View Poll Results: what do you think about the illegal immigration problem?
Voters: 158. You may not vote on this poll
Immigration Reform
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 985
Not everyones going to agree with my point of view, which is completely obvious from this thread and thats totally fine with me.
For some reason this issue reminds me of people cutting in line. If and when they're caught what actions are taken? Do we kick them out completely? Send them to the back of the line? Or let them freeload?
I'm not trying established factual basis for my point of view. What I am saying is that even though "they cut in line", they still deserve a chance to atleast wait their turn at the end of the line.
However, the major issue now is do they get the free pass to cut in front of those who've been waiting??? No, of course not, however I believe they should still have a chance to atleast wait their turn at the end of the line after learning their lesson.
If you choose to view it the other way where you'd "kick them out completely" since there are logistics deeming it "right" (via US Law), then thats your prerogative.
For me, thats what it basically boils down to....
For some reason this issue reminds me of people cutting in line. If and when they're caught what actions are taken? Do we kick them out completely? Send them to the back of the line? Or let them freeload?
I'm not trying established factual basis for my point of view. What I am saying is that even though "they cut in line", they still deserve a chance to atleast wait their turn at the end of the line.
However, the major issue now is do they get the free pass to cut in front of those who've been waiting??? No, of course not, however I believe they should still have a chance to atleast wait their turn at the end of the line after learning their lesson.
If you choose to view it the other way where you'd "kick them out completely" since there are logistics deeming it "right" (via US Law), then thats your prerogative.
For me, thats what it basically boils down to....
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 616
From: Kitchen Stadium
Focusing only on our southern border, however, and the huge number of Mexicans and other Hispanics illegaly crossing the border, is obscuring some of the even more potentially serious problems of turning a blind eye to who is entering our country.
Not everyone on this planet is our friend. Not everyone on this planet wishes us well.
If nothing else, we need control of who is entering simply to give us SOME chance to protect ourselves.
This isn't just about all the cheap labor flooding in from the south, and it is a disservice to folks concerned about our security to focus only on that (numericly large) problem.
Not everyone on this planet is our friend. Not everyone on this planet wishes us well.
If nothing else, we need control of who is entering simply to give us SOME chance to protect ourselves.
This isn't just about all the cheap labor flooding in from the south, and it is a disservice to folks concerned about our security to focus only on that (numericly large) problem.
Sadly, with the international climate as it is, no country should have an open border....or open border policy (as Canada is starting to learn).
BTW, everyone, lets stay away from personal attacks on other members and stick to discussing "Immigration Reform" - personal attacks on others is forbidden by the ScionLife rules, and will NOT be tolerated. We have rules here that need to be followed, also, and even have our OWN form of deportation. Thank you.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,409
From: Redneck Riveria
I can tell you, from the official entry papers I have from my grandfather, where he was born, where he lived, where he boarded a ship to come here (and what ship it was), when and where he arrived in th US, what nationality he was, what language he spoke, an approximation of his name, his closest relatives, his reason for coming here, what he planned to do here, and other miscelaneous information.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,570
From: University Place, WA
I'll have to agree wwith a good part of what you just said, R2D2.
The are a number of 'problems' being discussed here - the flood of folks continuing to come across our border illegally, those same folks and their supporters demonstrating for their "rights," and what we should do with the millions already here illegally.
What is currently being suggested by the senate and the president is to hit the reset button and allow those here illegally to stay - all that would be required would be for them to pay a 'fee' (suggested to be around $3200?) and they would be popped to the head of the line - ahead of all those already in line for LEGAL entry. That is essentially rewarding the illegals for breaking the law.
Beyond that, the passed senate bill also allows that mass of 12,000,000 to 20,000,000 illegal aliens who pay their 'fee' to be made legal, to be entitled to benefits from out of our pockets for anything they were denied from the government because of their illegal status - RETROACTIVELY!
If you 'cut in line' you should at the very least be sent to the end of the line to wait. In reality, that means being sent back to wherever it was you came from until your turn comes. Remember, the line forms somewhere outside our borders. The waiting room isn't in LA.
This is not 'kicking them out completely' merely sending them to the end of the line with the opportunity to re-enter legally.
The bill the senate passed is wrong. The president suggesting that merely paying a fee will get them to the head of the line is wrong. Allowing them to flout our laws is wrong. What we should be trying to do is determine what is RIGHT, not just expedient.
