clip to understand that not all cultures drive the same way...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjrEQaG5jPM&eurl=

OK, time for me to crawl back under my rock...

 

TOMAS FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!

 

im all for teaching other languages in school as a 2nd language. its a small world with many companies doing business in multiple countries. however all your regular classes should be in english. my high school had lots of mexicans and they had extra classes for them so they learned english for a semester or 2 before they got put into classes with everybody else.

 

I second that

 

wow.. everyone is so opinionated when it comes to this subject. I really should stay out of this because there is really no answer that is going to satisfy everyone.

One thing I would like to say is that I do agree that people should go through the proper channels to come here but those channels need to be fixed. It takes a long time and time is not something most people have when they have a family to support and can't find a good job in their own country. This applies to more countries than just MEXICO. I'm not saying it's our responsibility since we have families here who need jobs but seriously, who wants to be out in the heat picking strawberries? I did it and I would NOT go back.

 

Tomas is right, we have the same problems with illegals who refuse to learn english driving, they are so stupid they dont even know what a stop sign is. The majority of all deaths in my county when it comes to fourway stop signs is caused by a non speaking individual, legal or illegal if you cannot speak english you should not be able to drive. Period. take the bus.........not only do they not have a license they dont have insuance.

english should be the primary language used in any transaction, or function in the US, if you dont know how to speak english you should learn, it costs business millions of dollars a year for dual laungage signage, it is annoying to see. that issue comes down to laziness....



why should we streamline a process for illegals when the DMV is in shambles, as other service branches of the government. Working the fields is hard work i wont deny it, i went to my moms house to pick some grapes to eat, i walked about 3 yards into the orchard and stopped, it was hot dusty and very uncomfortable. So i give props to those who do that dirty work, but that is there choice to do that, that is specifically why they come here. 3.00 a flat is alot of money to pick grapes, more then most jobs they would be able to get in mexico. But lets look at the reality, the people who come here are already broke, uneducated and basically shunned by the mexican society anyways. I have a good freind who lives in mexico (he is mexican born) he says in mexico those people are called beaners, and wet backs just like in the US and hard working mexicans don't want them there either. It is not like we have a flood of educated professionals trying to sneak over the border, its an issue that if you think about it, Canada has free healthcare and various other perks the US does not, you dont see uneducated poor americans illegally immigrating to Canada.

If they want to come here illegally and pick fruit clean toilets whatever, that is your choice but the feeling of entitlement to social services needs to stop, they should not get the right to vote, free healthcare or an education if they com illegally. When you make a decison you have to live with the consequences and the consequence of sneaking in to the US is: crappy jobs, crappy pay and no rights to anything, not even to protest, that is an american citizens right.

In fact i read this weekend 1 in 7 immigrants sends thier paycheck back to mexico, so you cannot say that those 7 are taxpaying contributing members of society. Not only do they want rights and privleges that are not entitled to them, the want to still vote absentee for the mexican elections. That to me does not show patriotism on anylevel for the U.S. If you want to come here apply for it, do it the right way and do it with some respect, or if you do happen to make it here dont complain, its not your right.

 

I agree with alot of points made on this thread...even from people who disagree with eachother.

I think the biggest thing people take issue with is valid.
Call it racist---but it's not. I'm not referring to any specific group or nationality of people. In America we seem to use the word "racist" for almost anything that suits us.
If you went to france or Italy, and never learned to speak the languages...people would simply ignore you. They would not accomodate you, or go out of their way to learn your language. It is up to someone who goes to France to learn to speak French. Noone questions this, or call it racist. Yet, in America- if you only speak the common language,and don't dedicate time form your life to learn another language, there is a group of people who will call you "racist".

How can we allow a situation were people, who have entered this nation illegally, and contribute nothing in terms of wage taxes (unless they are using someone elses social security number- and screwing up somebody elses life), demand that things be given to them by the government. A government that they haven't payed for. Anyone who can read or understand the language of this country knows that the daily life of US residents is not run by the government. I work and pay taxes- not so the government can feed me, or take care of me. I work and pay taxes so that I don't have to rely on the government or any other form of "social program". America was not founded by, nor did it become the nation that it is because of social programs...it became what it is because life here is Not based on social programs. Is this "racist"?

It's really stupid that people think wealth, or a decent standard of living, is some mystical thing that exist around some geographic location. If you want a better life, you have to change how you live. Traveling to some other land, and then trying to live life under the same same system that you did where you came from is just really stupid. Is this "racist"?

If a nation has laws and regulations regarding how you may come to live in that country, and you ignore them-- it shows that you have either no understanding, or no regard for that nation, and its laws. Why should you demand anything from me? You have no respect for me or how I live, so why should I respect you? If you weren't amassing armies on US streets and blocking people from going about their lives in a free manner-- they would not regard you at all, and they shouldn't have to. Is this "racist"?

The threat of branding people as racist is a powerful political tool, in this country today. The word has come to have such a vague meaning now. It no longer applies to race. If being a racist is no longer based on race--what is it?
I believe the prevailing political attitude now, is to tell people that it's not enough to accept, and to tolerate other people and ideas- and what you are told to feel about them. You must embrace them...and if you don't--you WILL be branded as a racist.

I don't care where you came from, and I don't care what your skin color, ethnicity, religion, or sexual preference is. I refuse to treat anyone differently based on these things. But if you cannot respect the laws of this nation, I don't believe you should be granted residency, and I dont believe you have can make a reasonable claim to even one minute of my time. Is this "racist"? .....Probably.