The are a number of 'problems' being discussed here - the flood of folks continuing to come across our border illegally, those same folks and their supporters demonstrating for their "rights," and what we should do with the millions already here illegally.
What is currently being suggested by the senate and the president is to hit the reset button and allow those here illegally to stay - all that would be required would be for them to pay a 'fee' (suggested to be around $3200?) and they would be popped to the head of the line - ahead of all those already in line for LEGAL entry. That is essentially rewarding the illegals for breaking the law.
Beyond that, the passed senate bill also allows that mass of 12,000,000 to 20,000,000 illegal aliens who pay their 'fee' to be made legal, to be entitled to benefits from out of our pockets for anything they were denied from the government because of their illegal status - RETROACTIVELY!
If you 'cut in line' you should at the very least be sent to the end of the line to wait. In reality, that means being sent back to wherever it was you came from until your turn comes. Remember, the line forms somewhere outside our borders. The waiting room isn't in LA.
This is not 'kicking them out completely' merely sending them to the end of the line with the opportunity to re-enter legally.
The bill the senate passed is wrong. The president suggesting that merely paying a fee will get them to the head of the line is wrong. Allowing them to flout our laws is wrong. What we should be trying to do is determine what is RIGHT, not just expedient.
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Scikotics
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 326
From: extremeautogpx.com
Originally Posted by R2D2
Damn everytime i post a response there comes returns double quick... U Bastards!!!
Okay, so now we're on the topic or Immigration Vs. Illegal Immigration.
Technically speaking it is a "criminal"... I've been stating that... Hello??? Anyone home???
At the same time, if they locked you in a room with a real criminal Vs. an "illegal immigrant" which would you rather choose?
My point is, although you've labelled them "criminals", in general they haven't honestly done anything majorly "criminal", and therefore shouldn't labelled as such. Maybe if we called them "misdemeanors" we could all get along in the 21st century... LoL
In essence, what I'm saying is the term "criminal" is too harsh of a word. We all came from somewhere, and we all deserve a chance in life no matter what country we're from or dwell in.
Okay, so now we're on the topic or Immigration Vs. Illegal Immigration.
Technically speaking it is a "criminal"... I've been stating that... Hello??? Anyone home???
At the same time, if they locked you in a room with a real criminal Vs. an "illegal immigrant" which would you rather choose?
My point is, although you've labelled them "criminals", in general they haven't honestly done anything majorly "criminal", and therefore shouldn't labelled as such. Maybe if we called them "misdemeanors" we could all get along in the 21st century... LoL
In essence, what I'm saying is the term "criminal" is too harsh of a word. We all came from somewhere, and we all deserve a chance in life no matter what country we're from or dwell in.
most of those people they post just stupi%$# comments cuz they live in states that inmigrants are not in big numbers and they dont know the real impact onthe local economy ( i live in a city with 85% of inmigrants mostly mexican)
2.- do you know how many years take the procesess to be legal ?
it took me 21 years
p.s. i never seen a mexican terrorist go and put a wall in canada
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 616
From: Kitchen Stadium
I don't know how many times i've seen illegal aliens flee the scene of an accident or hit and run because they are here illegally and don't want to get caught.
"What happens when an asian moves into the barrio?"
"All the mexicans go out and get car insurance."
In all fairness, I will now follow with some white jokes:
What do you call 300 white men chasing a black man?
The PGA tour.
Why do so many white people get lost skiing?
It's hard to find them in the snow.
What did they white guy do before his blood test?
He studied.
What did the black guy do with his M&Ms?
Eat them
What did they white guy try and do with his?
Put them in alphabetical order
What did a white guy see when he looked at his family tree?
A straight line!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,570
From: University Place, WA
Let's just say that I spent many years collecting "Polish jokes." :D
Such as...
Can you speak Polish?
How does it feel to be dumber than a Polock?
________________
Porozmawiajmy: jeden, dwa, trzy, cztery, pięć, sześć, siedem, osiem, dziewięć, dziesięć...
Nawet nie próbuj!
Z poważaniem,
Such as...
Can you speak Polish?
How does it feel to be dumber than a Polock?
________________
Porozmawiajmy: jeden, dwa, trzy, cztery, pięć, sześć, siedem, osiem, dziewięć, dziesięć...
Nawet nie próbuj!
Z poważaniem,
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 616
From: Kitchen Stadium
I'm from the Detroit area, so I too am well versed in the Polish jokes:
What is long and hard that a Polish bride gets on her wedding night?
A new last name.
What do polish women and hockey players have in common?
They go and shower after the third period.
^^sorry that's not too clean of a joke. Get it? not too clean?!
Seriously, sorry if that's not appropriate. I know this is a family show.
What is long and hard that a Polish bride gets on her wedding night?
A new last name.
What do polish women and hockey players have in common?
They go and shower after the third period.
^^sorry that's not too clean of a joke. Get it? not too clean?!
Seriously, sorry if that's not appropriate. I know this is a family show.
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 258
From: Houston
Originally Posted by R2D2
Wow Scott17... you are truely stupidity at its worse. Besides leeching off other peoples posts, don't you have anything original to say on your own? Or do you need training wheels to post?
F.Y.I. The government can make you accountable (to some degree) for your "father/mother/kid/pet/family".....
Maicca, Don't paraphrase, specially if you don't understand my point.
If it broke down to be that simple you'd have a good point... However its not that simple.
Quote: "WHEN YOU COMMIT A CRIME, YOU ARE A CRIMINAL - true or false? " I say TRUE.
On the same token, if a hundred years ago it was deemed "legal" to immigrate, than a hundred years later you do the EXACT samething but now are labelled a "criminal", is that initial act criminal or not? And if it is, doesn't that make both incidents identical? So how can there be two different justifications???
See my point here? You probably won't, however I had to try...
F.Y.I. The government can make you accountable (to some degree) for your "father/mother/kid/pet/family".....
Maicca, Don't paraphrase, specially if you don't understand my point.
If it broke down to be that simple you'd have a good point... However its not that simple.
Quote: "WHEN YOU COMMIT A CRIME, YOU ARE A CRIMINAL - true or false? " I say TRUE.
On the same token, if a hundred years ago it was deemed "legal" to immigrate, than a hundred years later you do the EXACT samething but now are labelled a "criminal", is that initial act criminal or not? And if it is, doesn't that make both incidents identical? So how can there be two different justifications???
See my point here? You probably won't, however I had to try...
Ok first of all I happen to think Scott17 has been posting some good stuff that shows that he is educated. If no one understands your posts or sees your point I think Scott is right in thinking you don't have one. Why is it that Scott is kkk I havn't seen any post by him that would suggest he is in any way racist, and I find it in pretty bad taste to accuse someone of being kkk because he doesn't agree with you. It makes you look very childish.
Now as far as you saying that what was once legal is now illegal is uneducated. In the 1800's when people really started immigrating here they were documented and given citizenship. What illegals are doing is sneaking over undocumented. I am sure that your next post will tell me that I don't see your point.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 985
Originally Posted by jeffrgunn23
Why is it that Scott is kkk I havn't seen any post by him that would suggest he is in any way racist, and I find it in pretty bad taste to accuse someone of being kkk because he doesn't agree with you. It makes you look very childish.
Originally Posted by Scott17
How about letting the LEGAL immigrants pick the straberries so whitey doesn't have to spend so much on healthcare. The strawberry savings just don't add up. Just for grins, do a little research on how much money the US government WASTES every year printing forms in spanish also. This cost alone would offset the savings lost on agriculture. I know damn well if I was planning to move to another country I would certainly learn their language. It's really hard to justify illegal immigration no matter how ignorant one is. It is not every Mexicans birthright to illegally immigrate to the US no matter what they teach in the Republic of Kalifornias school system.
Or just teach them how to pick strawberries.
Someone has a chip on their sombrero.
Cute enough to get a date with your mom though!
Nothing like a 19 year old liberal who cant comprehend the news. And if you aren't an AMERICAN flag waver, why don't you go live in the country of the flag you choose to wave.(right after you mow my lawn).
These workers will be DOCUMENTED and won't be our guest SPONGES.
I am not a fan of ILLEGAL ALIENS of ANY color, race or creed. If you live in this country as a citizen you are an AMERICAN. If you consider yourself a Mexican, why not go live in Mexico. I have German ancesters. I don't go aroung referring to myself as German. I,m AMERICAN! NOT German-American, American-German or any such else nonsense, AMERICAN! Get with the program of our country if you choose to live in it or else go to wherever it is you think you belong.
I don't know what color you are but you have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that you are 19 years old! Somehow you have become an expert in the political arena and yet you're not old enough to drink a beer! Got the tiger by the tail, don't ya..........
How's that for a beat-down?! Junior has just enough education to articulatly expound upon his ignorance.
Why, thank you. It was a tad absurd. I think this whole topic is absurd. Illegal immigration is just that- illegal. How it can be defended or rationalized is beyond me. Why these people can't legally immigrate or improve Mexico is beyond me. Speaking of absurd, the other night on the news here in Dallas there was a story about all the students protesting. None of the students knew what they were prostesting for. It was ridiculous at best. They are scheduling a protest next week and Hispanic leaders are urging students to actually learn what the issues really are before they go to protest. It seems, in this area at least, Mexicos' biggest export is ignorance.
you are here legally maybe?
You got my vote!
'nuff said
Nobody ever said Mexicos greatest export was intelligence!
If your fiancee is legal then she is an AMERICAN. What exactly were you rallying FOR? Or were you one of the majority of the rallyers who had NO CLUE? Are you a proponent of illegal immigration? And YES, when you choose to make this country your home because it is a much better choice than the hole you come from, you should get on board, assimilate, and become american in every way. What is she so proud of her country for? Wasn't good enough for her to stay............
Looks like your 3 hours spent sitting at the computer could be better used learning how to SPELL! And I see by your illustrious post that you are one of the group who has NO CLUE. Do you support ILLEGAL immigration? If so, you need to look up the word parasite, then go take a look in the mirror. Immigration is fine, it's the Americn way, but illegal immigration is, well, ILLEGAL! Do you have a broad disregard for ALL our laws, or just for the self-serving ones you think it's OK to break? You are defending a retarded point that, by defination, can't logically be defended. And all those jobs you think no American could do, somehow got done before Pedro and Maria hopped the fence. You're trying to rationalize ILLEGAL behavior, and that kind of begs the question; Who'se really the loser? (that does happen to be the correct spelling of "loser"if you wanna write that one down)
It would really be quite simple to secure our border if someone had enough sack to implement a plan that would curb illegal immigration in short order. You could merely position snipers at 2 mile intervals with Barret 50-cal. rifles and a case or two of ammo. Inform Pedro and Maria that playtime is over and our borders are not to be breached ( alive at least) and publicise the first few examples. The influx would be over in 1 week tops! Many other countries use this method and don't have this problem.
Well Mr. Democrat, Let's hear your WORKABLE, liberal plan.
This is another example of your less-than-educated drivel. I do not support illegal aliens in this country. Do you? You seem to have a chip on your shoulder(tortilla I presume) about something.
It seems you are hung up on race, and calling people racists, more than addressing the issue of ILLEGAL immigration. That's what people do when they are not comfortable in their own skin. Are you racially challenged in some way? I personally vote NO on illegals remaining in our country and I think Our borders should be protected by machine-gunners. That would fix the problem real quick. Another problem is the Mexicans entering illegally aren't assimilating with us, they are merely trying to extend Mexico. And in case you haven't noticed, it's not the rocket-scientist types that are making the swim, it's the feeble poor that show up and squeeze off 12 kids. America has it's own problems and doesn't need Mexicos too!
Yeah, the great part is when they are driving and get into an accident and have no insurance. Or when they want to squeeze out those 12 kids and show up at the county hospital with no inurance.
Why don't you go live in Mexico if you are so enamored with the country???
Dude, illegal is illegal. Charlie Manson is probably an interesting guy these days, should it matter that he did something illegal in the 60s? So thank you very much for serving.
Or just teach them how to pick strawberries.
Someone has a chip on their sombrero.
Cute enough to get a date with your mom though!
Nothing like a 19 year old liberal who cant comprehend the news. And if you aren't an AMERICAN flag waver, why don't you go live in the country of the flag you choose to wave.(right after you mow my lawn).
These workers will be DOCUMENTED and won't be our guest SPONGES.
I am not a fan of ILLEGAL ALIENS of ANY color, race or creed. If you live in this country as a citizen you are an AMERICAN. If you consider yourself a Mexican, why not go live in Mexico. I have German ancesters. I don't go aroung referring to myself as German. I,m AMERICAN! NOT German-American, American-German or any such else nonsense, AMERICAN! Get with the program of our country if you choose to live in it or else go to wherever it is you think you belong.
I don't know what color you are but you have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that you are 19 years old! Somehow you have become an expert in the political arena and yet you're not old enough to drink a beer! Got the tiger by the tail, don't ya..........
How's that for a beat-down?! Junior has just enough education to articulatly expound upon his ignorance.
Why, thank you. It was a tad absurd. I think this whole topic is absurd. Illegal immigration is just that- illegal. How it can be defended or rationalized is beyond me. Why these people can't legally immigrate or improve Mexico is beyond me. Speaking of absurd, the other night on the news here in Dallas there was a story about all the students protesting. None of the students knew what they were prostesting for. It was ridiculous at best. They are scheduling a protest next week and Hispanic leaders are urging students to actually learn what the issues really are before they go to protest. It seems, in this area at least, Mexicos' biggest export is ignorance.
you are here legally maybe?
You got my vote!
'nuff said
Nobody ever said Mexicos greatest export was intelligence!
If your fiancee is legal then she is an AMERICAN. What exactly were you rallying FOR? Or were you one of the majority of the rallyers who had NO CLUE? Are you a proponent of illegal immigration? And YES, when you choose to make this country your home because it is a much better choice than the hole you come from, you should get on board, assimilate, and become american in every way. What is she so proud of her country for? Wasn't good enough for her to stay............
Looks like your 3 hours spent sitting at the computer could be better used learning how to SPELL! And I see by your illustrious post that you are one of the group who has NO CLUE. Do you support ILLEGAL immigration? If so, you need to look up the word parasite, then go take a look in the mirror. Immigration is fine, it's the Americn way, but illegal immigration is, well, ILLEGAL! Do you have a broad disregard for ALL our laws, or just for the self-serving ones you think it's OK to break? You are defending a retarded point that, by defination, can't logically be defended. And all those jobs you think no American could do, somehow got done before Pedro and Maria hopped the fence. You're trying to rationalize ILLEGAL behavior, and that kind of begs the question; Who'se really the loser? (that does happen to be the correct spelling of "loser"if you wanna write that one down)
It would really be quite simple to secure our border if someone had enough sack to implement a plan that would curb illegal immigration in short order. You could merely position snipers at 2 mile intervals with Barret 50-cal. rifles and a case or two of ammo. Inform Pedro and Maria that playtime is over and our borders are not to be breached ( alive at least) and publicise the first few examples. The influx would be over in 1 week tops! Many other countries use this method and don't have this problem.
Well Mr. Democrat, Let's hear your WORKABLE, liberal plan.
This is another example of your less-than-educated drivel. I do not support illegal aliens in this country. Do you? You seem to have a chip on your shoulder(tortilla I presume) about something.
It seems you are hung up on race, and calling people racists, more than addressing the issue of ILLEGAL immigration. That's what people do when they are not comfortable in their own skin. Are you racially challenged in some way? I personally vote NO on illegals remaining in our country and I think Our borders should be protected by machine-gunners. That would fix the problem real quick. Another problem is the Mexicans entering illegally aren't assimilating with us, they are merely trying to extend Mexico. And in case you haven't noticed, it's not the rocket-scientist types that are making the swim, it's the feeble poor that show up and squeeze off 12 kids. America has it's own problems and doesn't need Mexicos too!
Yeah, the great part is when they are driving and get into an accident and have no insurance. Or when they want to squeeze out those 12 kids and show up at the county hospital with no inurance.
Why don't you go live in Mexico if you are so enamored with the country???
Dude, illegal is illegal. Charlie Manson is probably an interesting guy these days, should it matter that he did something illegal in the 60s? So thank you very much for serving.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,570
From: University Place, WA
None of this is new.
________________
There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all.
This is just as true of the man who puts “native” before the hyphen as of the man who puts German or Irish or English or French before the hyphen. Americanism is a matter of the spirit and of the soul. Our allegiance must be purely to the United States. We must unsparingly condemn any man who holds any other allegiance.
But if he is heartily and singly loyal to this Republic, then no matter where he was born, he is just as good an American as any one else.
The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans, or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality than with the other citizens of the American Republic.
The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans; and there ought to be no room for them in this country. The man who calls himself an American citizen and who yet shows by his actions that he is primarily the citizen of a foreign land, plays a thoroughly mischievous part in the life of our body politic. He has no place here; and the sooner he returns to the land to which he feels his real heart-allegiance, the better it will be for every good American.
Theodore Roosevelt -- 12 October 1915
________________
There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all.
This is just as true of the man who puts “native” before the hyphen as of the man who puts German or Irish or English or French before the hyphen. Americanism is a matter of the spirit and of the soul. Our allegiance must be purely to the United States. We must unsparingly condemn any man who holds any other allegiance.
But if he is heartily and singly loyal to this Republic, then no matter where he was born, he is just as good an American as any one else.
The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans, or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality than with the other citizens of the American Republic.
The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans; and there ought to be no room for them in this country. The man who calls himself an American citizen and who yet shows by his actions that he is primarily the citizen of a foreign land, plays a thoroughly mischievous part in the life of our body politic. He has no place here; and the sooner he returns to the land to which he feels his real heart-allegiance, the better it will be for every good American.
Theodore Roosevelt -- 12 October 1915
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SL Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 429
From: Temecula, CA
R2D2, you are in a losing argument. Majority of replys to your post have been against you. I can understand if its a say....33/40 ratio of those who agree with your points and those who don't. But in your actual case its a 2/40 ratio, does that mean ANYTHING to you? Do you not see that your point are weak? Arguing on the internet is like winning the special olympics, even if you win...your still retarded. Give it up.
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SL Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 985
I'm not trying to win an argument like your implying, I simply wanted to point out my what I believe ~ That all people deserve a chance, and all people have a Right to Freedom.
It's not a retarded game or "specialy olympics" like you make it out to be, its our God given right to be able to speak freely and have our own opinions. Even if Scott17 or you gnar-de-gwar state things I don't agree with, its your right to do so.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"....The American Constitution has set down for all men to see the essentially Christian and American principle that there are certain rights held by every man which no government and no majority, however powerful, can deny.
Conceived in Grecian thought, strengthened by Christian morality, and stamped indelibly into American political philosophy, the right of the individual against the State is the keystone of our Constitution. Each man is free.
He is free in thought.
He is free in expression.
He is free in worship.
To us, who have been reared in the American tradition, these rights have become part of our very being. They have become so much a part of our being that most of us are prone to feel that they are rights universally recognized and universally exercised. But the sad fact is that this is not true. They were dearly won for us only a few short centuries ago and they were dearly preserved for us in the days just past. And there are large sections of the world today where these rights are denied as a matter of philosophy and as a matter of government.
We cannot assume that the struggle is ended. It is never-ending.
Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty. It was the price yesterday. It is the price today, and it will ever be the price...."
John Fitzgerald Kennedy ~ Independence Day oration, Boston, Massachusetts, July 4, 1946
It's not a retarded game or "specialy olympics" like you make it out to be, its our God given right to be able to speak freely and have our own opinions. Even if Scott17 or you gnar-de-gwar state things I don't agree with, its your right to do so.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"....The American Constitution has set down for all men to see the essentially Christian and American principle that there are certain rights held by every man which no government and no majority, however powerful, can deny.
Conceived in Grecian thought, strengthened by Christian morality, and stamped indelibly into American political philosophy, the right of the individual against the State is the keystone of our Constitution. Each man is free.
He is free in thought.
He is free in expression.
He is free in worship.
To us, who have been reared in the American tradition, these rights have become part of our very being. They have become so much a part of our being that most of us are prone to feel that they are rights universally recognized and universally exercised. But the sad fact is that this is not true. They were dearly won for us only a few short centuries ago and they were dearly preserved for us in the days just past. And there are large sections of the world today where these rights are denied as a matter of philosophy and as a matter of government.
We cannot assume that the struggle is ended. It is never-ending.
Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty. It was the price yesterday. It is the price today, and it will ever be the price...."
John Fitzgerald Kennedy ~ Independence Day oration, Boston, Massachusetts, July 4, 1946
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StyleWagons
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I think Roosevelt summed it up best. And R2D2, if you find my posts racist, it only further cements my opinion of your ignorance. I truly don't think you get it. Or ever will get it.....I welcome any immigrant to this country if they are truly interested in becoming an AMERICAN. If their country is so important to them that they refuse to assimilate, I would encourage them to stay there. Simple as that.....
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I'm not denying you of your right to an opinion. i'm just saying that you are fighting so hard for people to agree with your opinion it seems. Anyway, this is straying off the post subject so back to it. All of us here whether you see it or not, and unfortunetly it some cases you are FAR from seeing that, agree that everyone has a right to be here, EVERYONE. Here's the thing though. I think it bullsh*t with all those rallies and what not. It was there's (CA) first? Sorry, history says that the Indians were here first, then the Spanish took over and then later down the road GAVE it to Mexico, and then the English took it away from them. THEN they come here illegally and DEMAND to benefits of that of a US citizen and the Constitution? Hell, these people Mexican or not (but mostly Mexican) should be grateful that they are entitled to what they are entitled to!!! Constitiution wise they aren't even covered....the consititution covers only US citizens or any otehr legal form of citizenship. So they are lucky that we even give them a right to a fair trial, freedom of speech, a right to protest. Then in thier rallies they go around Mexican flags?? Like alot of us have said, if they are so proud of were they come from then go back there. It's funny how they wave that green,red, and white flag all proud of it but they don't like it that if they are caught being illegal they get sent back. Oh and then we accomodate THEM?? We have spanish translations for EVERYTHING!! We make sure that at LEAST one person in the work place speaks spanish?? What about the rest of the immigrants? Where are their translations? Where the guy at the grocyer store that speaks Italian? Or Farce? Last I...no WE...checked this is America, the official language is ENGLISH. If they come here illegally, hell...LEGALLY, they should learn the language., and not expect everyone else to accommodate them!! Don't EVEN get me started on that ridicioulos proposal to make a SPANISH version of the anthem...but the main point is, is that are borders are the saddest excuse for borders and need to be reinforced. Be it Berlin Wall II or Militray action...and most importantly illegals considered felons. In short and simple terms Illegal is Illegal.
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gnar-de-gwar, that bit about the Mexican flags i already covered in my very first post... why did they fly a [insert flag here] flag trying to gain US citizenship???
Moving along....
Scott17, First of all, if you honestly think u haven't been racist in any sense of the word, it's you who're the ignorant one. Telling people to "go back to where they came" or "your country doesn't export intelligence" or "telling people to go do their stereotypical jobs" is in EVERY sense of the word RACIST.
Fact is, I highly doubt you'd "welcome any immigrant that's truly interested in becoming AMERICAN". Not everyones definition of "AMERICAN" is what you picture. Assuming its the typical Bob & Mary that got hitched and had 2.5 kids...
Being AMERICAN is unique in its own definition, because We Are Free.
The Great thing is, here in the culturally diverse states (basically the Blue states) we actually coexist with people of different cultures, religions, and people who speak different languages... Its their right to speak what ever language they choose. So who are you to say they can't speak the language they choose. English itself was technically a foreign language.
I agree to a degree that to function within the normal parameters of American society one should be able to communicate in english. However, you can't force someone to "only" speak one language and not utilize any others. America is the Land of the Free which also applies to speech.
It's a great thing to understand and respect the place of your ancestors, not to do so would be disrespectful in my opinion. My uncle is of German decent.... learned to be fluent in german and french right here in America so he could use it when he goes visit. Now, when he's here in the U.S. why shouldn't he be allowed to speak it if he chooses?
The right is his to choose, same goes for anyone else who chooses to speak in any language they wish because thats our American Freedom to do so.
Moving along....
Scott17, First of all, if you honestly think u haven't been racist in any sense of the word, it's you who're the ignorant one. Telling people to "go back to where they came" or "your country doesn't export intelligence" or "telling people to go do their stereotypical jobs" is in EVERY sense of the word RACIST.
Fact is, I highly doubt you'd "welcome any immigrant that's truly interested in becoming AMERICAN". Not everyones definition of "AMERICAN" is what you picture. Assuming its the typical Bob & Mary that got hitched and had 2.5 kids...
Being AMERICAN is unique in its own definition, because We Are Free.
The Great thing is, here in the culturally diverse states (basically the Blue states) we actually coexist with people of different cultures, religions, and people who speak different languages... Its their right to speak what ever language they choose. So who are you to say they can't speak the language they choose. English itself was technically a foreign language.
I agree to a degree that to function within the normal parameters of American society one should be able to communicate in english. However, you can't force someone to "only" speak one language and not utilize any others. America is the Land of the Free which also applies to speech.
It's a great thing to understand and respect the place of your ancestors, not to do so would be disrespectful in my opinion. My uncle is of German decent.... learned to be fluent in german and french right here in America so he could use it when he goes visit. Now, when he's here in the U.S. why shouldn't he be allowed to speak it if he chooses?
The right is his to choose, same goes for anyone else who chooses to speak in any language they wish because thats our American Freedom to do so.
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Scott17, First of all, if you honestly think u haven't been racist in any sense of the word, it's you who're the ignorant one. Telling people to "go back to where they came" or "your country doesn't export intelligence" or "telling people to go do their stereotypical jobs" is in EVERY sense of the word RACIST.
Saying those things to all illegal aliens most likely means also saying it to people of the same race as whatever the speaker is. That is not being racist, because what is being said is not based on race, but on nationality. I will stand up and say it just as strongly to any European, Asian, African, Australian, South American person of any color size, or shape. It doesn't bother me that any illegal alien is of any particular race, but that they are here illegally. I assume that Scott has similar thoughts. That is not racist. *
The Great thing is, here in the culturally diverse states (basically the Blue states) we actually coexist with people of different cultures, religions, and people who speak different languages & its accepted. Its their right to speak what ever language they choose. So who are you to say they can't speak the language they choose.
Some of those with ultra liberal bents will disagree with that, but it is one of the foundations of the United States - an important part of what allows and has allowed this country to be as good as it can be.
I do agree that it 'their' right to speak whatever language they choose in their own homes, to teach their children their languiage, culture, traditions, and society, but not in place of those of their new home - in addition to. However, if they choose not to learn English - the language of the country they chose to come to - and the 280,000,000 English speakers here don't understand them, don't blame the English speakers. That would be as non-sensical as one of us going to, for example, China, and complaining that their billions don't speak English.
In a much earlier post I already expounded on how much we actually handicap immigrant children by teaching them in a foreign language (the one they came from) instead of doing our best to teach them English so they can function in this country and get ahead.
When a child who went to school and was taught in 'another language' instead of English, is an adult, they will find damned few colleges and universities here that teach in other than English, and even fewer top level jobs for those without a full command of English.
By teaching those children in that 'other' language, we have simply guaranteed our supply of bottom end cheap labor for another generation. We shouldn't do that no matter HOW much the bleeding heart liberals insist that it is 'best' for them.
Personally I suspect I've seen and lived with more cultural diversity than many others here. I've lived in other countries, learned their languages, meshed with their cultures. Even when just visiting I've done my best to learn enough of the other country's language to get along should no one around me speak English. After all, it it THEIR country, not mine.
I do not recall ANYONE here saying that speaking ANY foreign language should be forbidden - that is a straw man argument, and you should know it, R2.
What HAS been said repeatedly is if one chooses to live in the US, one should learn American English and also learn to live within this new culture they have voluntarily chosen to live in. To do otherwise is to refuse to be an American. One becomes an American by embracing who and what we are, by jumping into the melting pot and blending. It makes us all richer.
I'm not a hyphenated American. I can recognize and respect my family's history without over-identifying myself with whatever foreign venue they came from. I carry an American flag, I pledge allegiance to THIS country's flag and constitution, and no other.
If one is a person who made a conscious choice to live in the United States, then one should do their best to become one of us - to be assimilated. If not, one is just 'using' the United States rather than being a part of it.
Too much twaddle in this thread.
* BTW, what "race" is Hispanic? I've seen Hispanic people of many, many quite different races - everything from old world Spaniards to new world natives, to some of the blackest of my friends from the Carribean. "Hispanic" refers to language use, not race. It is a ridiculous as saying ssomeone is of the "American" race. Does not compute.
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Originally Posted by Tomas
Scott17, First of all, if you honestly think u haven't been racist in any sense of the word, it's you who're the ignorant one. Telling people to "go back to where they came" or "your country doesn't export intelligence" or "telling people to go do their stereotypical jobs" is in EVERY sense of the word RACIST.
Saying those things to all illegal aliens most likely means also saying it to people of the same race as whatever the speaker is. That is not being racist, because what is being said is not based on race, but on nationality. I will stand up and say it just as strongly to any European, Asian, African, Australian, South American person of any color size, or shape. It doesn't bother me that any illegal alien is of any particular race, but that they are here illegally. I assume that Scott has similar thoughts. That is not racist.
Referring to ur staw statement, I believe his intent WAS the idea of languages other than english to be forbidden all together because it didn't fit into his "concept" of "american". Any logical human being can understand the concept of languages in a multicultural environment.
You might not agree with me here, however from the attacks he's made on people simply respecting their origins you could see his intent. Specifically referring to his statements and I quote: "You could merely position snipers at 2 mile intervals with Barret 50-cal. rifles and a case or two of ammo. Inform Pedro and Maria that playtime is over and our borders are not to be breached ( alive at least) and publicise the first few examples."
Surely you must see it, if YOU don't i don't know what to say to you............. if your one of those who agrees on that type of racist behavior than you'd be the same as him. BTW* I don't know where this hispanic thing came from, however American in my opinion is a culture, a way of life...In essence a people.
